Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

andres3

__________

The loss is that you can't sell your asset for what it was worth prior to the collision. Semantics aside, that's the reality. That loss has to be compensated.

The reality is that your asset has been repaired and likely to a condition where the cars performance is the same as prior to the collision. At this point you are no worse off than prior to the collision. You only have a loss when you go to sell the vehicle and until then any valuation on the amount is strictly guesswork and dependent on multiple variables.

andres3 said:

It's the same as when someone buys their own "salvaged" vehicle back from the insurance company. You don't get docked if your salvaged vehicle gives you reliable performance and doesn't happen to kill you for 10 years vs being a lemon or fatality waiting to happen. Why should you be docked for keeping the car or living?

Not relevant to the discussion.

_________________

Highly unlikely in the real world called Earth. The asset has been repaired to "industry standards which is another way of saying junk standards" status and performance metrics like fit and finish, noise, rattles, vibrations, and handling are unlikely to ever be the same. Essentially you have to drive around a beater whereas before the collision it may have been a very nice car.

The point is relevant because it uses the same exact logic that you are using to defend delaying a claims payment. If the point you are making were valid, people should not be allowed to buy their salvaged vehicles back because the insurance company might have under-valued it when they were doing their valuation which is strictly guesswork and dependent on multiple variables.

andres3

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Driver, insurance is supposed to give you retail, not wholesale, value. Since they are replacing your car.

That seems logical...in SILs case he paid $24k 4 months earlier....they offered $22k. Maybe he over payed or the car depreciated that much in 2 months. Since used car prices have gone up so much I wonder if they give you today's highly inflated prices.

Maybe oldfarmer should take his hooptie out and hope someone hits it.

I wouldn't be surprised if an insurance company told @oldfarmer50 that his Carvana offer is them BUYING HIGH SELLING LOW so they can generate word of mouth and free advertising and not representative of the used car market.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I may have been involved in multiple complicated auto car claims with different insurance companies over the years.

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

I know we’ve talked about TPMS before, but my one complaint with Volvo is how bad their system is.

Got an alert on the dashboard with the driver’s rear circled. OK I haven’t checked any of them for a little while so entirely possible. Visual check, no nails and definitely not dangerously low.

I can’t find my tire gauge because I haven’t needed it for years since GM and Hyundai have pressure read outs for each tire like it should be … so I run to Wawa who has the nice pumps that beep at a preset PSI

So driver’s rear wheel first. Was at 31, topped it to 37. Rest of the tires were at 33, and brought them up to 37.

Went in grabbed coffees for the family because I’m nice and then came out to the light still on. Pull up the menu and then have to pull up the TPMS specific menu and “store pressure”. It then proceeded to “spin” and wouldn’t give green on all four corners until I drove for about 8-10 miles.

Over complicated fail. Take a page from GM on this one Volvo.

Rant over

I always do a double check with a tire gauge as TPMS's can go bad and give false readouts. The Hyundai only lets you know when a tire gets under a certain pressure and then you have to find which tire it is. The BMW gives a readout of each tires pressure but if you reset the system you have to drive a few miles for it to recalibrate and give a reading, usually less than 2 miles. The bike has no such witchcraft, however there are kits you can buy with the TPMS on the tire valve cap.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

The good news- Liberty Mutual finally spoke to the bus driver and has accepted 100% liability.

The bad news- my insurance is still at $300 less than auction value and won’t go up. I filed a complaint with the state department insurance this afternoon. I’ll see what happens.

I guess we are commenting on a July 9th post.
I know the SIL bought a used Rogue (don't ask????? ) that cost $24000.
He got run off the road by a truck - he says, but he probably did it himself - and the car was a write off. This happened 4 months after he bought it.
I don't talk to him but I hear he is really upset because he paid $24000 and they will only give him $22000.
In this case, they probably gave him the generous wholesale/trade-in price, but I am not going to waste my time explaining it....let him stew about it.

MJFloyd1......are you saying they are offering $300 under auction or wholesale price? I suppose they can try, and it might be hard to fight it....but, they might just be testing to see if they can get away with it.

Was his cost $24K OTD? If so he did real well and has no room to complain, if that $24K is before Tax Title and license he still did get a pretty good payout.

No, he paid $24k for the Rogue...plus taxes, license fees etc.
After the accident they were offering $22000.
I still don't think he has a reason to complain because of the way the system is.
They'll only give him what the car is worth to him....like if he was to trade it in on another car.
If life was fair....they would give him the amount he needed to buy the same car again...but, it doesn't work like that.

Before you said after an accident your car is worth less as a trade-in, but they can't deduct that because the insurance company doesn't know when you will be trading in your car or what condition it will be in.

When you eventually trade in your car they should give you the value if it wasn't in an accident and if it was, and then the insurance company should pay up. Why should my car be worth less, when some moron hits it?

