See, that's exactly what Lexus meant when they said they'd be like BMW.... Refresh cycles early and often to keep the models fresh and in demand. Look at the 06 GS twins. By next year (spring 06) an all new variant GS450h joins the family. This car will spot the highest HP yet in a Lexus sedan, around 320-ishHP. And by the spring 2007, the GS350 arrives, followed by GS460 around the launch of the LS460 in the Fall of 06, wearing the crown of the highest HP Lexus sedans (350HP). That will also be short-lived until a year later when the LS600h arrives (MY2008) with 450HP output. And the beat goes on.... Next comes the V10-powered LF-A with 500HP....
The IS starts at 250/350, extends to the hi-po (2006 Fall), and then the coupe by 2007 (as a MY2008). Expect to see the IS300 by the time Lexus drops the GS300 model. The 3L V6 motors then migrate to the Camry and Solara, and maybe eventually trickle down to the Scion tC.
A 3.0L, 245hp V6 seems like a pretty big jump for a car with a 2.4L 160hp 4, especially if they want to keep it affordable. I think the 2.5L is a more likely option, it has to go somewhere.
I think oac meant the 3.0L 245bhp V6 currently in the GS300 would replace the current 3.0L/3.3L V6 motors in the Camry and Solara and then they may install the 3.5L V6 in the SE version of the Camry/Solara. I still see a 4-cylinder as a base engine in the Camry line. The 2.5L V6 will probably never go into the Camry line since the current 3.0L V6 puts out 210bhp, it's obvious the next Camry will get a power boost.
In Canada, the 3L has 210 hp/the 3.3L 225 hp, exactly the same as the ES330. So, yes, Toyota has allowed the Camry to match the ES 330's engine. I'm assuming this 3L engine is new for 2005? Never seen it before. What other cars is it in? Is this the same engine that I predict will be in the IS 300? The one in the GS?
Interesting. I didnt know that about the canadian versions. The 3.0L is all new, and its currently only in the GS300. As Toyota phases out the old 3.0\3.3L, it will work its way into more cars, along with the new 3.5L version.
There is a 3 liter....currently used in the new GS300 models...that is new for 2005. This 3L will most likely make it to the 2007 Camry....but as of right now its not used in any other models. The current 3L....210hp...was used in the last gen Sienna and the Highlander...until last year when both models upgraded to the 3.3. Also used right now as the SE engine, in the Camry. The new IS is getting a 2.5 and 3.5 v6. The GS300 will, soon drop the 3L for the 3.5. The only reason they used this new 3L is becuase the 3.5 was not ready. Same with the new 4.6L, which is suppose to replace the aging 4.3.
Which begs the question ? Where else would the 2.5L V6 motor in the base IS250 be shared besides the IS model ? The Camry/Solara/Avalon already have motors with higher output than the 2.5L's 204HP, so where else would this engine fit ? Maybe in the base Camry LE (MY2007) ? And maybe as an optional engine for the tC (MY2007) ?
You got it wrong. The current 3.0L V6 in the Camry produces 210bhp and the 3.3L V6 in the Camry SE produces the same power as the 3.3L V6 in the ES330, which is 225bhp.
But there does seem to be some confusion. Currently, due to new SAE measurement standards, the horsepower numbers have been revised down. Even the 2.4L 4-cylinder has been revised down from 160bhp to 154bhp. I'm guessing for 2006, the ES330's motor will also be revised down to 210bhp. If you look at Toyota's website, they now have the 2006 model year Camry specs listed, while the Lexus site is still running for 2005 model year. I believe the LS430 is also supposed to be revised down to 278bhp for 2006.
The current 3.0L V6 does not date back to 1992. The 1992 Camry/ES300 has a 3.0L V6 version of the 2.5L V6 in the Camry/ES250. These engines were iron block/aluminum head motors. For the 1994 model year, both the ES300 and Camry got totally redesigned 3.0L V6 all-aluminum motors.
"Which begs the question ? Where else would the 2.5L V6 motor in the base IS250 be shared besides the IS model ?"
