Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

henryn said:

Update on the repairs to my 2006 DTS. The body shop called me, their estimate is about $2.4k, and the car should be ready next Wednesday, so good news on that front.

That is good news for you since your Caddy looked pretty darn nice to me.

While I have you here, I think you are the guy that was looking at used vans, a Town and Country IIRC.

Son#1 has a 2008 T&C that he bought new in 2008. He allowed his wife to talk him into it because of all the goodies it had including 2 rear seat cameras to occupy his 3 sons. He has had more problems with that beast than I could post here. He even had to have the original engine replaced about 3 months after he got it and a transmission when it was about 2 years old. Both were covered under warranty so he didn't lose money because of that. But, like I said he has had way too many nuisance problems with it.

He is now in the market for another van since the T&C has around 180K miles on it and he thinks the transmission is acting up. He realizes that the newer T&C's are probably build better that his '08 but he is not even considering another one this time around. In fact, when someone asks him about his '08 they get an earful with no expletives deleted.

He is now looking at both new and used Honda, Toyota and Kia vans. His take so far is that the Toyota has the most powerful engine but not by much, however, he didn't like the interior. The Honda engine was probably like his '08 T&C but again he did not like the interior. That leaves the Kia, same power as the Honda but the interior was much nicer. Therefore, he is going with the Kia. The only decision is whether to get new or used. He says Kia is offering 0% financing on the new ones so that may tell him which way he will go.

He also said that Kia has some very aggressive pricing going on right now for the '15's in addition to the 0% financing so that is another favorable consideration for the Kia since he liked that van better anyway. He's been looking on the internet and more than likely he will be going out of state to get either new or used since the local dealers don't have the color and trim level that he wants. And get this, he will be giving Fairfax Kia a call. This is part of the dealer group where I got my '15 Genny.

Just thought you might want to hear an impartial review on other vans.

jmonroe

Woah! He got 180k miles out of it and he's badmouthing? If I got that many miles out of a car I'd be buying drinks down at the local bar.

I could see being mad at a car if it got to 180,000. First, how many dollars did it take to get there, second, how many rattles and broken items did you have to put up with to get there? Drive around in the Summer in CA and you'll quickly hate a car with a broken A/C System.

thebean

roadburner said:

Just know that we are all in your corner, Mike.

+1, Mike.  Good thoughts coming your way.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

dino001 said:

So if you are part of the elite or flying on somebody else's dime, you'd say those were "good times". Rest of us would say we should be glad we can fly at all, even if in much crappier environment. BTW, even for the elites, the experience today may actually be better. I bet $20K+ first class ticket on A380 on Emirates gives you much better experience than its equivalent from 70s on first generation 747. From lounge to private suite on the plane, to concierge service at the destination. So those guys aren't hurting. I do believe "gold times" for American traveller were 90s - cheap fuel, lots of carriers, cut throat competition, low ticket prices, treating economy passenger like humans. 2001 changed all of it.

The whole notion of "old times were better" (by which I mean 30, 40, 50 years ago) comes from our selective memories and idealized view of our own youth. A dispassionate analysis would often debunk it easily.

Was it really better, when a man's suit cost month of salary rather than small fraction? The suit might have been better quality there and the department store salesman/woman provided much better service during the sale, but people affording one good suit was better than multiple suits of somewhat lesser quality? Not sure.

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

The "Connies" were one of the most beautiful piston driven aircraft ever. My personal favorite. The best we ever got in Albany were DC 7s. I do remember going to the airport to pick up my father. You waited practically under the wing seperated only by a hip high fence that even as a kid I could climb.


IIRC I flew a L-1011 from Chicago to LA once.


The L-1011s left in service in the US are mainly military transports or fire fighting planes. I occasionally see the tanker versions doing touch and go practice as I drive my school kids past the airport. Big planes compared to the Boeing 737s and Airbus 320s that service our area.



Darn it 'farmer', I get chills whenever someone says "touch and goes". This is because I was a Navy airdale in a transport squadron stationed at Pax River Md back in the early 60's. We did plenty of pilot trainers known as "PT's" and PT's resulted in many touch and goes due to them being training flights and I was known as the "PT Kid". Not something to brag about because, as the newest member of a flight crew I got more than my share of PT's due to the old timers being able to refuse them unless they had to get in their "flight time" to maintain their flight status and get their flight pay for a given month. Talk about RHIP, I knew all too well how that worked. :@

One day I had the morning PT which is usually a 4 hour jaunt. No problem since I did many of those. This 4 hour test flight ran into 5 hours. OK, still no big deal since I did a few of those too. So what's the problem you ask? Since we were late getting back to the squadron I thought it would be a good idea to let my division officer know that I was going to the chow hall and I'd be a little late getting back to the hanger. He said, "don't be late because something came up and you are now scheduled for the afternoon PT which is still going to take off on time. So make sure you are not late getting to the plane" and he tells me the planes tail number and off I rush to the chow hall to gulp down some food.