Is life fair? Well fair is dependent on whose ox is being gored. My issue with diminished value is that it's not an exact science. First of all the true value of an item cannot be accurately assessed without a sale. So the only person who is truly qualified to determine what the new value is is the one putting out their own hard earned cash to acquire the vehicle. So an appraisal of the car may or may not be accurate (usually not). Secondly that loss of value is not realized until the disposal of the car so you're not economically impacted by the accident in relation to the value of the car until you dispose of it. Finally in the time between getting the diminished value figure and disposing the vehicle many things can happen to change the actual loss you will incur. Cars are depreciable assets so the diminished value should decrease over time alone, not to mention other events that could alter the equation.

tjc78

@snakeweasel said:
I always do a double check with a tire gauge as TPMS's can go bad and give false readouts. The Hyundai only lets you know when a tire gets under a certain pressure and then you have to find which tire it is. The BMW gives a readout of each tires pressure but if you reset the system you have to drive a few miles for it to recalibrate and give a reading, usually less than 2 miles. The bike has no such witchcraft, however there are kits you can buy with the TPMS on the tire valve cap.

Yeah need to buy a new gauge as the system still won’t give the green on any tire so something is up.

Car is due for service so if I confirm all pressures are good it’s the dealer’s problem.

ab348

A few years back I bought a Joe's Racing tire pressure gauge. At first I didn't think I liked it because it didn't hold the pressure reading when you released the chuck from the valve, but soon realized that is the way to go if you are adjusting pressures. It's a very nice piece.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

__________

The loss is that you can't sell your asset for what it was worth prior to the collision. Semantics aside, that's the reality. That loss has to be compensated.

The reality is that your asset has been repaired and likely to a condition where the cars performance is the same as prior to the collision. At this point you are no worse off than prior to the collision. You only have a loss when you go to sell the vehicle and until then any valuation on the amount is strictly guesswork and dependent on multiple variables.

andres3 said:

It's the same as when someone buys their own "salvaged" vehicle back from the insurance company. You don't get docked if your salvaged vehicle gives you reliable performance and doesn't happen to kill you for 10 years vs being a lemon or fatality waiting to happen. Why should you be docked for keeping the car or living?

Not relevant to the discussion.

_________________

Highly unlikely in the real world called Earth. The asset has been repaired to "industry standards which is another way of saying junk standards" status and performance metrics like fit and finish, noise, rattles, vibrations, and handling are unlikely to ever be the same. Essentially you have to drive around a beater whereas before the collision it may have been a very nice car.

The point is relevant because it uses the same exact logic that you are using to defend delaying a claims payment. If the point you are making were valid, people should not be allowed to buy their salvaged vehicles back because the insurance company might have under-valued it when they were doing their valuation which is strictly guesswork and dependent on multiple variables.

It is reality in the real world.

Now if industry standards is another way of saying junk standards then your car was junk when new.

Just remember metrics like fit and finish, noise, rattles et al do go down with age. Your 5 year old car with 60K miles won't be the same as when it was new. However if your repaired car isn't virtually the same as it was just prior to the accident then maybe the car should have been totaled or you had the work done at a shoddy repair place. I have had cars repaired where you really couldn't tell the difference between before and after.

Your point is not relevant because it involves a sale with cash exchanging hands which triggers realized gains or losses, I am talking about unrealized gains or losses. A completely different animal. Now I am not defending anything, I am just pointing out issues with DV and the fact that DV can and does change dependent on multiple conditions.

Now while the car may or may not have lost value you still haven't realized a loss. Is your bank account suddenly shy a few thousand? Did you mysteriously lose another asset due to this accident? NO so you haven't realized any losses. You only realize the loss when you dispose of the asset. Now if you keep that car for another year you have another year of depreciation on the car and the DV is less than it was right after the accident.

Let me ask you this, say today you got into an accident with your Audi and as part of the settlement you got $3K for DV. Now a year from now your are driving to work a little to fast for the rainy day it is when you come to a curve spin out of control into an embankment and total your vehicle will you accept $3K less due to DM? I think not.

tjc78

Pass the Popcorn

abacomike

@tjc78 said:
Pass the Popcorn

Make mine with butter and a Diet Coke. Also include a fistful of napkins - thanks! 🤪😜🤓

ab348

I'm on a strict diet that requires me to pass on all such snake/andres threads.

abacomike

My back pain has gotten so bad that I can't walk more than 300 or so feet without causing debilitating aching acute pain in both sides of my back. I have an appointment to see a neurosurgeon next Wednesday for a second opinion on how best to relieve the stenosis problem and disc protrusion at L3-L4 in my spinal column. I had a spinal fusion at L5-S1 back in 1980 so that part of my back is stabilized. According to the MRI report, L2-L3 and L4-L5 have mild stenosis, but the space between L3-L4 is seriously impinged.

I picked up a copy of the films on a disk from the MRI and the report from the hospital last week to take to the surgeon so he can review the actual filmography. The orthopedic surgeon said I need a laminectomy at the site in order to eliminate the disc protrusion hitting my spinal column and to clean our the space to free up the foramen (tube that brings the nerves through the spinal column out to parts of the body) that is being crushed by the disc.

I am assuming that if the neurosurgeon agrees with the orthopod, I will have the neurosurgeon do the laminectomy and clean-up of the space. That means another hospitalization and surgical procedure within weeks. I can't live this way - I can't shop, clean the house, do laundry, walk with my friends, etc. I just want to make sure that the surgery will alleviate the acute pain in my back and allow me to stand up straight instead of walking like a crippled old man bent over. :@

henryn

@abacomike, I feel for you. Acute pain is a terrible thing to live with. Hopefully you will get this problem taken care of quickly.

