Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Sandman6472

Have Goodyear Eagle GT's on the Golf and they are excellent tires. Smooth ride and they look just like brand new with two of them being 24 months this September. Have had two replaced over the last 6 months due to nails which were not patchable. Have the road hazard protection package so pay a nominal fee and get a brand new tire. Can't complain about that but the only bad thing is have to go back to the dealer I bought them at. Luckily, it's only a 15 mile drive from the house but would be happier to use the Total Choice Tire store closer to the house. Suppose to carry Goodyear products but turned me away with both nails in the tires...told me to go back to where I bought them in Davie. Luckily, that store has great customer service and treats me well. I will continue to use them going forward and go back to Tires Plus if I want Bridgestone/Firestone tires in the future.
I also am super conservative with my tires and maybe swap them out a bit too early, while the wife does the opposite and still hasn't called about ordering her new ones at T P. Told her to have them send over 3 tires just in case they need changing as she just got a newer one recently due to a nail puncture. She has Pirelli tires on her Audi and refuses to change brands. I had Continentals but now have Goodyear Eagle's.

tjc78

I’ve said it before here… but if I’m buying tires they are Michelin. I wouldn’t even look at other brands. I’ve had the best performance and wear from every set I’ve owned whether OEM or I’ve purchased as replacements.

I was pretty upset our XC90 came with Continentals. The S60 has Michelin.

benjaminh

Yeah, the Michelin tires I've had before have always been very good. Michelins cost a bit more, unless they are on sale at Costco, but they are worth it.

Here's an in-depth interview between Tire Rack and someone from Michelin about the CrossClimate2. It's an 18-minute interview, but it really shows how much R & D goes into state-of-the-art tires like these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAVF3M9xPM

ab348

benjaminh said:

Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but I guess I didn't know that it was advisable to put on a different size of tire than what came with your vehicle. But I guess it can be done? Although then your speedometer is a bit off, and then the odometer too. Hmm. That seems a bit much for me.

https://tire-calc.com/comparison/225-55-r17-and-235-50-r17/

A wider tire would give better traction and performance, but probably have lower mpg as well.

I'm not sure mpg differences are that simple. A wider tire could have other aspects of its design and manufacture that make it get better mileage.

As others have said, a given size is not absolute in terms of dimensions across different brands/models of tires. I always found that odd but it seems there is some variation across brands. In this case the differences seem pretty insignificant.

You need to consider a whole series of points regarding tire selection. I had Goodyear as OE tires on both my '02 Intrigue and '09 Lacrosse. Slight differences in size but essentially the same tire. As they wore they became significantly noisy. I never thought their wet traction was very good even when new. On the Intrigue when I replaced them with Michelins it was a noticeable improvement. On my current ATS the OE tires were Bridgestone performance tires and they were awful. They were noisy but by far the worst aspect was that they were too performance-oriented, so initial turn-in on slight steering wheel movement was very sharp and abrupt. I found it unsafe on the expressway. The current Michelin Pilots are not that way.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

benjaminh said:

Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but I guess I didn't know that it was advisable to put on a different size of tire than what came with your vehicle. But I guess it can be done? Although then your speedometer is a bit off, and then the odometer too. Hmm. That seems a bit much for me.

https://tire-calc.com/comparison/225-55-r17-and-235-50-r17/

A wider tire would give better traction and performance, but probably have lower mpg as well.

I'm not sure mpg differences are that simple. A wider tire could have other aspects of its design and manufacture that make it get better mileage.

As others have said, a given size is not absolute in terms of dimensions across different brands/models of tires. I always found that odd but it seems there is some variation across brands. In this case the differences seem pretty insignificant.

You need to consider a whole series of points regarding tire selection. I had Goodyear as OE tires on both my '02 Intrigue and '09 Lacrosse. Slight differences in size but essentially the same tire. As they wore they became significantly noisy. I never thought their wet traction was very good even when new. On the Intrigue when I replaced them with Michelins it was a noticeable improvement. On my current ATS the OE tires were Bridgestone performance tires and they were awful. They were noisy but by far the worst aspect was that they were too performance-oriented, so initial turn-in on slight steering wheel movement was very sharp and abrupt. I found it unsafe on the expressway. The current Michelin Pilots are not that way.

