Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

I've seen a lot of cars on the roadside pf the interstates in this cold weather these last few days.
More cars than usual. It's life-threatening dangerous if your car gives out when it's 5 below 0 deg F. One was a Mercedes. Wonder if it was a diesel.

I've notices over the months several Neons and their clones on the road that are in good physical shape. They look like they'd belonged to someone who garaged them and maybe hadn't driven them a lot, but finally sold or traded the cars.
But today I saw on on I75 under a blanket of snow that looked great but apparently suffered some problem.

I always think of Andres when is see one of these.

In this part of the country the MB bio-diesel conversions really have a problem with the cold weather. I don't think you can add kerosene to veggie oil.


As far as Neons are concerned the wife's car which is a Neon underneath has performed well in the cold weather. Build quality stinks but it runs.

The bio-diesel conversions are supposed to have pre-heaters for cold weather.

cdnpinhead

ab348 said:

Given the fact that modern cars all have screens in the dash, I am having a hard time understanding why a code reader is required at all. Surely the software powering it could be made to display and respond in the car without an external device.

You're absolutely right, but the service departments would lose out, so it'll never happen.

Mr_Shiftright

Most owners wouldn't know what to do with it.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most owners wouldn't know what to do with it.

BMW and Mini both have hidden service menus that can be accessed without a scan tool. And while I agree that manufacturers have a vested interest in not making their service info available in every car, I can see why it wouldn't be advisable to make some functions available such as module coding and resetting adaptations.

driver100

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most owners wouldn't know what to do with it.

I can see why it wouldn't be advisable to make some functions available such as module coding and resetting adaptations.

I don't think novices should try this at home - on their own vehicles. Not for the faint of heart, what is that saying about a little knowledge being a bad thing.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

You have to study the picture carefully:

I showed that to my wife and she's still laughing.

jmonroe

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most owners wouldn't know what to do with it.

BMW and Mini both have hidden service menus that can be accessed without a scan tool. And while I agree that manufacturers have a vested interest in not making their service info available in every car, I can see why it wouldn't be advisable to make some functions available such as module coding and resetting adaptations.

That's right, and besides that, no onboard diagnostic tool is going to tell the owner exactly what's wrong anyway.

Every diagnostic tool is only as good as the person operating it. So I could see owners and technicians getting into debates on how to interpret the readings. "It says 02 sensor out of range. Why did you replace my fuel injectors!"

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

I broke down and bought a scan tool for my BMWs and Minis. The Mini needs a new battery and the tool will let me register the battery without the need of a trip to the dealer or indie shop. Since most shops charge .05-1.0 hours for the procedure the tool will pay for itself with one use- plus it will perform some thorough diagnostics. The word on the BMW and Mini boards is that it's the next best thing to having INPA diagnostic software, and it is supposedly much easier to use.

Could you educate me on what is involved in registering a battery and what that means?

I think it means if the bride registered asking for a new battery they will send her one.

LONG ANSWER:

"After installing a new battery, the service function ‘Register battery replacement’ must be run. The registration of the battery replacement is required to inform the power management (software in engine electronics and intelligent battery sensor) that a new battery was installed in the vehicle. If the battery replacement is not registered, the power management will not function properly and can lead to functions being limited by individual electrical consumers being switched off or having their power consumption reduced. Power management will charge the new battery as if it’s the old worn out battery, causing premature failure of the replacement battery."

SHORT ANSWER: It's a German car so everything has to be harder.

The battery registration issue can be justified from a theoretical engineering standpoint, but the real world advantage has yet to be established. It's not a difficult procedure but you either need the proper equipment to register it or else pay a dealer or indie shop to do it. Like I said, once I perform one or two registrations the scan tool is paid for- and anyway, I think that the tool is pretty inexpensive considering all that it can do:

Works on BMW models from 1987-current*; Works on MINI models from 2002-current*
Compatible with global OBDII / EOBD standards
Reads and clears codes and turns off SES/CEL/MIL/DTC (BMW Powertrain codes, Chassis codes, Body codes, and CAN codes)
Special troubleshooting functions to walk you through codes (like the BMW Test Plan)
Check and activate electronic components like switches, relays, and actuators
Records live sensor data
Provides live data graphing
Merges graphs for easy and intuitive diagnosis
Displays freeze frame data
Create a custom data stream
Reads and resets most adaptations
Reads OBD Readiness
Does active tests on systems and components
Performs special functions, coding, security access
Code and program replacement control units
Supports all 10 OBDII test modes
Resets oil service light
Sets inspection 1, 2 service intervals (manual or automatic)
Sets inspection mileage
Deactivates and reactivates brake control system
Retracts calipers for brake pad replacement on newer models
Initializes the wear indicator if new pads installed
Diagnoses Electronic Parking Brake caliper functionality
Multilingual menu options and code definitions
Memory card for data backup and software update
Print feature
Large TFT color screen and menu-driven operations
Free life time updates

Wow! You just talked me out of ever buying a BMW.

