Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

isellhondas

Texting while driving should be a felony!

roadburner

Time to dig out the Wrangler...

stever

Or time to enlarge the garage.

Michaell

roadburner said:

Time to dig out the Wrangler...

Dig out? Sheesh, just jump in, start 'er up and drive out! It's a Wrangler!

roadburner

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Time to dig out the Wrangler...

Dig out? Sheesh, just jump in, start 'er up and drive out! It's a Wrangler!

That's what I did, actually- I did remove as much snow as I could from the roof, grill, and lights. It made it through 18" in 2WD. The frame, skid plates, and diffs left grooves in the snow.

nyccarguy

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/New-Milford-Volkswagen-to-close-after-65-years-6115723.php?cmpid=email-mobile

I know we have spoke about this in the past. Too bad a 50 year dealership now has to close its doors because VW won't give them credit because they won't renovate their store to conform with VW's corporate standards.

robr2

nyccarguy said:

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/New-Milford-Volkswagen-to-close-after-65-years-6115723.php?cmpid=email-mobile

I know we have spoke about this in the past. Too bad a 50 year dealership now has to close its doors because VW won't give them credit because they won't renovate their store to conform with VW's corporate standards.

But let's post the whole story. They have not been profitable for 3 years. That's the real reason for pulling the credit line. We all know very few dealerships make money on new cars. Used cars and service work is where the money is.

The owner has had years to upgrade the dealership. He has decided he doesn't want to. I'm sure his contract with VW tells him that the dealership has to have a certain look and feel. If he wants to play, he has to pay.

verdugo

driver100 said:

One reader said this was not a good idea, talking on a phone while driving.....even hands free, because:

My wife likes to call (using hands free) from the car. When she calls me, I check if it's an emergency or something urgent. If it's not, I tell her that I won't talk to her while she's driving. I say good bye and hang up.

verdugo

What are dealers smoking?

I sold my 2012 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited to the dealer where I leased my Grand Cherokee (They offered the same price as Carmax.)

They just listed it on their website and I can't believe what they're asking for it.

They paid me $29,000. They're asking $34,999. They didn't even bother to fix the bumper.

For reference, I paid $38,000-ish for it new. Edmund's TMV for a new one is $39.4k. Truecar says $38.9k.

I realize that the dealer's price is only a starting price, but to ask only $4k less for a 3 year old Jeep with 24,000 miles than what a new one costs is insane -- even if Wranglers don't depreciate that much.

http://www.swiftindavis.com/inventory/used/?StockNo=DP4993

bwia

Happy spring everyone.

I am 300 posts behind; don't know long it will take but I plan to begin later this afternoon...phew! Still haven't pulled the trigger on an SUV I just can't wrap my head around the $45- $50k price tag for a modestly equipped entry luxury CUV/SUV.

jayrider

verdugo said:

What are dealers smoking?

I sold my 2012 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited to the dealer where I leased my Grand Cherokee (They offered the same price as Carmax.)

They just listed it on their website and I can't believe what they're asking for it.

They paid me $29,000. They're asking $34,999. They didn't even bother to fix the bumper.

For reference, I paid $38,000-ish for it new. Edmund's TMV for a new one is $39.4k. Truecar says $38.9k.

I realize that the dealer's price is only a starting price, but to ask only $4k less for a 3 year old Jeep with 24,000 miles than what a new one costs is insane -- even if Wranglers don't depreciate that much.

http://www.swiftindavis.com/inventory/used/?StockNo=DP4993

Had my Prius in for an oil change today. Talked to a salesman about new vs used.
He said that there are customers who will ONLY buy used. It doesn't matter if it makes more to buy the same model new. There is no amount of data or information that will change their mind. Go figure.

fezo

Should be an interesting evening. We've got tickets to see the Harlem Globetrotters in AC tonight (about a 30 mile drive). We're going.

nyccarguy

@verdugo‌

I don't understand used car pricing either. My best friend leased a Wrangler Unlimited Sahara last May. He drove it with the top down almost every day he could. 6 months later he had to put the hard top back on and couldn't stand it. So he got out of it by trading it in and it was worth the payoff.

http://www.hlchevy.com/VehicleDetails/used-2014-Jeep-Wrangler_Unlimited-Sahara-Darien-CT/2400121063

Here's the listing. The Jeep has been there for a while. They are asking close to $37K for it. You could get a brand new one for not that much more. Crazy.

graphicguy

I think it was driver who said we have so much oil that we're running out of room to store it.

