2013 and earlier-Honda Civic Prices Paid and Buying Experience

kyfdx

Given those choices, why not the VW GTI?

gogiboy

kyfdx--

Well, I had a VW Golf that was purchased new some years ago and it had a lot of niggling problems with the fuel and electrical systems. Most everything that was plastic (and that is most everything) broke or fell off including the handles to advance the seats for entry into the back, the windshield wiper stalk 3X (not pleasant), radio knobs, trim pieces, Turkish tent headliner, etc, etc.

Despite those numerous issues I enjoyed "driving" the car and the VW interiors are very nice--when new! I guess my Honda and Toyotas have spoiled me; the fact that CR still is finding problems with VW and Audi coupled with the fact that the closest dealers for warranty or other work are 70-80 miles away really diminishes VW's appeal. Boy, I did lust after the R32, though, and nearly bought one of the 16V GTIs. One of my colleague's drives a three or four year old VW Jetta turbo wagon that seems to be pretty reliable thus far (and it was purchase used) so maybe I'm being too hard on the brand.

Gogiboy

kyfdx

I don't disagree with being wary of reliability issues with the VW..

I'm just very impressed with the fit and finish and the quality feel of the materials..... and, of course... the driving experience...

Pricy, though...

dwynne

On paper a good choice. With the TERRIBLE reliability record of VW I don't think I would buy one. The Si is actually one of the worse looking ones on paper - performance-wise, but is attractive due to the rock solid Honda reliability.

Dennis

jschwartz14

If according to your insurer the turbo aspect of the Mazdaspeed and the WRX is what is keeping your rates up then the Civic SI is probably a better way to go. It is as you probably know naturally aspirated 197hp engine. So the power weight ratio is more than adequate.

As for your question about the Fit, I seriously doubt it. The fit is seen more as a commuter car. Good gas mileage lots of cargo room and options but a sportier version is unlikey. They do have a Fit Sport model now but its about 112hp and has paddle shifters on the wheel. Nowhere near the power and handling of the SI.

good luck to you.
Jeremy

gogiboy

Jeremy--

I appreciate your insight and help. I'm very impressed with my current (94) Civic EX. It was purchased new back in 94. It has been rock solid thus far and everything still works after 13 years of use.

I'm fairly certain I'll get another Honda although I haven't completely ruled out the Mazdaspeed3. There is a dealer in my town for Honda, which is a plus for warranty work. I actually bought the 94 Civic locally, but that dealership has been sold and re sold several times and is now one of those screamer-ad dealerships with a sales staff that seemingly turns over monthly. as a result no one seems to have much in the way of product knowledge, instead they just want to know "what will get you into this car today". The dealership is so small that they never have much selection either.

I'm not in any rush and really need to weigh my needs vs. wants. I'd love to compare a Fit with my current Civic to see if I can live with the diminished HP and torque. I would definitely find the cargo space very useful and the mpg are slightly higher than my Civic. The SI sedan may be harder to justify from a strict utility sense, but I'm used to throwing my various bikes into the back of my current Civic. I'm also considering an 04/05 Acura TSX with under 30K miles plus warranty as another option--mostly for the improved noise insulation, and power seats. Again, any warranty work would have to be done in OKC or Tulsa, a 70-80 mile trip one way.

I think the insurance quote for the WRX was about a $300/year increase over the RAV4 (which we bought)and about $360/year more than the Honda CR-V. The real deficiency for me in the WRX was less cargo room and premium gas (a problem with the Acura and Mazdaspeed3). Now that we have the RAV (my wife's car) I'm trying to determine how important the "utility" aspect of my next car needs to be. I love that the Fit is so inexpensive, but I want a 5-seed manual so I guess availability and/or wait time may play a role. I'd willingly order one and wait if I could test drive something similar to make sure it's what I want. My local dealer does have an SI sedan--if it hasn't sold. I guess I'll see where Honda inventory is in May or June. Since my current Civic is running so well I can easily wait another year if nothing is available next summer. Patience is a virtue, right?

Gogiboy

thegraduate

Would a used Accord be too large of a car for you? Power seats, and practically all the features you are looking for (power seats, quieter, with better fuel mileage than a TSX - the TSX also needs Premium to run optimally, like the Subaru).

A 4-cylinder EX-Leather Accord with 30k miles has a blue book value of $17,720 - close to the price of a new Civic LX.

