Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

oac

If you truly believe what you say then I guess your Lexus sunglasses are clouding your opinion because the TL and RL show Acura can make cars basically on par with Lexus in terms of quality and overall package. I own the 05 RL and my folks have a loaded LS430...I can tell you the RL's quality is pretty darn close to the LS430 so apparently Acura being "lower tier" knows how to do things.

This is NOT the forum to talk about your RL...

But talking about the IS350, Lexus has earned the right to charge higher prices for their products. That is just fact, whether you or I like it or not. Just like BMW and MB... You gotta pay for quality.... Look at the list of standard features on the IS and the price in the mid-30K looks OK to me. Since you already own an RL, why do you care about the IS pricing ? Be happy with your RL and good luck with it.

jrock65

"That is a fully loaded Lexus for less then 40 K, that looks like a good deal to me."

Um, an almost fully loaded IS350 will have add another $5000 for the Premium Luxury Plus Package, Park Assist and Levinson, to make it $45,000.

For a truly fullly loaded to the gills IS350, add $2800 (estimated) for the PCS+DCC combo, making it near $48,000.

wco81

Actually, I don't see HID or xenons on that configuration.

You still have to get like a $3500 package?

oac

Vehicle Base Model ..........................: $35440.00
Navigation System Includes: ................ $2550.00
Generation 5 Navigation System with Rear Came
Bluetooth, and Voice-Activation with Destination
Preferred Accessory Package: ............... 194.00
--------- ---------
Total Accessories ...........................: $ $2744.00
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 590.00
---------
Total .......................................: $38774

EXACTLY what I am looking for. And my $42K OTD is dead-on. Liking it even more....

What would a similarly configured e90 330i retail for ??? Anyone know ??

fatcat71

Go away for a few hours and look at what you miss.
I guess noone has any firm data on the options MSRP.
If you believe road and track and all of the other mag's then the BMW is a better driving/handling car. To me the main issues are Value/reliability/safety.
Lexus got that hands down.
Probably just as good as the Infiniti G35x, but IMHO a bit better than the Acura (AWD vs FWD)
Someone posted earlier about the FX 35/45 being the best handling/performance SUV and asked if there was any comparable Lexus.
Who buys a SUV for it's performance and handling?

bushsux1

That is supposed to be the sticker off of a new IS350 in Dallas. I picked it up off some other web site, so I'm not positive, but it does match up with the invoice price quoted earlier, so I'm inclined to think its the real deal.

magmir

FWIW, called the local dealer today (Hennessey (sp?) Lexus in Atlanta). They have one IS in, a 350 with EVERY single option (according to the salesguy). He said it was 47k.

taitando

Uh, you're wrong. The MT6 arrived within the same model year. The G35 released in March and by January of 03 the MT6 came on the scene.

Woo hoo. So 10-11 months doesn't equal a year. OMG, you got me there. It still doesn't change the fact that it wasn't immediately available.

Actually they have never said such a thing. If you find a quote, please post it. I've spoken directly to people at Lexus HQ here in so cal and always the same response: apologies but not even a peep about the manual. They have strongly suggested I try the car anyway. Which will happen.

Transcript from a chat w/ Bob Carter from, of all places, Edmunds.com:

k2h asks: Is there a chance that a 6-Speed Manual will be an option on the IS350 model trim in the near future

Bob Carter: ... Currently we are not forecasting sufficient demand for the manual on the IS 350. However, we always listen to our customers, and if there is sufficient demand, we can always consider it in the future.

Oh noooo, he said, "consider". (Where's the eye rolling emoticon when you need it?)

That's a tad pricey considering one can get a G35, TL and 330i with the same wanted elements for less money with a little effort.

Other than the 330i, those cars have been on the market for how long now? What type of deals were you able to find on a 330i in its first month of release? Face it, you're not going to get heavy discounts on cars during the first month, especially if they become popular. blueguydotcom, there seems to be a lot of other cars out there that seem to better fit what you're looking for, so I don't understand why you keep ragging when you could already be driving.

hintz

The car arrived tonight at the Dealer in Naples, FL going tomorrow for a test drive... YEAH

blueguydotcom

Glad to read they're changing their tune about the IS350 6mt.

As for why I'm still looking...the lease on my 330i ZHP isn't up until May of 06. I've got 8 months to find what I want off a dealer lot. Or 3 months to decide for certain and order for ED if I'm stuck returning to a manufacturer I do not respect or want to give money to once again.