I have an appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon, it looks like my atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat) has returned. They told me if it returned they would do an ablation, which has a very high success rate. The good news is that there are no side effects (at least so far), other than a small risk of dropping dead! Apparently many people with AF suffer from side effects like shortness of breath and overall weakness, but luckily that hasn't happened to me.

In the meantime, I'm going out dancing again tonight, exercise is good for you, and you might as well have fun while exercising!

carnaught

@abacomike, if all you need is a decompression laminectomy without spinal fusion, you could expect a much quicker recovery and virtually instant pain relief. Adding a fusion of 2-3 vertebral spaces is a more difficult recovery. See what the expert advises and please mention that, not by choice, you tend to have, let’s say, nightmarish post-op recoveries. Wish you all the best and successful painless results.

houdini1

Opps.

abacomike

@henryn said:
@abacomike, I feel for you. Acute pain is a terrible thing to live with. Hopefully you will get this problem taken care of quickly.

I have an appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon, it looks like my atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat) has returned. They told me if it returned they would do an ablation, which has a very high success rate. The good news is that there are no side effects (at least so far), other than a small risk of dropping dead! Apparently many people with AF suffer from side effects like shortness of breath and overall weakness, but luckily that hasn't happened to me.

In the meantime, I'm going out dancing again tonight, exercise is good for you, and you might as well have fun while exercising!

Good luck henryn.🤓

abacomike

@carnaught said:
@abacomike, if all you need is a decompression laminectomy without spinal fusion, you could expect a much quicker recovery and virtually instant pain relief. Adding a fusion of 2-3 vertebral spaces is a more difficult recovery. See what the expert advises and please mention that, not by choice, you tend to have, let’s say, nightmarish post-op recoveries. Wish you all the best and successful painless results.

Thanks, carnaught! 🤓

carnaught

Hey, have we seen or heard from @graphicguy or @suydam lately? Hope they are both okay as I know they’ve had their issues.

ab348

carnaught said:

Hey, have we seen or heard from @graphicguy or @suydam lately? Hope they are both okay as I know they’ve had their issues.

I sent GG a private message a couple of weeks ago but have had no response.

ab348

henryn said:

@abacomike, I feel for you. Acute pain is a terrible thing to live with. Hopefully you will get this problem taken care of quickly.

I have an appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon, it looks like my atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat) has returned. They told me if it returned they would do an ablation, which has a very high success rate. The good news is that there are no side effects (at least so far), other than a small risk of dropping dead! Apparently many people with AF suffer from side effects like shortness of breath and overall weakness, but luckily that hasn't happened to me.

In the meantime, I'm going out dancing again tonight, exercise is good for you, and you might as well have fun while exercising!

So, if we're playing a game of "Can You Top This?", here's my entry.

Walking has been difficult for me the last few years because my left knee is totally shot and needs replacing. However that cannot be done until my heart is working properly. After rough open-heart surgery in 2009 that almost killed me, and a less invasive TAVI valve replacement 3 years ago, I have more heart issues now. I can only walk approx 100 feet right now because of those (I also have muscle spasms in the lower back but have no idea why - those are too minor to deal with just yet). They were originally diagnosed as atrial fibrillation like @henryn has but mine proved resistant to the usual treatments. Until they got me on Eliquis I was also having occasional but very scary stroke-like symptoms caused by the afib clots. They apparently have finally discovered that the mitral valve that was surgically replaced in 2009 is shot, and needs a new replacement. So with that news today, I am starting down that runway, with consults, tests, and work-up leading to either conventional surgery or possibly another TAVI procedure, which I would greatly prefer if they can do one (not sure if they can). I have zero quality of life right now as you can imagine.

Have at it, boys. :@

sda

Greg, I knew that you had health struggles but wasn't aware of the extent. I hope your doctor's will be able to pursue corrective solutions that greatly improve your quality of life. Best wishes, Steve

henryn

ab348 said:

henryn said:

@abacomike, I feel for you. Acute pain is a terrible thing to live with. Hopefully you will get this problem taken care of quickly.

I have an appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon, it looks like my atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat) has returned. They told me if it returned they would do an ablation, which has a very high success rate. The good news is that there are no side effects (at least so far), other than a small risk of dropping dead! Apparently many people with AF suffer from side effects like shortness of breath and overall weakness, but luckily that hasn't happened to me.

In the meantime, I'm going out dancing again tonight, exercise is good for you, and you might as well have fun while exercising!

So, if we're playing a game of "Can You Top This?", here's my entry.

Walking has been difficult for me the last few years because my left knee is totally shot and needs replacing. However that cannot be done until my heart is working properly. After rough open-heart surgery in 2009 that almost killed me, and a less invasive TAVI valve replacement 3 years ago, I have more heart issues now. I can only walk approx 100 feet right now because of those (I also have muscle spasms in the lower back but have no idea why - those are too minor to deal with just yet). They were originally diagnosed as atrial fibrillation like @henryn has but mine proved resistant to the usual treatments. Until they got me on Eliquis I was also having occasional but very scary stroke-like symptoms caused by the afib clots. They apparently have finally discovered that the mitral valve that was surgically replaced in 2009 is shot, and needs a new replacement. So with that news today, I am starting down that runway, with consults, tests, and work-up leading to either conventional surgery or possibly another TAVI procedure, which I would greatly prefer if they can do one (not sure if they can). I have zero quality of life right now as you can imagine.