A 2005 Acura TSX Automatic with 30k miles blue-books for
$21,880 - about the TMV price of a new Accord EX cloth.

-----------------------

Just a thought...

gogiboy

thegraduate--

Yeah, I think the Accord is a little bigger than I want. My folks have one and I've driven their (99, I think)a number of times. They are nicely discounted these days.

For the reasons you state (price, premium gas) and no dealership for warranty work less than 70 miles away I'll almost certainly go with a Civic or Fit. I like to keep any financing to 2 years or less. I might even be able to do the Fit in 1 year.

Gogiboy

dwynne

No way would i pay that much for an Accord with 30k on the clock. You can get any model for invoice or less right now, and I would guess the factory incentives on Accords will start up in a month or two and drive prices even lower. Last year of the Accord current design, larger new Civic, new design Camry and other factors have slowed Accord sales so buying new is very attractive.

Dennis

dwynne

The Si requires premium, like the speed3 and the WRX.

You should look at the Scions as well. I love the xB - it is not much slower than a Fit and has gobs of room and the price for what you get is dirt cheap. There is no 07 xB and xA - they are building them until the end of this year (as 06 cars) then have replacements for them next year as 08 models. The xB is ranked 3rd in the CR rating of cars that hold value best (behind the Prius and Mini, the Civic is 10), the xA is 8th or so. If the xB replacement design does not look as good (and the new bb photos I have do not to me) then the xB with its 3 year model run could become stronger on resale than it is now.

Dennis

gogiboy

Dennis--

One of my friends just bought an xA back in the summer. I've looked it over up-close, but haven't driven it. I have to say i'm not enthusiastic about the style/proportions and too spartan plastic interior and much prefer the Fit I looked at briefly, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I actually like the design of the xB and tC. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm turned off by Scion's fixed pricing.

I'm probably less concerned about the premium fuel issue than I was when looking at the WRX in 2004 since we now have the RAV4 for cross-country jaunts and the AWD system is quite useful during this first winter storm. I'm guessing I'll only be putting 5-6K miles a year on my next vehicle. I could lease, but I'm one of those bums who hang onto cars forever and despise loan payments. I do love getting 30-36 mpg in my aging Civic on regular gas, however. I guess I just don't see myself as a premium fuel or luxury car guy.

If I was to get an Accord I would buy new. It's bigger than I want and I'm note excited by the current generation either. A nearby Honda dealership lists a 07 Accord EX w/cloth seats for $22,054 (I believe that includes dest. fee), which is roughly $1900 less than MSRP. No deep discounts on the Fit or Civic SI sedan or I might drive over.

Gogiboy

thegraduate

You can get any model for invoice or less right now

True, my dad was offered $1,000 under invoice on an Accord, or $500 under invoice on the Civic, and got blue book on his trade for either deal.

He went with the Civic, for something different.

dwynne

The fit is almost fixed price, the difference between invoice and MSRP on the Fit base is just $578 so even if you could get one for invoice you are not saving much.

I think compared to the xA at $13,360, the $14,445 would be worth the extra money to me. The xB is the one that I like - just love the funky style and the room and for $14,610 would be my choice for sure over the base Fit. Toss in a $200-300 cruise control and be ready to go.

I would predict the Fit will hold value well too - they are made by Honda, selling well w/o discounts, and not much room to discount them either. See the "trick" of depreciation is to buy cheap. The Accord is not on the top 10 list, but you can get one for invoice which makes it a "winner" in depreciation. When they compile the lists they look at MSRP or maybe what a lot of folks pay, not what WE pay

Dennis

ajbcho

Where are you guys located? I've been shopping around for an 07 Civic and got nowhere near invoice. Am I missing anything???

thegraduate

Birmingham, AL. Thing is, we had a trade in (2005 Accord EX, great condition, hi-mileage at 68,000). They gave us Blue Book Trade-in Value for it in "good" condition. One might could argure that it was "excellent" since it had NO door dings. Still, he got $12,275 for the trade, which is exactly Kelley Blue Book value.

In the $17,280 price of the car was the destination, mudgurads, and an application of "Xzylon," a wax/scotch guard stuff for the exterior and interior of the car. They showed us how it worked with a can of Lowe's spray paint on the hood of an S2000 in the showroom. Painted an X on the hood, let it dry, and it just wiped off.

