Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

I was thinking the same thing. Why would someone "register" a battery?

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

I broke down and bought a scan tool for my BMWs and Minis. The Mini needs a new battery and the tool will let me register the battery without the need of a trip to the dealer or indie shop. Since most shops charge .05-1.0 hours for the procedure the tool will pay for itself with one use- plus it will perform some thorough diagnostics. The word on the BMW and Mini boards is that it's the next best thing to having INPA diagnostic software, and it is supposedly much easier to use.

Could you educate me on what is involved in registering a battery and what that means?

I think it means if the bride registered asking for a new battery they will send her one.

LONG ANSWER:

"After installing a new battery, the service function ‘Register battery replacement’ must be run. The registration of the battery replacement is required to inform the power management (software in engine electronics and intelligent battery sensor) that a new battery was installed in the vehicle. If the battery replacement is not registered, the power management will not function properly and can lead to functions being limited by individual electrical consumers being switched off or having their power consumption reduced. Power management will charge the new battery as if it’s the old worn out battery, causing premature failure of the replacement battery."

SHORT ANSWER: It's a German car so everything has to be harder.

That is just amazing and not in a good way!

Didn't you buy a BMW that had the check engine light come on as you drove home? Maybe you didn't register your new bride and she was angry.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.

Regardless of economics leasing is attractive if you're driving a complex car prone to expensive repairs post-warranty or live in a climate that can trash a car in short order.

driver100

For my more Northerly Friends;

driver100

And......

driver100

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I would roughly figure your numbers are accurate RB. It does depend on a lot of variables though, you do a fair amount of work on the car yourself, if I remember right not too many miles a year, some savings because it was a CPO car to begin with, also you have been pretty lucky - no big expensive repairs that can be the luck of the draw. Also, $32000 savings is over 12 years.

I roughly figure driving a new car every 3 years will cost me $3000 to $7000 a year more depending on the cost of the car........an X3 will be about $4000 to $5000 more....just my rough figures.

$32000 is a nice chunk of change to have after 12 years, but, it depends on your priorities, driving a new car with a warranty and the latest features and not even thinking about maintenance is my priority, and it would be worth $4000 or $5000 a year for me to have the new car.

It just depends on what is important to each person.........

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.

Regardless of economics leasing is attractive if you're driving a complex car prone to expensive repairs post-warranty or live in a climate that can trash a car in short order.

My friend leased a Honda Fit for under $300 a month for 3 years. He can buy it back after 3 years for $9000. He got $4000 from insurance company for his 2005 Accord. He could use the $4000 to start a business and pay down his leased car, which he will buy back with less than 10000 miles on the odometer. Leasing made a lot of sense in his situation.

stickguy

Well, you get something for the money. A new car, modern features, latest tech and features. Etc.

Heck, you would save even more buying a 3 yo base model Malibu and driving it until it was 12. Cars are just appliances, right?

fintail

I've never heard a CPO vs leasing argument, but for some cars, an argument can be made vs buying new, especially high depreciation high maintenance cars.

Think of something like a 5er/E. I suspect the numbers work better for buying only after around 7 years or so - and then you're entering risk of more expensive repairs, along with driving an older car - so it isn't apples to apples. For 6 years (2 3-year leases) or less, I suspect leasing works better, as depreciation is steep, and leases are usually fairly subsidized. It all depends how long you want to drive the same car, and how you value driving a newer car. And as we know, the buy vs lease argument has probably been exhausted by now

abacomike

That arctic cold you northerners have been dealing with is going to cause havoc on the Florida peninsula starting tonight and will continue through Saturday.  Frost and freezing temps are expected to dessimate the citrus crops in northern and central Florida.

Temps are expected to drop into the 30’s during the night in the western areas of Broward and Palm Beach Counties.  For us, that’s very, very cold.  Highs only in the 50’s.  Brrrr.....  

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.

Regardless of economics leasing is attractive if you're driving a complex car prone to expensive repairs post-warranty or live in a climate that can trash a car in short order.

You hit one of the main reasons I won't by a car like an Audi, BMW and the like. I simply cannot see driving a car that you wouldn't own outside of a warranty. To me that's saying the car is unreliable. 

driver100

stickguy said:

Well, you get something for the money. A new car, modern features, latest tech and features. Etc.