FWIW, I don't believe there is any car in this class worth 40k. The performance to cost ratio just isn't there. I was set in 03 to do an ED on my 330i when I happened into a 43k msrp one that had all I wanted and they were willing to sell it to me for under 40k. At the time I had no real reason to visit europe (unlike now) so the 2k savings wasn't worth it to me.

tyorder1

yes they have a white 350 and a slate 250 at naples lexus. Must say the car looks 100 times better in person. I love it now. Hope I love the drive.

blueguydotcom

I wouldn't even pause to look at it. It's missing xenons and it has navi.

prime203

Ok ive been glued to this forum, and i just talked to the manager on online sales at Longo Lexus in southern cali... she told me as of right now they will NOT be selling any IS250/350s with Mark Levinson audio, and if anyone wants it... it goes as special order. Why is lexus doing this??? Why offer something great online and not make it available to one of the spend-happiest states?! Im hoping someone has more info and she was just wrong about all of this... without the ML audio the IS is not complete.

smh2

Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Premium Audio System Package - $4,030 [2]
- Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System [3] with backup camera [4]
- Mark Levinson [5] 14-speaker 330-watt [6] Premium Surround Sound Audio System

- Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System [3] with backup camera [4] - $2,250 [2]
- Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) [7] and Dynamic Radar Cruise Control [8] - $2,850 [2]
- Ventilated front seats - $200 [2]
- Rain-sensing variable intermittent windshield wipers with mist control and headlamp washers - $225 [2]
- Intuitive Parking Assist - $500 [2]
- Power rear-window sunshade - $210 [2]

These are the options on a GS300. I would expect pricing on the IS to be very close to this.

Note: A 2006 BMW 325i would run you 36,290 if you wanted to get the standard equipment that comes free on an automatic IS at 31,160. (A 5,000 dollar difference, granted im not sure if the Lexus includes destination) I currently have a last generation 325i and I must say that I will be buying the Lexus for my next car because of reliability and dealer service. Its also a plus that I don't have to pay extra for things like paint and leather on the Lexus.

smh2

I almost forgot.... You get 17's standard on an IS250. BMWs 325 come w/ wimpy 16's unless u get the sport package.

I really think Lexus is on the right track!!!

jrock65

The 325i with the "wimpy" 16's will still handily outhandle the IS250 w/ 17's.

Also, the 325i has significantly better straightline performance than the IS250.

smh2

Just curious jrock, have you driven an IS250

hintz

tyorder1 are you in naples too, or work at the dealership?

jrock65

Yes, 250 RWD auto. Interior is better than the 3, but in handling and acceleration, the 325 is definitely ahead. BTW, when you add destination, the IS250 RWD auto is more like $32,000.

rjorge3

Nothing in life is balanced. We sacrifice something in order to get something else in return. The "Handling" aspect of the BMW I believe is second to none in their segment. But you know what? After my current car lease, which handle very well (Audi A4 6MT Quattro) and having driven my friend's 530i extensively (which I love to death), I can definitely say that I can happily sacrifice the "handling" thrills, and I will get myself the IS250 AWD when my lease expires. I am just so envious at how Lexus dealer treats my brother when he goes to service his ES300, and I will not even speak about reliability. Because if BMW is known for its "Handling", we all know that Lexus and overall Japanese cars are, far, far, very very far more reliable than all the German cars put together.

So, I guess I will not be racing on the highways, but I will be a very happy camper when my first service is due next year at the Lexus dealer :>)

merc1

The G ate into 3 series BMW sales big time, and still may be the best near-luxury car, when you factor in the electronic nanny of the IS.

Uh..actually that isn't true. The current 3-Series has broke 100K units a year with no sweat, the G35 didn't do a thing to 3-Series sales overall. Nothing.

M

patrickw

My wife and I have been driving a late-2002 BMW 330xi (on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires - we get winter here) for the last 3 years. We attended "A Taste of Lexus" event last weekend and drove the new IS 350 RWD and IS 250 AWD. The 330 is much more powerful than the 250, while comparing RWD to AWD is problematic (e.g., any unlocked AWD system loses some torque), but my guess is that if the 350 was fitted with AWD, it would still pass quicker than a stock 330xi. The IS has a little softer ride and soaks up road imperfections better, but turn-in is weak and body roll to the front outside corner is pronounced (not unsafe - just not a 3-series; they had a few new 325i models there for comparison). The stability control system is way too aggressive, cutting off rather than moderating power - it actually left me feeling less secure. The seats in the IS are plusher, but offer less support. I'm tall, and I had more headroom and could achieve a more comfortable driving position in the IS. The interior appointments are first-rate; the 330 appears utilitarian by comparison. Nonetheless, my wife and I both agreed that even if Lexus offered a 350 with AWD, we would still prefer a new 330xi; it feels more secure and is more fun to drive.

jjrob

Make all the comparisons to BMW you want. Yay, Bmw may have better handling performance but 2-3 years, I wouldn't be surprised if the car started giving you headaches. Its too bad the guys at Road and Track don't keep the cars for daily use for 2 plus years and do a reliabilty evaluation liek jd powers does which has repeatedly rewarded lexus with countless awards. Speaking of Road and Track they compared the BMW 3series and LEXUS IS350 in last months issue and said as soon as we sat in the bmw the malfunction lights started to flicker. Porsche...maybe, but bmw and mercedes simply put does not match to the japanese hondas, toyotas, nissans, reliability.

Now a question is... Isn't it worth it to get the IS350 over the 250 Because the Hp difference is little less than 100? Is it for the manual or for the AWD for you snow drivers?

prime203

hey does anyone have the RWD is250 0-60 time, i read 7.9secs somewhere but that can't be right... seems way to slow even with its weight and lack of hp.

fatcat71

Say what you want, the bottom line is personal choice. If you think the increased performance of the blue and white propeller is important, go and create your own BMW forum. To me, the new 3 series is just plain ugly. :P
Go pay 38K for a bare bones 325xi, get your free maintence, and pray that the idiot lights gon't drive you crazy

Kirstie_H

Folks, this isn't a comparisons discussion. You are welcome to start a new comparisons discussion on the Sedans comparisons board, but let's try to stick to the Lexus IS in this topic.

Also, please avoid the temptation to make comments about other members. I removed some posts because they contained personally-directed comments rather than conversation about the vehicle. Thanks!

fatcat71

Since the car is officially on sale tomorrow, do you think we can get some actual options pricing?? I would like to know how much it would be for the 250awd with nav. I'm thinking 37k with dest. Any thoughts??

fatcat71

Figuring 37 K for the car the way I like it and putting down the tax and tags only I'm thinking with a 58% residual a lease price around 450/mo Any thoughts?

fatcat71

Oops, I used the wrong residual value. It's closer to 550 a month
still cheaper than the 325xi and only marginally more expensive than the a4 quattro :P

lipster

This is from an email from the Resnick Auto Group - Woodfield Lexus in a suburb of Chicago: Sorry for the format. If you want the e-mail let me know:

I do not know if the below includes destination or not:

Code Description Suggested
Retail Price

9501 IS 250 Luxury Sport Sedan - 6M/T $29,990.00
9502 IS 250 Luxury Sport Sedan - 6ECTi $31,160.00
9506 IS 250 Luxury Sport Sedan - 6ECTi AWD $34,285.00
9510 IS 350 Luxury Sport Sedan - 6ECTi $35,440.00

Options
FT 18" Alloy Wheels with Summer Tire
(RWD Models Only)
$720.00

HW Headlamp Washers
(Requires LD, LL, LT, or ST)
$100.00

LD Luxury Package includes Bi-Xenon HID + AFS
w/Auto Level Headlamps; Outside Auto-Dimming
Mirrors; Power Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel;
Rain-Sensing Wipers and Power Sunshade
(IS 250 AWD Only
$2,205.00

LL Luxury Package includes Perforated Leather Seats
Heated and Ventilated Front Seats with Lexus Memory
System; Bi-Xenon HID + AFS w/Auto Level Headlamps;
Outside Auto-Dimming Mirrors; Power Tilt/Telescopic
Steering Wheel; Rain-Sensing Wipers; Power Sunshade;
and Bird&rsquos Eye Maple Interior Trim
(RWD Models Only)
$3,495.00

LT Luxury Package includes 225/40R18 + 255/40R18"
Alloy Wheels w/ summer tires; Perforated Leather Seats,
Heated and Ventilated Front Seats with Lexus Memory
System; Bi-Xenon HID + AFS w/Auto Level Headlamps;
Outside Auto-Dimming Mirrors; Power Tilt/Telescopic
Steering Wheel; Rain-Sensing Wipers; Power Sunshade;
and Bird&rsquos Eye Maple Interior Trim
(RWD Models Only)
$4,215.00

ML Mark Levinson Premium Audio Package
w/ AM/FM CD Changer and 14 Speakers
$940.00