I know, this is another baffling question. So as of right now, everyone is basically confused about where the new 3.0L V6 will go after the GS300 and where the 2.5L V6 will go besides the IS250!!!
Ah ok. I pulled the numbers from Toyota's website, and in the back of my mind I was thinking, wait, I know the Camry has more power than this. Damn SAE. Now were going to need some sort of 2006 to 2005 horsepower converter to know what the rated power of new engines would be in 2005 spec. What was the point of this "adjustment"?
The 3.5L V6 in the Avalon and the 3.5L V6 in the IS350 which will be used in the GS350 are not the same animal. Actually, in some markets the GS350 is already being sold.
Yes, there's a lot of engine sharing going on, but Lexus will try to differentiate its Lexus mills from the plain Toyota ones. I think for now the most obvious difference will be direct injection technology - Lexus cars get it, Toyota ones don't - even if the rest of the engine might be the same.
You guys think the 2.5 used in a Lexus entry-lux car is also going to be used in toyota's bargain basement line up too?
That may be a consideration in hp obsessed US, but in Canada the IS250 may sell quite well even with an engine that can be considered tepid.
Up in Canada the e46 BMW320i was sold in great volumes for many years . The tepid engine's hp was merely 168 and the fuel economy was worse than the larger 2.5l engine(that's what I call bad engineering). Sometimes price takes a priority over engine specs.
1. Toyota/Lexus platform sharing 2. Toyota Camry 3. Lexus ES or GS models 4. Scion vehicles 5. Infiniti G35
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well with the options i choose for the 330i it comes out about $40k with ED. IS350 is expected to start around $35k. Since it already come standard with leather and auto transmission, i would just get the ML sound system or maybe the NAV system. So plus taxes and license should make it come out around $40k. Im just asking - if they both have the same OTD price, which one would ANY of you get? I need some opinions cus i need to buy a new car soon. With ED it takes a while. So maybe i should wait for the IS350 to come out first. But then if i dont like the IS when it comes out, it would take me another 1.5months to do ED for the 330i. Just wanted to know a few suggestions or opinions before i make the final decision. thanks
"which one would you guys get - 06 330i or IS350??? considering the OTD price is pretty much the same with options."
1) we don't know what the price of the IS250 or IS350 is going to be.
2) I wouldn't even buy a 330i. It's overpriced as is. The 325i would be the ticket.
3) If the IS350 were priced the same as a 330i, I wouldn't buy it. I expect Lexus to be a better value, therefore it should undercut the BMW by a few grand. If the IS350 is basically the same price as a 330i, I would run to a Acura or Infiniti dealer and get a TL or G35.
Agree with saigonboi21. If a similarly equipped IS350 is more than $37K or a similarly equipped IS250 is more than $32K, then either the TL or G35 is a much better value.
I live in Chicago and I am not too excited about the IS250 AWD (especially with the protruding area behind the drivers right foot). What is everyones thought on the viability of the IS350 for winter driving? Will VDIM help?
Lexus says the IS exists as the sportiest of its sedans. Unlike its European rivals, its “entry” sport sedan gets demonstrably more power than its larger, costlier stablemates. Lexus expects about 20% of buyers to opt for the 3.5L model. But after test-drives here, that expectation may be too low, as the 2.5L DOHC V-6 in the IS 250 models churns out just 204 hp.
Although the 2.5L uses only direct injection to produce adequate punch – particularly if one liberally exercises the paddle shifters – 102 hp between the two engines will be hard for today's horsepower-hungry consumers to ignore.
Not only is it unlikely 80% of buyers will be satisfied with the 2.5L's 204-hp output, the base engine actually represents a power regression: The outgoing IS' 3L DOHC inline 6-cyl. makes 215 hp.
Lexus may be expecting a disproportionate take rate for the IS 250 because it offers AWD, a second for the brand (the '06 GS was the first Lexus car to offer AWD).
Gotta agree. They go on to say the IS may steal G35 buyers but that seems unlikely given only the IS350 (9k units available) is competition for the G35.
I decided for myself what to do. But in final comparison, we wanted performance like the BMW 330i M edition and the Mercedes-Benz AMG C32.