Heck, you would save even more buying a 3 yo base model Malibu and driving it until it was 12. Cars are just appliances, right?

Yeh. like what is the objective:
a) Buy the cheapest form of transport possible to get from A to B
b) Buy a luxury/performance car and try to keep it going as long as possible
c) Buy a car that is practical and reliable, and keep it for 3, 5, or 10 years.
d) Buy a car you like - when you want to buy it....like Mike
e) Lease a car for whatever reason

There could be hundreds of possibilities........just depends on what your needs are and what you are trying to accomplish.

roadburner

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I would roughly figure your numbers are accurate RB. It does depend on a lot of variables though, you do a fair amount of work on the car yourself, if I remember right not too many miles a year, some savings because it was a CPO car to begin with, also you have been pretty lucky - no big expensive repairs that can be the luck of the draw. Also, $32000 savings is over 12 years.

I roughly figure driving a new car every 3 years will cost me $3000 to $7000 a year more depending on the cost of the car........an X3 will be about $4000 to $5000 more....just my rough figures.

$32000 is a nice chunk of change to have after 12 years, but, it depends on your priorities, driving a new car with a warranty and the latest features and not even thinking about maintenance is my priority, and it would be worth $4000 or $5000 a year for me to have the new car.

It just depends on what is important to each person.........

The only maintenance that I performed was oil changes in between the ones that the car called for; the car did need a new transfer case and front driveshaft- that wasn't inexpensive. As far as other hard parts, it needed a expansion tank at 130k and starter at 154K.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

For my more Northerly Friends;

I have a heart rate monitor that records your heart rate over time. Shoveling snow I'll peak at around 130 BPM, on my bike I'll average just over 140 in hill climbing I'll peak at just over 180. 

roadburner

stickguy said:

Well, you get something for the money. A new car, modern features, latest tech and features. Etc.

Heck, you would save even more buying a 3 yo base model Malibu and driving it until it was 12. Cars are just appliances, right?

But that would be extremely dangerous for me; I'd almost certainly die of boredom.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.

Regardless of economics leasing is attractive if you're driving a complex car prone to expensive repairs post-warranty or live in a climate that can trash a car in short order.

You hit one of the main reasons I won't by a car like an Audi, BMW and the like. I simply cannot see driving a car that you wouldn't own outside of a warranty. To me that's saying the car is unreliable

. 

That is one way of looking at it. I see it as you only live once, I want to enjoy the feeling of driving a car that has been superbly engineered (think masterpiece of art, Shakespeare, best actor, best whiskey, best pizza), and I am willing to pay for that privilege. If it was only about saving money or trying to be as practical as possible, I would buy a 3 year old Camry.

suydam

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.

Regardless of economics leasing is attractive if you're driving a complex car prone to expensive repairs post-warranty or live in a climate that can trash a car in short order.

My friend leased a Honda Fit for under $300 a month for 3 years. He can buy it back after 3 years for $9000. He got $4000 from insurance company for his 2005 Accord. He could use the $4000 to start a business and pay down his leased car, which he will buy back with less than 10000 miles on the odometer. Leasing made a lot of sense in his situation.

Yes, but he’s driving a Fit instead of a new Accord.
I actually did something similar. To help with finances when my daughter spent her year abroad in college, I sold my nearly new Mazda wagon and drove her old Toyota. When she came back I bought a used Pontiac Vibe and drove that for several years as a second car. At first I was ready to be practical and view it as basic transport. Wow did I come to hate that car. When I got the Encore I realized I can be practical but I have to have a little more luxe and enjoyment. at this stage of life.

ab348

driver100 said:

That is one way of looking at it. I see it as you only live once, I want to enjoy the feeling of driving a car that has been superbly engineered (think masterpiece of art, Shakespeare, best actor, best whiskey, best pizza), and I am willing to pay for that privilege. If it was only about saving money or trying to be as practical as possible, I would buy a 3 year old Camry.