All the cars had it, but we were willing to pay for it with the big problem of bugs in Alabama summers. Really, I guess we got more than $500 under invoice if you include the guards and the Xzylon, but if you consider our trade may have been worth a few hundered more than we got, I'd say it was a stellar deal overall.

The name of the dealership is Serra Honda in Hueytown, AL (a Birmingham suburb). We have dealt with them for over a decade.

hondaguy67

here is what you got.

$16,855 is invoice with destination. the environmental package they put on only cost the dealership at the most $200.00 and the splash guards less than $100.00

so if you take the 17,280 you paid and subtract the 300 maximum cost the dealer paid for the add ons, you ended up paying $125.00 over invoice for the car

still a very very good deal on a car that is not discounted very often.

mhattrup

gogiboy,

I went from a 99 Passat to a Civic Si coupe. The Passat had much less road noise and was fun to drive. The interior was very nice and rattle free but the reliability just isn't there. Hopefully the Si will be as good as my 86 Prelude Si and our 2000 Ody in that regard. The Si sedan should have pretty good utility as I found that the trunk on the coupe was able to handle my golf clubs and 3 wheel push cart better than the trunk of the Mazdaspeed 3. The Mazda seemed to be just a bit narrower if I recall correctly. The Si won't have the performance of the MS3 but if the FIT is a possibility then the Si's performance will keep you very happy.

I love driving the Si and find it difficult not to push it hard -one way to look at it is that the fun can last a second or two longer in the Si than in the MS3. That may sound kind of bogus but it's true the Si is very entertaining to drive and probably won't get you into as much trouble as the more powerful car might. The Si "feels" surprisingly responsive off the line (much better than I expected)based on it's test results. It also sounds fast which has a surprising impact on your perception of the car's performance. You will probably find the Si ride to be a littly jiggly over rougher roads but I actually have starte to like that. I almost have the sense I'm riding a really powerful animal with quick reflexes that can always be made to go just a bit faster... it's much more connected to the road than other cars I've owned. Its performance stats don't come close to the Legacy GT, the WRX, or the MS3 but it's still a FUN FUN car. Buy the Si Sedan - as for price my guess is you'd still be doing good to get it close to MSRP if you can. The best price I've heard of is $1500 over invoice but with the cold weather hitting business might soften and prices may come down a bit.

gogiboy

mhattrup--

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the SI coupe. I'm pretty confident I can get the SI Sedan for MSRP from Hondas of Bartlesville (north of Tulsa). They list all of their discounted prices next to the MSRP on their website. Their prices aren't the cheapest one might negotiate for, but they don't do add-ons or ADM or at least they didn't when the dealership was owned by Mark Roberts. It looks like the new owners are keeping the same sales approach.

Since I already have a 92 MR2 I need to decide whether I really need the extra Civic SI zip vs. the practical storage of the Fit. Not exactly cross-shopping similar stuff, am I?

There is a Fit Sport MT at one of the dealerships in Tulsa (if it's still there), but I'm not enthusiastic about driving over since we just got 12" of snow and, except for the main arteries, few of the roads have been properly cleared. Given the poor roads and cold temps I'd ordinarily say this would be a great weekend to look/buy, but I really doubt it would matter one bit with Fit pricing. I bet the dealers aren't happy to see their cars taken on test drives when it's as slushy and gross as the OK roads are right now.


Gogiboy

thegraduate

Civic EX Auto Invoice via Edmunds - $17,857 BEFORE Destination

Where'd you get the $16,855 number? LX Auto Invoice with destination is approx $16,811 per Edmunds. Maybe you got the LX numbers?

Just wondering what your source is.

bamacar

Serra gave me a lousy price quote of $19100 (only 200 off sticker) for a Civic EX Sedan manual transmission without tax or fees. Must be the long standing family connection for you.

thegraduate

Keep in mind our trade-in too. I have a feeling they'll make a ton on our trade (they gave us blue-book "good" when I'm not sure it couldn't get excellent since the car was immaculate). I imagine they'll sell the car they paid $12,275 for from us for something like $16k or $17k.

Our deal probably looks better on the surface than it really was given the high resale of Hondas, but either way, I was thrilled.

