Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

blueguydotcom

Visit carsdirect.com to check out G35 prices...they're exceptionally low.

BTW in the 2001 model year (so september 2000) the 330i debuted. Why would the 03 G35 be put up against a 2000 328i?

dewey

"I seem to remember it beating the 328 whjen it came out in MT, and beating a 325 in C&D and being voted "10 Best" in C&D. AND beating 10 sports sedans in R&T, including a 3 (2nd place) and IS (3rd)."

Not only is it the Tequilla, but you are also very well versed in historical facts.

Focusing on here and now have you noticed the drive test comparison between the G35 and BMW330i in the current August Automobile magazine? The results are a bit different from the past.

The G35 today is sort of like an aged starlet that lives in Sunset Boulevard!

idele

My Lexus RX400h has VDIM. My experience with it has been positive. For example, it's much flatter cornering at speed.

lexusguy

"The G35 today is sort of like an aged starlet that lives in Sunset Boulevard!"

Infiniti was able to achieve a 1400% rigidity increase over the G when they developed the FM-L platform for the M. If they can further improve on that for the next G, Lexus and BMW may be in big trouble.

dewey

If they can further improve on that for the next G, Lexus and BMW may be in big trouble.

Only time will tell!

dewey

Lexuses do everything right, but they don’t have the same soul that BMW manages to infuse into its cars. Will the ‘relentless pursuit of perfection’ put a more involved driving experience into the Lexus IS?

The above is a quote from Autoblog! http://www.autoblog.com/

Here is more info about the IS:

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102794

blueguydotcom

My Lexus RX400h has VDIM. My experience with it has been positive. For example, it's much flatter cornering at speed.

What the blazes? VDIM, unless your car has an active suspension, would not impact that flatness of the vehicle in corners - that's all about the suspension setup.

lexusguy

As I understand it, the RX400h has less body roll than the 330 because of better balance and a lower center of gravity from the batteries. VDIM has nothing to do with it.

g17

~40K for the new IS350 would be a steal. Best perf. for the $. I was really set on the new 330i until I researched the new IS350.

41K for a 330i with only 255hp seems like an even worse deal. 41k only includes met. paint, auto, htd seats, and sport pkg. No leather.....!!

blueguydotcom

Funny how the "better" performing IS350 with 306 hp made it to 60 in 6.1 seconds according to Karl, Edmunds' editor.

Best performance for the money is easily the G35...30-32k (nice rebates on the car right now) will get you a car that will easily run with the IS350 and outrun it in the corners too.

BTW, if you really like the 330i, then look into Euro Delivery. That same 41k car would be 35.5-36k via ED. Spend 1 k to fly to germany and grab the car and you've picked up your ride for 36.5-37k - that's a giant chunk lower than the cost of the IS350.

Funny how people can declare a car they've never driven as "the car for them." Wow, wish I had the power to see the future.

maximus_gti

Personally I like the power and handling and the manual of the G35, however I would never get it unless they change the face and the interior. Those I just can't live with. To me the G35 is one of the ugliest looking cars out there. I mean from the back its alright, but once you get to the side and the front, I just wanna look away, its nasty looking. I know a lot of people like it, but that's just IMO. I'd rather get a nice looking car inside out then get an ugly one with power.

The TL on the other hand is a sweet looking car, it just looks so agressive when you look at the front. Even more so then the TSX. Same with the IS, this new looks amazing to me, inside and out. I would rather get it, with less power, then the G35 or the 330. but that's just me. I like driving hard and I like pushing the car, but I also want my comfort too and I want my car to look good to me.

lexusguy

Edmunds is always slow with the 0-60 runs. It took them more than six seconds with the 2006 BMW 330i. C&D beat them by a half second.

idele

Thanks for the information. The RX400h certainly corners very flatly. Since it involves vehicle dynamics I assumed, apparently incorrectly, that VDIM was responsible. I stand corrected.The Lexus hybrid is a wonderful vehicle and I would venture to say that the upcoming IS will also be a superior vehicle.

