Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Michaell

Travel notes...

1. My mom turns 82 at the end of the month. I was chatting with my sister earlier today and she tells me that her and her family are going to go up and visit her. All social distancing protocols will be in effect - masks, 6 feet separation, etc.
2. My company is making me take 10 days of PTO before the end of August. I am hoping to take a week in August and have a road trip out to California to visit family. I too am hoping that gas stations and hotels are open and available along the way.
3. My son and his wife have been planning to take a cruise in the Baltic later this summer. I don't know whether that's going to happen or not.

houdini1

abacomike said:

bwia said:

I'm not complaining but here is our reality.

We are stuck down here in the Caribbean. Nothing is coming in or leaving the island. Curfew from 6pm to 6am and all businesses are closed, but for a few hours on weekdays. On weekends we are forced to stay in place.

Meanwhile, in Boston, we are yet to collect rent for the year on our condo unit. Yet, we have to pay property taxes and condo fees. The irony of all this is that the condo association had to raise fees because of excessive water usage due to people quarantined at home and excessive hand washing. In other words we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Thank God though we no longer have a mortgage on that property.

That's the first time I ever heard the comment, "...we are stuck down here in the Caribbean...! Honestly, have any of you guys ever heard such a comment? 😜🤪

I've heard comments like:

We're lavishing down here in the...
We're both getting tan down here...
We're both drinking Mai Tai's here...
We wish we could live here in the...

All kidding aside, bwia and the rest of us are in the same boat no matter where you live - even in a tropical paradise! 😋👍

Things will get better - we just need a bit of patience and a hopeful outlook. 🤓

I an fond of the saying, "No matter where you go, there you are".

houdini1

imidazol97 said:

kyfdx said:

imidazol97 said:

Still waiting for any stimulus check. Don't use bank account for tax refunds, so will have to be a check. Probably will use it to take a trip to visit folks, and put the other 2k in an aggressive mutual fund.

Direct deposit. Ours arrived on 04/15

Ours will get here, sometime. LOL Of course, I haven't paid 2019 taxes officially yet since not due yet. Haven't signed and mailed. Next project.

We haven't got a check yet either. I have mailed my tax return, but not the payment yet. SS has my direct deposit info. but not IRS. I am thinking mid May, maybe.

suydam

Re the documentary— it’s a muti-part series by Ken Burns called Country Music. It aired on PBS but I’m sure it’s available to stream somewhere.

kyfdx

suydam said:

Re the documentary— it’s a muti-part series by Ken Burns called Country Music. It aired on PBS but I’m sure it’s available to stream somewhere.

If it's free, it would be on the PBS Video APP. (which you could stream to your smart TV)

Otherwise, it looks like it's purchase only.

houdini1

carnaught said:

Speaking of weather, does anyone remember a frequent poster on these boards who is a meteorologist? His mother smuggled the children out of Albania in the 50’s or 60’s and he wrote a book about it. I think he resides in Kansas City? Was his Edmund’s name Cyclone?

Where is he, Marco, iluv, isell and others?

I remember him. Last I remember he was posting on the stock market and investing board. That was a couple of years ago. Yes, Cyclone, not from K.C. though.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:

we have a trip booked (with a bunch of the family) to Italy next April. Hopefully that still works out. But at this point, I kinda wish it never came together.

longer driving trips is more likely going forward. Of the places on our short list to visit, some will work. I am fine driving to Nashville (I think that is 12 hours). Denver, either means flying or not going. Savannah/Myrtle beach, I can make that drive too, about 10 hours. 10 seems like a good max, since I can do that in one day without really being too much pain. 12 is getting up there, anything more than that is probably not worth driving and splitting up the trip with a stopover.

I wanted to try and take the wife to Nashville in October for our Anniversary. That’s just not going to happen. Too far to drive for a long weekend.

Would love a trip to Nashville...stay at the Gaylord and see Opryland!

Opryland is long gone, it's been torn down and a mall has replaced it. So sad as a teenager I lived maybe 5 miles from Opryland and have great memories of the place.