I've never heard of anyone dealing with their internet department before, so I don't know the history of it having a good or bad rep for deals.

By the way, though my folks didn't "haggle" on the price, my dad will walk on anything more than he was originally willing to pay. In this case, they undercut it by nearly $2,000 before he ever walked in to the dealership (quote done over the phone).

hondaguy67

sorry, I did not see you were talking about an EX.

thegraduate

It's ok, I kind of figured that since it wasn't listed in the post you replied to; just in the preceding ones.

Thanks for your input, regardless

bobw3

"Birmingham, AL. Thing is, we had a trade in (2005 Accord EX, great condition, hi-mileage at 68,000). They gave us Blue Book Trade-in Value for it in "good" condition. One might could argure that it was "excellent" since it had NO door dings. Still, he got $12,275 for the trade, which is exactly Kelley Blue Book value."

$17,690 is the KBB retail price for a 2005 Accord EX with 68,000 miles Excellent condition. The dealer just made $5400 off you for the trade-in, so even if they gave you $1000 below invoice, they're still making over $3000 on the deal. You could have probably made at least $14,000 by selling it consignment on a used car lot, but this is how dealers make their profit and satisfy the seller of a new car at the same time!

thegraduate

Exactly; I knew they made a profit (don't they always, eh?) Regardless, there was no hassle; all numbers were worked out over the phone, dad got a fair price for his car (kbb trade-in), and got a better price on his new one.

Nobody in this household has the time to sell a car through a paper or anything like that, and it was worth the cost to him just to trade the car in.

Everybody's happy (dad never expected to do this well sicne Civics are still popular). Now THERE'S a nice car deal!

bobw3

Right...my only point is that it's not a big deal paying under invoice for a car when the dealer is making thousands on the trade-in. Now if someone is financing a car themselves, not doing a trade-in and they pay less than invoice, then that's a good deal.

So if you're basically paying cash for a car and end up paying a few hundred over invoice, then don't feel too bad. Like I said there are ways other than a newspaper for selling used cars. Most smaller used car dealers will sell the car for you on their lot for a percentage of the selling price, which is still a lot better than the trade-in price.

It wasn't in your case, but it just seems funny to me that some people will spend a lot of time going to different dealers, sending faxes for price quotes, haggling over the selling price, just to save a few hundred dollars, and then lose thousands on their trade-in without spending an hour doing looking into some methods for selling it themselves. But for you everything was pretty simple and you're satisfied with the result, so that's good.

I just bought a Fit and paid MSRP and some people think that it's crazy to pay MSPR for a car, even though I pointed out to them that the difference between invoice and MSRP is only about $600. I had a high mileaage '99 Mercury Cougar that they offered me $1800, which I sold myself for $4000, so the $2200 difference more than makes up for paying MSPR. With the Fit in such high demand there really is no way around paying MSRP or negotiations, but if I were buying a Civic I'm sure that with every dollar reduced in the selling price of the Civic, there would be an equal reduction in what I'd get on the trade-in.

For me it was worth spending the several hours total it took over the two week period to sell the car to make over $2000. If I calculated my time spent to sell the car, I made about $400/hour.

isellhondas

bottgers,

I don't know where you live but around here that Civic would have been snapped up at his asking price ten minutes after he parked it.

The expensive timing belt/water pump job has been done and that car will easily go another 100,000 miles and more.

What is hurting the car is the five speed. The majority of shoppers won't buy one.

Cars like that will bring over book prices all the time!

saleem

I got a quote from Open Road Honda in NJ for a Civic LX Sedan, Auto for car+destination = $17,300. I'm confident I can get him to $17,100. Thats only including destination. Is that a good price? If I was going for a similar EX, would I add about $1500? (The upgrade costs $1750 or so I think). Thanks all!

psy

gogiboy

If your dead set on a SI Sedan Honda of Bartlesville is a good dealer. I purchased a 05 Accord EX Sedan I4, 5AT for $300 under invoice in may of 05. And then a 06 Civic EX Sedan 5MT, w/Navi Thursday before Christmas 05 for $400 over invoice.

When I bought the Civic Sedan,, I really wanted the first SI Coupe they got in. But I wont pay MSRP for any car. Just wont do it. Don't care if the goose that lays golden eggs is in the glove box.

