Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

fintail said:

I am always a little leery about "Reliability" reports that can be tainted because someone who still has a microwave that blinks 12:00 all day can't sync their jitterbug phone to bluetooth, or finds a seat uncomfortable, rather than because scores of cars are stranding people every day. The latter doesn't happen much anymore.
I'll take an extra shop visit once every 4 years to have better build/material quality, not to mention driving feel.

driver100 said:

I
Toyotas and Chevys more reliable than BMW and Mercedes, J.D. Power finds
Mass-market brands fare better in dependability than luxury models for first time in 30 years
by ALEXANDRA SEMENOVA, BLOOMBERG | 1 DAY AGO

Yes, the top cars have 135 and BMW and MB are 6 behind at 141 or so, almost statistically meaningless, so buy what you like and like what you buy. If you really need a car based on reliability buy something inexpensive and simple Corolla or Camry are good bets.

driver100

abacomike said:

jmonroe1 said:

I know someone is going to complain about my long post above...but, it has lots of solid information that had to be posted to make sense...it didn't meander on and go blah, blah blah.......

There’s only one malcontent that doesn’t like your long posts although the rest of us may skim over them from time to time.

There ain't that many posters that can maintain the interest of readers with their looog posts but then they're not Canadians that have suffered the affects of an undeclared silent war.

jmonroe
abacomike

SKIM is the most important word in your post, farmer.  I’m getting better at “skimming”! 

Jmonroe has learned that skill as well

!

But we all get practice at skimming with JMonroe...especially the original one.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

I know someone is going to complain about my long post above...but, it has lots of solid information that had to be posted to make sense...it didn't meander on and go blah, blah blah.......

There’s only one malcontent that doesn’t like your long posts although the rest of us may skim over them from time to time.

There ain't that many posters that can maintain the interest of readers with their looog posts but then they're not Canadians that have suffered the affects of an undeclared silent war.

jmonroe

"There ain't that many posters that can maintain the interest of readers with their looog posts."
Does that happen in one of your reoccurring dreams that you keep having?

graphicguy

I spent my entire college career skimming and then pontificating those skims back onto paper using a thousand times more words than the “skim” I read.

driver100

Please don't do that with a JMonroe post GG

bwia

Adiós, adieu to the Airbus A380. An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars. With four engines that are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise levels to a tolerable hum, however, that was not enough to save the A380. Too bad. But at a list price of $445 million a copy the economics was hard to justify. And while the A380 is a hit with the flying public the lack of orders from US carriers was the final nail in the coffin.

Michaell

bwia said:

Adiós, adieu to the Airbus A380. An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars. With four engines that are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise levels to a tolerable hum that was not to save the A380. Too bad. But at a list price of $445 million a copy the economics was hard to justify. And while the A380 is a hit with the flying public the lack of orders from US carriers was the final nail in the coffin.

I saw that.

Apparently, there aren't many airlines that fly 6000-8000-10000 mile routes where the economics of the A380 worked.

Most airlines are switching to smaller planes and shorter routes, even for international travel.

Mr_Shiftright

abacomike said:

Recent history (millions and millions of recalls) would suggest that product quality at the production line level in the automobile industry had to improve - this this improvement is not startling to me.

Executives in the industry finally figured out that building a “quality” vehicle on the assembly line is more economical than repairing/recalling vehicles at the dealership level.  Fewer repairs per vehicle means higher gross profits for the industry, as a whole.  So quality control improvements during production are more cost effective than recalls and/or repairs post production.  Makes sense to me!

As someone once told the Big Three back in the 1980s: "It takes the same amount of time to build a good car as a bad one".

Mr_Shiftright

berri said:

So when will the quality gains in cars happen for new homes. Builders seem to have a long way to go.

Buyers are somewhat to blame for that--Americans shop space. They want massive square footage and so the builders have to cut the per-foot costs. So you get the old "studs--thin plywood--drywall" bam-bam-bam.

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

bwia said:

Adiós, adieu to the Airbus A380. An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars. With four engines that are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise levels to a tolerable hum that was not to save the A380. Too bad. But at a list price of $445 million a copy the economics was hard to justify. And while the A380 is a hit with the flying public the lack of orders from US carriers was the final nail in the coffin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw that.

