Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

Even when we had a house full of guests over thanksgiving I can’t remember actually running out of hot water (50 gallon unit). With just 2 of us here now it might not even be possible!

The cost differential last time I had to replace the tank was so big that the timeframe to recoup it in energy savings was probably longer than it would last. That’s the reason I gave up on that idea quick.

Interesting watching the construction going on up the street from me. Nice big houses and looks like they still just use tanks.

stickguy

Reminds me. At the time I could not figure out why is costs 4x as much for a tankless unit. Still has a heater and control module. Just no tank. So why was it $3,000 pricier?

explorerx4

Can't ever remember running out of hot water either, but I did have a rule for my kids, "No half hour shower".

kyfdx

explorerx4 said:

Can't ever remember running out of hot water either, but I did have a rule for my kids, "No half hour shower".

When I had a teenager, occasionally. I imagine with two or three, you could easily run out.

explorerx4

Even with a tankless WH, the location matters.
In my old house, the water heater was in the basement on one side of the house and the shower I used was located over the garage on the far end of the house.
It could take a couple of minutes for the hot water to arrive at the showerhead.

laurasdada

explorerx4 said:

Can't ever remember running out of hot water either, but I did have a rule for my kids, "No half hour shower".

You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.
I love me some long, hot showers. OK, maybe not 30 minutes..

Our new Bradford White electric water heater has four settings (heat pump, hybrid, electric and...), including "vacation" which you can set for any number of days.

If my net worth was as high as my electric bill, I'd have retired years ago.

jmonroe1

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

I did a spreadsheet a few years ago to figure out how broke (or not) we were, as we neared 60 and really both wanted to retire! We still have a number of prior 401ks that I never got around to closing out and moving to Vanguard (I really need to get on that!) Turned out to be more than I expected, putting everything in one place. I updated a couple of times, lastly after markets went down but before the big dip.

so I have no clue what it all comes out to now, especially since we sold/bought/moved and cashed out some equity in the process! I am just afraid to find out.

I can chart my net worth on the back of an envelope.

Same here... but, I track it, once per week.

————————————————
With the way things have gone this past year I can’t bare to do that. There are times when I don’t want to know what I don’t know.

jmonroe

stickguy

still not sure why my laptop is getting wonky, but at least figured out the workaround. For some reason the wifi connection goes bad. But not disconnecting, just extremely (like bad dial up speeds) slow. So I disconnect then reconnect the wifi (same one, that works fine on everything else) and it comes back to life.

a lot slower though than my phone. Ran the speed test, and when working normally it's about 30 MPS down and 20 up. Report calls that "fast". I also checked my iPhone 13, and that was about 300 down, rated "very fast". When the laptop is lagging, it tests out to about 1 mps or less down. Now that causes lag, and rates out as "slow".

mjfloyd1

We went tankless gas water heaters mainly for noise as the exhaust pipes for the two tank water heaters ran under our bedroom and my wife hated hearing it if they ran as she tried to sleep.

The down side of the tankless is that if you have a power outage then you don’t have any hot water.

Michaell

My folks were an early adopter of tankless, back around 20 or so years ago. Primitive technology, apparently, as we had to replace it last year as our tenants were constantly complaining of running out of hot water, often in the middle of a shower.

Haven't had any complaints, since.

tjc78

@stickguy said:
Reminds me. At the time I could not figure out why is costs 4x as much for a tankless unit. Still has a heater and control module. Just no tank. So why was it $3,000 pricier?

They have come way down in price. $1500 buys you a Noritz 199K BTU unit. 40G gas power vent Bradford white is the same price.

tjc78

qbrozen

Question on tankless: is there any kind of safety switch that would prevent flow if it developed a leak?

driver100

explorerx4 said:

My 48 gallon gas water heater has a sticker on it that estimates the cost to be $273 for a year.
How much is a tankless going to save?
It's nice having hot water for a couple of days when power is out for an extended period.