Here's more info....

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097108_will-oil-price-collapse-because-were-out-of-room-to-store-it

In brief, there's no legitimate reason for gas prices to be rising. Another attempt by big oil to artificially prop up prices.

Mr_Shiftright

Dealers can finance---we can't. So they are waiting for the type of buyer who shops monthly payments, not selling price. Sad but true.

verdugo said:

What are dealers smoking?

I sold my 2012 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited to the dealer where I leased my Grand Cherokee (They offered the same price as Carmax.)

They just listed it on their website and I can't believe what they're asking for it.

They paid me $29,000. They're asking $34,999. They didn't even bother to fix the bumper.

For reference, I paid $38,000-ish for it new. Edmund's TMV for a new one is $39.4k. Truecar says $38.9k.

I realize that the dealer's price is only a starting price, but to ask only $4k less for a 3 year old Jeep with 24,000 miles than what a new one costs is insane -- even if Wranglers don't depreciate that much.

http://www.swiftindavis.com/inventory/used/?StockNo=DP4993

stever

graphicguy said:

In brief, there's no legitimate reason for gas prices to be rising.

Remember it's the crude that's being stored. Refining stuff from the crude is a whole nother ball of tar. The prices generally chart each other but gasoline is a lot more volatile. (Natural Resources Canada)

ab348

stever said:

Remember it's the crude that's being stored. Refining stuff from the crude is a whole nother ball of tar. The prices generally chart each other but gasoline is a lot more volatile. (Natural Resources Canada)

Heckuva good pun right there.

stever

What, no love for the tar reference?

robr2

graphicguy said:

I think it was driver who said we have so much oil that we're running out of room to store it.

Here's more info....

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097108_will-oil-price-collapse-because-were-out-of-room-to-store-it

In brief, there's no legitimate reason for gas prices to be rising. Another attempt by big oil to artificially prop up prices.

There's a whole lot of maybes, mights and mays in that article.

oldfarmer50

verdugo said:

abacomike said:

Best not to involve your current boss prior to making your decision.  Either the new job is the best move or it isn't.

Very good point Mike.

GG, another thing to consider is that you don't like what mgmt is asking you to do right now to get business. I think you said those kind of tactics left you feeling "icky."

I think that's your answer right there. Why would you want to work for a company that makes you feel icky?

I tried to post something along those lines yesterday but was blocked for some reason.

That may be why GG is feeling like moving on. That's why I left the corporate world for my own business. My company wanted me to do things I thought were illegal not to mention immoral and when I balked they fired me. Two years later the FBI shut them down for those very activities.

He should listen to that little voice in the back of his head.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Time to dig out the Wrangler...

You guys have been getting slammed this week. I'm assuming this is not typical of your area.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

Time to dig out the Wrangler...

You guys have been getting slammed this week. I'm assuming this is not typical of your area.

Not this much snow- especially so late in the season...

explorerx4

@roadburner,
Question is, is that dry snow or wet? Wet is a big pain.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
Question is, is that dry snow or wet? Wet is a big pain.

Wet...

roadburner

Two BIG thumbs-up for BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO tires- I made it all the way out of my driveway without having to use four wheel drive...

driver100

graphicguy said:

I think it was driver who said we have so much oil that we're running out of room to store it.

Here's more info....

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097108_will-oil-price-collapse-because-were-out-of-room-to-store-it

In brief, there's no legitimate reason for gas prices to be rising. Another attempt by big oil to artificially prop up prices.

Soon the government will have to give us incentives to start driving Big V-8 SUVs again.

explorerx4

@roadburner,
Uphill or downhill s where those tires will earn their keep.

stickguy

I've been in Chicago all week, nice weather. Today was clear and sunny. Back home in jersey got slammed.

Go figure.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
Uphill or downhill s where those tires will earn their keep.

They did, my driveway is anything but flat.

verdugo

nyccarguy said:

@verdugo‌

I don't understand used car pricing either. My best friend leased a Wrangler Unlimited Sahara last May. He drove it with the top down almost every day he could. 6 months later he had to put the hard top back on and couldn't stand it. So he got out of it by trading it in and it was worth the payoff.

http://www.hlchevy.com/VehicleDetails/used-2014-Jeep-Wrangler_Unlimited-Sahara-Darien-CT/2400121063

Here's the listing. The Jeep has been there for a while. They are asking close to $37K for it. You could get a brand new one for not that much more. Crazy.