Apparently, there aren't many airlines that fly 6000-8000-10000 mile routes where the economics of the A380 worked.

Most airlines are switching to smaller planes and shorter routes, even for international travel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also it can't land at a lot of airports, and only a few airports were willing to extend runways.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Adiós, adieu to the Airbus A380. An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars. With four engines that are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise levels to a tolerable hum that was not to save the A380. Too bad. But at a list price of $445 million a copy the economics was hard to justify. And while the A380 is a hit with the flying public the lack of orders from US carriers was the final nail in the coffin.

I doubt that any of us mere mortals would ever see those amenities.

Mr_Shiftright

That must be fun in severe turbulence.

henryn

Mr_Shiftright said:

berri said:

So when will the quality gains in cars happen for new homes. Builders seem to have a long way to go.

Buyers are somewhat to blame for that--Americans shop space. They want massive square footage and so the builders have to cut the per-foot costs. So you get the old "studs--thin plywood--drywall" bam-bam-bam.

I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to remember where I have seen any plywood used in new home construction. Studs, drywall, absolutely.

Mr_Shiftright

Sure they do, for exterior wall sheathing---or some wood product or another or OSB.

bwia

Boston's Logan International Airport has a dedicated jet bridge for BA's A380 from Boston to London. The flight is always full and is a major attraction for passengers. To them, the flying experience is more important than the destination; something similar to a Caribbean cruise.

stickguy

just subfloors and sheathing.

A local builder (that does larger neighborhoods usually) bought a teardown around the corner from me and is putting up 3 "executive" homes there (probably about 3,200 SF +/-). The first one is going up now, even with the crappy weather. They dropped off all the materials, looks like a big knock down kit, since much of it is pre cut, and stuff like trusses are all made in the factory.

one day, and the entire first floor was up, and part of the 2nd. By the end of day 3 it was all assembled and much of the sheathing was on. Yesterday in about 2 hours they did all the roof sheathing and small angled stuff. Amazing how fast a place that big, with lots of architectural details, goes up. Probably could have all the windows in today, another day or 2 for roof and siding, and would pretty much look like a complete house.

cdnpinhead

Twin engine widebodies certified for ETOPS (Extended Twin Operation Performance Standards) have sealed the fate of the big four-engined aircraft. At the moment the Airbus A350 and Boeing B787 are the modern winners, and both are capable of very long range flight. In addition the B777, which has been in service for over 20 years, is still very popular and is being updated with all the latest efficiency magic. You used to need four engines to get across the Pacific, and even the Atlantic on direct routes, but modern high-reliability engines (and APUs that can start and run to provide additional electric power in the event of a main engine shutdown) have made them obsolete. Plus which, point-to-point travel is much more popular and suited to the twins; hub and spoke is what the giants need to survive, so more connections are required for many journeys.

One of the issues that sealed the fate of the A380 is that its cargo handling capability can't compare to the single-deck 747 with the tilt-up nose and other cargo handling options. Last I heard mostly cargo carriers were signing up for the "new and improved" 747-8.

The end of an era. However, the 747 has been in continuous service and production for over 50 years, having delivered over 1550 hulls, while the A380 has delivered or has on order a few over 310 since 2007.

bwia

deleted

isellhondas

berri said:

How does Scandinavia do it? They seem to have a good medical system and happy citizens.

How? Simple! They tax their citizens to death! Simple to do this!

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

berri said:

How does Scandinavia do it? They seem to have a good medical system and happy citizens.

We provide them with military protection.

Not Sweden or Finland. They aren't NATO. And even if you were in NATO, I wouldn't count on it coming anytime soon enough. Besides, who would attack Denmark? And Norwegians are among the world's richest people and spend the highest per capita for military, among European NATO members. They aren't slackers.

Why, thank you! My relatives would appreciate your comment!

fintail

I love watching houses being built around me. Cardboard 'n plywood with a pressboard or plastic coating, and then sold at at an insane price. In middle America, replace the pressboard or plastic with face brick or stucco in southern climes, same difference otherwise.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Sure they do, for exterior wall sheathing---or some wood product or another or OSB.

bwia

@ab348, sorry for loss. Rusty supposedly had nine lives but unfortunately his life extended options ran out. May he Rip.

fintail

And yet when you average out the taxes, they pay less on healthcare per capita than we do, and no risk of financial ruin via the simple bad luck of medical issues. Longer life expectancy, too.

isellhondas said:

How? Simple! They tax their citizens to death! Simple to do this!