chris65amg

That the side view of a G35 looks a little bit like a loaf of bread. It looks a little immature to be a luxury sedan, but it is a very fun car to drive. The thing that people don't understand about power to weight ratios and cost to power ratios is that they really don't mean too much. For performance, one has to consider the suspension setup, steering ratios, transmission gearing, and more. That's why the 330i has always been a hoot to drive. BMW works well with what they have, and they make the 330i a very dynamic and balanced vehicle. The G35 doesn't quite handle up to the 3-Series' astronomically high standards. The way I see it, price doesn't matter either. No, I'm not a millionaire (I'm not even rich), but just because a G35 costs around 35k well equipped doesn't mean that I'm going to buy it over a 3-Series that is (in performance and luxury) superior. I'm sure that the IS will be more luxurious than the G35, but will it handle better? Toughie.

oac

Listen up guys, if you want a G by all means go buy one, and stop trolling on the "Next IS" board. Enough about the G already.....Puleazeeee...

Kirstie_H

Agreed - there are plenty of places to talk about the G35, and if you're desperate to compare vehicles, visit the Sedans comparisons board. Enough talk that's not focused specifically on the Lexus IS.

basscadet

Far from a surprise that the new IS300 replacement gets rid of almost everything that made that car the sole exciting car sold under the Toyota banner in America.

A recipe for disaster:

1) Take the smooth inline 6 engine out and replace it with a ho-hum V6 that likes to be revved about as much as tractor.

2) Make the car heavier

3) Make the car more bland in its appearance

4) Refuse to offer a manual transmission with the most powerful engine, thus insuring that real enthusiasts will never become...err...enthusiastic about your car

BMW must love this. Their competition has become much less BMW-like. Lexus executives badly want a piece of that BMW pie and it looks like they'll remain unsatiated.

maxhonda99

"1) Take the smooth inline 6 engine out and replace it with a ho-hum V6 that likes to be revved about as much as tractor. "

Huh...now this may sound stupid but, the old inline 6 was not exactly a model of refinement in this decade.....Also, it wasn't exactly a high revver, while the new V6's are strong performers. 310bhp out of a 3.5L V6 seems pretty much the opposite of ho-hum. Oops...now that I think of it, it doesn't sound stupid.

"2) Make the car heavier."

If you want lighter, you're not going to find it at BMW either. the 3-series is about the same weight. As with others, it seems like you are either looking for a BMW 3-series from the early 90s or a Subaru WRX STi or Lancer Evo.

"Their competition has become much less BMW-like.

Weird, BMW has become much more Lexus like since 1990 also. A current BMW 3-series is hardly as involving and communicative as a 3-series was 2 generations ago. ANd let's not forget, in 15 years the 3-series has gone from under 2900lbs. to about 3400+lbs. today.

saigonboi21

BMW must love this. Their competition has become much less BMW-like. Lexus executives badly want a piece of that BMW pie and it looks like they'll remain unsatiated.

I must agree with you that i was disappointed that they tossed out the I6. But have you ever heard of the phrase "fitting in while standing out"?? I think Lexus wants a performance car that will be able to compete with BMW but not one exactly like it. Why would you want the same things that BMW's have? Why not just buy BMW's and put Lexus's stamps on them?

idele

It is my understanding that the new IS motors use direct fuel injection which allows higher compression ratios and thus more power and better fuel economy. Direct fuel injection is used by BMW on their V12. To my knowledge its the only motor of theirs that has DFI.. It's not on the 3-series.

dewey

"the old inline 6 was not exactly a model of refinement in this decade...."

Interesting theory, but did you know that old inline 6s can be improved into new potent inline 6s?

A new inline 6 for an IS would have been ideal. Unfortunately Toyota is too practical to produce such an ideal car. Why? Because of economies of scale. It would be cheaper for Toyota to develop a V6 3.5l that can be shared with other vehicles. Just as Nissan drops in a 3.5l engine under the hood of almost all its models.(both Infiniti and Nissan)

dewey

Basscadet,

agree with every word of your last post, except about the IS styling. I think the IS styling is just fine. Then again what do I know about styling as I am an admirer of Bangle curves!

rotoryfan

Lexus must be doing something right in the new IS - the Bimmer and Infiniti devoted are all over this board taking shots at the new IS - a car they have never seen or driven. They must be very concerned about the Lexus competition - maybe the roundel will lose some of it's glimmer/status? If the IS sells in significant numbers, all this naysaying will be irrevelant.