My take:

Goodyear Eagles ride we’ll and had good wear but we’re not the best for handling.

Perelli P Zeros handled moderately well but wore out quick and developed a whine at 10k miles.

Michelins so far are smooth, quiet and handle noticeably better. Don’t know on wear since they are almost new.

driver100

@benjaminh
Time to pull the trigger....at least when they go on sale.
I have only heard positive things about Michelins from your experience and others including me. If you believe the science then they have made their case. If you hear anything pro or con before they go on sale, then buy them then or change your mind at that time.
It sounds like keeping your current tires could end up being false economizing, because the current tires don't sound 100% safe, they could go at a bad or inconvenient time, if one goes you will probably pay more for the tires you want.
The price of tires may even go up by next year........don't overthink it, get what you want and need.

bwia

I was doing some Googling to find some information on what percentage of millionaires lease rather than buy their cars. To my surprise 81% buy rather than lease. That's understandable since most spend less on a vehicle than one might think. For example:

How much do millionaires spend on cars?
Most of the millionaires surveyed said they never spent more than $65,000 on an automobile. Over 50 percent of these cars are American made with 3 in 10 millionaires driving a Ford F-150 pickup. Millionaires earn, save, and invest early in life.

kyfdx

For the average age of members in this discussion, most are likely millionaires. Kind of an outdated term for wealthy people. If you don't have a $million, your retirement might suck, eventually.

stickguy

I take that to mean not counting your 401k, etc. so high earners with lots of “normal” money!

kyfdx

stickguy said:

I take that to mean not counting your 401k, etc. so high earners with lots of “normal” money!

I don't know.. I count my 401K.

driver100

bwia said:

I was doing some Googling to find some information on what percentage of millionaires lease rather than buy their cars. To my surprise 81% buy rather than lease. That's understandable since most spend less on a vehicle than one might think. For example:

How much do millionaires spend on cars?
Most of the millionaires surveyed said they never spent more than $65,000 on an automobile. Over 50 percent of these cars are American made with 3 in 10 millionaires driving a Ford F-150 pickup. Millionaires earn, save, and invest early in life.

Interesting numbers that I wouldn't have guessed.
I also found;

The book reports that “nearly 37 percent” of millionaires bought their cars used.

and, 61% of wealthy people actually drive Hondas and Toyotas and Fords, just like all the rest of us. The top 10 cars for $250,000-plus households include the Mercedes E-class, the Lexus RX 350 and the BMW 5 series and 3 series

It seems that people who have built up wealth are pretty careful, they buy average cars that are under $40000. So who buys the expensive cars....high income earners who like to spend money on cars, homes, jewelry etc., but they don't necessarily save money. It seems that really wealthy people who have saved money, aren't the main buyers of fancy expensive cars.

28firefighter

@kyfdx said:
For the average age of members in this discussion, most are likely millionaires. Kind of an outdated term for wealthy people. If you don't have a $million, your retirement might suck, eventually.

What is this retirement thing you speak of?

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

@kyfdx said:

For the average age of members in this discussion, most are likely millionaires. Kind of an outdated term for wealthy people. If you don't have a $million, your retirement might suck, eventually.

What is this retirement thing you speak of?

You'll get there. It's surprising what you might do to quit your job.

Also, you might be below average age...

bwia

Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

ronsteve

@tjc78 said:
I’ve said it before here… but if I’m buying tires they are Michelin. I wouldn’t even look at other brands. I’ve had the best performance and wear from every set I’ve owned whether OEM or I’ve purchased as replacements.

I was pretty upset our XC90 came with Continentals. The S60 has Michelin.

The OEM Michelins on my Accord and on my Volvo didn’t impress me, as they only went 45k miles. Best set of tires I put on the Volvo was BF Goodrich T/A which went over 60k. Put another set on when those wore out, and also put a set on the Jetta which I now expect to need replacement due to age long before mileage.