Well they failed there according to all reviews. Why do manus make these silly claims? I remember infiniti claiming they benchmarked the A4 for the interior of the G35. Uh, did you benchmark and then reduce by a factor of 50% kids?
The 330i M is a bit of a stretch, but the C32 AMG seems ok. Its extremely fast, but it doesnt exactly threaten the M3 in terms of handling.
I think it would be seen as kind of pathetic if Infiniti just copied and pasted the A4 interior. See: Benz S-class. Considering the difference in cost between the Audi and Infiniti, I think they did ok. I'm sure they could make it fancier for an additional 10 grand.
Well thats nice that Wards says that, but Lexus has had really surprising success, at least in my region, with the GS300 AWD, which isnt exactly a powerhouse. Might say something about the where Lexus buyers place their value.
Dont get me wrong, I do think 20% as 3.5L models is low, I'm just saying... stranger things have happened.
There were several advantages to a V6. An inline-six is longer, so that moves the center of gravity point farther forward in the car, which affects handling. The inline-six also is heavier than the new V-6, and the V6 fits in a more compact space.
The above quote is from the link on post # 3397 Autoweek
Yes V6 advantages over i6 is that they are smaller and lighter. But he forgot to mention the advantage of inline-6s:
1) More power can be generated from I6s vs. V6s because they are better balanced engines.
2) I6s can rev higher than V6s meaning more hp.
3) I6s are more durable than V6s
4) As previously posted by Shipo -- the I6 will always be smoother and more refined feeling than an otherwise similar V6.
BMW's advantage is that it will soon be the only sport sedan that combines a i6 with rwd.
Right, but a modern, aluminum V6 with VVT on both intake and exhaust valves and direct injection is better than an old and obsolete inline
The statement above from Lexusguy is correct, BUT such a V6 withVVT and exhaust valves is likely not to be better than a new and modern i6.
Still, the IS350 has the most powerful 6 in its class, so I dont think Lexus is too woried over what they are losing from giving up on an inline. I'm sure BMW could easily beat the 3.5L V6s from Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, and M-B if they made a 3.5L Inline 6, but they havent yet.
It is very likely that the bean counters had the most say here. It's more expensive to make an I6 and can't be whored out into other platforms as easily as a V6.
I don't get the center of gravity argument - BMW seems to not have problems getting 50/50 weight distribution and great handling with the I6 - you just have to shove the engine further back into the chassis.
1st Ting: Re: Wardsauto/blueguy/80% of buyers not wanting the 250 due to lack of power.
Ward's must've been reading my posts from last month! I nailed it again! Come up with your own stuff, guys! Or, at least, credit me properly! Your welcome!
The 350 will be hard to come buy, and certainly MSRP for the entire first year.
My #2: I6 vs. V6
Toyota/Lexus seems to have no problem making the smoothest V6 engines in the industry. Any design advantages in the I6 are minor at this point, and are dually cancelled out by cost disadvatages.
NOW, if Toyota would build the SUPRA, then you can make the argument, with costs better amortized through better utilization. At this point, I agree with 'Yota's decision, on paper. But I say build the Supra instead of another SUV.
If I6 were head and shoulders better than V6, they'd be used a lot more by makers. Buyers don't care how the cylinders are aligned, they just don't want cost-cutting to cost them power (Chevy Colorado). Which makes the 2.5 in the IS all the more puzzling.
Taking a step back in diplacement and power, while raising prices is not a sound strategy. I hope the 250 bombs, so Lexus will be FORCED to read the target market better. $30k sport sedan buyers don't want less power for more features.
Actually... assuming the same wheelbase and exterior body dimensions, the I-6 will mean better front/rear balance, not worse... though negatively impacting interior room ..
To get the most interior room, the engine is pushed forward as much as possible.. With a V-6, all of the engines weight is only three cylinders deep.. With the I-6, half of the engine will be farther to the rear.. helping weight distribution..
Of course, you could always push the V-6 farther back... but, usually they don't do this for packaging reasons (which is the main reason to use the V-6 in the first place).
I hope the 250 bombs, so Lexus will be FORCED to read the target market better. $30k sport sedan buyers don't want less power for more features.