NV Navigation System
w/ AM/FM CD Changer and 13 Speakers includes
Voice Activation, Bluetooth Technology, and Backup Monitor
$2,550.00

PA Intuitive Parking Assist
$500.00
PS Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) & Dynamic Radar
Cruise Control
(6AT Models Only)
$2,850.00
PT Premium Package includes Perforated Leather
Seats, Heated and Ventilated Front Seats w/ Lexus
Memory System, and Bird&rsquos Eye Maple Interior Trim
(RWD Models Only)
$1,290.00
ST Sport Package includes 225/40R18 + 255/40R18"
Alloy Wheels w/ Summer Tires, Sport Tuned Suspension,
Bi-Xenon HID + AFS w/Auto Leveling Headlamps, Perforated
Leather Seats, Heated and Ventilated Front Seats w/ Lexus
Memory System; Alloy Brake and Accelerator Pedals; Power
Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel; Rain-Sensing Wipers
(IS 250 RWD A/T and IS 350 Only)
$3,695.00
ST Sport Package includes 225/40R18 + 255/40R18"
Alloy Wheels w/ Summer Tires, Sport Tuned Suspension,
Bi-Xenon HID + AFS w/Auto Leveling Headlamps, Perforated
Leather Seats, Heated and Ventilated Front Seats w/ Lexus
Memory System; Alloy Brake, Accelerator, and Clutch Pedals;
Power Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel; Rain-Sensing Wipers
(IS250 M/T Only)
$3,725.00
VN Navigation System/Mark Levinson Premium Audio
Package includes DVD Changer and 14 Speakers,
Voice Activation, Bluetooth Technology, and Backup Monitor
$3,990.00
Specifications, equipment, and prices are subject to change without notice.Delivery Processing and Handling Fee, are additional.

tyorder1

Just in Naples. Crossing fingers that they get one with a nav and wood soon so I can see just what my options are. I really like the white one they got, but I want nav. Time will tell. The car looks smaller and alot more attractive in person. Don't you think?

hintz

I'm going to go look at the car this am, and take it for a test drive. What options were on the car?

alpha01

If destination is $650, then I'll take an IS350 with the Sport Pkg ($3695) and NAV/ML ($3990) for a tally of $43,775.



A boy can dream, cant he?

~alpha

untrue

The 250 AWD is too wimpy. Can't see myself driving a car that takes longer than 8 secs to 60. Perhaps Lexus will add a 250 AWD hybrid in a year or so.

CZ

ckelly14

Thanks for the post. I'm looking at a fully loaded IS250 RWD for 39K or a IS350 for 42K. May have to go with the 350 given the small delta in price.

I looked at the 530i yesterday and couldn't justify the $3500 difference between the 530 and the 525 (this is subjective, thanks). But 3K for 100 extra horses may be worth going for!

stickguy

$3,700 for bun warmers (on the 250 manual) is a bit pricey, since that is the only option in the luxo package that I actaully would pay for if they were ala carte (although the perfed seats sound nice too). Too bad you can't get the perfed heated/ventilated seats by themselves.

I agree that the base price and equipment are competitive, but the option packages are way overpriced for what you get, considering some competitors have soem of the stuff (perfed seats, HIDs, etc). standard already.

But, I could be perfectly happy with the IS250 w/o any options for $30,640 (inc. dest.), since it does have the roof and the power seats, which I really though were going to be buried in one of th eoption packages.

fatcat71

Ok I just got off the phone with a lexus dealer. IS 250AWD with park assist as the only "option"
35569 (inc dest)
they dont have the money factor or residual so I don't know the price yet, but will let you all know asap.
then I guess we will see if there is any "wiggle room " in the price, but I doubt it!

sdiver68

That opinion puts you at odds with industry analysts, sales figures, and operating margin...but you are welcome to it!

kdshapiro

merc1 is one of the most knowledgable posters on this board. But you are free to disagree with his musings.

brightness04

merc1 is one of the most knowledgable posters on this board.

It does not take much to be one of the most knowledgeable in terms of quoting second hand rag reviews; I doubt he has much first-hand ownership knowledge with any of the vehicles that he comments on regularly. On top of that, he is very biased. Never trust anyone who quotes from books all day, as they say; you can easily find material in the same set of rags that support an diametricly opposed agenda.

Anyone shopped for more than a couple 3's over the past couple decades should know that 3's usually didn't discount until the very end of a model run. Nowadays, they are discounting the E90 within a couple months of indtroduction, largely thanks to G. The sandbox that BMW used to dominate has become a lot more crowded.

mm9351

When will the "build your IS model" feature go live on the Lexus website? No more speculation, let's see all pricing / options in black and white. Talk about the 11th hour, especially for a vehicle launch that's scheduled for tomorrow.

kdshapiro

Let me put it this way. He has certainly offer a lot of insight and opinion and has a wide view of a segment of the auto industry. While we all have access to the same information he puts it together in a unique perspective.

I would be careful about going around and using the term biased. There isn't one amongst us who isn't or one of us who doesn't go around sounding like we are the last word in everything.

"The sandbox that BMW used to dominate has become a lot more crowded."

I absolutely agree with that, competitors in this space will be having a harder time trying to differentiate themselves. Our biases might sometimes blind us and prevent us from seeing why the competition might be doing better than us in certain aspects.

stickguy

it seems to be common that manufacturers are late updating their own websites. They must know by now what the prices are! Once they put out that PR piece, the site should have been updated. maybe they are waiting until the offical launch, and it will be up Friday or Monday.

the sandbox is way more crowded. Really, for a long time BMW had the performance niche to themselves. The competition tended to be different types of cars (TL, Audi, etc.), but nothing that was really a shot accross the bow of the "ultimate driving machine".

Actually, I think this class of car (entry level sporty/performance/luxury) has been expanding in sales quite a bit lately. So, even though the 3 series is selling as many (or even a few more) units than they used to, they have a smaller % of a bigger pie.

The IS, and the G for that matter, also probably attracted some people that never would have considered (or at least bought) a 3 series, so from that standpoint they aren't always competing.

I personally can't wait to sit in and drive one. it will be interesting to see how the various opinions expressed here fit into my own feelings.

This is either a hot rod roomy car, or a dog with no back seat that handles like a 1972 Buick, depending on who's opinion you trust.

brightness04

he puts it together in a unique perspective.

Both Pat Robertson and Jessee Jackson put NOLA disaster information together in their unique (biased) perspectives, neither of which was necessarily valid, or more worthwhile than the raw data.

I would be careful about going around and using the term biased. There isn't one amongst us who isn't or one of us who doesn't go around sounding like we are the last word in everything.

Yet, few of us are so biased as to claim that G35 has no effect on 3 series sales whatsoever. Even the dealers are disagreeing with that assessment by offering discounts on the E90's that are out for only a few months.

"The sandbox that BMW used to dominate has become a lot more crowded."

I absolutely agree with that,

Glad we agree. The new IS is yet another very viable player in the same sandbox.

archiart

The Canadian's Lexus site now has "Build your IS" feature. The fully loaded IS350 would be around $61,000(Canadian), which is 3k lower than base GS300. Hopefully, it would be same as US prices. Check this link.
http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en/home/vehicles/configurator/BE262T2006/configurator- .jsp?model=BE262T&year=2006

jrock65

The way I see it, the price of the IS350 is fair. Not a bargain, but not outrageous either.

The main thing I would change would be to make HID standard and separate out AFS into an option (like on the 2006 GS).

Xenons are pretty much expected even in entry level lux cars these days, and its primary competitors--the 330i, G35 and TL, all offer xenons as standard equipment.

As it stands now, you're forced to get a $3500 package just to get xenons.

Kirstie_H

Folks, let's STOP focusing on other members and keep the discussion centered around the IS. If you don't like merc1's posts, please just skip them - all opinions are welcome, as long as they're about cars rather than about other members.

We don't have a contest determine who is/isn't the most knowledgeable, and I can assure you that no prizes will be awarded.

brightness04

Very much agree with the sentiment (although, marble coolers are more important to me than the xenons). The problem with being forced into paying a $3500 package just for $200 worth of real benefit is that a few years later when we try to sell the car, the 2nd-hand buyer will be looking at the low base price disregarding all options.

brightness04

Apologies for sidetracking. I actualy don't dislike Merc1's posts, just didn't agree with kd's assessment of his posts. Merc1's posts are quite entertaining from time to time, and biased posts certainly have a place in forums too ;-) Once again, sorry for being sidetracked.

blueguydotcom

What the heck is up with that? you think 36k for an IS350, great! Then you want the sports package and suddenly the car is almost 40k. Whoa that's quite a jump for a tighter suspension and HIDs!

Memory seats are nice - but they should be standard. Medal pedals? Don't care. Power tilt-telescope - don't want and don't care. Ventilated seats? No thanks.

They need a more ala carte style menu.