The original hall was torn down, but the new auditorium is still there isn't it.....next to the hotel?
https://www.opry.com/
We went a few times about 15 years ago....beautiful auditorium. I am not a big country fan but seeing these performers live was special. And probably the loyalist fans anywhere........great crowd. The show was on every day and was broadcast live....they did the commercials right from the stage during the show.

OK you're talking about the Grand Ole Opry which is still there. Opryland was an amusement park that was right next door to the Grand Ole Opry. Opryland had rides but was better known for having many shows, many of which were very high quality productions. The hotel there is an experience in itself.

The original hall, the Ryman Auditorium still stands, I saw my first Opry show there. It's in the downtown Nashville area and you can take tours of it. If you go to the current auditorium you will see a circle mid stage, that's flooring from the stage at the Ryman Auditorium.

ab348

Interesting that we had the discussion mentioning Opryland and TNN earlier. Right now on Fox Sports they are showing a NASCAR truck race from 1998 as aired on TNN, with Eli Gold, Buddy Baker and Glen Jarrett on the call.

This stuff is apparently all archived somewhere, but until now you seldom got to see it aside from blurry VHS transfers on YouTube.

imidazol97

suydam said:

That was a fabulous documentary. We loved the footage of the old Ryland Auditorium. Marty Stuart’s commentary throughout was just wonderful.

I'm glad someone else saw it and appreciated it.

imidazol97

@ab348
This may be it. https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2019/10/01/ken-burns-country-music-nashville/3824695002/

http://kenburns.com/films/country-music/

https://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/music/country-mile/2019/09/09/ken-burns-country-music-documentary-pbs-how-to-watch/2268750001/

The video is for sale online. I checked PBS and they don't seem to stream it.




Our public library has the DVD and offers the digital download version. So check your public library. The library has been closed for weeks, so the DVD won't be available for a while. But on the digital editions are available.

From what the Tennessean said, I think I came in on the later parts and was attracted to the names that I remembered in the parts of the series I came across. I'd keep seeing the repeats of those editions as I scanned for programs on our cable system. I'd repeat watching episodes. We get 3 different PBS feeds on our cable.

And least but not last, just wait a few months and it's likely air again on PBS. I'm watching bits of the movie about T\he Roosevelts again as I come across them--another Ken Burns project. I think it's been maybe 6 or more months since I saw various episodes the first time on The Roosevelts.

Also watch for
The National Parks: America's Best Idea by Ken Burns.

benjaminh

In the US for $60 a year you can join PBS Passport, which allows you to stream lots of past programs, including Country Music. This music isn't usually my genre (although once in a while I listen to SiriusXM 59, which is the Willie Nelson "old country" station), but this epic documentary is excellent, like everything done by Ken Burns imho.

https://www.pbs.org/show/country-music/

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Reading the wiki page about Opryland leads one to the conclusion that it suffered from mismanagement at several points during its lifespan despite having periods of great success. There was a reference there to new management making the statement a few years after the place was demolished and turned into a mall that there was no business case for ever having done so.

It is a somewhat sore point for me to read the permutations of the various businesses that came out of Opryland. I am/was not a huge country music fan generally, though I admired some of the more talented performers, and so enjoyed some of the old TNN programming in the late '80s/early '90s. Plus they had a lot of motorsports programming on the weekend along with Nascar. The channel was wrecked by several different management/ ownership groups and now is just another channel carrying crummy programming like most of the others on cable.

One problem with Opryland was that is was situated along the Cumberland river in an area prone to flooding. Plus it suffered from neglect as many attractions and facilities were not properly maintained. It finally got to the point that it wasn't fiscally feasible to bring it up to snuff. I lived near the intersection of I-40 and Briley Parkway which is 10 minutes away from that area. I have fond memories of Opryland.

snakeweasel

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

That is a tough one bwia....and many are in similar situations.
I am glad we don't have the business these days.......we would probably have to lay off 12 people, we would have rent of $12000 a month, an inventory of $300000 worth of books........and not many retailers open to ship them too.....and very little income coming in.
I am not a financial wizard like some here but one friend had what seemed like a pretty good idea. Everything should get frozen, all payments, if it lasts 3 months you resume payments when this is over. Banks don't charge interest, no one collects money. Might be less stress on the economy than pouring money in.
*for something like that condo, might have to pay a percentage of rent to cover costs - taxes, water, etc)

A similar idea would be to stop all payments for 3 months or however many months this crisis lasts and just add them to the back end of the loan. Can't see how anyone would be hurt to bad by that.