OTOH I have been pleased with the Michelins on the RDX… I bought it with a new set and still have lots of tread after almost 44k.

driver100

bwia said:

Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

I believe a "Millionaire" has to have at least $1 million in cash or savings of some kind - not counting property or possessions. That probably narrows the field.

kyfdx

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

I believe a "Millionaire" has to have at least $1 million in cash or savings of some kind - not counting property or possessions. That probably narrows the field.

Not C$ million, though, right?

kyfdx

I'm pretty sure it's measured by Net Worth.

abacomike

@kyfdx said:
For the average age of members in this discussion, most are likely millionaires. Kind of an outdated term for wealthy people. If you don't have a $million, your retirement might suck, eventually.

I would amend your statement to include those who have excellent pension plans coupled with Social Security as an income. I budget $3000 a month for living expenses (includes car payment, insurance on Condo and car, food, clothing, HOA monthly costs, property taxes, cable TV and internet, etc.). I don’t have a mortgage remember.

That leaves $3200 a month after income taxes (net) for savings or trips, etc. So I live comfortably and drive a $75,000 new car, but don’t have anything near a million dollars in investments or cash in bank.

Of course, the kids won’t be inheriting large sums of money since all my income stops upon my death. They’ll get $165,000 for the Condo and whatever I have in the bank, which isn’t that much.

dino001

What is a pension plan?

sda

dino001 said:

What is a pension plan?

Exactly, alas

imidazol97

@benjaminh et al

Crossclimate tire review by purchaser:

https://www.chevymalibuforum.com/threads/tire-review-michelin-crossclimate-2s.119843/

oldfarmer50

kyfdx said:

For the average age of members in this discussion, most are likely millionaires. Kind of an outdated term for wealthy people. If you don't have a $million, your retirement might suck, eventually.

All my life I have tried my best to not become rich. So far so good.

tjc78

@bwia said:
Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

With some trucks costing upwards of 80K I don’t think “luxury” car sales means anything these days.

And if Acura, Volvo and Infiniti are “pretend” so is Lexus, Cadillac and Lincoln.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

Of course, the kids won’t be inheriting large sums of money since all my income stops upon my death. They’ll get $165,000 for the Condo and whatever I have in the bank, which isn’t that much.

They can sell your car for a large sum.
No life insurance policy?

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

What is a pension plan?

That’s something dinosaurs and government workers get.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50 said:
That’s something dinosaurs and government workers get.

The pension I receive is from the State of Illinois - but I contributed 50% and the State contributed 50%. It is entitled an “annuity” for teachers and educators - 8.5% was deducted from my salary and went into the pension fund.

roadburner

tjc78 said:

@bwia said:

Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

With some trucks costing upwards of 80K I don’t think “luxury” car sales means anything these days.

And if Acura, Volvo and Infiniti are “pretend” so is Lexus, Cadillac and Lincoln.

I see all the people in upmarket full size pickups and SUVs, and they likely paid 150% more than my 2er...

roadburner

From the "They walk among us- and breed!" file:
Found on a forum that shall remain nameless- and yes, the idjit was serious:

"Hey guys so i have to send my DME in to RKTunes for a tune i bought and i was wondering if i'm able to drive my car without the DME in since it's my daily?
Let me know!
Thank you!"

explorerx4

@roadburner,
I think you underestimate the amount of features and technology in those 80k trucks.
A lot of it has nothing to do with track performance, which you seem to be focused on.

snakeweasel

benjaminh said:

Yeah, the Michelin tires I've had before have always been very good. Michelins cost a bit more, unless they are on sale at Costco, but they are worth it.

Here's an in-depth interview between Tire Rack and someone from Michelin about the CrossClimate2. It's an 18-minute interview commercial, but it really shows how much R & D goes into state-of-the-art tires like these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAVF3M9xPM

There I fixed it for you.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
I think you underestimate the amount of features and technology in those 80k trucks.
A lot of it has nothing to do with track performance, which you seem to be focused on.