Have at it, boys. :@

Really sorry to hear about your problems, hopefully they can get you fixed up. And believe me I wasn't trying to "top" anyone, my problems are not nearly as bad as @abacomike or @ab348. For which I am very grateful. I am relatively pain free, able to enjoy life, and I hope that both of you make it back to that state and soon.

abacomike

@ab348 said:
So, if we're playing a game of "Can You Top This?", here's my entry.

Walking has been difficult for me the last few years because my left knee is totally shot and needs replacing. However that cannot be done until my heart is working properly. After rough open-heart surgery in 2009 that almost killed me, and a less invasive TAVI valve replacement 3 years ago, I have more heart issues now. I can only walk approx 100 feet right now because of those (I also have muscle spasms in the lower back but have no idea why - those are too minor to deal with just yet). They were originally diagnosed as atrial fibrillation like @henryn has but mine proved resistant to the usual treatments. Until they got me on Eliquis I was also having occasional but very scary stroke-like symptoms caused by the afib clots. They apparently have finally discovered that the mitral valve that was surgically replaced in 2009 is shot, and needs a new replacement. So with that news today, I am starting down that runway, with consults, tests, and work-up leading to either conventional surgery or possibly another TAVI procedure, which I would greatly prefer if they can do one (not sure if they can). I have zero quality of life right now as you can imagine.

Sounds awful, ab348, just terrible to be almost at a standstill in life until medicine can find a way of easing or fixing our problems. This is no fun at all and our bodies are breaking down under the strains of daily living. Shopping, cleaning, doing laundry and cooking are difficult tasks.

stickguy

Like the old saying goes, getting old isn’t for sissies.

Sorry to hear of all the issues some are having. Even just having a slightly creaky back is a drag but nothing as bad as Mikes problems.

abacomike

I just filled the car up with PUG at Costco - $3.19.9 a gallon. 5 months ago, I was paying $2.43.9 a gallon. That’s over a 30% increase in just 5 months at Costco. Prices at the major brand gas stations for PUG are averaging $3.80 a gallon.

I’ve noticed a huge increase in the price of food. 5 months ago, I was spending about $300 a month for groceries. Now I am spending close to $370 a month for those same groceries. The cost of living is beginning to skyrocket with no end in sight and the FED sees no major reason to raise interest rates to begin curbing this inflationary trend.

I just rolled over a small IRA CD at my bank at .15% per year. That’s crazy! Fifteen hundredths of one percent! From what I’ve read, the administration is stating that this inflation is expected to continue for quite a long time - 18-24 months until markets stabilize. Are we going to be reliving the late 1970’s again?

This has gotten me a little worried. 😩

laurasdada

Hoping that there is some relief for all suffering here.

My father had similar issues; walking was tough for him, and he couldn't stand still for more than a second or two without support. But, right to the end, mobile he was through his will.

I've eased off running the past year, my left knee, lower back and right hip may be telling me to stop the pounding. Amazing (and sad) how quickly I've lost "running lungs."

Hope you and Mom are enjoying your reunion, dad.

ab348

abacomike said:

Sounds awful, ab348, just terrible to be almost at a standstill in life until medicine can find a way of easing or fixing our problems. This is no fun at all and our bodies are breaking down under the strains of daily living. Shopping, cleaning, doing laundry and cooking are difficult tasks.

Yes, Mike, what you say is true. Trivial, everyday life activities have become far more challenging. In addition to the things you mentioned, I need to find somebody to mow my lawn now because I can't do that until this is fixed. When you live alone it is that much more challenging. I don't have very much faith in medicine fixing our problems though, as much as it just patches them over. I had to give up playing golf - something I thought I could do for the rest of my life - back in '08 when I was waiting for the first cardiac surgery. I could never go back to it after because my sternum never healed right after the operation and was very unstable, so making a golf swing was both dangerous and painful. Then the knee went, so that made it doubly impossible. But looking back on it, I never fully recovered from the '09 procedure and its later complications. You just have to play the hand you're dealt and do the best you can.

I didn't mean to minimize your problems or those of @henryn but the last 2 days have been tough. I forgot to mention that yesterday I was also told that I have my first cataract that will need to be addressed soon - at least that sounds like a fairly simple procedure. But man, with all this stuff falling on me all at once, I think I need to start wearing a helmet.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

I just filled the car up with PUG at Costco - $3.19.9 a gallon. 5 months ago, I was paying $2.43.9 a gallon. That’s over a 30% increase in just 5 months at Costco. Prices at the major brand gas stations for PUG are averaging $3.80 a gallon.

I’ve noticed a huge increase in the price of food. 5 months ago, I was spending about $300 a month for groceries. Now I am spending close to $370 a month for those same groceries. The cost of living is beginning to skyrocket with no end in sight and the FED sees no major reason to raise interest rates to begin curbing this inflationary trend.

I just rolled over a small IRA CD at my bank at .15% per year. That’s crazy! Fifteen hundredths of one percent! From what I’ve read, the administration is stating that this inflation is expected to continue for quite a long time - 18-24 months until markets stabilize. Are we going to be reliving the late 1970’s again?

This has gotten me a little worried. 😩

PUG is $3.90/gallon at the Costco near me.

abacomike

@snakeweasel said:
PUG is $3.90/gallon at the Costco near me.