Tankless water heaters can be 24% to 34% more energy efficient than conventional storage tank water heaters.”
We have a generator....so it could still heat water. Nor sure how long hot water would stay hot in a regular tank heater if there is an outage that lasts for a few hours.

tjc78

They don’t store any wate> @qbrozen said:

Question on tankless: is there any kind of safety switch that would prevent flow if it developed a leak?

I don’t think the valve opens to let the water past the heat exchanger unless it detects flow so if the exchanger fails it shouldn’t leak unless the hot water tap is on somewhere in the house.

I know it’s something similar to this because to flush them they have to be plugged in and on either a service mode or the gas turned off

qbrozen

Ok yeah i guess it makes sense that I’d know if a problem arises because I’ll have no hot water. Although I might get quite a flood before then.

oldfarmer50

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

I did a spreadsheet a few years ago to figure out how broke (or not) we were, as we neared 60 and really both wanted to retire! We still have a number of prior 401ks that I never got around to closing out and moving to Vanguard (I really need to get on that!) Turned out to be more than I expected, putting everything in one place. I updated a couple of times, lastly after markets went down but before the big dip.

so I have no clue what it all comes out to now, especially since we sold/bought/moved and cashed out some equity in the process! I am just afraid to find out.

I can chart my net worth on the back of an envelope.

Same here... but, I track it, once per week.

Me too but sometimes it’s hard getting the socks out of the way so I can count it.

explorerx4

@driver100,
Didn't you read the last sentence I wrote?

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
Didn't you read the last sentence I wrote?

I read it but I don't know what I supposedly missed

henryn

stickguy said:

still not sure why my laptop is getting wonky, but at least figured out the workaround. For some reason the wifi connection goes bad. But not disconnecting, just extremely (like bad dial up speeds) slow. So I disconnect then reconnect the wifi (same one, that works fine on everything else) and it comes back to life.

a lot slower though than my phone. Ran the speed test, and when working normally it's about 30 MPS down and 20 up. Report calls that "fast". I also checked my iPhone 13, and that was about 300 down, rated "very fast". When the laptop is lagging, it tests out to about 1 mps or less down. Now that causes lag, and rates out as "slow".

If the network card is bad (which does happen), you can get a new network card for around $25. It will cost more than that for the labor to have it replace.

ab348

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

My 48 gallon gas water heater has a sticker on it that estimates the cost to be $273 for a year.
How much is a tankless going to save?
It's nice having hot water for a couple of days when power is out for an extended period.

Tankless water heaters can be 24% to 34% more energy efficient than conventional storage tank water heaters.”
We have a generator....so it could still heat water. Nor sure how long hot water would stay hot in a regular tank heater if there is an outage that lasts for a few hours.

Does your generator output 240V to operate electric stoves, clothes dryers, and HW heaters that require that?

I can tell you that when we lost power here for 2 1/2 days after a hurricane a few years back, I still had hot-to-warm water to take quick showers with during that period.

stickguy

thanks. I already need another new power cord since that cracked and I have it electrical taped together.

At this point it is old enough that instead of battling a lot of wear and tear issues (and paying especially to have work done) that I would just put the money toward a new one at some point soon.

besides, new stuff is fun!

venture

henryn said:

stickguy said:

still not sure why my laptop is getting wonky, but at least figured out the workaround. For some reason the wifi connection goes bad. But not disconnecting, just extremely (like bad dial up speeds) slow. So I disconnect then reconnect the wifi (same one, that works fine on everything else) and it comes back to life.

a lot slower though than my phone. Ran the speed test, and when working normally it's about 30 MPS down and 20 up. Report calls that "fast". I also checked my iPhone 13, and that was about 300 down, rated "very fast". When the laptop is lagging, it tests out to about 1 mps or less down. Now that causes lag, and rates out as "slow".

If the network card is bad (which does happen), you can get a new network card for around $25. It will cost more than that for the labor to have it replace.