Ouch. No wonder that is still there.

I know that dealership. I bought my first car there.

fezo

Today the Harlem Globetrotter were in Atlantic City and had plans to go there. Decided to brave the snow and took two hours to do what's normally just over half an hour. Despite miles of lightly treated roads that needed more we go. Are late and miss the first few minuted but have a ball. End up sponsoring a kid in Zaire because they're into it.

Knock tons of snow out my wheel wells and finally blow a tire on the road back but it's insured and by tomorrow all will be well. Good thing we took the Mazda instead of the new Prius.

ab348

driver100 said:

Soon the government will have to give us incentives to start driving Big V-8 SUVs again.

They already do. It's called "gasoline taxes that are way too low".

graphicguy

stever said:

graphicguy said:

In brief, there's no legitimate reason for gas prices to be rising.

Remember it's the crude that's being stored. Refining stuff from the crude is a whole nother ball of tar. The prices generally chart each other but gasoline is a lot more volatile. (Natural Resources Canada)

Steve...I just saw where BP is trying to sell off a massive oil storage facility I think in the Netherlands. Oil demand is going down, worldwide. That is something we know for certain.

Gas is made from oil with demand in a freefall, with supply being high. That's a fundamental economic principle for prices to fall. So, there is no reason for this run up in prices.

BTW....I just read a Forbes article stating that the Chinese government is pulling back from the agressive growth strategy they've had. Their goal is to reel in their enonomy to get it at levels they were 15 years ago. So, demand there will fall, too.

nyccarguy

@verdugo‌

It is a fantastic, family run dealership. We deal with the owner's son who runs the place. His other son is the head of the service department. They have an interesting mix of vehicles there due to their location. Darien is super wealthy, so he has all kinds of LTZ Tahoes & Suburbans on the lot. He's also the 1st Chevy dealer in lower Fairfield County (off 95), so he's got LS Cruzes & lots of used cars priced in the mid teens for sale.

My Dad has bought 2 Tahoes from him. My best friend has bought 3 Tahoes from him.

stever

graphicguy said:

Gas is made from oil with demand in a freefall, with supply being high. That's a fundamental economic principle for prices to fall. So, there is no reason for this run up in prices.

I had another company come out Wednesday to scope out the house for a solar quote. Neither company has an air of "desperation" but both I've contacted realize that the subsidy gravy train is about over for solar. But El Paso Electric is maxed out on their renewable requirements and they have too much capacity as it is. And people are still conserving. So the utility is going to raise rates at the end of the year "to pay for the grid" so like gas, even in a glut the manufacturing and delivery will prop up prices a bit. That will still drive people to solar.

We're going to size a system, if we get one, to cover most of our bill in the 9 months of the year when we won't be using the AC heavily. The other three months we'll likely have a $200 bill instead of a $300 one. Oversizing a system doesn't pay since the utility is only paying .02 cents a KwH for your usage and not much more for any excess you generate. The retail price right now is ~.12 cents a KwH.

Battery tech - if only, if only.... A breakthrough there would be extremely disruptive to the utilities, not to mention the auto suppliers who focus on fuel delivery and gas engines. I'd go off the grid in a flash, like our Taos friends who are way out in the sticks.

graphicguy

stever said:

graphicguy said:

Gas is made from oil with demand in a freefall, with supply being high. That's a fundamental economic principle for prices to fall. So, there is no reason for this run up in prices.

I had another company come out Wednesday to scope out the house for a solar quote. Neither company has an air of "desperation" but both I've contacted realize that the subsidy gravy train is about over for solar. But El Paso Electric is maxed out on their renewable requirements and they have too much capacity as it is. And people are still conserving. So the utility is going to raise rates at the end of the year "to pay for the grid" so like gas, even in a glut the manufacturing and delivery will prop up prices a bit. That will still drive people to solar.

We're going to size a system, if we get one, to cover most of our bill in the 9 months of the year when we won't be using the AC heavily. The other three months we'll likely have a $200 bill instead of a $300 one. Oversizing a system doesn't pay since the utility is only paying .02 cents a KwH for your usage and not much more for any excess you generate. The retail price right now is ~.12 cents a KwH.