My son and grandson are paying $3.99 a gallon for RUG in Southern California with PUG at $4.30 a gallon. Welcome to the new world!

mlevine

ab348
You need to find the right hospital that is experienced with transcatheter mitral valve replacement. A lot of places may say they do it, but research this. You go to the centers valve clinic to further evaluate if you are a good candidate. A second surgery is high risk due to all the scar tissue and structures not being where they are supposed to be during initial incision.

driver100

abacomike said:

@tjc78 said:

Pass the Popcorn

Make mine with butter and a Diet Coke. Also include a fistful of napkins - thanks! 🤪😜🤓

Butter and Diet Coke.....isn't that an oxymoron?

driver100

henryn said:

ab348 said:

henryn said:

@abacomike, I feel for you. Acute pain is a terrible thing to live with. Hopefully you will get this problem taken care of quickly.

I have an appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon, it looks like my atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat) has returned. They told me if it returned they would do an ablation, which has a very high success rate. The good news is that there are no side effects (at least so far), other than a small risk of dropping dead! Apparently many people with AF suffer from side effects like shortness of breath and overall weakness, but luckily that hasn't happened to me.

In the meantime, I'm going out dancing again tonight, exercise is good for you, and you might as well have fun while exercising!

So, if we're playing a game of "Can You Top This?", here's my entry.

Walking has been difficult for me the last few years because my left knee is totally shot and needs replacing. However that cannot be done until my heart is working properly. After rough open-heart surgery in 2009 that almost killed me, and a less invasive TAVI valve replacement 3 years ago, I have more heart issues now. I can only walk approx 100 feet right now because of those (I also have muscle spasms in the lower back but have no idea why - those are too minor to deal with just yet). They were originally diagnosed as atrial fibrillation like @henryn has but mine proved resistant to the usual treatments. Until they got me on Eliquis I was also having occasional but very scary stroke-like symptoms caused by the afib clots. They apparently have finally discovered that the mitral valve that was surgically replaced in 2009 is shot, and needs a new replacement. So with that news today, I am starting down that runway, with consults, tests, and work-up leading to either conventional surgery or possibly another TAVI procedure, which I would greatly prefer if they can do one (not sure if they can). I have zero quality of life right now as you can imagine.

Have at it, boys. :@

Really sorry to hear about your problems, hopefully they can get you fixed up. And believe me I wasn't trying to "top" anyone, my problems are not nearly as bad as @abacomike or @ab348. For which I am very grateful. I am relatively pain free, able to enjoy life, and I hope that both of you make it back to that state and soon.

I hope you are all better soon....we don't want to lose anyone around here.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

The good news- Liberty Mutual finally spoke to the bus driver and has accepted 100% liability.

The bad news- my insurance is still at $300 less than auction value and won’t go up. I filed a complaint with the state department insurance this afternoon. I’ll see what happens.

I guess we are commenting on a July 9th post.
I know the SIL bought a used Rogue (don't ask????? ) that cost $24000.
He got run off the road by a truck - he says, but he probably did it himself - and the car was a write off. This happened 4 months after he bought it.
I don't talk to him but I hear he is really upset because he paid $24000 and they will only give him $22000.
In this case, they probably gave him the generous wholesale/trade-in price, but I am not going to waste my time explaining it....let him stew about it.

MJFloyd1......are you saying they are offering $300 under auction or wholesale price? I suppose they can try, and it might be hard to fight it....but, they might just be testing to see if they can get away with it.

Was his cost $24K OTD? If so he did real well and has no room to complain, if that $24K is before Tax Title and license he still did get a pretty good payout.

No, he paid $24k for the Rogue...plus taxes, license fees etc.
After the accident they were offering $22000.
I still don't think he has a reason to complain because of the way the system is.
They'll only give him what the car is worth to him....like if he was to trade it in on another car.
If life was fair....they would give him the amount he needed to buy the same car again...but, it doesn't work like that.

Before you said after an accident your car is worth less as a trade-in, but they can't deduct that because the insurance company doesn't know when you will be trading in your car or what condition it will be in.

When you eventually trade in your car they should give you the value if it wasn't in an accident and if it was, and then the insurance company should pay up. Why should my car be worth less, when some moron hits it?

Is life fair? Well fair is dependent on whose ox is being gored. My issue with diminished value is that it's not an exact science. First of all the true value of an item cannot be accurately assessed without a sale. So the only person who is truly qualified to determine what the new value is is the one putting out their own hard earned cash to acquire the vehicle. So an appraisal of the car may or may not be accurate (usually not). Secondly that loss of value is not realized until the disposal of the car so you're not economically impacted by the accident in relation to the value of the car until you dispose of it. Finally in the time between getting the diminished value figure and disposing the vehicle many things can happen to change the actual loss you will incur. Cars are depreciable assets so the diminished value should decrease over time alone, not to mention other events that could alter the equation.

First of all the true value of an item cannot be accurately assessed without a sale.

So when a car is totalled, should the scrap and heap of metal be forced to be sold in order to determine its value? Should someone be forced to repair a "totaled" vehicle and return it to "salvaged" value? Can salvaged value be determined without a sale, and what makes that more magical than DV?

There is an inherent loss as the repairs will never restore all you paid for. You could call it loss of use.