Man! Sorry I missed that sale.

mlevine

At work we have an IT department and I have been firendly with the guys. I nneded a new power cord and they had spare one that they gave me. A few years ago had one of the guys take out old hard drive and place with SSD. This may be helpful for you. For the hard drive they did may a favor and I gave the guy $20. He had a program to clone hard drive and transfer to new drive. I have a best buy support contract but they would not touch windows 7 only windows 10 to do the work.

qbrozen

@ab348 said:
Does your generator output 240V to operate electric stoves, clothes dryers, and HW heaters that require that?

I can tell you that when we lost power here for 2 1/2 days after a hurricane a few years back, I still had hot-to-warm water to take quick showers with during that period.

I know you weren’t asking me, but I have a whole-house generator. Without it, we wouldn’t even have water, hot or not.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

My 48 gallon gas water heater has a sticker on it that estimates the cost to be $273 for a year.
How much is a tankless going to save?
It's nice having hot water for a couple of days when power is out for an extended period.

Tankless water heaters can be 24% to 34% more energy efficient than conventional storage tank water heaters.”
We have a generator....so it could still heat water. Nor sure how long hot water would stay hot in a regular tank heater if there is an outage that lasts for a few hours.

Hot water tanks have very good insulation, quick test is to hold your hand against a hot water tank and you won't feel any heat from the hot water inside. A hot water tank should keep the water inside hot for several days if the power went out.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

My 48 gallon gas water heater has a sticker on it that estimates the cost to be $273 for a year.
How much is a tankless going to save?
It's nice having hot water for a couple of days when power is out for an extended period.

Tankless water heaters can be 24% to 34% more energy efficient than conventional storage tank water heaters.”
We have a generator....so it could still heat water. Nor sure how long hot water would stay hot in a regular tank heater if there is an outage that lasts for a few hours.

Does your generator output 240V to operate electric stoves, clothes dryers, and HW heaters that require that?

I can tell you that when we lost power here for 2 1/2 days after a hurricane a few years back, I still had hot-to-warm water to take quick showers with during that period.

Yes, our generator works off natural gas. Normally a house like ours would require a larger one, but it is fine for 2 people and 15 pound Trixie. We don't do without anything.

tjc78

@snakeweasel said:
Hot water tanks have very good insulation, quick test is to hold your hand against a hot water tank and you won't feel any heat from the hot water inside. A hot water tank should keep the water inside hot for several days if the power went out.

Yeah but the minute you try and use that hot water the cold enters the tank and reduces the temp pretty quickly

imidazol97

The hotter water goes to the top of the tank. The cold enters on the bottom through the fill tube.
So the water at the top doesn't get cooled to any great degree by the incoming, unheated water.
That would be true of low volume usage. Fast draining would tend to mix the bottom water with the higher water.

explorerx4

Bot sure if you Mav owners have seen this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-maverick-owners-find-secret-konami-code-to-hack-into-truck-s-gauge-cluster/ar-AA17lq7w?cvid=dc28f379368b4e7da7eca29f26b87b40

stickguy

can't say I am going to be messing around with that!

explorerx4

corvette probably will!

driver100

In today's column Dennis O'Sullivan backed up one garage and chewed out another:
QUESTION

I was driving up north about three weeks ago and ended up in a snowstorm. I was following a large transport truck when a chunk of ice came from the top of the trailer and hit the front end of my car. It broke my grill but also put a hole in my radiator. I was in a bind so I put Stop Leak in the radiator until I could get home to have the radiator repaired. I took it into a rad shop in Hamilton and they said that the radiator could be repaired. About four hours later, I received a phone call about the repair and was told that the radiator was going to have to be replaced and could not be repaired. I never had any overheating problems but I had to give the go ahead to replace the radiator because they had the car in their shop. I had a slight disagreement with the garage when I went to pick up the car because I did not believe that the radiator could not be fixed. I told the garage that I wanted the old radiator back, which they did give to me. I then took the radiator to my garage and told them what had transpired. My mechanic took a look at the radiator and told me that in his opinion, the rad shop just sold me a radiator that I did not need and that he found that rad shops are notorious for selling radiators that are not needed. Can you look into this for me?

Don

ANSWER

It always bothers me when a licenced technician will defame another technician who holds the same certificate when they do not have all the facts. I spoke to your mechanic and asked him on what basis did he decide that the radiator did not need to be replaced. He told me that it was his experience that radiator shops routinely replace radiators that do not need to be replaced and that he did not have to answer to me. When I told him that an accusation like that against another technician, who holds the same certificate, certainly takes away the professionalism that is expected of a licenced tech-nician when that technician bases his opinion on conjecture rather than facts.

He hung up on me.

I then called the radiator shop and this is what they told me. The radiator shop had told you that they would have to flush the system out because you had put two cans of Stop Leak into the system to try and stop the leak. One can of Stop Leak is designed to plug a small hole but two tins of Stop Leak has the potential of plugging the complete coolant system. The radiator shop tried twice to flush the system and only charged you once. They then determined that the radiator was plugged to the point that it would need to be rebuilt or replaced. They also told you that your heater core was cleaned, as best as they could but also might need to be changed in the near future.

I think that you owe the radiator shop an apology and while you are at it, ask your own technician to value his mechanical certificate and to not defame another technician who holds the same certificate, if he values his.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Bot sure if you Mav owners have seen this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-maverick-owners-find-secret-konami-code-to-hack-into-truck-s-gauge-cluster/ar-AA17lq7w?cvid=dc28f379368b4e7da7eca29f26b87b40

Does that include the ability to roll back the odometer?

ab348

To pass the time over these cold, dismal winter days, I’ve been watching a variety of things on YT. Discovered there are plenty of travel bloggers but an interesting specialty offshoot of that are those who do videos of the travel itself-reviewers of airlines, long-distance trains and even buses, ferries, etc. Some are pretty interesting. There are a remarkable number of airline v-bloggers. I guess if you get enough viewers it pays for itself and then some. I thought it odd that anyone would write positive reviews of air travel these days until I realized that many of them fly first or at least business class much of the time thanks to points and their membership status, which gets them every possible perk like special check-in and boarding along with lounge access.

Yesterday I watched a long video just recently done of a drive through Los Angeles along Mulholland Dr and through DT L.A. and then on the freeway towards Santa Monica. It ran for almost 2 hours. I found it fascinating. For a country mouse like me parts of seemed almost overwhelming. The place is so sprawling that I can’t imagine how anyone could navigate it by memory. Maybe if I lived there I’d have to learn how to deal with nav systems. 😉 There’s one I began watching today of driving up the PCH from Long Beach that is really eye-opening too.

As a palate cleanser after the DT L.A. experience yesterday I watched this fun but short video from 1960 of driving down Wilshire Blvd which looks nothing like this today.

https://youtu.be/qvNvyfBs0jU

Michaell

ab348 said:

To pass the time over these cold, dismal winter days, I’ve been watching a variety of things on YT. Discovered there are plenty of travel bloggers but an interesting specialty offshoot of that are those who do videos of the travel itself-reviewers of airlines, long-distance trains and even buses, ferries, etc. Some are pretty interesting. There are a remarkable number of airline v-bloggers. I guess if you get enough viewers it pays for itself and then some. I thought it odd that anyone would write positive reviews of air travel these days until I realized that many of them fly first or at least business class much of the time thanks to points and their membership status, which gets them every possible perk like special check-in and boarding along with lounge access.

Yesterday I watched a long video just recently done of a drive through Los Angeles along Mulholland Dr and through DT L.A. and then on the freeway towards Santa Monica. It ran for almost 2 hours. I found it fascinating. For a country mouse like me parts of seemed almost overwhelming. The place is so sprawling that I can’t imagine how anyone could navigate it by memory. Maybe if I lived there I’d have to learn how to deal with nav systems. 😉 There’s one I began watching today of driving up the PCH from Long Beach that is really eye-opening too.

As a palate cleanser after the DT L.A. experience yesterday I watched this fun but short video from 1960 of driving down Wilshire Blvd which looks nothing like this today.

https://youtu.be/qvNvyfBs0jU

There are a few channels I watch, specifically.

And, having grown up in the greater LA region, I can tell you there are plenty of roads I've never driven on, like Mulholland Drive and Laurel Canyon Drive. One tends to use the freeways to get to one's destination (Disneyland, Dodger Stadium, etc.), then use surface streets for the last 5%.

imidazol97

I saw 3 1960 Fords so it was a good video!

ab348

The Mulholland video made me think how awful it would be up there if you had to evacuate due to a wildfire. It is so winding and slow that it would seem an impossibility.

fintail

I think at least GM and Ford had plants in So Cal at the time, too.

I spotted a few foreign cars, an Isetta and Sport Prinz come to mind. At the very end we switch to some early postwar scenes, mostly prewar cars on the road.

ab348 said:

To pass the time over these cold, dismal winter days, I’ve been watching a variety of things on YT. Discovered there are plenty of travel bloggers but an interesting specialty offshoot of that are those who do videos of the travel itself-reviewers of airlines, long-distance trains and even buses, ferries, etc. Some are pretty interesting. There are a remarkable number of airline v-bloggers. I guess if you get enough viewers it pays for itself and then some. I thought it odd that anyone would write positive reviews of air travel these days until I realized that many of them fly first or at least business class much of the time thanks to points and their membership status, which gets them every possible perk like special check-in and boarding along with lounge access.

Yesterday I watched a long video just recently done of a drive through Los Angeles along Mulholland Dr and through DT L.A. and then on the freeway towards Santa Monica. It ran for almost 2 hours. I found it fascinating. For a country mouse like me parts of seemed almost overwhelming. The place is so sprawling that I can’t imagine how anyone could navigate it by memory. Maybe if I lived there I’d have to learn how to deal with nav systems. 😉 There’s one I began watching today of driving up the PCH from Long Beach that is really eye-opening too.

As a palate cleanser after the DT L.A. experience yesterday I watched this fun but short video from 1960 of driving down Wilshire Blvd which looks nothing like this today.

Michaell

GM had a plant in Van Nuys, where I know they built the F-Body before they closed it.

kyfdx

Michaell said:

GM had a plant in Van Nuys, where I know they built the F-Body before they closed it.

F-Body also built in Norwood, OH plant.

ab348

Michaell said:

GM had a plant in Van Nuys, where I know they built the F-Body before they closed it.

They also had the NUMMI joint venture with Toyota up north in Fremont, originally an all-GM operation, which eventually got bought by Elon.

driver100

We are holding off on the Tankless Water Heater for now. The cost seems to be a lot more....maybe close to double installed. But, the part am not sure about is the maintenance that has to be done every year. Take apart, cut off lines, descaling......the video takes half an hour, not sure how long doing it will take. Old water heaters seem to be pretty crude and prehistoric in comparison....but at least you buy it and it doesn't require much maintenance.

driver100

Talk about HP being proprietary. I put in a new ink cartridge and it knows whether it is a real HP product....they will probably cut you off if it is a wannabe product. And they have programs where you get them at a reduced rate if you buy them directly from them. And you can buy a program where they will help you for a yearly fee. They are trying to make as much money as possible from their base. Yet, you know their products are pretty good.

imidazol97

I quit HP printers and went with a great Canon printer, scanner, copier andI think it can fax if set up properly. Cheap at the time and large ink reservoir that lasts longer than some of the tiny volume things HP was into with my last printer.

I see these laptop computers on HSN/QVC which include an HP printer and the subscription where you buy the ability to print a certain number of pages per month. They automatically ship you a new cartridge when the printer tells them you need it? I buy a cartridge at Walmart (convenient and easier), Canon brand, or I buy one at Office Deport which also sells their refilled cartridges. All of them work a long, time compared to my HP experience.