I really do not understand this obsession with HP... I am a $30K sport sedan buyer - and you do not speak for me.
I would take more features for less HP - the IS250 will have no problem with merging into freeway traffic, etc. With gas prices only going to continue going up, motoring around with excessive HP/lower MPG just to have bragging rights? - silly - maybe those folks should just go buy an SRT (and give up the luxury features, world-class build quality and visit the gas station much more often). Guess some folks like to strut around saying "Hemi, Hemi"
Lest we forget, there are a lot of happy 4 cylinder Camry owners driving around... And, there is still the IS350 for those that feel the need for more HP.
And, I would take your bet that the IS250 will not bomb.
For those people thinking IS250 it's all about features and being seen in a lexus...it's not about the car's ability.
Sayz who ? The IS250/6MT will be a fun to drive car, maybe as much fun as the IS350/6A slush box, except for the raw power of the latter. Methinks all the new IS cars will do very well in the market. Certainly much better than the IS300 they replaces.
Like DrFill said, which I agree, the IS350 will be a hard to find car. If you want one, get on the waiting list right now otherwise you may have a long wait to buy one.
For those people thinking IS250 it's all about features and being seen in a lexus...it's not about the car's ability.
Wrong.
I think the IS250 will have plenty of ability...for a sporty, daily driver. If I lived on a dry lakebed maybe I would worry about 0-60 and top end.
Being seen in a Lexus? I was seen in a Lexus once - test driving the GS. If I was driven by image, I would buy a Bimmer (like your overpriced 330).
Maybe the IS aims to be an all-around sporty/lux sedan - for those wanting sport+ value, reliability, features, good mpg, etc. I am not hot for maximum HP (that I will never use) or bitchin about not having a stick shift (I have an RX-8 for twisty roads).
I do not think many of the (myopic) comments on this board are sincerely meant as geniune remarks about the IS - just Infiniti and Bimmer fans taking shots - HP and Stick - as has been heard on this board since (at least) March.
I keep on reading about the mpg advantage of the IS250. What is the mpg, is the official EPA figure out yet? And if not how can you assume it will be significantly more fuel efficient?
The e46 BMW320i's 2.2l engine had worse fuel efficincy than the e46 BMW330i's 3.0 litre engine! I am sure the IS250 will have better mileage, but will it be better enough to boast about?
Personally I would rather drive a less powerful manual IS250 than a automatic IS350. In fact I hope that the manual IS250 becomes a HIT and the automatic IS350 flops. Then Lexus will be forced to introduce a manual IS350. If the the IS350 is a success, then you can say Sayonara to a manual IS350.
Based on Lexus estimates that 5% of IS250s will have manual transmissions. That to me is a very depressing statistic. As depressing as a picture I saw today of a Ferrari interior with a slush box :mad:
That engineer fellow by the name of Mr. Fukusato really goes on my nerves :mad:
Everything he says in that interview in Autoweek is bogus! And it is not only his V6 claims that are bogus!
On the mechanical side, the ride comfort and handling performance were not up to Lexus standards. Neither was the body control and stability
Was Mr. Fukusato San still in grade school during 2001 when the IS300 was gaining praises everywhere about handling performance, especially when compared to the 3 series? New emphasis on ride comfort, body control and stability--- Mr. Fukusato why are you not engineering the ES instead!!!
If this guy is chief engineer of the IS, I think every enthusiast should feel enough chill up his spine by now!
The IS250 offers nothing special from what I've seen and read thus far. In fact reviews tend to gloss over it and/or make comments about it not having the gumption they'd expect. 206 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque...wow, that doesn't exactly compare well to anything in the class.
I don't see any sport in the Is250. Maybe I'll drive an IS250 for giggles. Though I can't imagine spending 30k+ on a car that has no real power.
Again to each his own.
BTW, my "overpriced" bimmer will cost me 17k over 3 years. Not exactly a money pit, imho.
handling performance were not up to Lexus standards.
By "Lexus standards", maybe he meant that the handling feel was not soft enough. Totally serious. Quite a few people like the light, boosted handling feel that is essentially a trademark of Lexus vehicles.