I'm sure if a DV claimant was made to "lock in" DV value at the time of collision by releasing their rights to keep the car, they'd sign that dotted line without hesitation. The loss of the DV claim diminishing over time is one of the main reasons why Insurance companies like to delay DV claims in the first place. @mjfloyd1 Q7 would be worth less in the year 2025 if he let them take that long to settle his claim. I'm sure they'd love to take comps in 2025. There's no difference here.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

__________

The loss is that you can't sell your asset for what it was worth prior to the collision. Semantics aside, that's the reality. That loss has to be compensated.

The reality is that your asset has been repaired and likely to a condition where the cars performance is the same as prior to the collision. At this point you are no worse off than prior to the collision. You only have a loss when you go to sell the vehicle and until then any valuation on the amount is strictly guesswork and dependent on multiple variables.

andres3 said:

It's the same as when someone buys their own "salvaged" vehicle back from the insurance company. You don't get docked if your salvaged vehicle gives you reliable performance and doesn't happen to kill you for 10 years vs being a lemon or fatality waiting to happen. Why should you be docked for keeping the car or living?

Not relevant to the discussion.

_________________

Highly unlikely in the real world called Earth. The asset has been repaired to "industry standards which is another way of saying junk standards" status and performance metrics like fit and finish, noise, rattles, vibrations, and handling are unlikely to ever be the same. Essentially you have to drive around a beater whereas before the collision it may have been a very nice car.

The point is relevant because it uses the same exact logic that you are using to defend delaying a claims payment. If the point you are making were valid, people should not be allowed to buy their salvaged vehicles back because the insurance company might have under-valued it when they were doing their valuation which is strictly guesswork and dependent on multiple variables.

It is reality in the real world.

Now if industry standards is another way of saying junk standards then your car was junk when new.

Just remember metrics like fit and finish, noise, rattles et al do go down with age. Your 5 year old car with 60K miles won't be the same as when it was new. However if your repaired car isn't virtually the same as it was just prior to the accident then maybe the car should have been totaled or you had the work done at a shoddy repair place. I have had cars repaired where you really couldn't tell the difference between before and after.

Your point is not relevant because it involves a sale with cash exchanging hands which triggers realized gains or losses, I am talking about unrealized gains or losses. A completely different animal. Now I am not defending anything, I am just pointing out issues with DV and the fact that DV can and does change dependent on multiple conditions.

Now while the car may or may not have lost value you still haven't realized a loss. Is your bank account suddenly shy a few thousand? Did you mysteriously lose another asset due to this accident? NO so you haven't realized any losses. You only realize the loss when you dispose of the asset. Now if you keep that car for another year you have another year of depreciation on the car and the DV is less than it was right after the accident.

Let me ask you this, say today you got into an accident with your Audi and as part of the settlement you got $3K for DV. Now a year from now your are driving to work a little to fast for the rainy day it is when you come to a curve spin out of control into an embankment and total your vehicle will you accept $3K less due to DM? I think not.
_____________

The problem is your false viewpoint that a car can be repaired and restored to "like" performance. My definition of performance includes a whole lot more variables than yours or an insurance companies, which only probably includes that it has the same amount/count of seats and doors, and perhaps the same 0-60 and skid pad G's number (although that might be compromised too). You might also include that it's the same color (for someone that's color blind I simply consider far more factors then that. From paint edges, misaligned panels, misaligned trim, paint bubbles, paint drips, paint runs, paint durability/longevity, paint resistance to impacts (rock chips), I've seen it all completely compromised. As far as I'm concerned the whole industry is a farce.

I've dealt with several different body shops and not one has been able to restore any car at any time to exactly "before collision" standards. Some have perhaps come close, some have swung and missed. A lot of that has to do with the quality/newness of the car beforehand. No doubt a newer higher end car suffers more DV than a 20 year old Junker wannabe. The other big factor is the severity of the repairs; how many parts were touched and compromised?

So yes, for me driving around a "Diminished" car is equivalent to LOSS OF USE. It's simply not 100% loss of use, but somewhere around 20% for moderate/major repairs, and 10% for minor repairs. Deep down you know this to be true, because diminished value doesn't happen for no reason. Given the choice between two apparently equivalent cars, of course people choose the one that hasn't been ravaged. There's a reason unblemished cars are more valuable. Simply, some in the market recognize the differences, while there are those that perhaps don't, and they are the ones that buy these things (and/or salvaged titles). Good for them! Otherwise the loss of use and DV might be 40%.

This is why I know EVEN with a lease, I'm still potentially exposed to DV for the full term of the lease. A 36 month lease with a collision 1 month in would be 35 months of partial loss of use and suffering, but at least you can hand the DV over after that period back to the financial institution.

Lastly, to answer your question about crashing my Audi, I imagine if DV became code and law that it MUST be paid by Insurers they'd probably stipulate that if they pay out DV that it would be deducted from any future market value based claims settlements. If it meant that doing so wouldn't delay my DV claim and it would force Insurance companies to pay it without a stupid fight in exchange, I'd sign that document.

abacomike

@driver100 said:
Butter and Diet Coke.....isn't that an oxymoron?