Here's what the Ford version of the same tool can do:

Read and erase Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) from most (if not all) electronically controlled systems, including Engine, ABS, Airbag, Automatic Transmission, Immobiliser and Climate Control
Turns off dashboard warning lights
Displays fault code definitions on-screen (where available)
Displays live sensor data
Displays live data graphs, including graph merging
Resets oil service indicator
Performs Electronic Parking Brake service functions
Performs bi-directional component actuations - manually operating components on the car to test their function
Offers module coding support
Reads and Erases engine fault codes on OBDII /EOBD compliant cars (all* 2001+ gasoline cars and 2004+ diesel cars)
Display live engine sensor data on OBDII /EOBD compliant cars
Multilingual menu options and code definitions
2.8 inch backlit colour LCD display
No batteries required - powered from the car's diagnostic port
FREE Lifetime Software Updates after registration

No modern car can be properly diagnosed or serviced with a $20 generic scanner.

In my modern car I just take it to the shop. Let them figure it out.

Maybe you convinced me not to buy any other modern cars too.

So will we be seeing you on bicycle forums on the future?

Of course not but I will be sticking with the older models.



Looks good in black,eh?

Mr_Shiftright

How much horsepower you got in that thing? Oh, wait.......

jmonroe

cdnpinhead said:

jmonroe said:

I'm convinced now more than ever that the cold had something to do with this. So I have to test it again. I'm going to leave the car out overnight to see if the problem can be repeated tomorrow morning. So I still might have to ask to borrow your thingy.

My money's on marginally low brake fluid that registers okay on the float when it's warm but goes over the limit in the extreme cold when the fluid contracts.

I should have said that I checked the fluid level first and it was OK. If it wasn't, that would have scared the hell out of me because brake fluid is not a consumable item. But, it is nice to know that sharp minds think alike.

FWIW, everything is OK this morning after sitting out all night. It wasn't minus 6 but still pretty damn cold.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I broke down and bought a scan tool for my BMWs and Minis. The Mini needs a new battery and the tool will let me register the battery without the need of a trip to the dealer or indie shop. Since most shops charge .05-1.0 hours for the procedure the tool will pay for itself with one use- plus it will perform some thorough diagnostics. The word on the BMW and Mini boards is that it's the next best thing to having INPA diagnostic software, and it is supposedly much easier to use.

Could you educate me on what is involved in registering a battery and what that means?

I think it means if the bride registered asking for a new battery they will send her one.

LONG ANSWER: "After installing a new battery, the service function ‘Register battery replacement’ must be run. The registration of the battery replacement is required to inform the power management (software in engine electronics and intelligent battery sensor) that a new battery was installed in the vehicle. If the battery replacement is not registered, the power management will not function properly and can lead to functions being limited by individual electrical consumers being switched off or having their power consumption reduced. Power management will charge the new battery as if it’s the old worn out battery, causing premature failure of the replacement battery." SHORT ANSWER: It's a German car so everything has to be harder.

The battery registration issue can be justified from a theoretical engineering standpoint, but the real world advantage has yet to be established. It's not a difficult procedure but you either need the proper equipment to register it or else pay a dealer or indie shop to do it. Like I said, once I perform one or two registrations the scan tool is paid for- and anyway, I think that the tool is pretty inexpensive considering all that it can do: Works on BMW models from 1987-current*; Works on MINI models from 2002-current* Compatible with global OBDII / EOBD standards Reads and clears codes and turns off SES/CEL/MIL/DTC (BMW Powertrain codes, Chassis codes, Body codes, and CAN codes) Special troubleshooting functions to walk you through codes (like the BMW Test Plan) Check and activate electronic components like switches, relays, and actuators Records live sensor data Provides live data graphing Merges graphs for easy and intuitive diagnosis Displays freeze frame data Create a custom data stream Reads and resets most adaptations Reads OBD Readiness Does active tests on systems and components Performs special functions, coding, security access Code and program replacement control units Supports all 10 OBDII test modes Resets oil service light Sets inspection 1, 2 service intervals (manual or automatic) Sets inspection mileage Deactivates and reactivates brake control system Retracts calipers for brake pad replacement on newer models Initializes the wear indicator if new pads installed Diagnoses Electronic Parking Brake caliper functionality Multilingual menu options and code definitions Memory card for data backup and software update Print feature Large TFT color screen and menu-driven operations Free life time updates

Wow! You just talked me out of ever buying a BMW.

Here's what the Ford version of the same tool can do: Read and erase Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) from most (if not all) electronically controlled systems, including Engine, ABS, Airbag, Automatic Transmission, Immobiliser and Climate Control Turns off dashboard warning lights Displays fault code definitions on-screen (where available) Displays live sensor data Displays live data graphs, including graph merging Resets oil service indicator Performs Electronic Parking Brake service functions Performs bi-directional component actuations - manually operating components on the car to test their function Offers module coding support Reads and Erases engine fault codes on OBDII /EOBD compliant cars (all* 2001+ gasoline cars and 2004+ diesel cars) Display live engine sensor data on OBDII /EOBD compliant cars Multilingual menu options and code definitions 2.8 inch backlit colour LCD display No batteries required - powered from the car's diagnostic port FREE Lifetime Software Updates after registration No modern car can be properly diagnosed or serviced with a $20 generic scanner.

In my modern car I just take it to the shop. Let them figure it out. Maybe you convinced me not to buy any other modern cars too.

So will we be seeing you on bicycle forums on the future?

Of course not but I will be sticking with the older models. Looks good in black,eh?

Ah, I see, your going all Amish on us, or just moving to Mackinac island?

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

You have to study the picture carefully:

I showed that to my wife and she's still laughing.

When I first showed this to Mrs. j she saw what the Minnesota woman saw. Then she quickly saw the real pic and said, "OH, I get it now".

For a second there, I thought she had a twin in Minnesota. WHEW.

jmonroe

venture

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I agree about the answer. I have learned not to even argue with most of them because it doesn't do any good. I just smile. I try not to laugh out loud because it makes them mad.

Like when the girl said to make sure I change the oil in my Legacy every 3,000 miles. - which reminds me...I did do the 1st oil change on the Legacy at 3,000, but I do that with all my new cars. The same girl insisted that I have the tires rotated. I declined the offer. I'll get it the next time.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

But, this is what I am wondering.....something is wrong with your car. You use the code scanner device, and it tells you what isn't working properly. Now, what do you do? I would take it to the dealer to get it fixed, but, if I took it there in the first place they would have found the problem and fixed it.

I guess this way I may know how expensive the repair will be and either have it done now or save up to have it done later.

Personally, I fix the problem myself. ;b

qbrozen

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I would HOPE, and I could be totally wrong, they meant to say "that is common when it is really cold out AND you have a weak battery." I seem to recall being told once upon a time that the factory remote start would not function if any of the system checks were not met beforehand, including enough juice.

jmonroe

venture said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I agree about the answer. I have learned not to even argue with most of them because it doesn't do any good. I just smile. I try not to laugh out loud because it makes them mad.

Like when the girl said to make sure I change the oil in my Legacy every 3,000 miles. - which reminds me...I did do the 1st oil change on the Legacy at 3,000, but I do that with all my new cars. The same girl insisted that I have the tires rotated. I declined the offer. I'll get it the next time.

I don't argue with service advisors either, anymore, but I'll let them know I'm not going to be coned either. They know when they are wrong but they'll never admit it nor do I expect them to. I'm just hoping that I won't have to hear their BS the next time. But, by then they are more than likely gone anyhow, so you are almost faced with teaching another crew about what not to say. Just about useless but I can only listen to so much BS before I erupt.

I told this tale back on SFTSFL many years ago but it deserves repeating since we are on the subject again. This was the result of a service advisor telling me why the mechanic didn't do a bad job tuning up my '66 Bonneville (that alone tells you how long ago this happened). The only reason I had them do the tune up is because I was still living in an apartment and I had to take the car in for warranty work anyway.

Here is the discussion as best as I can remember it:

Advisor: I'm sure the points are set correctly and the spark plug gap is correct too. We had one of our best mechanics work on your car. So I don't know why you are here.

Me: No, they are wrong because I checked them myself and the timing is off 2 degrees too. So nothing was done correctly.

Advisor: Well, Mr. jmonroe you have to understand that those parts and settings change due to wear.

Me: It could not have worn that much in 2 weeks with only a couple hundred miles having been put on the car.

Advisor: Oh you'd be surprised.

Now I'm hot.

Me: Yes, I would be surprised and I'm surprised with everything that was done wrong on this tune up. Your guy did a lousy job. The plugs were probably taken right out of the box without setting them and the same goes with the points. As for the timing being off, if the mechanic didn't play with the distributor rotation I would have probably been better off with the way it was already set because unless something drastic happens like a chain going bad, you almost never have to touch the distributor.

The advisor was still sticking to his story and with every pathetic excuse I kept looking over my shoulder.

Finally he said:

Advisor: Mr. jmonroe you seem to be looking for someone. Are you expecting someone to pick you up while we take a look at you car?

Me: NO, I thought you were talking to the a-hole behind me but there isn't anyone there.

Yes, they finally tuned it up right but I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

This was not a rant, just my opinion about service advisors talking when they don't have to.

jmonroe

driver100

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

But, this is what I am wondering.....something is wrong with your car. You use the code scanner device, and it tells you what isn't working properly. Now, what do you do? I would take it to the dealer to get it fixed, but, if I took it there in the first place they would have found the problem and fixed it.

I guess this way I may know how expensive the repair will be and either have it done now or save up to have it done later.

Personally, I fix the problem myself. ;b

I think if it is a BMW, or MB, it is probably best to have a pro do the work....they are probably rigged to explode if repairs are attempted by DIYers.

cdnpinhead

jmonroe said:

I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

This is most certainly true. I can screw up something myself for free. Paying others to do it is a misery for sure.

Beyond regular oil changes, much/most of "scheduled maintenance" is a scam. Check your fluids, and keep them between the lines. Change as required, which isn't very often beyond the engine oil. On-condition maintenance is my system. Filters are easy and relatively cheap, as are oil changes. I'm willing to pay the independent garage for coolant/brake fluid/transmission oil changes, and they're generally pretty reasonable.

As I learned from my first wife, keeping alive has much to do with staying out of the hospital, unless things are really (really) screwed up. Same applies to cars, in my world.

imidazol97

jmonroe said:

The advisor was still sticking to his story and with every pathetic excuse I kept looking over my shoulder.

Finally he said:

Advisor: Mr. jmonroe you seem to be looking for someone. Are you expecting someone to pick you up while we take a look at you car?

Me: NO, I thought you were talking to the a-hole behind me but there isn't anyone there.
jmonroe

LOL. Priceless.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

I broke down and bought a scan tool for my BMWs and Minis. The Mini needs a new battery and the tool will let me register the battery without the need of a trip to the dealer or indie shop. Since most shops charge .05-1.0 hours for the procedure the tool will pay for itself with one use- plus it will perform some thorough diagnostics. The word on the BMW and Mini boards is that it's the next best thing to having INPA diagnostic software, and it is supposedly much easier to use.

Could you educate me on what is involved in registering a battery and what that means?

I think it means if the bride registered asking for a new battery they will send her one.

LONG ANSWER:

"After installing a new battery, the service function ‘Register battery replacement’ must be run. The registration of the battery replacement is required to inform the power management (software in engine electronics and intelligent battery sensor) that a new battery was installed in the vehicle. If the battery replacement is not registered, the power management will not function properly and can lead to functions being limited by individual electrical consumers being switched off or having their power consumption reduced. Power management will charge the new battery as if it’s the old worn out battery, causing premature failure of the replacement battery."

SHORT ANSWER: It's a German car so everything has to be harder.

The battery registration issue can be justified from a theoretical engineering standpoint, but the real world advantage has yet to be established. It's not a difficult procedure but you either need the proper equipment to register it or else pay a dealer or indie shop to do it. Like I said, once I perform one or two registrations the scan tool is paid for- and anyway, I think that the tool is pretty inexpensive considering all that it can do:

Works on BMW models from 1987-current*; Works on MINI models from 2002-current*
Compatible with global OBDII / EOBD standards
Reads and clears codes and turns off SES/CEL/MIL/DTC (BMW Powertrain codes, Chassis codes, Body codes, and CAN codes)
Special troubleshooting functions to walk you through codes (like the BMW Test Plan)
Check and activate electronic components like switches, relays, and actuators
Records live sensor data
Provides live data graphing
Merges graphs for easy and intuitive diagnosis
Displays freeze frame data
Create a custom data stream
Reads and resets most adaptations
Reads OBD Readiness
Does active tests on systems and components
Performs special functions, coding, security access
Code and program replacement control units
Supports all 10 OBDII test modes
Resets oil service light
Sets inspection 1, 2 service intervals (manual or automatic)
Sets inspection mileage
Deactivates and reactivates brake control system
Retracts calipers for brake pad replacement on newer models
Initializes the wear indicator if new pads installed
Diagnoses Electronic Parking Brake caliper functionality
Multilingual menu options and code definitions
Memory card for data backup and software update
Print feature
Large TFT color screen and menu-driven operations
Free life time updates

Wow! You just talked me out of ever buying a BMW.

Here's what the Ford version of the same tool can do:

Read and erase Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) from most (if not all) electronically controlled systems, including Engine, ABS, Airbag, Automatic Transmission, Immobiliser and Climate Control
Turns off dashboard warning lights
Displays fault code definitions on-screen (where available)
Displays live sensor data
Displays live data graphs, including graph merging
Resets oil service indicator
Performs Electronic Parking Brake service functions
Performs bi-directional component actuations - manually operating components on the car to test their function
Offers module coding support
Reads and Erases engine fault codes on OBDII /EOBD compliant cars (all* 2001+ gasoline cars and 2004+ diesel cars)
Display live engine sensor data on OBDII /EOBD compliant cars
Multilingual menu options and code definitions
2.8 inch backlit colour LCD display
No batteries required - powered from the car's diagnostic port
FREE Lifetime Software Updates after registration

No modern car can be properly diagnosed or serviced with a $20 generic scanner.

In my modern car I just take it to the shop. Let them figure it out.

Maybe you convinced me not to buy any other modern cars too.

So will we be seeing you on bicycle forums on the future?

Of course not but I will be sticking with the older models.



Looks good in black,eh?

Ah, I see, your going all Amish on us, or just moving to Mackinac island?

oldfarmer.......you mean it is so cold in upstate NY that you are going to buy a snuggly for your legs.....

pensfan83

The car never exploded but I did explode with frustration more than a few times with my first A4.

driver100

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

jmonroe

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

But, this is what I am wondering.....something is wrong with your car. You use the code scanner device, and it tells you what isn't working properly. Now, what do you do? I would take it to the dealer to get it fixed, but, if I took it there in the first place they would have found the problem and fixed it.

I guess this way I may know how expensive the repair will be and either have it done now or save up to have it done later.

Personally, I fix the problem myself. ;b

I'd fix it myself too. After all, if someone is going to spring for a tester, they are more than likely a DIY person. Our poster buddy @driver100 is not one of those so he probably can't understand us guys with dirty hands. I have AAA but I doubt that I'd call them to change a flat tire or even start my car if the battery went dead. I'd ask someone if they would jump start my car. It doesn't happen often but it has happened in the past.

I'll never forget the time a guy came over to me as my hood was up in a parking lot as I was looking at the battery to see if the connections were tight and not corroded. As usual they were fine but I needed a jump start. He said with a smile on his face, "looks like someone is going to be calling AAA. I hope you AAA". I said, "I'm glad you showed up. Can you give me a jump start". He said, "I would but I don't have jumper cables". I said, "I have a set in my trunk". He now has a strange look on his face and said, "Ah, ah, I have to pick someone up and I don't want to be late". Nice guy. No problem, as I'm closing the hood a guy comes over and asks if I needed help. He never mentioned AAA. I said, "just a jump if you don't mind". He said, "sure, I'll pull my car over and get my cables out". I told him I had cables and he said, "great, you'll be on your way in no time".

Us DIY guys understand each other.

jmonroe

roadburner

driver100 said:

But, this is what I am wondering.....something is wrong with your car. You use the code scanner device, and it tells you what isn't working properly. Now, what do you do? I would take it to the dealer to get it fixed, but, if I took it there in the first place they would have found the problem and fixed it.

I guess this way I may know how expensive the repair will be and either have it done now or save up to have it done later.

Again, it's not just a diagnostic tool; it lets me install some things such as batteries and modules that are dead simple to replace but still need registration or coding. Also, it prevents what a friend of mine refers to as "flailing"- throwing parts at a problem hoping one of the guesses fixes it. And, despite the fact that I have access to some very good dealers and shops, it lets me know what needs to be fixed and whether I want to perform the repair myself(usually I will).

roadburner

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I would HOPE, and I could be totally wrong, they meant to say "that is common when it is really cold out AND you have a weak battery." I seem to recall being told once upon a time that the factory remote start would not function if any of the system checks were not met beforehand, including enough juice.

The short-lived BMW remote start that was offered as a dealer installed option on the F10 5er and current(F15/16) X5 and X6 would do a lot of checks before it activated. For example, it would not work if a CEL or Low Fuel warning was illuminated.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

venture said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I agree about the answer. I have learned not to even argue with most of them because it doesn't do any good. I just smile. I try not to laugh out loud because it makes them mad.

Like when the girl said to make sure I change the oil in my Legacy every 3,000 miles. - which reminds me...I did do the 1st oil change on the Legacy at 3,000, but I do that with all my new cars. The same girl insisted that I have the tires rotated. I declined the offer. I'll get it the next time.

I don't argue with service advisors either, anymore, but I'll let them know I'm not going to be coned either. They know when they are wrong but they'll never admit it nor do I expect them to. I'm just hoping that I won't have to hear their BS the next time. But, by then they are more than likely gone anyhow, so you are almost faced with teaching another crew about what not to say. Just about useless but I can only listen to so much BS before I erupt.

I told this tale back on SFTSFL many years ago but it deserves repeating since we are on the subject again. This was the result of a service advisor telling me why the mechanic didn't do a bad job tuning up my '66 Bonneville (that alone tells you how long ago this happened). The only reason I had them do the tune up is because I was still living in an apartment and I had to take the car in for warranty work anyway.

Here is the discussion as best as I can remember it:

Advisor: I'm sure the points are set correctly and the spark plug gap is correct too. We had one of our best mechanics work on your car. So I don't know why you are here.

Me: No, they are wrong because I checked them myself and the timing is off 2 degrees too. So nothing was done correctly.

Advisor: Well, Mr. jmonroe you have to understand that those parts and settings change due to wear.

Me: It could not have worn that much in 2 weeks with only a couple hundred miles having been put on the car.

Advisor: Oh you'd be surprised.

Now I'm hot.

Me: Yes, I would be surprised and I'm surprised with everything that was done wrong on this tune up. Your guy did a lousy job. The plugs were probably taken right out of the box without setting them and the same goes with the points. As for the timing being off, if the mechanic didn't play with the distributor rotation I would have probably been better off with the way it was already set because unless something drastic happens like a chain going bad, you almost never have to touch the distributor.

The advisor was still sticking to his story and with every pathetic excuse I kept looking over my shoulder.

Finally he said:

Advisor: Mr. jmonroe you seem to be looking for someone. Are you expecting someone to pick you up while we take a look at you car?

Me: NO, I thought you were talking to the a-hole behind me but there isn't anyone there.

Yes, they finally tuned it up right but I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

This was not a rant, just my opinion about service advisors talking when they don't have to.

jmonroe

E

At least they didn't try to tell you that your rotors were warped because you didn't drive the car enough like the Chrysler service advisor.

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I agree about the answer. I have learned not to even argue with most of them because it doesn't do any good. I just smile. I try not to laugh out loud because it makes them mad.

Like when the girl said to make sure I change the oil in my Legacy every 3,000 miles. - which reminds me...I did do the 1st oil change on the Legacy at 3,000, but I do that with all my new cars. The same girl insisted that I have the tires rotated. I declined the offer. I'll get it the next time.

I don't argue with service advisors either, anymore, but I'll let them know I'm not going to be coned either. They know when they are wrong but they'll never admit it nor do I expect them to. I'm just hoping that I won't have to hear their BS the next time. But, by then they are more than likely gone anyhow, so you are almost faced with teaching another crew about what not to say. Just about useless but I can only listen to so much BS before I erupt.

I told this tale back on SFTSFL many years ago but it deserves repeating since we are on the subject again. This was the result of a service advisor telling me why the mechanic didn't do a bad job tuning up my '66 Bonneville (that alone tells you how long ago this happened). The only reason I had them do the tune up is because I was still living in an apartment and I had to take the car in for warranty work anyway.

Here is the discussion as best as I can remember it:

Advisor: I'm sure the points are set correctly and the spark plug gap is correct too. We had one of our best mechanics work on your car. So I don't know why you are here.

Me: No, they are wrong because I checked them myself and the timing is off 2 degrees too. So nothing was done correctly.

Advisor: Well, Mr. jmonroe you have to understand that those parts and settings change due to wear.

Me: It could not have worn that much in 2 weeks with only a couple hundred miles having been put on the car.

Advisor: Oh you'd be surprised.

Now I'm hot.

Me: Yes, I would be surprised and I'm surprised with everything that was done wrong on this tune up. Your guy did a lousy job. The plugs were probably taken right out of the box without setting them and the same goes with the points. As for the timing being off, if the mechanic didn't play with the distributor rotation I would have probably been better off with the way it was already set because unless something drastic happens like a chain going bad, you almost never have to touch the distributor.

The advisor was still sticking to his story and with every pathetic excuse I kept looking over my shoulder.

Finally he said:

Advisor: Mr. jmonroe you seem to be looking for someone. Are you expecting someone to pick you up while we take a look at you car?

Me: NO, I thought you were talking to the a-hole behind me but there isn't anyone there.

Yes, they finally tuned it up right but I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

This was not a rant, just my opinion about service advisors talking when they don't have to.

jmonroe

E

At least they didn't try to tell you that your rotors were warped because you didn't drive the car enough like the Chrysler service advisor.

Once when we had problems with our 95 Volvo one dealer said it would need front brake pads. They couldn't fix the stalling problem but the next dealer we tried told us we needed rear brake pads.

The fact neither could fix the stalling problem and their stories didn't match about the brakes made us distrust Volvos.

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

The bar ain't very high, but I learned how to cope....always have a car that is under warranty.

cdnpinhead

A carriage trade answer if there ever was one.

roadburner

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

But, this is what I am wondering.....something is wrong with your car. You use the code scanner device, and it tells you what isn't working properly. Now, what do you do? I would take it to the dealer to get it fixed, but, if I took it there in the first place they would have found the problem and fixed it.

I guess this way I may know how expensive the repair will be and either have it done now or save up to have it done later.

Personally, I fix the problem myself. ;b

I think if it is a BMW, or MB, it is probably best to have a pro do the work....they are probably rigged to explode if repairs are attempted by DIYers.

BMW sixes and fours aren't that hard to work on; the V8s and V12s are another story.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

The bar ain't very high, but I learned how to cope....always have a car that is under warranty.

And you have driven that point home many times. Nothing wrong with that but l'm just getting used to my cars when they are 4 years old.

jmonroe

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

A carriage trade answer if there ever was one.

You have to do what you have to do to survive in this world.

Actually, the C250 comes of warranty this month, but, with 20000 miles on it I'll risk it for awhile. It's like living without a safety net.

explorerx4

Came home from work today and the smoke detectors were blaring like they would in a real fire.
Didn't see or smell any smoke, but it was so loud I was getting a headache.
Shut off all the breakers except the furnace, but no difference.
Luckily, I found the bad one on the first try, so the rest quieted down.
Looked in the drawer and found some 5 year batteries, Great!
Put one in and it didn't seem right. It tested ok, but I noticed a 2017 expiration date on it, then it started chirping after a couple of minutes.
Ok, all my 'new' 9 volts are expired. Off to the store and find some new '5 year' batteries.
Maybe I should check the expiration date. It's 2020. Dug through some of the back rows and found some 2022's.
Overall, it's good to know how loud the smoke detectors can be, but I wasn't in the mood to deal with it after 10 hours at work, first work day of the year.

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

The bar ain't very high, but I learned how to cope....always have a car that is under warranty.

And you have driven that point home many times. Nothing wrong with that but l'm just getting used to my cars when they are 4 years old.

jmonroe

It takes you 4 years to learn how to drive your car?

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Came home from work today and the smoke detectors were blaring like they would in a real fire.

Maybe I should check the expiration date. It's 2020. Dug through some of the back rows and found some 2022's.
Overall, it's good to know how loud the smoke detectors can be, but I wasn't in the mood to deal with it after 10 hours at work, first work day of the year.

At least it went off during the day. Our bedroom one went off at 2 a.m. on Christmas day. Put a new alarm up last year and a 5 year battery last month. Had to be a faulty alarm. Ordered a new one that is the same for $12 and I just had to put the new one on the old bracket...so far so good.

They never go off at a great time though.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:

A carriage trade answer if there ever was one.

You have to do what you have to do to survive in this world.

Actually, the C250 comes of warranty this month, but, with 20000 miles on it I'll risk it for awhile. It's like living without a safety net.

Have you checked into buying an extended warranty from MB? It sounds on the net like as long as the car is still within the 4/48 warranty, you can purchase an extended warranty. Other owners may have knowledge to add here.

I did that with both used Chevrolets I purchased for my son to drive by purchasing an extended GM warranty from a dealer online who specializes in discounting and selling same. The first one more than paid for itself with things it covered before the time ran out. Both the Cobalt and Cruze purchases were what I consider cost effective in that if something's wrong the dealer handles it.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

The bar ain't very high, but I learned how to cope....always have a car that is under warranty.

And you have driven that point home many times. Nothing wrong with that but l'm just getting used to my cars when they are 4 years old.

jmonroe

It takes you 4 years to learn how to drive your car?

Not exactly.

One year for the driving it part but around 4 years to learn how the combination lock works for the glove compartment and how to get at the donut spare. :@

jmonroe

stickguy

ah, smoke detectors. A few years back I had one go bad, and they all went off. eventually found the culprit. Then off to lowes to buy a new batch (7 all together). Thankfully I did not have to replace the ceiling mount, just the flanges.

then over the last few weeks, had a couple decide to chirp for low battery (serves me right for using the cheapo EverReadys that came with). Always in the middle of the night. So this week, after the latest one, went around and found the rest of the old batteries and changed them in advance. So now back to peace and quiet. At least from the ceilings.

venture

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

I just came back from my Subaru dealer. The wife's Forester was hard to start this morning and the remote start would not work at all. She parks outside, for some reason, so that was not unexpected. I am having a new battery put in later today. This one is a little over 3 years old, but if I didn't replace it and it failed on her...well, you know the rest.

I mentioned to the service people about the remote start not working and they said that is common when it's really cold out. Huh? Isn't that why people get remote start? Cooling it a little in the summer is nice, but warming it up in the winter is much nicer. Crazy.

Oh. While I was there I bought a new car for $40k so I could save $7 with the oil change coupon they sent me. (Lie). Then I realized the coupon expires in a week. Man!