Battery tech - if only, if only.... A breakthrough there would be extremely disruptive to the utilities, not to mention the auto suppliers who focus on fuel delivery and gas engines. I'd go off the grid in a flash, like our Taos friends who are way out in the sticks.

Steve....around here (Ohio), there isn't much in the way of an "alternaitve" energy push. Every once in a great while I'll hear of someone who put solar panels on their homes, have their own personal electric generating windmill in the back yard, and sell's energy back to the power company because they are producing more than they can use. But, those folks are way in the fringe around here.

I read another blurb last night stating that even wilh the low gas prices a few weeks ago, electric vehicle sales rose, as did hybird sales. So, price support for oil/gas just doesn't exist in any meaningful way.

stever

Yeah, a Prius is on our list but there's no super killer deals, although there was a downward blip when gas prices hit that low spot not that long ago. If we got a second car, a Leaf would work just fine for errands.

There was one big solar array at the town where we shopped while living in the UP. It was definitely an outlier, and often was compromised by the snow load on it. But the sun shines at night so that could be another disruptive tech, even for Ohio.

Fun times if nothing else.

henryn

stever said:

Battery tech - if only, if only.... A breakthrough there would be extremely disruptive to the utilities, not to mention the auto suppliers who focus on fuel delivery and gas engines. I'd go off the grid in a flash, like our Taos friends who are way out in the sticks.

What was it Robert Heinlein called it, a "shipstone"? You put energy in, it stores it indefinitely with no loss, and on demand releases every bit of the energy that you put in. If such a thing existed, and were reasonably priced, all cars would be electric, period, end of story. Every home would have solar panels. The world would be an entirely different place.

stever

Nah, they'd pass a law so that you'd have to buy the fuel for your Shipstone from the electric utility. Heck, they're about there already (and making strange bedfellows out of Sierra Clubbers and Tea Partiers down in Florida per utilitydive.com).

Remind you of something? Like NADA and Tesla? Fun times indeed.

robr2

stever said:

Nah, they'd pass a law so that you'd have to buy the fuel for your Shipstone from the electric utility. Heck, they're about there already (and making strange bedfellows out of Sierra Clubbers and Tea Partiers down in Florida per utilitydive.com).

Remind you of something? Like NADA and Tesla? Fun times indeed.

There are about 2 dozen groups supporting a ballot initiative to open up the Florida solar market that would be undermined by this bill proposal. The Sierra Club is opposing this bill as it could force solar owners who wish to remain connected to the grid pay higher fees to continue to do so and it would give the Public Service Commission broad powers to dictate where solar (including residential) could and could not be placed. The Tea Party is concerned about government oversight. Yes strange bedfellows.

Florida utilities feel that solar is not effective because of the state's cloud cover. Well they better get in touch with those silly state tourism folks who market the place as THE SUNSHINE STATE!!!

stever

NM has 'em beat. No hurricanes either. Only 50°F but I'm typing outside in the morning sun with just a long sleeved T and sweats on.

robr2

That's unfortunate. A strong alternative energy push really has to start with government. I know that's not the most popular thing to say in some circles, but it's true.

From what I found, Ohio doesn't have very strong government support for alternative energy. It looks like in May of 2014, they pushed back implementation of the state's alternative energy goal for 2 years. The requirement for utilities to use solar is only .5% by 2026 - here in MA it's the same .5% (1600 MW) but it's due by 2020 and that is due to the original goal of 400 MW by 2017 was met 3 years early. The state doesn't allow leasing residential solar equipment nor does the state or power companies provide any rebates for the purchase of equipment.
-
Until Ohio starts to get serious about supporting alternative energy sources, then consumers won't spend the $25K or so for a proper solar system. Here in MA, I see solar panels all over the place. The state has offered incentives/rebate and gotten power companies to do so as well so the consumer take rate is growing. My wife has even said that maybe we should look at them even though the panels would be on the front of the house.

imidazol97

robr2 said:

Florida utilities feel that solar is not effective because of the state's cloud cover. Well they better get in touch with those silly state tourism folks who market the place as THE SUNSHINE STATE!!!

LOL!

graphicguy

robr2 said:

stever said:

Nah, they'd pass a law so that you'd have to buy the fuel for your Shipstone from the electric utility. Heck, they're about there already (and making strange bedfellows out of Sierra Clubbers and Tea Partiers down in Florida per utilitydive.com).

Remind you of something? Like NADA and Tesla? Fun times indeed.

There are about 2 dozen groups supporting a ballot initiative to open up the Florida solar market that would be undermined by this bill proposal. The Sierra Club is opposing this bill as it could force solar owners who wish to remain connected to the grid pay higher fees to continue to do so and it would give the Public Service Commission broad powers to dictate where solar (including residential) could and could not be placed. The Tea Party is concerned about government oversight. Yes strange bedfellows.

Florida utilities feel that solar is not effective because of the state's cloud cover. Well they better get in touch with those silly state tourism folks who market the place as THE SUNSHINE STATE!!!

Forrest for the trees, it sounds like.

Funny stuff.....if cloud cover is so bad, as they claim, the market will take care of itself. Sounds like a power grab to me (literally and firuatively). Somebody is afraid they either aren't going to get their share of the pie, or that they're pushing cake instead of the other guys' pies.

imidazol97

stever said:

NM has 'em beat. No hurricanes either. Only 50°F but I'm typing outside in the morning sun with just a long sleeved T and sweats on.

I'm ready to buy a condo in Florida after the several cold days and nights the last 5 weeks or more.

imidazol97

Ohio, near Dayton:



World's largest installation of this brand of wind generators.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

stever said:

NM has 'em beat. No hurricanes either. Only 50°F but I'm typing outside in the morning sun with just a long sleeved T and sweats on.

I'm ready to buy a condo in Florida after the several cold days and nights the last 5 weeks or more.

Some people are doing that. One lady told us they were supposed to be staying here for 3 months, they are from Pennsylvania. She went out and put a downpayment on a house and is planning on being here year round....then she told her husband!

Talk about discussing things with your spouse! He seems to be very easy going though, he said he'll go along with it.

stever

@imidazol97, too many moving parts. Wind to solar is like ICE to EVs.

boomchek

Just chiming in on the dealership turnover topic. It is very difficult to find and keep good salespeople, that do enjoy what they're doing and stay loyal. Especially ones that management doesn't need to babysit or deal with their personal issues.

There are 5 types of sales people that typically work in a dealership:

1-Loyal long term above average sellers that need very little supervision (typically 1-2 per dealership)

2-Loyal long term below average to average sellers that need a push from time to time to meet their targets but are easy to manage and although might complain from time to time cause no trouble hence they're kept around.

3-Average sellers that do ok but typically complain about everything including dealer operations, inventory, prices, co-workers, management, and create a bad atmosphere among the sales guys. They usually get canned for the negative attitude more than anything.

4-Poor sellers that sometimes try but don't do well, aren't motivated, and should leave, but don't want to on their own and instead wait until they're let go.

5-Super sellers, that come in with a bang, stay on top for several months, and leave on their own with a bang. From experience guys like this have a lot of personal issues, and all sorts of addictions (drugs, alcohol, gambling), which unfortunately makes them work hard and outsell everyone, but they're almost impossible to keep in check because as soon as pay day comes they disappear for days until they're broke. Management at some dealerships usually keeps them around because even though they have issues and bring tons of drama they do sell a lot, and eventually they disappear to another dealership/job/state/city when their problems catch up to them at their current work.

The last 2 types of sellers (4 and 5) turn over frequently, and would represent a 1/3 of the sales force. The 2nd and 3rd types stick around regardless of what the pay plan is because they are comfortable where they are.

The 1st types (loyal long term above average guys) tend to do well no matter where they go or what they sell. They'll stay loyal as long as the money and the environment fits their lifestyle. However they will leave if they think they're not treated or paid fairly. Or if another company offers them a more lucrative package.

When dealerships change the pay plans, they anticipate that a small part of the sales force will leave but will pitch it in a way that makes it seem like everyone will make more money. They hope it's the low sellers and not the loyal guys that end up leaving.

cdnpinhead

henryn said:

Every home would have solar panels. The world would be an entirely different place.

In the meantime, coal and nuclear power generate the majority of the electricity. Even in the "perfect" world you outline, there's still a lot of industrial demand for power that isn't going to be addressed with rooftop collectors. The desert pilot programs in CA have generated (sorry) all kinds of negative results, not the least of which is flaming birds that happened to fly through the danger zone.

For now, most people who drive electric vehicles need to come to terms with the fact that they're driving a coal-powered (or, gasp, worse yet, a nuclear-powered) car.