These types of discussions seem to come here periodically and seldom make sense to me. If it was all about the most "sensible" financial decisions we would all be living in 800 sq ft tract homes, wearing a Timex, buying our clothes at Walmart or Goodwill, and driving used Corollas. Some people do and that's fine. But to imply that anyone who doesn't do that is doing something foolhardy really makes no sense. You can make the choices you want and manage the outcomes.

driver100

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I would roughly figure your numbers are accurate RB. It does depend on a lot of variables though, you do a fair amount of work on the car yourself, if I remember right not too many miles a year, some savings because it was a CPO car to begin with, also you have been pretty lucky - no big expensive repairs that can be the luck of the draw. Also, $32000 savings is over 12 years.

I roughly figure driving a new car every 3 years will cost me $3000 to $7000 a year more depending on the cost of the car........an X3 will be about $4000 to $5000 more....just my rough figures.

$32000 is a nice chunk of change to have after 12 years, but, it depends on your priorities, driving a new car with a warranty and the latest features and not even thinking about maintenance is my priority, and it would be worth $4000 or $5000 a year for me to have the new car.

It just depends on what is important to each person.........

The only maintenance that I performed was oil changes in between the ones that the car called for; the car did need a new transfer case and front driveshaft- that wasn't inexpensive. As far as other hard parts, it needed a expansion tank at 130k and starter at 154K.

And my 2004 X3 has almost 200000 miles on it with very little maintenance except the last I heard it now has 2WD instead of AWD. My friend/neighbor in Florida has a 1986 BMW he bought in Germany and brought back....still rides nicely and looks great in red. But, I would warn someone, those are probably the exceptions, if you want one of the most reliable cars for your money, go with a Toyota, Lexus, Buick, Hyundai, Honda etc.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I would roughly figure your numbers are accurate RB. It does depend on a lot of variables though, you do a fair amount of work on the car yourself, if I remember right not too many miles a year, some savings because it was a CPO car to begin with, also you have been pretty lucky - no big expensive repairs that can be the luck of the draw. Also, $32000 savings is over 12 years. I roughly figure driving a new car every 3 years will cost me $3000 to $7000 a year more depending on the cost of the car........an X3 will be about $4000 to $5000 more....just my rough figures. $32000 is a nice chunk of change to have after 12 years, but, it depends on your priorities, driving a new car with a warranty and the latest features and not even thinking about maintenance is my priority, and it would be worth $4000 or $5000 a year for me to have the new car. It just depends on what is important to each person.........

That begs the question of how much better is a 2018 sludgemobile over a 2015? And how unreliable is a 3 year old car? Your typical car should be at it's most reliable at that point. 

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

That is one way of looking at it. I see it as you only live once, I want to enjoy the feeling of driving a car that has been superbly engineered (think masterpiece of art, Shakespeare, best actor, best whiskey, best pizza), and I am willing to pay for that privilege. If it was only about saving money or trying to be as practical as possible, I would buy a 3 year old Camry.

These types of discussions seem to come here periodically and seldom make sense to me. If it was all about the most "sensible" financial decisions we would all be living in 800 sq ft tract homes, wearing a Timex, buying our clothes at Walmart or Goodwill, and driving used Corollas. Some people do and that's fine. But to imply that anyone who doesn't do that is doing something foolhardy really makes no sense. You can make the choices you want and manage the outcomes.

Well said ab....I tried to make the point several times, but that says it all. If I wanted to cut back on expenses I might as well start eating Purina Dog Chow....but, I like steak, and I worked so I could buy the steak....so I will.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I would roughly figure your numbers are accurate RB. It does depend on a lot of variables though, you do a fair amount of work on the car yourself, if I remember right not too many miles a year, some savings because it was a CPO car to begin with, also you have been pretty lucky - no big expensive repairs that can be the luck of the draw. Also, $32000 savings is over 12 years.

I roughly figure driving a new car every 3 years will cost me $3000 to $7000 a year more depending on the cost of the car........an X3 will be about $4000 to $5000 more....just my rough figures.

$32000 is a nice chunk of change to have after 12 years, but, it depends on your priorities, driving a new car with a warranty and the latest features and not even thinking about maintenance is my priority, and it would be worth $4000 or $5000 a year for me to have the new car.