Mr_Shiftright

Or they tax them to life, if the healthcare is good. They pay the government rather than a for-profit HMO.

I mean, you might pay even more for gasoline if, the next day, every pothole was filled in your neighborhood, every road were smoother, and traffic decreased.

It's when you pay more and more and don't get more and more, that taxes become extremely irritating.

driver100

isellhondas said:

berri said:

How does Scandinavia do it? They seem to have a good medical system and happy citizens.

How? Simple! They tax their citizens to death! Simple to do this!

The citizens don't mind paying, for all the security it provides.

Mr_Shiftright

They aren't like us as a culture. They are far more monolithic, and much more realistic I think. You can't just paste one system onto another nation.

cdnpinhead

It helps to have a more-or-less homogeneous society with a work ethic. Screwing the system is a cottage industry in some countries; less so in others.

Most people don't object to helping those who can't help themselves. As for those who won't. . .

henryn

isellhondas said:

berri said:

How does Scandinavia do it? They seem to have a good medical system and happy citizens.

How? Simple! They tax their citizens to death! Simple to do this!

But they get what they pay, which is why they are happy. I pay a lot of taxes, not as much as Scandinavian countries, but still quite a bit. And I don't feel like I get what I'm paying for, so I'm not happy. Or at least not as happy as those in Scandinavia.

Mr_Shiftright

The Swedish Tax Agency is actually, literally, one of the most popular and well-liked public institutions in Sweden. The Swedes just aren't anti-tax in attitude. I was just reading an interesting thing--that the Swedish word for tax----skatt---has another meaning----"treasure".

So, bottom line, in this case most Swedes seem to think that Big Brother is benevolent towards them. And they're right.

The Tax Agency apparently does other things for the population, like birth registrations, wedding formalities, etc. It's also highly efficient, and Swedes like that.

carnaught

Maybe the Swedes also are less litigious, and that has meant less defensive medicine being practiced.

andres3

graphicguy said:

28firefighter said:

As this is a civil violation for @graphicguy, there is no violation of due process. The threshold requirements and rights afforded are very different.

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Got a phone call (surprisingly, not a letter) from the police dept where my (alleged) speeding ticket was from. So apparently, the vast majority of people just pay the ticket (with no points) and don’t ask for a hearing, as I did.

As such, they won’t be able to schedule the hearing until May.

Interestingly enough, it won’t be in a court, but at the police dept HQ. Sure, I’ll get a fair shake from the exact dept who benefits from the cash grab shakedown. I asked him (he said he was a Sgt) if it would be a true hearing in front of a magistrate or a judge. He said they’d use whomever would be available, including the police dept to render a judgement. Yeah....this is going to go well.

Seems like a real scam but go and use as much of their time as you can. Maybe take the profit out of your case.

yeah.....seems there are is no “due process” when a city is putting their hands in my pants to extract more money.

@oldfarmer50 .....that’s my plan. If it’s not held in a court of law, I’m assuming additional court costs can’t be assessed. But, nothing will surprise me.

I don't buy the "civil violation" argument. Speeding is a criminal complaint. There is no "victim" for a civil argument, and every one knows it is done solely for the purpose of circumventing due process and "robbing" victims of their money.

andres3

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I am always a little leery about "Reliability" reports that can be tainted because someone who still has a microwave that blinks 12:00 all day can't sync their jitterbug phone to bluetooth, or finds a seat uncomfortable, rather than because scores of cars are stranding people every day. The latter doesn't happen much anymore.
I'll take an extra shop visit once every 4 years to have better build/material quality, not to mention driving feel.

driver100 said:

I
Toyotas and Chevys more reliable than BMW and Mercedes, J.D. Power finds
Mass-market brands fare better in dependability than luxury models for first time in 30 years
by ALEXANDRA SEMENOVA, BLOOMBERG | 1 DAY AGO

Yes, the top cars have 135 and BMW and MB are 6 behind at 141 or so, almost statistically meaningless, so buy what you like and like what you buy. If you really need a car based on reliability buy something inexpensive and simple Corolla or Camry are good bets.