P.S. I have never owned a Lexus although, after reading the "History of Lexus", I was very impressed with the lengths (exhaustive testing/engineering, quality of materials, etc.) to which they are willing to go to build a world-class car. I am anxious to experience the IS in person.

P.P.S. I don't think anyone on this board, truly interested in the new IS, is attempting to question the Bimmer and Infiniti faithful in their decision to own those cars...to each their own. More choices/competition in the segment, e.g. the IS, is great for us!

blueguydotcom

Lexus must be doing something right in the new IS - the Bimmer and Infiniti devoted are all over this board taking shots at the new IS - a car they have never seen or driven. They must be very concerned about the Lexus competition - maybe the roundel will lose some of it's glimmer/status? If the IS sells in significant numbers, all this naysaying will be irrevelant.

that doesn't make any sense. I'm here because i'm still interested in the IS350.

P.S. I have never owned a Lexus although, after reading the "History of Lexus", I was very impressed with the lengths (exhaustive testing/engineering, quality of materials, etc.) to which they are willing to go to build a world-class car. I am anxious to experience the IS in person.

i'm anxious to drive one too. on the otherhand, I couldn't care less about the history of Lexus or any other make.

P.P.S. I don't think anyone on this board, truly interested in the new IS, is attempting to question the Bimmer and Infiniti faithful in their decision to own those cars...to each their own. More choices/competition in the segment, e.g. the IS, is great for us!

True. maybe it'll push bmw to improve the e90 immediately and look into reliability. the IS is still on my radar expressly because of my concerns about german engineering.

maxhonda99

Ah...duh....of course Toyota could have developed a new inline-6 for the IS.

But did you read what the previous poster said about the current IS's inline-6 vs. V6 in the new IS??? He was comparing those 2 engines, not what a new inline-6 would be vs. the V6 in the 06 IS.

Yes, a new inline-6 would have been ideal. But they didn't design a new inline-6. Let's move on. All the ranting you do about it won't bring back the inline-6 to any Toyota in the US. Besides, 90%+ of the buyers on the market today don't care and couldn't tell/feel the difference between a straight 6 and a V6. Do you really think BMW would sell any less 3-series' if they went to V6's??

dewey

Ah...duh....of course Toyota could have developed a new inline-6 for the IS.

Thanks for informing me so cordially!

Do you really think BMW would sell any less 3-series' if they went to V6's??

Absolutely! They would definitely sell less cars if they had V6s! There are quite a number of people who drive a BMW because of M initial.

lexusguy

I find it somewhat amusing that there is all this nostalgia for the Toyota inline 3.0L now that its gone. Who appreciated it when it was still here? Lets face the facts folks, in normally aspirated form, the engine basically stunk. The SC300, the GS300, and yes, even the IS300, were never known for setting the world on fire with blinding acceleration or monsterous power. Additionally, the best it could do is maybe 22mpg on the highway, no better than the 4.3L V8. So, it was already old when the IS300 was released in 2001, dated, not competitive in terms of power and torque, and not fuel efficient either. Yet everybody is acting like Toyota is Porsche going to watercooling. I dont get it.

dewey

Old and dated inline engines from any company would be uncompetitive, whether they are from Porsche or Toyota!

molokai

Doesn't BWM use inline 6 engines? I think they're smoother. BWM is able to extract a great deal of power from straight 6 engines.

shipo

Simple physics dictates that at any given level of technical sophistication, the I6 will always be smoother and more refined feeling than an otherwise similar V6. Why? Easy, because in an I6 motor, all reciprocating mass is always perfectly balanced or offset by other reciprocating mass. Mathematically speaking, that is impossible to achieve with a V6, even with balance shaft technology.