No, just moronic!🤪😜

andres3

Nowhere is Insurance's view of "like performance" and "like equivalence" more apparent than in rental cars. If you are one to force the at-fault party to pay for your rental car during repairs for loss of use, they'll often try to say or argue that a Spark with 5 seats is equivalent to an Audi S4 in every way. If that doesn't work they'll say, OK, a Malibu has equivalent Cubic inches or more.

If all a car was is transportation from point A to point B (or it's size/volume), perhaps that argument could be made, but to many car people, a car is a lot more then that; plus, the Spark won't get me to work as fast as my S4

Then there's the reduced safety and increased chances of fatality metric..... You might be surprised to learn that I actually do really care about safety

mjfloyd1

@andres3 said:
First of all the true value of an item cannot be accurately assessed without a sale.

So when a car is totalled, should the scrap and heap of metal be forced to be sold in order to determine its value? Should someone be forced to repair a "totaled" vehicle and return it to "salvaged" value? Can salvaged value be determined without a sale, and what makes that more magical than DV?

There is an inherent loss as the repairs will never restore all you paid for. You could call it loss of use.

I'm sure if a DV claimant was made to "lock in" DV value at the time of collision by releasing their rights to keep the car, they'd sign that dotted line without hesitation. The loss of the DV claim diminishing over time is one of the main reasons why Insurance companies like to delay DV claims in the first place. @mjfloyd1 Q7 would be worth less in the year 2025 if he let them take that long to settle his claim. I'm sure they'd love to take comps in 2025. There's no difference here.

Please keep me out of this

andres3

Anyone remember @markcincinnati ? what happened to him? Last I remember, he was having a blast in a B8.5 S4 I think.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

@snakeweasel said:

PUG is $3.90/gallon at the Costco near me.

My son and grandson are paying $3.99 a gallon for RUG in Southern California with PUG at $4.30 a gallon. Welcome to the new world!

Checking gas buddy in downtown Chicago Rug is $3.99/ gallon and PUG is $4.84/gallon. Get out to rural Northern IL and you can knock off $0.90/gallon off those prices.

mjfloyd1

@ab348 - I hope that you are able to get your mitral valve replacement so that you can get your knee replacement and then figure out what’s wrong with your back.

This is in Canada? If so, I hope that you can get it fast tracked to have a more reasonable quality of life.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Our standards of beater is different. I have to be willing to sit in it, and possibly even get the wife in it. If I brought home a rusty 20 YO Buick she would throw both of us out.

A 2012 Civic or Camry is my definition of a Hooptie. And those are absurdly overpriced.

How much did you want to spend......2004 Camry $3800, 183000 miles...looks clean except the black marks on the hood.


You Need to Hurry This Vehicle Is Going to The Pre Auction Storage Lot, These Cars Are Offered For Sale For A Limited Period of Time Before They Are Sent to Auction, Sold AS-IS with all it's Faults, See Dealer for Details, Mechanical and Cosmetic Work may be Required, This vehicle is a Wholesale unit it will be available for sale until it is sent to the Auction,

To get one in good running order is probably going to cost $15000+
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=584433956&zip=33573&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=33573&city=Sun+City+Center&vehicleStyleCodes=SEDAN&incremental=all&modelCodeList=CAMRY&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&listingTypes=USED&sortBy=relevance&location=%5Bobject+Object%5D&maxPrice=15000&state=FL&searchByDma=false&firstRecord=0&marketExtension=include&relevanceConfig=default&searchRadius=200&isNewSearch=false&listingTypes=USED&numRecords=25&maxPrice=15000&vehicleStyleCodes=SEDAN&searchByDma=false&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=CAMRY&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=200&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=CAMRY&clickType=listing

Here’s a newer one for about the same:

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/troy-2009-toyota-camry/7351076399.html

except now it says:
This posting has been deleted by its author.
I wonder what happened?

Those salvaged cars shown also make me leery of buying used cars online when there is a shortage of good used cars...................it's a time to be extra careful. Maybe look for an estate sale car, at least it is being sold for the right reasons.

Probably sold because it was such a great bargain.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

My back pain has gotten so bad that I can't walk more than 300 or so feet without causing debilitating aching acute pain in both sides of my back. I have an appointment to see a neurosurgeon next Wednesday for a second opinion on how best to relieve the stenosis problem and disc protrusion at L3-L4 in my spinal column. I had a spinal fusion at L5-S1 back in 1980 so that part of my back is stabilized. According to the MRI report, L2-L3 and L4-L5 have mild stenosis, but the space between L3-L4 is seriously impinged.

I picked up a copy of the films on a disk from the MRI and the report from the hospital last week to take to the surgeon so he can review the actual filmography. The orthopedic surgeon said I need a laminectomy at the site in order to eliminate the disc protrusion hitting my spinal column and to clean our the space to free up the foramen (tube that brings the nerves through the spinal column out to parts of the body) that is being crushed by the disc.

I am assuming that if the neurosurgeon agrees with the orthopod, I will have the neurosurgeon do the laminectomy and clean-up of the space. That means another hospitalization and surgical procedure within weeks. I can't live this way - I can't shop, clean the house, do laundry, walk with my friends, etc. I just want to make sure that the surgery will alleviate the acute pain in my back and allow me to stand up straight instead of walking like a crippled old man bent over. :@

I feel for you. Living with chronic pain is not living.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:

@snakeweasel said:

PUG is $3.90/gallon at the Costco near me.