Well the finance companies still have bill's to pay and people to pay.

graphicguy

28firefighter said:

We are in the process of cancelling our Alaska cruise for August. I’m so depressed.

Got one still on the docket to Alaska for October. We’re feeling pretty good about it.

ab348

Ah, the Burns series. I caught a bit of one of the early segments of it and didn't care for it much so I skipped the rest, unfortunate for me. I find the Burns style of film making at times somewhat difficult to take in long doses.

suydam

I often agree, and this one is different because of the music.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:

we have a trip booked (with a bunch of the family) to Italy next April. Hopefully that still works out. But at this point, I kinda wish it never came together.

longer driving trips is more likely going forward. Of the places on our short list to visit, some will work. I am fine driving to Nashville (I think that is 12 hours). Denver, either means flying or not going. Savannah/Myrtle beach, I can make that drive too, about 10 hours. 10 seems like a good max, since I can do that in one day without really being too much pain. 12 is getting up there, anything more than that is probably not worth driving and splitting up the trip with a stopover.

I wanted to try and take the wife to Nashville in October for our Anniversary. That’s just not going to happen. Too far to drive for a long weekend.

Would love a trip to Nashville...stay at the Gaylord and see Opryland!

Opryland is long gone, it's been torn down and a mall has replaced it. So sad as a teenager I lived maybe 5 miles from Opryland and have great memories of the place.

The original hall was torn down, but the new auditorium is still there isn't it.....next to the hotel?
https://www.opry.com/
We went a few times about 15 years ago....beautiful auditorium. I am not a big country fan but seeing these performers live was special. And probably the loyalist fans anywhere........great crowd. The show was on every day and was broadcast live....they did the commercials right from the stage during the show.

OK you're talking about the Grand Ole Opry which is still there. Opryland was an amusement park that was right next door to the Grand Ole Opry. Opryland had rides but was better known for having many shows, many of which were very high quality productions. The hotel there is an experience in itself.

The original hall, the Ryman Auditorium still stands, I saw my first Opry show there. It's in the downtown Nashville area and you can take tours of it. If you go to the current auditorium you will see a circle mid stage, that's flooring from the stage at the Ryman Auditorium.

Thanks....interesting.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

That is a tough one bwia....and many are in similar situations.
I am glad we don't have the business these days.......we would probably have to lay off 12 people, we would have rent of $12000 a month, an inventory of $300000 worth of books........and not many retailers open to ship them too.....and very little income coming in.
I am not a financial wizard like some here but one friend had what seemed like a pretty good idea. Everything should get frozen, all payments, if it lasts 3 months you resume payments when this is over. Banks don't charge interest, no one collects money. Might be less stress on the economy than pouring money in.
*for something like that condo, might have to pay a percentage of rent to cover costs - taxes, water, etc)

A similar idea would be to stop all payments for 3 months or however many months this crisis lasts and just add them to the back end of the loan. Can't see how anyone would be hurt to bad by that.

Well the finance companies still have bill's to pay and people to pay.

But, their bills get frozen too! No one has to pay, until it is over. Might cost less than giving away money. I know of people who are glad to have a few months off work...and collect $2000 a month - that is what they get here.

driver100

ab348 said:

Ah, the Burns series. I caught a bit of one of the early segments of it and didn't care for it much so I skipped the rest, unfortunate for me. I find the Burns style of film making at times somewhat difficult to take in long doses.

I would like to see it...but, would be more interested in the 50s to the present probably. Took 8 years to make!

driver100

houdini1 said:

abacomike said:

bwia said:

I'm not complaining but here is our reality.

We are stuck down here in the Caribbean. Nothing is coming in or leaving the island. Curfew from 6pm to 6am and all businesses are closed, but for a few hours on weekdays. On weekends we are forced to stay in place.

Meanwhile, in Boston, we are yet to collect rent for the year on our condo unit. Yet, we have to pay property taxes and condo fees. The irony of all this is that the condo association had to raise fees because of excessive water usage due to people quarantined at home and excessive hand washing. In other words we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Thank God though we no longer have a mortgage on that property.