That is a pathetic answer. If I heard that I would have been in that service advisor's face so fast they would have thought I was an un-announced wind storm. :@

Again, a totally pathetic answer that should not have gone without a challenge.

jmonroe

I would HOPE, and I could be totally wrong, they meant to say "that is common when it is really cold out AND you have a weak battery." I seem to recall being told once upon a time that the factory remote start would not function if any of the system checks were not met beforehand, including enough juice.

That's exactly what I told my wife...after I told her what the service people said. I was talking to the General Sales manager and told him that story. He said he never heard of that before (what they originally told me). He proceeded to the service department. I don't know what he said to them, but they were awfully nice when we checked out.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:

A carriage trade answer if there ever was one.

You have to do what you have to do to survive in this world.

Actually, the C250 comes of warranty this month, but, with 20000 miles on it I'll risk it for awhile. It's like living without a safety net.

Have you checked into buying an extended warranty from MB? It sounds on the net like as long as the car is still within the 4/48 warranty, you can purchase an extended warranty. Other owners may have knowledge to add here.
.

The C250 is a 2014 which we bought last year, and it came with a 5 year warranty. I thought that meant 5 more years...which is a bit unbelievable, but it really means a TOTAL of 5 years from the day it was first sold.

My 2017 E400 is only driven for 7 months, so I could have about 30000 miles on it when the warranty is up after 4 years........I would consider keeping it past the warranty period....but, I have time to decide about that.....I still like the idea of spending my kids money (inheritance that is)..

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Came home from work today and the smoke detectors were blaring like they would in a real fire.
Didn't see or smell any smoke, but it was so loud I was getting a headache.
Shut off all the breakers except the furnace, but no difference.
Luckily, I found the bad one on the first try, so the rest quieted down.
Looked in the drawer and found some 5 year batteries, Great!
Put one in and it didn't seem right. It tested ok, but I noticed a 2017 expiration date on it, then it started chirping after a couple of minutes.
Ok, all my 'new' 9 volts are expired. Off to the store and find some new '5 year' batteries.
Maybe I should check the expiration date. It's 2020. Dug through some of the back rows and found some 2022's.
Overall, it's good to know how loud the smoke detectors can be, but I wasn't in the mood to deal with it after 10 hours at work, first work day of the year.

Our smoke detector is hard wired so no need for batteries but usually in late fall some little spider looking for a home gets into it and trips the darn thing off. We all scramble looking for the flames until mr. spider walks out of the beam. Yeah, loud.

stickguy

ours are hard wired too. They still have 9volt batteries as a back up for when the power goes out.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:

A carriage trade answer if there ever was one.

You have to do what you have to do to survive in this world.

Actually, the C250 comes of warranty this month, but, with 20000 miles on it I'll risk it for awhile. It's like living without a safety net.

Have you checked into buying an extended warranty from MB? It sounds on the net like as long as the car is still within the 4/48 warranty, you can purchase an extended warranty. Other owners may have knowledge to add here.
.

The C250 is a 2014 which we bought last year, and it came with a 5 year warranty. I thought that meant 5 more years...which is a bit unbelievable, but it really means a TOTAL of 5 years from the day it was first sold.

My 2017 E400 is only driven for 7 months, so I could have about 30000 miles on it when the warranty is up after 4 years........I would consider keeping it past the warranty period....but, I have time to decide about that.....I still like the idea of spending my kids money (inheritance that is)..

My Mustang will only have 12-15k miles on it when the 3/36 warranty expires in July. I always run out on time.

roadburner

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

isellhondas

I was thinking the same thing. Why would someone "register" a battery?

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

I broke down and bought a scan tool for my BMWs and Minis. The Mini needs a new battery and the tool will let me register the battery without the need of a trip to the dealer or indie shop. Since most shops charge .05-1.0 hours for the procedure the tool will pay for itself with one use- plus it will perform some thorough diagnostics. The word on the BMW and Mini boards is that it's the next best thing to having INPA diagnostic software, and it is supposedly much easier to use.

Could you educate me on what is involved in registering a battery and what that means?

I think it means if the bride registered asking for a new battery they will send her one.

LONG ANSWER:

"After installing a new battery, the service function ‘Register battery replacement’ must be run. The registration of the battery replacement is required to inform the power management (software in engine electronics and intelligent battery sensor) that a new battery was installed in the vehicle. If the battery replacement is not registered, the power management will not function properly and can lead to functions being limited by individual electrical consumers being switched off or having their power consumption reduced. Power management will charge the new battery as if it’s the old worn out battery, causing premature failure of the replacement battery."

SHORT ANSWER: It's a German car so everything has to be harder.

That is just amazing and not in a good way!

tjc78

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.