You missed my point entirely, I was focusing solely on the price as opposed to the perception of wealth. If people want to pay north of $60k for a truck that's their business.

explorerx4

@roadburner,
You said "I see all the people in upmarket full size pickups and SUVs, and they likely paid 150% more than my 2er....".
What's your point? Like I said, those drivers got a lot of features and technology. A versatile vehicle, too.

imidazol97

The safety of the Tesla self-driving system being investigated.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/us-agency-opens-formal-probe-into-tesla-autopilot-system/2672606/

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

bwia said:

I was doing some Googling to find some information on what percentage of millionaires lease rather than buy their cars. To my surprise 81% buy rather than lease. That's understandable since most spend less on a vehicle than one might think. For example:

How much do millionaires spend on cars?
Most of the millionaires surveyed said they never spent more than $65,000 on an automobile. Over 50 percent of these cars are American made with 3 in 10 millionaires driving a Ford F-150 pickup. Millionaires earn, save, and invest early in life.

Interesting numbers that I wouldn't have guessed.
I also found;

The book reports that “nearly 37 percent” of millionaires bought their cars used.

and, 61% of wealthy people actually drive Hondas and Toyotas and Fords, just like all the rest of us. The top 10 cars for $250,000-plus households include the Mercedes E-class, the Lexus RX 350 and the BMW 5 series and 3 series

It seems that people who have built up wealth are pretty careful, they buy average cars that are under $40000. So who buys the expensive cars....high income earners who like to spend money on cars, homes, jewelry etc., but they don't necessarily save money. It seems that really wealthy people who have saved money, aren't the main buyers of fancy expensive cars.

People who slowly build wealth tend to be more conservative with their money, not that they are cheap but they tend to hold the value of a dollar better than those who didn't. The faster one comes into money the more they have a tendency to be more of a spendthrift. This is why a lot of big time lottery winners end up broke and why family fortunes start to disappear after 3 or 4 generations. The spending habits of new money and old money tend to be wildly different.

imidazol97

roadburner said:

From the "They walk among us- and breed!" file:
Found on a forum that shall remain nameless- and yes, the idjit was serious:

"Hey guys so i have to send my DME in to RKTunes for a tune i bought and i was wondering if i'm able to drive my car without the DME in since it's my daily?
Let me know!
Thank you!"

I'm not surprised. In other car forums where people post that their car "does this" and ask what is wrong with it they expect an immediate response with a solution. Often the year, exact model, and engine info isn't included. It's also amazing how many try to describe a noise and expect a definitive diagnosis on how to fix it, usuing wanting some answer that avoids having to go to the dealership for diagnosis.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

Well the so called "millionaire next door" has very little liquid assets to buy a luxury car. Most of that money they have is tied up in homes and retirement accounts and the like.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

That’s something dinosaurs and government workers get.

The pension I receive is from the State of Illinois - but I contributed 50% and the State contributed 50%. It is entitled an “annuity” for teachers and educators - 8.5% was deducted from my salary and went into the pension fund.

You should have taught in NY. For my state pension I didn’t contribute a dime and I was just a lousy little bus driver.

explorerx4

I enjoy the "Just rolled in" YT videos.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Interesting, the luxury segment is only 5% of total car sales. And that includes some pretend luxury brands like Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, EVs, SUVs, etc. Adjusting for these anomalies, true high end luxury is probably no more 3% of the total market.

With that said, compared to the number of millionaires next door there is perhaps not enough supply true of luxury cars available to meet that potential demand.

I believe a "Millionaire" has to have at least $1 million in cash or savings of some kind - not counting property or possessions. That probably narrows the field.

All you have to do to be classified as a "millionaire" is to have a million dollars in net worth. So it would include property and other possessions.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

The safety of the Tesla self-driving system being investigated.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/us-agency-opens-formal-probe-into-tesla-autopilot-system/2672606/

Unfortunately, Tesla forgot to install idiot-proofing in their cars.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

What is a pension plan?

You don't have a pension plan?

That's OK I have two.

Actually one I can start collecting on in 18 months from an old employer that will give me around $250/month. They other is with my current employer and will likely replace 1/3rd of my current income when I retire.

In any case I should be OK in my retirement if I step in front of a bus leaving work on my last day.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

For the average age of members in this discussion, most are likely millionaires. Kind of an outdated term for wealthy people. If you don't have a $million, your retirement might suck, eventually.

All my life I have tried my best to not become rich. So far so good.

As for me I'm working on earning my second million dollars, I've already gave up on my first.

snakeweasel

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
I think you underestimate the amount of features and technology in those 80k trucks.
A lot of it has nothing to do with track performance, which you seem to be focused on.

When you are getting to that 80K range you're talking about some serious heavy duty trucks. I know that a fully loaded F-450 can push 100K but it's not your typical suburban warrior type of truck.

venture

I was talking to a friend at a baseball game tonight. He said his Hyundai (I think Sonata) just stopped on him a few days ago and he had it towed to the dealer. They called today and said they are going to put a new engine in it under warranty. He said it has 100k miles on it.

tjc78

@snakeweasel said:
When you are getting to that 80K range you're talking about some serious heavy duty trucks. I know that a fully loaded F-450 can push 100K but it's not your typical suburban warrior type of truck.

You can option a Sierra Denali 2500 to over 80K. That’s still a consumer truck. If you want a full boat 1500 it’s around 71K.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
You said "I see all the people in upmarket full size pickups and SUVs, and they likely paid 150% more than my 2er....".
What's your point? Like I said, those drivers got a lot of features and technology. A versatile vehicle, too.

My point is that the individuals driving those vehicles usually aren't perceived as being wealthy while Audi/BMW/Mercedes owners usually are. Funny thing; in my last election I said "Screw it!" and kept using a picture of an M2 in a smoking drift as my FB profile picture. My opponent showed up at events in her Edge and her husband's F150- and pointed out that I sold BMWs. I guess she nabbed all the Ford UAW members and I got everyone else.
Again, if you like full sized trucks and SUVs, have at it. Unless it's a TRX, I'll pass, thanks.

fintail

In many Seattle suburbs, a million dollars buys a virtual teardown - lots of oldsters out there driving older Civrollas with a seven figure net worth, as they bought the house for 25K in 1965 or 70K in 1983, and maybe picked up a rental similarly cheap or got mom and dad's old place, too.

Also reminds me of material from "The Millionaire Next Door", which became popular a generation ago with data compiled a generation before that. when socio-economic mobility was a bit different.

Earn, get a parental free ride early on, maybe get a pension, inherit, and also get lucky in real estate, at least from my experience.

bwia said:

I was doing some Googling to find some information on what percentage of millionaires lease rather than buy their cars. To my surprise 81% buy rather than lease. That's understandable since most spend less on a vehicle than one might think. For example:

How much do millionaires spend on cars?
Most of the millionaires surveyed said they never spent more than $65,000 on an automobile. Over 50 percent of these cars are American made with 3 in 10 millionaires driving a Ford F-150 pickup. Millionaires earn, save, and invest early in life.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
I think you underestimate the amount of features and technology in those 80k trucks.
A lot of it has nothing to do with track performance, which you seem to be focused on.

You missed my point entirely, I was focusing solely on the price as opposed to the perception of wealth. If people want to pay north of $60k for a truck that's their business.

I wonder how many of those 60K+ trucks are sold as commercial vehicles as opposed to personal use.

fintail

I am pretty sure I have read the MB with the wealthiest customer base isn't the S or SL or G etc, but the E wagon, as it is inconspicuous.

driver100 said:

bwia said:

I was doing some Googling to find some information on what percentage of millionaires lease rather than buy their cars. To my surprise 81% buy rather than lease. That's understandable since most spend less on a vehicle than one might think. For example:

How much do millionaires spend on cars?
Most of the millionaires surveyed said they never spent more than $65,000 on an automobile. Over 50 percent of these cars are American made with 3 in 10 millionaires driving a Ford F-150 pickup. Millionaires earn, save, and invest early in life.

Interesting numbers that I wouldn't have guessed.
I also found;

The book reports that “nearly 37 percent” of millionaires bought their cars used.

and, 61% of wealthy people actually drive Hondas and Toyotas and Fords, just like all the rest of us. The top 10 cars for $250,000-plus households include the Mercedes E-class, the Lexus RX 350 and the BMW 5 series and 3 series

It seems that people who have built up wealth are pretty careful, they buy average cars that are under $40000. So who buys the expensive cars....high income earners who like to spend money on cars, homes, jewelry etc., but they don't necessarily save money. It seems that really wealthy people who have saved money, aren't the main buyers of fancy expensive cars.