That's the first time I ever heard the comment, "...we are stuck down here in the Caribbean...! Honestly, have any of you guys ever heard such a comment? 😜🤪

I've heard comments like:

We're lavishing down here in the...
We're both getting tan down here...
We're both drinking Mai Tai's here...
We wish we could live here in the...

All kidding aside, bwia and the rest of us are in the same boat no matter where you live - even in a tropical paradise! 😋👍

Things will get better - we just need a bit of patience and a hopeful outlook. 🤓

I an fond of the saying, "No matter where you go, there you are".

Yeh, how does that always happen?

abacomike

Finally found another half-way decent series on Netflix, "The Last Kingdom"! It takes place in the mid 800's AD in the British Isles when England was split up into kingdoms laden with the church power and the Danes were attempting to capture the lands.

Slow moving at times, but with patience I was able to dig into it. Nice scenic views, torture, sword fighting and killing with a bit of sexuality inserted for a romantic take of the times. I am into season 2 episode 3 with a total of 4 seasons.

It takes my mind off our environment and puts me into a sort of trance. Give it a try. 🤙

omarman

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

That is a tough one bwia....and many are in similar situations.
I am glad we don't have the business these days.......we would probably have to lay off 12 people, we would have rent of $12000 a month, an inventory of $300000 worth of books........and not many retailers open to ship them too.....and very little income coming in.
I am not a financial wizard like some here but one friend had what seemed like a pretty good idea. Everything should get frozen, all payments, if it lasts 3 months you resume payments when this is over. Banks don't charge interest, no one collects money. Might be less stress on the economy than pouring money in.
*for something like that condo, might have to pay a percentage of rent to cover costs - taxes, water, etc)

A similar idea would be to stop all payments for 3 months or however many months this crisis lasts and just add them to the back end of the loan. Can't see how anyone would be hurt to bad by that.

Well the finance companies still have bill's to pay and people to pay.

But, their bills get frozen too! No one has to pay, until it is over. Might cost less than giving away money. I know of people who are glad to have a few months off work...and collect $2000 a month - that is what they get here.

Banks don't charge interest? Nobody collects money? Omaroni says Abracadabra!

driver100

omarman said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

That is a tough one bwia....and many are in similar situations.
I am glad we don't have the business these days.......we would probably have to lay off 12 people, we would have rent of $12000 a month, an inventory of $300000 worth of books........and not many retailers open to ship them too.....and very little income coming in.
I am not a financial wizard like some here but one friend had what seemed like a pretty good idea. Everything should get frozen, all payments, if it lasts 3 months you resume payments when this is over. Banks don't charge interest, no one collects money. Might be less stress on the economy than pouring money in.
*for something like that condo, might have to pay a percentage of rent to cover costs - taxes, water, etc)

A similar idea would be to stop all payments for 3 months or however many months this crisis lasts and just add them to the back end of the loan. Can't see how anyone would be hurt to bad by that.

Well the finance companies still have bill's to pay and people to pay.

But, their bills get frozen too! No one has to pay, until it is over. Might cost less than giving away money. I know of people who are glad to have a few months off work...and collect $2000 a month - that is what they get here.

Banks don't charge interest? Nobody collects money? Omaroni says Abracadabra!

Love it!
Especially that bowling alley trick.....should be on America's Got Talent.

tjc78

So weird at the Jersey shore today. We picked up some bagels from a place we know and took a walk on the beach (short walk kinda cold) then up the boardwalk. So so empty. Normally this time of year all restaurants and shops will be open and bustling.

Few Pics.

bwia

Would you believe the most popular music genre in Saint Lucia is Country and Western music? That music was brought in by American GI's when they were building an American Airforce Base at Vieux Forte on the southern part of the island during WWII.

Even today, Country music is the most requested genre on the radio. And of course all the old favorite artists are still very popular as if time has stood still.

driver100

bwia said:

Would you believe the most popular music genre in Saint Lucia is Country and Western music?

Even today, Country music is the most requested genre on the radio. And of course all the old favorite artists are still very popular as if time has stood still.