They have addressed about 85% of our warranty concerns. A dealer in Tulsa did some work on my Civic. But Honda and the dealer wouldn't do anything about a few concerns on the Accord.

If I continue to purchase Hondas. I will just go to the Bartlesville dealer and be done with it. The Tulsa dealers want to play everybody for a southside sucker. Or a LA transplant. They know what the cars sell for 50 miles up the road. So you basicly have to get evil with them to give you a fare deal.

Good Luck with your deal

psy

mhattrup

Honda is about the only car I would pay upto or over MSRP on. When we bought our 2000 Ody there were wait lists everywhere and the dealerships were getting well over MSRP. I got them to drop down to $600 over MSRP and was happy, because compared to similarly equiped rigs from Toyota and the Chrysler the Ody at MSRP plus was still a good deal.

With regard to not paying for MSRP for the Si why deny yourself one of the best daily grin generators I've ever driven. I'm guessing the resale on the Si will be very strong down the road so that intial purchase price may not end up being that important. Life's too short to limit the daily fun factor over the next 5-7 years just because you don't want to pay a few hundred more. Look at it as $1/day unlimited carnival ride that you pay for every day for 2-3 years. After the 2-3 year period then you own the ride:-)

hondaguy67

I could not agree more with your post. The Civic SI is in huge demand and dealers are not wanting to discount them at all. Does this mean you should not buy one? of course not!!!!! why would a couple hundred or so effect your decision to buy one? The SI is probably worth more than MSRP, those that have driven one will most likely attest the same thing.

dwynne

I would never pay over MSRP for any car, to do so just makes you a "sucker" IMHO. I would also not support dealers who charge extra for a popular model "just because you can". Find an honest dealer who charges MSRP when others are gouging prices and show your support by purchasing from them. Odds are good that later on they will be able to offer you good prices on other cars/trucks as well.

Some of the local dealers tried to gouge on the S2000 prices when those came out (even to those with deposit for cars at MSRP), later when sales have cooled and now gone cold they still don't want to negotiate on the S2000 nor do they participate in the lease specials on it (which call from them to discount the car). The net result is I got mine from an out of town dealer for below invoice. Even if I had to pay more, the "principle of the thing" would not let me give my money to dealers that ripped folks off.

If paying cash, then you can afford to buy now for MSRP . If financing, then look at how much or little getting a nice discount could cost you and decide if you have to have it now or not. The same is true for trying to get the last little bit out of a deal - you want the dealer to drop the price $200-300 and then you will buy. If you have cash for a new car, that is chump change. If you have good credit and are financing at a low rate, it does not add a lot to the payment.

A guy I know once took hours and hours (nearly all day) to finish a deal on a new pickup truck. He could not do the deal unless they included a stereo (GMC base models at that time came with none). He got his way, they put in one of those "Kraco" specials that probably cost them $29 installed or something. I told him for the time he spent trying to get the stereo he could have worked a minimum wage job and PAID for a nicer stereo! You have to keep all this in perspective

Dennis

isellhondas

A question for you guys who won't pay over MSRP...

There are some used cars that literally break the bank. They sell for well over retail book. A couple of examples would be Civic Hatchbacks and 1990-1993 Accords.

Here's my question...

Suppose you owned a pristine low mileage 1993 Accord SE.

The books say it's worth 3000.00 but it's a 4500-5000 car all day long. Just picking numbers out of the air here.

Would you stick by what the "books" say or would you ask whatever the market value is?

Just curious...

hondaguy67

whyy on earth would someone be called a sucker for paying over MSRP? take the fir for example. MSRP is only 600-800 dollars over invoice. Is your comment supposwe to mean that a dealer is not suppose to make a profit? should dealers become not for profit orgs?

I am a bit confused.

The car business is just like any other business. supply and demand dictate price. the "gouging" as you call it is bogus. Dealers routinely give huge discounts on cars that are not in high demand or that there are too many of. I do not blame a dealer one bit for trying to make up for some of that lost revenue

isellhondas

Manufactures "suggested" retail price.

These reflect what the manufacturer thinks the car should sell for. Some cars sell for more and others (most) for less.

The MARKET determines what cars sell for. Just like houses or anything else.

kyfdx

Yes.... but the market for milk, eggs, gasoline or other consumables is different... You have to pay what the market will bear, because you need those things right now..