Best Regards,
Shipo

lexusguy

Right, but a modern, aluminum V6 with VVT on both intake and exhaust valves and direct injection is better than an old and obsolete inline, no matter how smooth it was. I'd take the new 3.5L over the old 3.0L any day of the week.

chris65amg

I would take the V6 over the I6. However, I really did like the IS300's handling. Hope they didn't butcher that.

glenford

...at http://www.lexus.com/2006is_preview/

Not much changed. HP specs are at 204 & 306. Tim

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h

alpha01

I really wish they could have made it 205 hp and 185 lb ft for the 2.5L. Theres something psychological for me about the strange 204 hp number.

~alpha

oac

Toyota can buy any car company they covet cos they got the CASH to do it. If TOY wanted BMW, they'd get it done, but its better beating them than owning them.

Looking at new pictures of the 2006 IS posted by autoweek shows this car to be quite a looker. Maybe it drives as good as it looks, eh ? I am certainly looking forward to my first test drive of an IS350; nothing less would be satisfying once you own a 300HP car, you'd be loath to go back and buy anything with lower output.

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/lexusis/pages/01.htm

drfill

First Ting: I am no G35-lover, per se.

Anyone who has read any but the last coupke of my 1000's of posts can figure out that I am a 'Yoda man! I was responding to some who were bashing the G in order to ut over the IS, which is crossing the line, as the G is a better performer/value at this point in time, and has proven itself worthy of inclusion in all "Best In Class" discussions.

My Hot #2: I love the old Supra's engine, but.....

It's time to move on. Even the SC400 got old. It happens to everything. A naturally-aspirated 306HP 3.5 V6 with DFI, VVTL-i, and better economy and emissions cannot be touched by the old 220HP 3L. Period. I'm sold on that.

Now only if they can sell me it with a MT! Not make me feel like I have to settle for the Runt of the Litter!

I still believe demand for the 350 will be higher, relatively, than the 250, and a MT will complete the 350 later in the cycle. Once guys see how many secretaries flock to the base car, the sales will further polarize, and the 250 will be shunned universally by drivers.

DrFill

mariner7

"No, it's not quite a BMW, but the new IS comes temptingly close"

Good job, Lexus. 3.5 has 308 hp, not 320+ some were speculating. Comparos with all competitors should be coming to a newstand near you. Can't wait.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/Sports_Convertibles/2006_Lexus_IS_250_IS_3- 50.S184.A8929.html

bobob20032000

Heres the Link : http://www.lexus.com/2006is_preview/index.html?s_ocid=20117

Lexus IS350 will have a 3.5-Liter V6 With 306 hp.
Lexus IS250 will have a 2.5-Liter V6 With 204 hp.

Pretty good horsepower. The IS250 may have less horsepower but its a small car and doesn't need to have that much horsepower but i would prefer the IS350 but i wish it would have an AWD option, I live in the Northeast. Lexus is now beginning to become more powerful and a good alternative to BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
Lets see if they can keep up the good work with the 2007 ES350, 2007 RX350, 2007 GS350 and LS460

blueguydotcom

The IS250 is not a small car. Anything but. It's a hefty piece of machinery with less usable power than an A3/GTI/A4/Jetta 2.0 - most dynos put the real power at 210-220 hp and 210 lb-ft of torque. Either that or VW has some magic voodoo that creates 5% drivetrain loss..

lexusguy

Well, perhaps VW\Audi is giving the turbo a little more boost than they are saying. They have the advantage of forced induction where they can easily adjust horses by maybe +\- 50 just by adjusting boost pressure.

As I've said before, I still dont understand why Lexus didnt keep it the IS300 and use the new 3.0L engine. The 250 AWD is going to push past the 8 second mark, and that just looks bad, especially when a similarly priced G35x can probably do it in under 6.5. Lexus has said that because of the unanticipated success of the GS300 AWD they may give the IS350 AWD as well, but thats easily going to be a $45K car.

maxhonda99

The Toyota 3.0L V6 is really quite a baffling engine! The question is...where else will they use that engine?? It makes no sense to just design a 3.0L V6 for the GS300 for a couple of model years.

rotoryfan

New Lexus magazine is out...has article and info on the new IS.

at lexus.com under the links "owners" and then "lexus magazine"

mikegiller

Maybe the 3.0 V6 will go into the 2007 Camry unlike the 3.5 V6 like some believe and possibly the 3.5 as an option for the sport package?... and/or the 3.0 V6 will make its way into the IS and the 2.5 will go elsewhere? I'm sure all of this will make sense in 2 years! :confuse:

oac

I agree. I can easily see Lexus upgrading the IS250 to an IS300 in a couple years, when the coupe/hardtop gets here, as well as the real hi-po IS500. Then Lexus will have a real competitive line-up: IS300 (250HP), IS350 (315HP), IS500 (400HP), and IS350C (315HP). That's my forecast for MY2008 line-up.

blueguydotcom

Interesting forecast...though Lexus has shown they're rather disinclined to continually spruce up the line up...as witnessed by the atrocious 04 GS300...which was just like the one released in 01! IS300...no upgrades. ES300 and RX300 went to the 330 models when the 3.3 became the engine of choice in the camry but as we know those vehicles are essentially reskinned camries/highlanders so it worked out across the board. The IS/GS...the supposed sporting cars never saw updates.

It'd be nice if lexus changed their ways. lets hope you're right.

lexusguy

Thats not quite correct. The story is actually worse for the GS than you make it out to be. It sat basically unchanged from '98-'05. The '01 refresh had slightly reshaped headlamps and some new interior bits and that was it. The only car that Lexus let sit longer than the GS is the '92-'00 SC.

The '04 RX330 got the new engine, but it also received a total redesign. The Highlander did not. It was introduced much later than the original RX, and still hasnt been totally redesigned yet.

Its true that in the past, Lexus let its "sporty" SC and GS sit and languish while its big sellers ES and LS got updates or redesigns every 4-5 years. They say that is going to change though, and the fact that there are not one but three updates coming to the GS before even its mid-life refresh is a good sign that they are going to deliver on that.

kevin111

If what Mariner's link stated is correct on the price (#3339 of 3349 Review by mariner7), this car is DOA. A base IS250 starting around $35k??????? They have to be kidding!

If the IS350 starts around $35K fairly loaded (sunroof and sports package), then they have something. Otherwise, a BMW 330i starts for a couple grand more, and I can get a loaded G35 sedan or Acura TL for around that!!!

BTW, according to that link, the 3 series and the IS350 are almost identical in the 0-60 range (both 5.6 secs) even though the IS350 has 50 more Horsepower.

I thought the IS was looking to compete with the BMW 3series and G35 in price as well as performance, I guess not.

kevin111

One other thing:
One other thing, what is it with Lexus and the over-nannying with its sporty cars? I know the GS is fun to drive, but suffers from the over-extension of its electronics (Stability control/ skid control/etc.) I was hoping Lexus would be a little bit more loose with its electronics system with the IS, but alas, this does not seem to be the case:

from - "http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106455"

"Still, there's so much technology aboard the IS 350, the driver is too insulated from the driving. The electronic throttle's response isn't as crisp as we would like, the transmission takes too long to respond to the paddle shifters and the steering is precise and quick, but hardly communicative. It's enough to make you miss the old IS 300's nervy, adolescent edge.

The biggest downer, however, is the inability to disarm the VDIM system, which mutes the sedan's performance long before the limits of its chassis and its optional 18-inch summer-spec tires are reached (17-inch all-weather tires are standard). There's a great engine, a great chassis and spectacular brakes under all that electronic baby-sitting, but the VDIM system is so intrusive it's hard to tell. We expressed a similar complaint about the GS 430.

A VDIM "Off" button would make this a much better sport sedan. "

dewey

The 250 AWD is going to push past the 8 second mark, and that just looks bad, especially when a similarly priced G35x can probably do it in under 6.5.

The question is what % of sales will 250 AWD and RWD be as portion of total IS sales.

It will be interesting to see if the IS250 will follow the path of the BMW 325 in terms of the lower powered vehicle being the best volume seller. Or if it will follow the path of the new Charger in which based on May/June order estimate 70 to 80 percent have ordered the higher powered Hemi version versus the more tepid V6 version.