Interesting! But, I can see it, has a beat, real emotions, real words, good voices, timeless themes, usually tells a story, and is a lot better than a lot of other stuff out there.

stickguy

beach is empty. Probably partly because it is cold and windy this weekend. And because all you can do is walk or run, not stopping, sitting or sunning!

carnaught

Hey, has anybody watched Catastrophe or Upload on Amazon Prime? The former is mindless, the latter is futuristic/sci fi.

I don’t like anything too heavy as the news is already .

tjc78

stickguy said:

beach is empty. Probably partly because it is cold and windy this weekend. And because all you can do is walk or run, not stopping, sitting or sunning!

Saw a live shot of WW from an hour ago. Got much busier since it warmed up a bit.

Took the long way back to our place. Ocean Drive from North WW through Stone Harbor, Avalon and Sea Isle. Gorgeous drive today. Very quiet.

stickguy

I really hope by June they are relatively normally open. Would suck to not get our annual week rental in SH. Third week of July. I just want the beach, Borghis, a couple breweries, and Fred's open. That will take care of me! Oh, Springer's too would be nice (but my wife would miss it much more).

tjc78

Yeah we are already missing everything. Not being able to go to a nice Mother’s Day brunch was tough today.

driver100

carnaught said:

Hey, has anybody watched Catastrophe or Upload on Amazon Prime? The former is mindless, the latter is futuristic/sci fi.

I don’t like anything too heavy as the news is already .

Carnaught....not in the mood for anything to heavy like you say....not intense, no too much violence or gore, no digital bomb ticking off, no assault weapons. I find a lot of the new shows seem like they came off an assembly line.

ab348

I saw the trailer for Upload. That was enough to make me want to skip it.

Last night I watched a couple of new-to-me episodes of Salvage Hunters: Classic Car on Youtube. It is like a different version of Wheeler Dealers from the old days in some ways, made in Britain, well done. The creator of WD is involved to some extent behind the scenes, along with Paul, Edd's former mechanic helper. There are 3 or 4 seasons of it on Youtube. I like it, certainly far better than what WD is now.

venture

Since it's Mother's Day and you can't go out to eat - or do much of anything. I went and got food at the place I went to last week that has the parking lot pickup so Mrs. venture didn't have to prepare anything.

This time I didn't tell the girl on the phone to add a tip. I paid the tip in cash.

I thought I killed the young girl! I gave her a $100 bill and she just froze and mumbled something. I'm not exactly sure what she said...lol.

venture

I ordered 4 packs of 100 cable ties from Amazon a week, or so, ago. I didn't need fast shipping for about $8 so I opted for the free shipping where they Scotch tape it on the back of a turtle and send it on out.

They were delivered today, SUNDAY, by the USPS. I wonder why they are experiencing money problems? (I know it's the pension plans, etc., but man, what a waste)

jmonroe1

houdini1 said:

stickguy said:

imidazol97 said:

I've found the tire pressure sensors to be within 1 pound of true reading when the tire is cool. So I
trust them when i back the car out of the garage in the morn and tires are 60 deg when they update the
reading at 25 mph or so.

Same here. Mine seems very accurate.

I just glance at the tires and if none of them are flat on the bottom I am good to go.

I once had an old Chevy that had flats on the top. That’s when I decided to buy a Pontiac.

jmonroe

imidazol97

jmonroe1 said:

houdini1 said:

stickguy said:

imidazol97 said:

I've found the tire pressure sensors to be within 1 pound of true reading when the tire is cool. So I
trust them when i back the car out of the garage in the morn and tires are 60 deg when they update the
reading at 25 mph or so.

Same here. Mine seems very accurate.

I just glance at the tires and if none of them are flat on the bottom I am good to go.

I once had an old Chevy that had flats on the top. That’s when I decided to buy a Pontiac.

jmonroe

Actually all tires are going to be flat on the bottom if they are resting on the ground with weight on them.
Perhaps you could argue the size of the flat area would be very small were the tires inflated to an unacceptable high pressure...

qbrozen

carnaught said:

Hey, has anybody watched Catastrophe or Upload on Amazon Prime? The former is mindless, the latter is futuristic/sci fi.