It just depends on what is important to each person.........

That begs the question of how much better is a 2018 sludgemobile over a 2015? And how unreliable is a 3 year old car? Your typical car should be at it's most reliable at that point

. 

Why even answer the question.....it doesn't matter. If you can use the money for something else then buy the 2015 sludgemobile and be happy.

btw, for the record my replacement 2017 E400 is a much improved car over the 2015 model. The 2015 was excellent, but the 2017 has many major improvements.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

Leasing always seems the most expensive option, and buying a used one that's just a few years old will always be the cheapest cost-to-own. You win the game on having the other guy absorb the depreciation.

And even if your used car is troublesome, like my last one was, it's still cheaper. Taking into account every penny I spent to buy the car, even the sales tax (not gas or insurance), all the repairs, large and small, every tire, wiper blade, belt, blub, or hose, and despite numerous calamities**, it still only cost me about $135 a month over 8 years and 150,000 miles. That's probably less than a third of what most new car buyers have spent by the end of their loan.

** control arm bushings, thermostat & housing, shock tower bracing, new sunroof, door lock actuators, interior door trim, headlight bulbs, cracked rim, cooling fan sensor, AC compressor, radio, battery, motor mounts, catalytic converter, key module. Non-calamities include the usual ---tune up, new brakes, windshield, tires.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

Well, you get something for the money. A new car, modern features, latest tech and features. Etc. Heck, you would save even more buying a 3 yo base model Malibu and driving it until it was 12. Cars are just appliances, right?

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

fintail

With a dry weight under 500 lbs

snakeweasel said:

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

28firefighter

Its hard to argue with the math of used vs. new, with the big caveat being that you need to actually keep the car more than 3 years (even if you buy used).

For those of us with CCBAitis, leasing can be a good way to minimize the depreciation hit (if you catch the lease at the right time) of switching cars regularly. Note, I said minimize - not mitigate.

ab348

snakeweasel said:

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

Oh dear, here we go. :@

Prius zealots are bad, but cyclists... oy.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I’m a Chronic leaser, but I could never justify it saying it was cheaper over the course of time. I would argue similar costs if you buy new and trade every three years, but certainly not over the long haul.

Regardless of economics leasing is attractive if you're driving a complex car prone to expensive repairs post-warranty or live in a climate that can trash a car in short order.

You hit one of the main reasons I won't by a car like an Audi, BMW and the like. I simply cannot see driving a car that you wouldn't own outside of a warranty. To me that's saying the car is unreliable

. 

That is one way of looking at it. I see it as you only live once, I want to enjoy the feeling of driving a car that has been superbly engineered (think masterpiece of art, Shakespeare, best actor, best whiskey, best pizza), and I am willing to pay for that privilege. If it was only about saving money or trying to be as practical as possible, I would buy a 3 year old Camry.

That begs the question of how well engineered it is if you worry about owning the car out of warranty? It's not about being as practible as possible but being reasonable. 

To me a well engineered car is one your not afraid to drive cross country when it has 100K miles on it. 

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

With a dry weight under 500 lbs

snakeweasel said:

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

Sounds like my Triumph! 350 lbs. That's about 1/3rd of a Harley.

stickguy

Routine maintence is fine. But troublesome, and breaking down, that won’t fly. Certainly not for my wife, or the car we take on long trips. Not as big a deal for a 2nd car for me to drive locally, that I don’t really depend on.

Plus at this point, a 10 yo car is so antiquated with tech, it seems like a relic from the stone ages!

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

** control arm bushings, thermostat & housing, shock tower bracing, new sunroof, door lock actuators, interior door trim, headlight bulbs, cracked rim, cooling fan sensor, AC compressor, radio, battery, motor mounts, catalytic converter, key module. Non-calamities include the usual ---tune up, new brakes, windshield, tires.

I count down time waiting for your car, arranging to take it in, calling for tow trucks or help, making phone calls, waiting at the garage, being late for something important, making arrangements for rides while car is in garage....as expenses. Probably worse than paying more monthly for a reliable car....it is taking valuable time away from my life!