History will show that automobile buyers who had to be the first one on their block to buy the new XYZ Supermobile, and paid a premium to do so, will look pretty silly in a year when they are selling for $3K under sticker..

Usually... no one has to buy a car "right now"... or, is even stuck buying a certain model.. Buying any car that is selling for over MSRP, even if that is what the market will bear at that time, is usually a poor financial decision.. (for the buyer, at least.. )

regards,
kyfdx

isellhondas

They are happy with the price they paid. If they are happy, they aren't "suckers".

A customer of mine recently paid 10,000 over MSRP for a Z06 Corvette. Most people are paying more but we know management at a local Chevy dealer and we helped him out.

Is he a sucker? Did he get ripped off?

No, he paid the MARKET VALUE for a car he really wanted!

kyfdx

Well.... in my opinion.. he is still a sucker... But, I'm glad he is happy..

I have a co-worker (stop me if you've heard this story...no? well, then..here goes) who got the first GTO in town.. January of '04.. Paid MSRP.. He was very, very happy....

Now... not so much..

Don't get me wrong... The Civic SI, Fit, Yaris, Scion xA.. there isn't much spread there between invoice and MSRP.. nothing wrong with MSRP as the price (though less is better)..

$10K+ over MSRP for a Z06? $3K over MSRP for a Prius? That is just a bad deal..

So.. they are happy? Well... ignorance is bliss.

regards,
kyfdx

mhattrup

Well I guess I'm a sucker because I paid $600 over MSRP for the 2000 Ody but saved about $1800 from the comparably equipped Toyota which was the only other option on the market that I would consider buying at the time. This sucker has also paid $400 over invoice on my 99 Passat when most dealers were selling them for $1200 over invoice or full MSRP. My point is even savvy car buyers sometimes can't overcome demand and the free market even if your willing to go out of town (Passat was 200 miles from home - the Ody met a price from an out of town dealer).

Now if your into self denial and are unable to make yourself feel like your not getting robbed if you aren't paying under MSRP then I guess anyone who can is a SUCKER. But those suckers will be out enjoying their cars for 6 months to a year while those who can't sit at home counting their pennies waiting for demand and supply to even out. Six months of driving enjoyment is worth something I think.

If your buying something with lower demand or more likely ample supply then it's easy to get below invoice but your probably going to get less on your resale so it will most likely come out in the wash. Maybe not all of the premium but some of it.

I think Honda in particular tends to price it's rigs below mkt value as compared to the competition and lets it's dealers be the bad guys for charging prices closer to the competition. The reality is the Si is worth it's MSRP when compared to similarly equiped cars from some of its competitors.

Now if you go in and pay $3K or $5K over MSRP (which the dealers I was looking at were asking) on an Si THEN you are a SUCKER. But if your getting it for MSRP or close to it then right now that's an OK price. As soon as the dealers start putting them Si's or other models in the Costco (or similar programs) you'll know demand has dropped enough that MSRP isn't a good deal anymore. Many cars are in those programs as soon as they hit the market - my guess is the non Si Civics are in those programs simply because the supply is up.

isellhondas

As expected.

dwynne

Yep, you are a sucker if you pay over MSRP. As kyfdx says unless you just HAD TO HAVE a car on that day then you could have easily waited and saved tons of money. You had to be the first with the new model so you overpay. The sooner everyone calms down and refuses to pay too much the sooner everyone will be paying less. Like those nuts on fleabay paying $1k+ plus for a PS3 - give me a break.

And I still say - don't do business with a gouging dealer, now or in the future. If they are wanting to stick to it the buyer when they can, the heck with them. I could not even get a test drive from the local Mazda stealer when the RX-8 came out (I was driving an M5 and an S2000 at the time, so they knew I could afford an 8). When I did buy an 8 later, you can bet it was not from them.

Your new car was likely a want and not a need, so overpaying for that is just silly - no matter how much a comparable car costs. If you can't get it for a good price, just wait until you can. To do otherwise just validates the stealer overcharging. Heck, one local Toyota place was jacking up Prius prices by $3k-5k a while back - and folks would fly in and drive them home.

Dennis

dwynne

I do not blame a dealer one bit for trying to make up for some of that lost revenue

You either work for a car dealer or really are a sucker. If the latter, let me "help" you with your next car purchase. I am sure I can find a deal the dealer will love and I can make several thousand off of - and you will not blame the dealer or me "one bit" for it

Dennis

dwynne

Just picking numbers out of the air here.