The IS300 had great handling feel. In fact, that was pretty much the car's primary positive attribute.
Comments
The Euro brands better try harder to catch up...MB & BMW quality control engineers should pay attention.
The IS350 will do fine.....I can't wait to dump my Benz! :lemon:
"The IS350 will do fine.....I can't wait to dump my Benz"
Why dont you dump your shoddy Benz, but dont involve BMW with your own personal car problems.
Lexus the best selling luxury brand in America?
Realtiy: Lexus cars sales are number four and have been declining these past few years.
See, that's exactly what Lexus meant when they said they'd be like BMW.... Refresh cycles early and often to keep the models fresh and in demand. Look at the 06 GS twins. By next year (spring 06) an all new variant GS450h joins the family. This car will spot the highest HP yet in a Lexus sedan, around 320-ishHP. And by the spring 2007, the GS350 arrives, followed by GS460 around the launch of the LS460 in the Fall of 06, wearing the crown of the highest HP Lexus sedans (350HP). That will also be short-lived until a year later when the LS600h arrives (MY2008) with 450HP output. And the beat goes on.... Next comes the V10-powered LF-A with 500HP....
The IS starts at 250/350, extends to the hi-po (2006 Fall), and then the coupe by 2007 (as a MY2008). Expect to see the IS300 by the time Lexus drops the GS300 model. The 3L V6 motors then migrate to the Camry and Solara, and maybe eventually trickle down to the Scion tC.
The ES should definitely become ES350. Its hard to say about the Camry. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
You got it wrong. The current 3.0L V6 in the Camry produces 210bhp and the 3.3L V6 in the Camry SE produces the same power as the 3.3L V6 in the ES330, which is 225bhp.
But there does seem to be some confusion. Currently, due to new SAE measurement standards, the horsepower numbers have been revised down. Even the 2.4L 4-cylinder has been revised down from 160bhp to 154bhp. I'm guessing for 2006, the ES330's motor will also be revised down to 210bhp. If you look at Toyota's website, they now have the 2006 model year Camry specs listed, while the Lexus site is still running for 2005 model year. I believe the LS430 is also supposed to be revised down to 278bhp for 2006.
The current 3.0L V6 does not date back to 1992. The 1992 Camry/ES300 has a 3.0L V6 version of the 2.5L V6 in the Camry/ES250. These engines were iron block/aluminum head motors. For the 1994 model year, both the ES300 and Camry got totally redesigned 3.0L V6 all-aluminum motors.
I know, this is another baffling question. So as of right now, everyone is basically confused about where the new 3.0L V6 will go after the GS300 and where the 2.5L V6 will go besides the IS250!!!
:P
What a horrible beast that would be...
"Great Chassis"
VDIM creates siliar complaints to GS
Great sales race between 3 and IS
Poor shifter in 250
DrFill
Yes, there's a lot of engine sharing going on, but Lexus will try to differentiate its Lexus mills from the plain Toyota ones. I think for now the most obvious difference will be direct injection technology - Lexus cars get it, Toyota ones don't - even if the rest of the engine might be the same.
That may be a consideration in hp obsessed US, but in Canada the IS250 may sell quite well even with an engine that can be considered tepid.
Up in Canada the e46 BMW320i was sold in great volumes for many years . The tepid engine's hp was merely 168 and the fuel economy was worse than the larger 2.5l engine(that's what I call bad engineering). Sometimes price takes a priority over engine specs.
2. Toyota Camry
3. Lexus ES or GS models
4. Scion vehicles
5. Infiniti G35
If there's nothing to say specifically about the Lexus IS, then feel free to remain silent until there is. Off-topic posts are disappearing, and will continue to do so.
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~alpha
1) we don't know what the price of the IS250 or IS350 is going to be.
2) I wouldn't even buy a 330i. It's overpriced as is. The 325i would be the ticket.
3) If the IS350 were priced the same as a 330i, I wouldn't buy it. I expect Lexus to be a better value, therefore it should undercut the BMW by a few grand. If the IS350 is basically the same price as a 330i, I would run to a Acura or Infiniti dealer and get a TL or G35.