My son and grandson are paying $3.99 a gallon for RUG in Southern California with PUG at $4.30 a gallon. Welcome to the new world!

Checking gas buddy in downtown Chicago Rug is $3.99/ gallon and PUG is $4.84/gallon. Get out to rural Northern IL and you can knock off $0.90/gallon off those prices.

I feel blessed to be only paying about $3.15 for RUG.

ab348

mlevine said:

ab348
You need to find the right hospital that is experienced with transcatheter mitral valve replacement. A lot of places may say they do it, but research this. You go to the centers valve clinic to further evaluate if you are a good candidate. A second surgery is high risk due to all the scar tissue and structures not being where they are supposed to be during initial incision.

I appreciate the comment, but I am in Canada, so there is no shopping around for this stuff. Having said that, the heart center here is pretty advanced and does cases for all of Eastern Canada.

roadburner

carnaught said:

Hey, have we seen or heard from @graphicguy or @suydam lately? Hope they are both okay as I know they’ve had their issues.

I'd be happy to hear from GG, at any rate...

sda

andres3 said:

Anyone remember @markcincinnati ? what happened to him? Last I remember, he was having a blast in a B8.5 S4 I think.

I remember him. He was quite the Audi enthusiast and seemed to have a good rapport with the dealership he did business.

cdnpinhead

andres3 said:

Anyone remember @markcincinnati ? what happened to him? Last I remember, he was having a blast in a B8.5 S4 I think.

Mark has been absent for years. I always enjoyed his posts, and at the time he was the Audi guru. What I noticed was that if his business was good, he didn't post as much. Hopefully his business has been excellent.

carnaught

@ab348 and @henryn, I as well as all of us here wish you the best with your medical issues - thoughts and prayers are with you.

fintail

Highest since the 2011-14 era, I think. I do recall paying around $4.50 for PUG in maybe the summer of 08, paid something like $3.70 last weekend.

I notice grocery inflation too, and here anyway, housing prices are up 100% in 5 years and have often tripled in 10 years (while wages, you don't want to know, and some places have psychotic rent increases), I'd pay 2011 gas prices to get a 2011 house price!

abacomike said:

I just filled the car up with PUG at Costco - $3.19.9 a gallon. 5 months ago, I was paying $2.43.9 a gallon. That’s over a 30% increase in just 5 months at Costco. Prices at the major brand gas stations for PUG are averaging $3.80 a gallon.

I’ve noticed a huge increase in the price of food. 5 months ago, I was spending about $300 a month for groceries. Now I am spending close to $370 a month for those same groceries. The cost of living is beginning to skyrocket with no end in sight and the FED sees no major reason to raise interest rates to begin curbing this inflationary trend.

I just rolled over a small IRA CD at my bank at .15% per year. That’s crazy! Fifteen hundredths of one percent! From what I’ve read, the administration is stating that this inflation is expected to continue for quite a long time - 18-24 months until markets stabilize. Are we going to be reliving the late 1970’s again?

This has gotten me a little worried. 😩

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

henryn said:

@abacomike, I feel for you. Acute pain is a terrible thing to live with. Hopefully you will get this problem taken care of quickly.

I have an appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon, it looks like my atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat) has returned. They told me if it returned they would do an ablation, which has a very high success rate. The good news is that there are no side effects (at least so far), other than a small risk of dropping dead! Apparently many people with AF suffer from side effects like shortness of breath and overall weakness, but luckily that hasn't happened to me.

In the meantime, I'm going out dancing again tonight, exercise is good for you, and you might as well have fun while exercising!

So, if we're playing a game of "Can You Top This?", here's my entry.

Walking has been difficult for me the last few years because my left knee is totally shot and needs replacing. However that cannot be done until my heart is working properly. After rough open-heart surgery in 2009 that almost killed me, and a less invasive TAVI valve replacement 3 years ago, I have more heart issues now. I can only walk approx 100 feet right now because of those (I also have muscle spasms in the lower back but have no idea why - those are too minor to deal with just yet). They were originally diagnosed as atrial fibrillation like @henryn has but mine proved resistant to the usual treatments. Until they got me on Eliquis I was also having occasional but very scary stroke-like symptoms caused by the afib clots. They apparently have finally discovered that the mitral valve that was surgically replaced in 2009 is shot, and needs a new replacement. So with that news today, I am starting down that runway, with consults, tests, and work-up leading to either conventional surgery or possibly another TAVI procedure, which I would greatly prefer if they can do one (not sure if they can). I have zero quality of life right now as you can imagine.

Have at it, boys. :@

AF is nothing to fool with. That’s what got my father. I hope your condition stays stable.

jmonroe1

andres3 said:

Nowhere is Insurance's view of "like performance" and "like equivalence" more apparent than in rental cars. If you are one to force the at-fault party to pay for your rental car during repairs for loss of use, they'll often try to say or argue that a Spark with 5 seats is equivalent to an Audi S4 in every way. If that doesn't work they'll say, OK, a Malibu has equivalent Cubic inches or more.

If all a car was is transportation from point A to point B (or it's size/volume), perhaps that argument could be made, but to many car people, a car is a lot more then that; plus, the Spark won't get me to work as fast as my S4

Then there's the reduced safety and increased chances of fatality metric..... You might be surprised to learn that I actually do really care about safety

You coulda fooled me.

jmonroe