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

That is one way of looking at it. I see it as you only live once, I want to enjoy the feeling of driving a car that has been superbly engineered (think masterpiece of art, Shakespeare, best actor, best whiskey, best pizza), and I am willing to pay for that privilege. If it was only about saving money or trying to be as practical as possible, I would buy a 3 year old Camry.

These types of discussions seem to come here periodically and seldom make sense to me. If it was all about the most "sensible" financial decisions we would all be living in 800 sq ft tract homes, wearing a Timex, buying our clothes at Walmart or Goodwill, and driving used Corollas. Some people do and that's fine. But to imply that anyone who doesn't do that is doing something foolhardy really makes no sense. You can make the choices you want and manage the outcomes.

Just remember going the cheapest or least expensive is usually not the most sensible financial decision. being practible is a lot different than saving the most money. 

If you want something go for it. But the point I am trying to get across is some of the reasons I see are just excuses. 

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

driver100 said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

I would roughly figure your numbers are accurate RB. It does depend on a lot of variables though, you do a fair amount of work on the car yourself, if I remember right not too many miles a year, some savings because it was a CPO car to begin with, also you have been pretty lucky - no big expensive repairs that can be the luck of the draw. Also, $32000 savings is over 12 years. I roughly figure driving a new car every 3 years will cost me $3000 to $7000 a year more depending on the cost of the car........an X3 will be about $4000 to $5000 more....just my rough figures. $32000 is a nice chunk of change to have after 12 years, but, it depends on your priorities, driving a new car with a warranty and the latest features and not even thinking about maintenance is my priority, and it would be worth $4000 or $5000 a year for me to have the new car. It just depends on what is important to each person.........

That begs the question of how much better is a 2018 sludgemobile over a 2015? And how unreliable is a 3 year old car? Your typical car should be at it's most reliable at that point

. 

Why even answer the question.....it doesn't matter. If you can use the money for something else then buy the 2015 sludgemobile and be happy. btw, for the record my replacement 2017 E400 is a much improved car over the 2015 model. The 2015 was excellent, but the 2017 has many major improvements.

like?

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

** control arm bushings, thermostat & housing, shock tower bracing, new sunroof, door lock actuators, interior door trim, headlight bulbs, cracked rim, cooling fan sensor, AC compressor, radio, battery, motor mounts, catalytic converter, key module. Non-calamities include the usual ---tune up, new brakes, windshield, tires.

I count down time waiting for your car, arranging to take it in, calling for tow trucks or help, making phone calls, waiting at the garage, being late for something important, making arrangements for rides while car is in garage....as expenses. Probably worse than paying more monthly for a reliable car....it is taking valuable time away from my life!

I never let that kind of thing get to me. There's always a way to turn waiting time into useful time. Besides, these things are stretched over 8 years. I gotta say the car never left me stranded. I'm hoping the next one is less of a pain though. BMW should be rightly ashamed of the Mini.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

With a dry weight under 500 lbs

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

Well give or take but certainly no laz-y boys with an engine and two wheels. 

fintail

2017 E is a completely different car, different platform. More posh interior, advanced ICE, more tech.

snakeweasel said:

btw, for the record my replacement 2017 E400 is a much improved car over the 2015 model. The 2015 was excellent, but the 2017 has many major improvements.

like?

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

Oh dear, here we go. :@ Prius zealots are bad, but cyclists... oy.

Seriously to truly enjoy the road there is nothing like a motorcycle where matching and operator are truly one and everything is open to you. 

fintail

I look at most cruisers as more like economy cars missing a couple wheels and doors

snakeweasel said:

Well give or take but certainly no laz-y boys with an engine and two wheels. 

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

With a dry weight under 500 lbs

in reality they are just appliances, to truly experience the road you need two wheels. 

Sounds like my Triumph! 350 lbs. That's about 1/3rd of a Harley.

My Honda weighs in at just over 500. 

driver100

fintail said:

2017 E is a completely different car, different platform. More posh interior, advanced ICE, more tech.

snakeweasel said:

btw, for the record my replacement 2017 E400 is a much improved car over the 2015 model. The 2015 was excellent, but the 2017 has many major improvements.

like?