I will be buying an IS 350 and plan on driving it all year!
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_new_lexus_ready/index.htm
Lexus says the IS exists as the sportiest of its sedans. Unlike its European rivals, its “entry” sport sedan gets demonstrably more power than its larger, costlier stablemates. Lexus expects about 20% of buyers to opt for the 3.5L model. But after test-drives here, that expectation may be too low, as the 2.5L DOHC V-6 in the IS 250 models churns out just 204 hp.
Although the 2.5L uses only direct injection to produce adequate punch – particularly if one liberally exercises the paddle shifters – 102 hp between the two engines will be hard for today's horsepower-hungry consumers to ignore.
Not only is it unlikely 80% of buyers will be satisfied with the 2.5L's 204-hp output, the base engine actually represents a power regression: The outgoing IS' 3L DOHC inline 6-cyl. makes 215 hp.
Lexus may be expecting a disproportionate take rate for the IS 250 because it offers AWD, a second for the brand (the '06 GS was the first Lexus car to offer AWD).
Gotta agree. They go on to say the IS may steal G35 buyers but that seems unlikely given only the IS350 (9k units available) is competition for the G35.
Well they failed there according to all reviews. Why do manus make these silly claims? I remember infiniti claiming they benchmarked the A4 for the interior of the G35. Uh, did you benchmark and then reduce by a factor of 50% kids?
I think it would be seen as kind of pathetic if Infiniti just copied and pasted the A4 interior. See: Benz S-class. Considering the difference in cost between the Audi and Infiniti, I think they did ok. I'm sure they could make it fancier for an additional 10 grand.
Dont get me wrong, I do think 20% as 3.5L models is low, I'm just saying... stranger things have happened.
~alpha
The above quote is from the link on post # 3397 Autoweek
Yes V6 advantages over i6 is that they are smaller and lighter. But he forgot to mention the advantage of inline-6s:
1) More power can be generated from I6s vs. V6s because they are better balanced engines.
2) I6s can rev higher than V6s meaning more hp.
3) I6s are more durable than V6s
4) As previously posted by Shipo -- the I6 will always be smoother and more refined feeling than an otherwise similar V6.
BMW's advantage is that it will soon be the only sport sedan that combines a i6 with rwd.
Right, but a modern, aluminum V6 with VVT on both intake and exhaust valves and direct injection is better than an old and obsolete inline
The statement above from Lexusguy is correct, BUT such a V6 withVVT and exhaust valves is likely not to be better than a new and modern i6.
256 HP in 1988... Not bad for back then...
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I don't get the center of gravity argument - BMW seems to not have problems getting 50/50 weight distribution and great handling with the I6 - you just have to shove the engine further back into the chassis.
Ward's must've been reading my posts from last month! I nailed it again! Come up with your own stuff, guys! Or, at least, credit me properly! Your welcome!
The 350 will be hard to come buy, and certainly MSRP for the entire first year.
My #2: I6 vs. V6
Toyota/Lexus seems to have no problem making the smoothest V6 engines in the industry. Any design advantages in the I6 are minor at this point, and are dually cancelled out by cost disadvatages.
NOW, if Toyota would build the SUPRA, then you can make the argument, with costs better amortized through better utilization. At this point, I agree with 'Yota's decision, on paper. But I say build the Supra instead of another SUV.
If I6 were head and shoulders better than V6, they'd be used a lot more by makers. Buyers don't care how the cylinders are aligned, they just don't want cost-cutting to cost them power (Chevy Colorado). Which makes the 2.5 in the IS all the more puzzling.
Taking a step back in diplacement and power, while raising prices is not a sound strategy.
I hope the 250 bombs, so Lexus will be FORCED to read the target market better. $30k sport sedan buyers don't want less power for more features.
DrFill
That is if they have a 2.7 or 2.8 engine in the pipeline.
To get the most interior room, the engine is pushed forward as much as possible.. With a V-6, all of the engines weight is only three cylinders deep.. With the I-6, half of the engine will be farther to the rear.. helping weight distribution..
Of course, you could always push the V-6 farther back... but, usually they don't do this for packaging reasons (which is the main reason to use the V-6 in the first place).
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I really do not understand this obsession with HP... I am a $30K sport sedan buyer - and you do not speak for me.
I would take more features for less HP - the IS250 will have no problem with merging into freeway traffic, etc. With gas prices only going to continue going up, motoring around with excessive HP/lower MPG just to have bragging rights? - silly - maybe those folks should just go buy an SRT (and give up the luxury features, world-class build quality and visit the gas station much more often). Guess some folks like to strut around saying "Hemi, Hemi"
Lest we forget, there are a lot of happy 4 cylinder Camry owners driving around... And, there is still the IS350 for those that feel the need for more HP.
And, I would take your bet that the IS250 will not bomb.
regards,
kyfdx
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For those people thinking IS250 it's all about features and being seen in a lexus...it's not about the car's ability.
Sayz who ? The IS250/6MT will be a fun to drive car, maybe as much fun as the IS350/6A slush box, except for the raw power of the latter. Methinks all the new IS cars will do very well in the market. Certainly much better than the IS300 they replaces.
Like DrFill said, which I agree, the IS350 will be a hard to find car. If you want one, get on the waiting list right now otherwise you may have a long wait to buy one.
Wrong.
I think the IS250 will have plenty of ability...for a sporty, daily driver. If I lived on a dry lakebed maybe I would worry about 0-60 and top end.
Being seen in a Lexus? I was seen in a Lexus once - test driving the GS. If I was driven by image, I would buy a Bimmer (like your overpriced 330).
Maybe the IS aims to be an all-around sporty/lux sedan - for those wanting sport+ value, reliability, features, good mpg, etc. I am not hot for maximum HP (that I will never use) or bitchin about not having a stick shift (I have an RX-8 for twisty roads).
I do not think many of the (myopic) comments on this board are sincerely meant as geniune remarks about the IS - just Infiniti and Bimmer fans taking shots - HP and Stick - as has been heard on this board since (at least) March.
The e46 BMW320i's 2.2l engine had worse fuel efficincy than the e46 BMW330i's 3.0 litre engine! I am sure the IS250 will have better mileage, but will it be better enough to boast about?
Personally I would rather drive a less powerful manual IS250 than a automatic IS350. In fact I hope that the manual IS250 becomes a HIT and the automatic IS350 flops. Then Lexus will be forced to introduce a manual IS350. If the the IS350 is a success, then you can say Sayonara to a manual IS350.
Based on Lexus estimates that 5% of IS250s will have manual transmissions. That to me is a very depressing statistic. As depressing as a picture I saw today of a Ferrari interior with a slush box :mad:
Everything he says in that interview in Autoweek is bogus! And it is not only his V6 claims that are bogus!
On the mechanical side, the ride comfort and handling performance were not up to Lexus standards. Neither was the body control and stability
Was Mr. Fukusato San still in grade school during 2001 when the IS300 was gaining praises everywhere about handling performance, especially when compared to the 3 series? New emphasis on ride comfort, body control and stability--- Mr. Fukusato why are you not engineering the ES instead!!!
If this guy is chief engineer of the IS, I think every enthusiast should feel enough chill up his spine by now!
The IS250 offers nothing special from what I've seen and read thus far. In fact reviews tend to gloss over it and/or make comments about it not having the gumption they'd expect. 206 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque...wow, that doesn't exactly compare well to anything in the class.
I don't see any sport in the Is250. Maybe I'll drive an IS250 for giggles. Though I can't imagine spending 30k+ on a car that has no real power.
Again to each his own.
BTW, my "overpriced" bimmer will cost me 17k over 3 years. Not exactly a money pit, imho.
By "Lexus standards", maybe he meant that the handling feel was not soft enough. Totally serious. Quite a few people like the light, boosted handling feel that is essentially a trademark of Lexus vehicles.
The IS300 had great handling feel. In fact, that was pretty much the car's primary positive attribute.
http://lexus.jp/models/is/spec/price.html
http://lexus.jp/models/gs/spec/price.html
Also, note that the Japanese versions have more hp than their US counterparts.
1 pferdestarke (ps) = 0.9863201 horsepower