I don’t like anything too heavy as the news is already .

I binged Upload. I enjoyed it. I'll have to look for Catastrophe.

qbrozen

We got a good laugh on the road today.

driver100

'Unbelievable': Young driver caught allegedly speeding 308 km/h on Ontario highway (191 m.p.h.)

Police say with fewer cars on the road, more people are speeding.
TORONTO -- The OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) says they caught a young driver allegedly speeding at 308 kilometres an hour on the QEW Saturday night. 3 times the speed limit!

“This is the fastest speed that I’ve ever heard of,” OPP Sgt. Kerry Schmidt said in a video posted to Twitter Sunday morning.

Schmidt said that the 19-year-old driver was in his father’s car at the time of the incident with another 19-year-old passenger alongside him.

Schmidt said that the driver was stopped near Burlington and was subsequently charged with stunt driving under the Highway Traffic Act as well as a criminal charge of dangerous driving.

The car was going so fast that drivers passing by were “honking in delight” that the vehicle had been stopped, according to Schmidt.

It looks like about a 2014.....the same year as our C 250...but it is a C 63. They said it could be up to 10 years in prison and $10000 fine!
The kids father ain't going to be too happy.

omarman

10 years in prison?! Oh Canada...

bwia

@driver, are you sure it wasn't a Hyundai Sonata? No C 250 or C 63 can drive that fast because I believe they have a speed limiter.

ab348

driver100 said:

'Unbelievable': Young driver caught allegedly speeding 308 km/h on Ontario highway (191 m.p.h.)

It looks like about a 2014.....the same year as our C 250...but it is a C 63. They said it could be up to 10 years in prison and $10000 fine!
The kids father ain't going to be too happy.

Damn Mercedes drivers! Always hooning about and driving like madmen!

tjc78

Weren’t they all limited to 155 MPH?

A lot of these crazy speeding claims lately have me wondering.

imidazol97

Maybe the computer programs for the speed limiters are like the VW/Audi computer programs for diesel engines. They faked low emissions when the car was being checked by the "authorities" but didn't work to limit anything the resting of the time.

driver100

bwia said:

@driver, are you sure it wasn't a Hyundai Sonata? No C 250 or C 63 can drive that fast because I believe they have a speed limiter.

That's a picture of it on a trailer being taken away. It says C 63 on it and the news said it was a coupe. I was surprised it could go that fast too....I didn't think regular cars went that fast....maybe 160!

driver100

tjc78 said:

Weren’t they all limited to 155 MPH?

A lot of these crazy speeding claims lately have me wondering.

Speed claims......it is the cops radar that caught him...guess that could be off, but they should be accurate these days.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

'Unbelievable': Young driver caught allegedly speeding 308 km/h on Ontario highway (191 m.p.h.)

It looks like about a 2014.....the same year as our C 250...but it is a C 63. They said it could be up to 10 years in prison and $10000 fine!
The kids father ain't going to be too happy.

Damn Mercedes drivers! Always hooning about and driving like madmen!

Since the story shows a Mercedes is probably the fastest car around we have to turn the comments into that Mercedes drivers are madmen !

abacomike

carnaught said:

Hey, has anybody watched Catastrophe or Upload on Amazon Prime? The former is mindless, the latter is futuristic/sci fi.

I don’t like anything too heavy as the news is already .

I have found a few good movies and series on Prime, Bosch and Goliath among the better ones. Lucky that Prime and Netflix load right through my Xfinity X1 cable box so I don't have to stream them through the internet - more convenient.

I am into the 3rd season episode 4 of "The Last Kingdom" on Netflix. I find it quite good.

ab348

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

'Unbelievable': Young driver caught allegedly speeding 308 km/h on Ontario highway (191 m.p.h.)

It looks like about a 2014.....the same year as our C 250...but it is a C 63. They said it could be up to 10 years in prison and $10000 fine!
The kids father ain't going to be too happy.

Damn Mercedes drivers! Always hooning about and driving like madmen!

Since the story shows a Mercedes is probably the fastest car around we have to turn the comments into that Mercedes drivers are madmen !

Would be a refreshing change from the current narrative here that attributes that sort of behavior to Audi and BMW drivers.