I like HP computer products but not the printers anymore.

mjfloyd1

@driver100 said:
We are holding off on the Tankless Water Heater for now. The cost seems to be a lot more....maybe close to double installed. But, the part am not sure about is the maintenance that has to be done every year. Take apart, cut off lines, descaling......the video takes half an hour, not sure how long doing it will take. Old water heaters seem to be pretty crude and prehistoric in comparison....but at least you buy it and it doesn't require much maintenance.

De-scaling is easy as long as they install valves on each side of the water heater. Just turn it off, turn the valves, hook up hoses (I used washing machine hoses) place pump and white vinegar in large bucket and turn pump on. I let it run 30-45 minutes on each of our tankless water heaters. Pretty easy.

We have a water softener and a whole house water filter so there was no scale and I hadn’t done it for at least two years.

henryn

The whole business model for ink-jet printers has been a bit of a rip-off, going back many years now. The worst rip was when one of the manufacturers (I think it was Epson, but don't recall for certain) would disable the whole unit when one of the ink cartridges ran out. Not only would it not print, you couldn't use it to scan either.

There for several years you could buy a new ink jet printer at WalMart or Target for like $29. But it would only print about 100 pages before you had to spend twice that much for new ink cartridges. Total rip off.

I presently have an old Epson ink-jet multi function, which I only use for scanning. The scanner is quick, and produces good quality PDF files. It prints well too, but I don't like paying for the ink, even reconditioned cartridges cost too much and don't last. For printing, I use an HP color laser which was given to me. One of my customers had problems with it, and was going to throw it away. Shortly after I took it off his hands, he found a complete set of toner cartridges which he had purchased and forgotten about, so I'm set for quite a while on printing.

carnaught

@henryn, my Canon PIXMA 922 all-in-one printer has been stellar until the last 6 mos. If I print in black and white, the smaller letters and in every other line words appear partially and hard to read. It is much better printing in color with less partial skipping of the print quality. Printing from a scanned document is better quality. Searching for replacements, I noticed that new printers, regardless of brand and price, get ratings of 3-4 out of 5. Any idea why the poor quality printing (I have used the utility to clean the heads multiple times with no difference.) What new all-in-one ink jet units do you like the best?

laurasdada

At BJs gas tonight, $3.96/PUG (an increase of .02 since I last filled up 426 miles ago, with 3/8 tank left), I saw a Jaguar F-Pace in British Racing Green.... with a Leaper on the hood! Not sure if that's sacrilege or not...

Next pump over, an elderly man filling his white Highlander (with wife warmly ensconced in the passenger seat). He complimented me several times on how beautiful the A7 is. When I told him it was partial electric, he must have mis-heard me as he said, "But you're putting gas in it!" I again explained; he smiled. He noted that it looks expensive, I replied that any idiot can go into debt. And, his reply, with a twinkle in his eye, "You only live once!"

If only I was personally complimented on my appearance as much as my car and dog are, I'd be a happier man. I'm beautiful inside.

jmonroe1

@laurasdada said:
At BJs gas tonight, $3.96/PUG (an increase of .02 since I last filled up 426 miles ago, with 3/8 tank left), I saw a Jaguar F-Pace in British Racing Green.... with a Leaper on the hood! Not sure if that's sacrilege or not...

Next pump over, an elderly man filling his white Highlander (with wife warmly ensconced in the passenger seat). He complimented me several times on how beautiful the A7 is. When I told him it was partial electric, he must have mis-heard me as he said, "But you're putting gas in it!" I again explained; he smiled. He noted that it looks expensive, I replied that any idiot can go into debt. And, his reply, with a twinkle in his eye, "You only live once!"

If only I was personally complimented on my appearance as much as my car and dog are, I'd be a happier man. I'm beautiful inside.

————————————————
Yep and just like me, not too many folks care about that.

jmonroe