See, that may be why you did not get an answer.

The difference is the dealer is selling a new car as a franchise of the manufacturer. Selling at MSRP along with hold back should generate plenty of profit for a single new car transaction. Heck, some dealers always sell below MSRP, treat their customers well, and are still in business. If the dealer feels the need to gouge folks "just because they can" then so be it - but they will never have any business from me.

A used car is just a used car - and really is open to what the market will bear. The "book" value depends on who has the book. The ones the dealers use always give the lowest possible values so not surprising if something is worth more than the dealer's "book".

As a salesperson I am sure you hate folks who know what something is worth, will not overpay, and will not accept peanuts for a trade. For sure you hate folks like kyfdx and other here who will not get all emotional over a car purchase and just "have to have it" right now. Heck, with enough patience you can even get a discount on a Scion

Dennis

qbrozen

Dwynned mostly covered it.

I would only expand on a point he made and ask you, what book are you referring to?

I'm not sure I know of a book that accounts for "pristine low mileage."

Here's the thing ... the market is what the market is. I will never pay over MSRP, just like I refused to pay over asking price on a home when it was a seller's market to the extreme. If someone else wants to pay over MSRP, that's their problem, I am under no obligation to play that game.

But, personally, I don't blame dealers for demanding more than MSRP, I just won't buy there.

isellhondas

I don't hate anybody and informed customers make my job easier.

I just wish people wouldn't use the term "sucker" when someone wants a car bad enough to pay over MSRP for a high demand low supply car.

I wouldn't either but I don't knock the people who do. It is their choice, their money and their life.

I used that 1993 Accord as an example. If Kelly Blue Book or NADA says it's worth, say, 3000.00 that would be about the same as a Monroney sticker on a new car.

But, I'll be willing to bet,if the MARKET VALUE of that Accord was, say, 5000.00 you would probably be trying to get that for it. Right?

A lot of people wouldn't buy it but someone looking for that extra special Accord would and they sure wouldn't be a "sucker" for doing so!

kyfdx

There is a difference.. That 1993 Accord has been around for 14 years.... It is a proven commodity that has a fairly stable market value... The supply isn't artificially constrained by the capacity of a factory.

It isn't worth $5K because everyone has to have the latest/greatest 1993 Accord... It is $5K because it has proven to be a comparable value to other $5K used cars. After 14 years, the buying public isn't going to suddenly wake up tomorrow and realize that a 1993 Accord isn't all it's cracked up to be...

Remember the T-Bird, GTO, etc, etc, etc..? Happy or not, the people that paid $5K over MSRP got taken...

Even if we don't label them as suckers, they still got a very bad deal..

isellhondas

I was referring to "books" in a generic fashion.

" the market is what the market is" - exactly!

" I just won't buy there" - Understood but you might be a non-owner if that paticular car is red hot and in short supply. Someone else will feel it's value (to them)and buy it. I probably wouldn't buy it either since a car is just a car to me for the most part.

I decided to go to KBB.com and enter a 1993 Accord SE using 65,000 miles. There is no way to enter "pristine low miles" but there is an "excellent" catagory. Using my zip code it spit out a retail value of 6395.00. that's higher than I thought it would be but probably 2000.00 less than that car could easily bring. That would be an 8000-9000 car all day long.

Out of curosity, I then entered a 1993 Cadillac Sedan De Ville. Same miles, same condition and it said 6135.00.

Funny how some cars depreciate much faster than others!

isellhondas

Actually, I agree, they got taken. But that is your opinion and mine too. They no doubt, KNEW that would happen when they bought those cars but they were comfortable doing the deal at the time.

Not what I would do, but we are all different.

PT Cruisers are probably the best example of that!

qbrozen

HUH??? $8-$9k for a 14-year-old Accord? No way no how! I don't care how pristine it is, that car is NOT getting that kind of money on the open market. I see '01 CERTIFIED EXs on honda's website with 60k miles for $12k asking price.

kyfdx

Well.. the '93 model is a special case.... last year for that body style, and airbags instead of motorized seat belts..

But, I don't see $8K for it... Around where I live, $5500-$6K for a pristine example....

But, given all the years of road salt.. I never see pristine examples... :surprise: