By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The Euro brands better try harder to catch up...MB & BMW quality control engineers should pay attention.
The IS350 will do fine.....I can't wait to dump my Benz! :lemon:
"The IS350 will do fine.....I can't wait to dump my Benz"
Why dont you dump your shoddy Benz, but dont involve BMW with your own personal car problems.
Lexus the best selling luxury brand in America?
Realtiy: Lexus cars sales are number four and have been declining these past few years.
See, that's exactly what Lexus meant when they said they'd be like BMW.... Refresh cycles early and often to keep the models fresh and in demand. Look at the 06 GS twins. By next year (spring 06) an all new variant GS450h joins the family. This car will spot the highest HP yet in a Lexus sedan, around 320-ishHP. And by the spring 2007, the GS350 arrives, followed by GS460 around the launch of the LS460 in the Fall of 06, wearing the crown of the highest HP Lexus sedans (350HP). That will also be short-lived until a year later when the LS600h arrives (MY2008) with 450HP output. And the beat goes on.... Next comes the V10-powered LF-A with 500HP....
The IS starts at 250/350, extends to the hi-po (2006 Fall), and then the coupe by 2007 (as a MY2008). Expect to see the IS300 by the time Lexus drops the GS300 model. The 3L V6 motors then migrate to the Camry and Solara, and maybe eventually trickle down to the Scion tC.
The ES should definitely become ES350. Its hard to say about the Camry. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
You got it wrong. The current 3.0L V6 in the Camry produces 210bhp and the 3.3L V6 in the Camry SE produces the same power as the 3.3L V6 in the ES330, which is 225bhp.
But there does seem to be some confusion. Currently, due to new SAE measurement standards, the horsepower numbers have been revised down. Even the 2.4L 4-cylinder has been revised down from 160bhp to 154bhp. I'm guessing for 2006, the ES330's motor will also be revised down to 210bhp. If you look at Toyota's website, they now have the 2006 model year Camry specs listed, while the Lexus site is still running for 2005 model year. I believe the LS430 is also supposed to be revised down to 278bhp for 2006.
The current 3.0L V6 does not date back to 1992. The 1992 Camry/ES300 has a 3.0L V6 version of the 2.5L V6 in the Camry/ES250. These engines were iron block/aluminum head motors. For the 1994 model year, both the ES300 and Camry got totally redesigned 3.0L V6 all-aluminum motors.
I know, this is another baffling question. So as of right now, everyone is basically confused about where the new 3.0L V6 will go after the GS300 and where the 2.5L V6 will go besides the IS250!!!
:P
What a horrible beast that would be...
"Great Chassis"
VDIM creates siliar complaints to GS
Great sales race between 3 and IS
Poor shifter in 250
DrFill
Yes, there's a lot of engine sharing going on, but Lexus will try to differentiate its Lexus mills from the plain Toyota ones. I think for now the most obvious difference will be direct injection technology - Lexus cars get it, Toyota ones don't - even if the rest of the engine might be the same.
That may be a consideration in hp obsessed US, but in Canada the IS250 may sell quite well even with an engine that can be considered tepid.
Up in Canada the e46 BMW320i was sold in great volumes for many years . The tepid engine's hp was merely 168 and the fuel economy was worse than the larger 2.5l engine(that's what I call bad engineering). Sometimes price takes a priority over engine specs.
2. Toyota Camry
3. Lexus ES or GS models
4. Scion vehicles
5. Infiniti G35
If there's nothing to say specifically about the Lexus IS, then feel free to remain silent until there is. Off-topic posts are disappearing, and will continue to do so.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
~alpha
1) we don't know what the price of the IS250 or IS350 is going to be.
2) I wouldn't even buy a 330i. It's overpriced as is. The 325i would be the ticket.
3) If the IS350 were priced the same as a 330i, I wouldn't buy it. I expect Lexus to be a better value, therefore it should undercut the BMW by a few grand. If the IS350 is basically the same price as a 330i, I would run to a Acura or Infiniti dealer and get a TL or G35.
I will be buying an IS 350 and plan on driving it all year!
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_new_lexus_ready/index.htm
Lexus says the IS exists as the sportiest of its sedans. Unlike its European rivals, its “entry” sport sedan gets demonstrably more power than its larger, costlier stablemates. Lexus expects about 20% of buyers to opt for the 3.5L model. But after test-drives here, that expectation may be too low, as the 2.5L DOHC V-6 in the IS 250 models churns out just 204 hp.
Although the 2.5L uses only direct injection to produce adequate punch – particularly if one liberally exercises the paddle shifters – 102 hp between the two engines will be hard for today's horsepower-hungry consumers to ignore.
Not only is it unlikely 80% of buyers will be satisfied with the 2.5L's 204-hp output, the base engine actually represents a power regression: The outgoing IS' 3L DOHC inline 6-cyl. makes 215 hp.
Lexus may be expecting a disproportionate take rate for the IS 250 because it offers AWD, a second for the brand (the '06 GS was the first Lexus car to offer AWD).
Gotta agree. They go on to say the IS may steal G35 buyers but that seems unlikely given only the IS350 (9k units available) is competition for the G35.
Well they failed there according to all reviews. Why do manus make these silly claims? I remember infiniti claiming they benchmarked the A4 for the interior of the G35. Uh, did you benchmark and then reduce by a factor of 50% kids?
I think it would be seen as kind of pathetic if Infiniti just copied and pasted the A4 interior. See: Benz S-class. Considering the difference in cost between the Audi and Infiniti, I think they did ok. I'm sure they could make it fancier for an additional 10 grand.
Dont get me wrong, I do think 20% as 3.5L models is low, I'm just saying... stranger things have happened.
~alpha
The above quote is from the link on post # 3397 Autoweek
Yes V6 advantages over i6 is that they are smaller and lighter. But he forgot to mention the advantage of inline-6s:
1) More power can be generated from I6s vs. V6s because they are better balanced engines.
2) I6s can rev higher than V6s meaning more hp.
3) I6s are more durable than V6s
4) As previously posted by Shipo -- the I6 will always be smoother and more refined feeling than an otherwise similar V6.
BMW's advantage is that it will soon be the only sport sedan that combines a i6 with rwd.
Right, but a modern, aluminum V6 with VVT on both intake and exhaust valves and direct injection is better than an old and obsolete inline
The statement above from Lexusguy is correct, BUT such a V6 withVVT and exhaust valves is likely not to be better than a new and modern i6.
256 HP in 1988... Not bad for back then...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I don't get the center of gravity argument - BMW seems to not have problems getting 50/50 weight distribution and great handling with the I6 - you just have to shove the engine further back into the chassis.
Ward's must've been reading my posts from last month! I nailed it again! Come up with your own stuff, guys! Or, at least, credit me properly! Your welcome!
The 350 will be hard to come buy, and certainly MSRP for the entire first year.
My #2: I6 vs. V6
Toyota/Lexus seems to have no problem making the smoothest V6 engines in the industry. Any design advantages in the I6 are minor at this point, and are dually cancelled out by cost disadvatages.
NOW, if Toyota would build the SUPRA, then you can make the argument, with costs better amortized through better utilization. At this point, I agree with 'Yota's decision, on paper. But I say build the Supra instead of another SUV.
If I6 were head and shoulders better than V6, they'd be used a lot more by makers. Buyers don't care how the cylinders are aligned, they just don't want cost-cutting to cost them power (Chevy Colorado). Which makes the 2.5 in the IS all the more puzzling.
Taking a step back in diplacement and power, while raising prices is not a sound strategy.
I hope the 250 bombs, so Lexus will be FORCED to read the target market better. $30k sport sedan buyers don't want less power for more features.
DrFill
That is if they have a 2.7 or 2.8 engine in the pipeline.
To get the most interior room, the engine is pushed forward as much as possible.. With a V-6, all of the engines weight is only three cylinders deep.. With the I-6, half of the engine will be farther to the rear.. helping weight distribution..
Of course, you could always push the V-6 farther back... but, usually they don't do this for packaging reasons (which is the main reason to use the V-6 in the first place).
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I really do not understand this obsession with HP... I am a $30K sport sedan buyer - and you do not speak for me.
I would take more features for less HP - the IS250 will have no problem with merging into freeway traffic, etc. With gas prices only going to continue going up, motoring around with excessive HP/lower MPG just to have bragging rights? - silly - maybe those folks should just go buy an SRT (and give up the luxury features, world-class build quality and visit the gas station much more often). Guess some folks like to strut around saying "Hemi, Hemi"
Lest we forget, there are a lot of happy 4 cylinder Camry owners driving around... And, there is still the IS350 for those that feel the need for more HP.
And, I would take your bet that the IS250 will not bomb.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
For those people thinking IS250 it's all about features and being seen in a lexus...it's not about the car's ability.
Sayz who ? The IS250/6MT will be a fun to drive car, maybe as much fun as the IS350/6A slush box, except for the raw power of the latter. Methinks all the new IS cars will do very well in the market. Certainly much better than the IS300 they replaces.
Like DrFill said, which I agree, the IS350 will be a hard to find car. If you want one, get on the waiting list right now otherwise you may have a long wait to buy one.
Wrong.
I think the IS250 will have plenty of ability...for a sporty, daily driver. If I lived on a dry lakebed maybe I would worry about 0-60 and top end.
Being seen in a Lexus? I was seen in a Lexus once - test driving the GS. If I was driven by image, I would buy a Bimmer (like your overpriced 330).
Maybe the IS aims to be an all-around sporty/lux sedan - for those wanting sport+ value, reliability, features, good mpg, etc. I am not hot for maximum HP (that I will never use) or bitchin about not having a stick shift (I have an RX-8 for twisty roads).
I do not think many of the (myopic) comments on this board are sincerely meant as geniune remarks about the IS - just Infiniti and Bimmer fans taking shots - HP and Stick - as has been heard on this board since (at least) March.
The e46 BMW320i's 2.2l engine had worse fuel efficincy than the e46 BMW330i's 3.0 litre engine! I am sure the IS250 will have better mileage, but will it be better enough to boast about?
Personally I would rather drive a less powerful manual IS250 than a automatic IS350. In fact I hope that the manual IS250 becomes a HIT and the automatic IS350 flops. Then Lexus will be forced to introduce a manual IS350. If the the IS350 is a success, then you can say Sayonara to a manual IS350.
Based on Lexus estimates that 5% of IS250s will have manual transmissions. That to me is a very depressing statistic. As depressing as a picture I saw today of a Ferrari interior with a slush box :mad:
Everything he says in that interview in Autoweek is bogus! And it is not only his V6 claims that are bogus!
On the mechanical side, the ride comfort and handling performance were not up to Lexus standards. Neither was the body control and stability
Was Mr. Fukusato San still in grade school during 2001 when the IS300 was gaining praises everywhere about handling performance, especially when compared to the 3 series? New emphasis on ride comfort, body control and stability--- Mr. Fukusato why are you not engineering the ES instead!!!
If this guy is chief engineer of the IS, I think every enthusiast should feel enough chill up his spine by now!
The IS250 offers nothing special from what I've seen and read thus far. In fact reviews tend to gloss over it and/or make comments about it not having the gumption they'd expect. 206 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque...wow, that doesn't exactly compare well to anything in the class.
I don't see any sport in the Is250. Maybe I'll drive an IS250 for giggles. Though I can't imagine spending 30k+ on a car that has no real power.
Again to each his own.
BTW, my "overpriced" bimmer will cost me 17k over 3 years. Not exactly a money pit, imho.
By "Lexus standards", maybe he meant that the handling feel was not soft enough. Totally serious. Quite a few people like the light, boosted handling feel that is essentially a trademark of Lexus vehicles.
The IS300 had great handling feel. In fact, that was pretty much the car's primary positive attribute.
http://lexus.jp/models/is/spec/price.html
http://lexus.jp/models/gs/spec/price.html
Also, note that the Japanese versions have more hp than their US counterparts.
1 pferdestarke (ps) = 0.9863201 horsepower