I don't agree with 6 problems per hundred cars being meaningless. With CA labor rates, each of those problems might be well into four figures to fix. That's some real $$$$$. Also, maybe a month of down time at the dealership.

stickguy

I live in NJ. I know for a fact but I’m getting very little bang for my tax buck!

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I live in NJ. I know for a fact but I’m getting very little bang for my tax buck!

Oh, you obviously don't appreciate the tremendous benefits of having state, county, township, AND town governments.

Mr_Shiftright

You have, I think, the highest property tax in the nation, too.

stickguy

We do. Lucky us.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

Imid, this should make your day!
J.D. Powers Reliability for 2016 models:
Toyotas and Chevys more reliable than BMW and Mercedes, J.D. Power finds
Mass-market brands fare better in dependability than luxury models for first time in 30 years
by ALEXANDRA SEMENOVA, BLOOMBERG | 1 DAY AGO


Prospective buyers planning to splurge on a luxury car may want to reconsider: Mass-market brands now are more reliable than premium models.

For the first time in its 30-year vehicle-dependability study, J.D. Power found that mainstream brands ranked higher than upscale ones, based on problems per 100 vehicles for three-year-old autos.

Nameplates from companies including Toyota, General Motors and Hyundai had an average of 135 problems, six fewer than for brands such as BMW and Daimler’s Mercedes-Benz.

The shift is a combination of mass-market cars catching up in overall quality and less new technology in these vehicles that can increase the chance of something going wrong, according to Dave Sargent, J.D. Power’s vice president of global automotive.

“Partly, it’s just a lot of hard work and learning, and partly, it’s lower penetration with some of these features,” Sargent said in a phone interview. “There is no inherent reason why a more-expensive car should be better or worse in terms of reliability than a less-expensive car, so my guess is they’ll track each other fairly closely going forward.”

The industry averaged six fewer problems per 100 vehicles compared with a year ago, according to J.D. Power. That was a slower pace than the decline of 14 between 2017 and 2018, with new technologies such as voice recognition and enhanced safety systems contributing to the lag in improvement.

Toyota’s Lexus luxury line topped the list for the eighth consecutive year with 106 problems, followed by Porsche with 108—even though their totals rose from 99 and 100 respectively last year. Toyota-brand vehicles tied for second place with Porsche, and GM’s Chevrolet and Buick brands rounded out the top five.

For the first time in the U.S. study’s history, all German brands ranked above the industry average, which was 136 problems per 100 vehicles. Honda, Ford’s Lincoln and Nissan ranked below the average after beating it last year. Chrysler showed the most improvement, with 65 fewer problems than in 2018

Generally, it sounds like reliability is not a major issue anymore.....all brands are pretty close...that's what I get out of it.

As I recall it, my earlier post about 2015 JD Powers results was met with various types of grief. So it's good to see another study shows a narrowing of the quality and reliability results for all cars. Isn't that what I had been saying about the media-driven stereotyping about the 8th Gen Malibu. All I ever said was for people to give each vehicle a full consideration based on its merits and not on perceived auto media opinions.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

I spent my entire college career skimming and then pontificating those skims back onto paper using a thousand times more words than the “skim” I read.

Didn't you have those outline books with the diagonal yellow and black stripes? Not that I ever used one, but...

imidazol97

@ab348
My sympathies on your loss of Rusty. He looks so beautifully content in the pictures.

isellhondas

Ah, Cliffs Notes!

imidazol97

I had a 2-hour root canal on a 2nd molar this morning. I just got up from the inevitable sleep-it-off after any numbing injection for dental work. I still feel grumpy.

I had the Gentle Wave treatment, so I'm hoping there's no secondary infection, even though I have prescriptions to fill in that event. The name of the ultrasonic cleaning procedure sounds like one of the many scents offered in laundry detergents. I can see the bottle now: "Gentle Wave All. With a fresh scent reminding you of your endodontist's office."

venture

@ab348

Sorry to hear about Rusty. Hang in there.

houdini2

ab348 said:

Sorry to have to report that my cat Rusty died last night. He had been fighting against liver failure for over a month and was just incredibly strong, having eluded the inevitable during several Vet visits where I was expecting the worst but where he kept hanging in and living a decent quality of life up until yesterday when everything fell apart. He had been with me for 12 years and was probably 16 or 17 years old, and was the last of what at one time was a group of 4 cats who lived here. He was very much the strong, silent type and over the last number of months when he was flying solo here I really came to appreciate him much more. Just a superb cat. Rest in peace, my friend.

Sounds like Rusty was a good one. Very regal looking. RIP Rusty.

houdini2

graphicguy said:

28firefighter said:

As this is a civil violation for @graphicguy, there is no violation of due process. The threshold requirements and rights afforded are very different.

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Got a phone call (surprisingly, not a letter) from the police dept where my (alleged) speeding ticket was from. So apparently, the vast majority of people just pay the ticket (with no points) and don’t ask for a hearing, as I did.

As such, they won’t be able to schedule the hearing until May.

Interestingly enough, it won’t be in a court, but at the police dept HQ. Sure, I’ll get a fair shake from the exact dept who benefits from the cash grab shakedown. I asked him (he said he was a Sgt) if it would be a true hearing in front of a magistrate or a judge. He said they’d use whomever would be available, including the police dept to render a judgement. Yeah....this is going to go well.

Seems like a real scam but go and use as much of their time as you can. Maybe take the profit out of your case.

yeah.....seems there are is no “due process” when a city is putting their hands in my pants to extract more money.

@oldfarmer50 .....that’s my plan. If it’s not held in a court of law, I’m assuming additional court costs can’t be assessed. But, nothing will surprise me.

No court costs...but probably a doc fee.

houdini2

henryn said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

berri said:

So when will the quality gains in cars happen for new homes. Builders seem to have a long way to go.

Buyers are somewhat to blame for that--Americans shop space. They want massive square footage and so the builders have to cut the per-foot costs. So you get the old "studs--thin plywood--drywall" bam-bam-bam.

I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to remember where I have seen any plywood used in new home construction. Studs, drywall, absolutely.

henryn said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

berri said:

So when will the quality gains in cars happen for new homes. Builders seem to have a long way to go.

Buyers are somewhat to blame for that--Americans shop space. They want massive square footage and so the builders have to cut the per-foot costs. So you get the old "studs--thin plywood--drywall" bam-bam-bam.

I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to remember where I have seen any plywood used in new home construction. Studs, drywall, absolutely.

henryn said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

berri said:

So when will the quality gains in cars happen for new homes. Builders seem to have a long way to go.

Buyers are somewhat to blame for that--Americans shop space. They want massive square footage and so the builders have to cut the per-foot costs. So you get the old "studs--thin plywood--drywall" bam-bam-bam.

I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to remember where I have seen any plywood used in new home construction. Studs, drywall, absolutely.

You apparently have never lived in California.

cdnpinhead

Plywood is now high-end. OSB (oriented strand board), otherwise known as aspenite or chipboard in previous times, is the rule now for roof sheathing and shear walls.

henryn

cdnpinhead said:

Plywood is now high-end. OSB (oriented strand board), otherwise known as aspenite or chipboard in previous times, is the rule now for roof sheathing and shear walls.

Yeah, I see lots of that (OSB). Plywood, no, not so much.

explorerx4

@ab348.
I think you need to find another cat, asap.
If it lives 17 years, it might say, 'My human had a good long run'.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

Michaell said:

bwia said:

Adiós, adieu to the Airbus A380. An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars. With four engines that are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise levels to a tolerable hum that was not to save the A380. Too bad. But at a list price of $445 million a copy the economics was hard to justify. And while the A380 is a hit with the flying public the lack of orders from US carriers was the final nail in the coffin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw that.

Apparently, there aren't many airlines that fly 6000-8000-10000 mile routes where the economics of the A380 worked.

Most airlines are switching to smaller planes and shorter routes, even for international travel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also it can't land at a lot of airports, and only a few airports were willing to extend runways.

Not many airports can extend their runways.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

bwia said:

Adiós, adieu to the Airbus A380. An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars. With four engines that are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise levels to a tolerable hum that was not to save the A380. Too bad. But at a list price of $445 million a copy the economics was hard to justify. And while the A380 is a hit with the flying public the lack of orders from US carriers was the final nail in the coffin.

I doubt that any of us mere mortals would ever see those amenities.

Or could reasonably afford it.