Exactly! I would add has a nicer ride and more power. GPS works more efficiently and not only more posh interior, but more comfortable as well. Also will not only parallel park itself but can park forward or backwards into 90 degree parking. Cameras and warning devices have been updated.

These days there are big improvements every year. The 2017 could have had the automatic braking feature and automatic lane change feature if I wanted them......car technology is changing rapidly....3 years is a long time in improvement years.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

My wife and I usually buy CPO BMWs, pay them off in a couple of years, and then drive them for another 7-8 years minimum. I've never figured True Cost to Own, but I had an "expert" on another board proclaim that leasing a new BMW every three years was the cheapest way to own one. I crunched the numbers-subtracting what I sold it for from my purchase price and adding in all maintenance and repairs- and it turned out that buying my CPO 2004 X3 and driving it for 12 years was actually $32,000 less expensive than a perpetual $550/month lease over the same period.

** control arm bushings, thermostat & housing, shock tower bracing, new sunroof, door lock actuators, interior door trim, headlight bulbs, cracked rim, cooling fan sensor, AC compressor, radio, battery, motor mounts, catalytic converter, key module. Non-calamities include the usual ---tune up, new brakes, windshield, tires.

I count down time waiting for your car, arranging to take it in, calling for tow trucks or help, making phone calls, waiting at the garage, being late for something important, making arrangements for rides while car is in garage....as expenses. Probably worse than paying more monthly for a reliable car....it is taking valuable time away from my life!

I never let that kind of thing get to me. There's always a way to turn waiting time into useful time. Besides, these things are stretched over 8 years. I gotta say the car never left me stranded. I'm hoping the next one is less of a pain though. BMW should be rightly ashamed of the Mini

Some people depend on their cars for work or business. There were times in my life when I could have been making a lot more money by having a reliable car....than I could trying to save money buying a cheaper car that had to be in the garage for hours. Not in your case but it is another case of "False Economizing" for some people.

fintail

Not to mention, a 2015 is an updated 2010 car, where the 2017 was new for that model year. I rented a MB W212 in Germany in October 2009 - same platform as my 2016 model, the 2016 model just has some updates and a facelift.

I think for the US market, the option packages are changing too, and in a good way - now, P2 gives you LED gauges, which I think were only on P3 or a standalone option last year.

driver100 said:

Exactly! I would add has a nicer ride and more power. GPS works more efficiently and not only more posh interior, but more comfortable as well. Also will not only parallel park itself but can park forward or backwards into 90 degree parking. Cameras and warning devices have been updated.

These days there are big improvements every year. The 2017 could have had the automatic braking feature and automatic lane change feature if I wanted them......car technology is changing rapidly....3 years is a long time in improvement years.

fintail

A co-worker of mine has a metric cruiser, I think a Yamahog, which weighs at least 600 lbs. She's a slender middle aged woman, which amuses me, as I am not dainty nor weak, and I have no desire for something so heavy.

snakeweasel said:

Sounds like my Triumph! 350 lbs. That's about 1/3rd of a Harley.

My Honda weighs in at just over 500. 

fintail

The kind of bike you can lift.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Sounds like my Triumph! 350 lbs. That's about 1/3rd of a Harley.

Michaell

To me a well engineered car is one your not afraid to drive cross country when it has 100K miles on it.

When my FIL passed away, we inherited his early 90's Subaru Legacy wagon with 140K on it. I drove it from CO to CA (1100 miles) to gift to my son as a HS graduation gift (this was in 2007).

Changed the oil, did an alignment, and off I went. Averaged 30MPG on the trip. Not a problem or a hiccup the whole way.

Is it a coincidence that the wife's DD is a 2015 Outback? Probably not...

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

The bar ain't very high, but I learned how to cope....always have a car that is under warranty.

And you have driven that point home many times. Nothing wrong with that but l'm just getting used to my cars when they are 4 years old.

jmonroe

It takes you 4 years to learn how to drive your car?

Not exactly.

One year for the driving it part but around 4 years to learn how the combination lock works for the glove compartment and how to get at the donut spare. :@

jmonroe

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:
I learned a valuable lesson. If I could do something, why pay someone to screw it up and then be inconvenienced in the process?

But, the corollary is, "Why try to fix it myself and then screw it up and make it even more expensive to repair?"

Not talking about you JM, just some people like me can do more damage by DoingIY.

If I had two left hands, that's the way I'd do it too.

jmonroe

Yeh, I know my limits.

And the bar ain't that high...is it?

jmonroe

The bar ain't very high, but I learned how to cope....always have a car that is under warranty.

And you have driven that point home many times. Nothing wrong with that but l'm just getting used to my cars when they are 4 years old.

jmonroe

It takes you 4 years to learn how to drive your car?

Not exactly.

One year for the driving it part but around 4 years to learn how the combination lock works for the glove compartment and how to get at the donut spare. :@

jmonroe

I agree with you. Every car has it's sweet spots where if you hit it just right it performs better. Might be the way you take a corner or hitting the throttle to catch the shift just right but barring a lot of track work it takes awhile to get the "fit" right.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Well, you get something for the money. A new car, modern features, latest tech and features. Etc.

Heck, you would save even more buying a 3 yo base model Malibu and driving it until it was 12. Cars are just appliances, right?

Not always. That's why you should own a fleet to suit your every mood. One for the family, one to haul garbage to the dump and one just for YOU.

You don't want to mile up your dream car getting groceries.

qbrozen

A coworker just showed me his "new" car. He needed something now just until his daughter leaves for school in September. After looking around, he decided to lend her his car and use swap-a-lease to get something fun for himself for the short term. Wound up scoring a 2016 M235i vert 6-speed with just 4600 miles (city dwellers who hardly ever drove it) for $600/mo through 9/15. The buyout at that time on this ~$60k(?) car would be $32k. He figures, if he likes it, he'll buy it.

As it sits today, it is roughly a $40k-$42k car. Add up his lease payments and buyout, and he would be in it for $37,400. Not bad at all.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

That is one way of looking at it. I see it as you only live once, I want to enjoy the feeling of driving a car that has been superbly engineered (think masterpiece of art, Shakespeare, best actor, best whiskey, best pizza), and I am willing to pay for that privilege. If it was only about saving money or trying to be as practical as possible, I would buy a 3 year old Camry.

These types of discussions seem to come here periodically and seldom make sense to me. If it was all about the most "sensible" financial decisions we would all be living in 800 sq ft tract homes, wearing a Timex, buying our clothes at Walmart or Goodwill, and driving used Corollas. Some people do and that's fine. But to imply that anyone who doesn't do that is doing something foolhardy really makes no sense. You can make the choices you want and manage the outcomes.

I DO NOT DRIVE A COROLLA! :@

driver100

Michaell said:

To me a well engineered car is one your not afraid to drive cross country when it has 100K miles on it.

When my FIL passed away, we inherited his early 90's Subaru Legacy wagon with 140K on it. I drove it from CO to CA (1100 miles) to gift to my son as a HS graduation gift (this was in 2007).

Changed the oil, did an alignment, and off I went. Averaged 30MPG on the trip. Not a problem or a hiccup the whole way.

Is it a coincidence that the wife's DD is a 2015 Outback? Probably not...

My neighbor drove his diesel Jetta from Toronto to California and back and it had over 250000 miles on it....it can be done.
I remember my 1984 Camaro, my 1986 Chev Cosica, and my 92 Chev Cavalier felt a little loose and like they were going to fall apart at about 60000 miles - also they usually had a few unexpected repairs, especially the Corsica which was what I would call....minimal engineering. New cars usually seem to be tighter with fewer squeaks and rattles.

abacomike

Just got back from the local Mercedes dealer’s service facility after having the windshield replaced this morning at SafeLite.  As promised, they calibrated all the cameras and radar systems to spec at no charge.

The windshield has the Mercedes star logo on the driver’s side lower bottom and has the Daimler signature on the lower edge on the passenger’s side - definitely an OEM part.  The total bill came to $2230 which was picked up in total by the insurance company.  In Florida, windshields are replaced with 0 deductible - even though my comprehensive has $500 deductible.

This is the 2nd windshield replacement this year (BMW and the new Mercedes) and the first claims I have made in over 30 years.  When it rains it pours.