I counted 38 touch and goes that day and more than half of those were logged during the afternoon PT which also lasted more than 4 hours. This reinforced my handle as the "PT Kid". I was discharged in July 1963 and because of stuff like that I kinda lost my love of flying. There are some things you never forget.

jmonroe

That is so cool. Maybe you can answer a nagging question regarding those training exercises. When I see C-130s doing them I assume they are training to drop cargo under fire and then lift off quickly.

Why would the L-1011 tankers do the same?

I've even speculated that it's because the airport charges them a landing fee if they come to a stop.

snakeweasel

henryn said:

abacomike said:

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:

berri said:

I've driven some miserable cars, but I think I just found the king of the hill for miserable cars available today.

Just spen two hours driving from Pewaukee, WI to Chicago, IL.....in a Mitsu Lancer. Avis had this, and nothing else. So, being the sport that I am, I didn't raise a fuss (given I'm a President's Club Member

I've had very poor luck with Hertz and Avis in Milwaukee. Some of the crappiest cars. Maybe I'll try Enterprise next. I've found several consumer ratings of those companies at MKE and many are not too favorable. I've generally had decent luck with Hertz elsewhere, so I wonder if it is the management at the MKE site?

When I lived in Chicago, I used to frequent General Billy Mitchell International Airport once a month for two years.  I'd fly up from Midway on a Sunday morning on a puddle-jumper and rent a car from Hertz.  I usually ended up with a K-car (Chrysler product) or a GM equivalent.  I did some volunteer work part-time for a religious organization supervising curriculum construction for schools.

I would then fly back to Midway that evening.  Winters were horrible and those K-cars were a blessing in snow.

Really? It's only 95 miles from downtown Chicago to downtown Milwaukee. You can drive it in normal traffic in an hour and a half. When you add the drive time to the airport, going through check in and security you really aren't saving any time.

I lived 20 minutes from Midway, far southwest side of the metro area.  135 miles one-way (270 round trip).  As long as they paid for it, I preferred flying to driving. I always left my car at Midway.  It was a 1 hour trip including wait time.  Much better than driving.



The quoting seems to be broken again. End of quote from Mike-------------------------------------

Snakeweasel, I'm not sure how old you are, but I know Mike is a little older than me. I'm 65, and I can remember flying in the days before airline deregulation. It was an entirely different experience, and actually quite enjoyable. I never missed a chance to fly, it was something that I (and many others) looked forward to.

The airline deregulation act of 1978 changed everything. Yes, it became much less expensive, and many more people were able to fly. But before that, the experience (while expensive) was a real treat as long as someone else was paying for it.

We don’t even want to go into what it’s like to fly these days, post 9/11.


Yes I am younger than a some people here I am no spring chicken. I did a lot of flying pre 1978 (a benefit of having divorced parents living in different areas of the country) so I am familiar with it.

snakeweasel

henryn said:

I didn’t mean to stir up a major controversy over “old times” versus “present day”. Snakeweasel asked abacomike why he flew instead of driving.

Not really questioning flying over driving but it was the distance between the two points. Seriously a round trip between the two cities by car wouldn't use up a half tank of gas. According to my GPS it's 99 miles and 1.5 hours (likely less in normal traffic) by car between the two airports and according to travel sites 0.75 hours by airplane. Even in the old days of flight check in, getting to the gate and other stuff would eat up a lot of the travel time saved.

jmonroe

'farmer' said:

That is so cool. Maybe you can answer a nagging question regarding those training exercises. When I see C-130s doing them I assume they are training to drop cargo under fire and then lift off quickly.

Why would the L-1011 tankers do the same?

I've even speculated that it's because the airport charges them a landing fee if they come to a stop.
______________________________________________________________

"farmer', I didn't think it was cool at all. It got to be very monotonous.

When planes do touch and goes, given that they didn't screw it up the first time, and ran out of runway in time to do a normal stop, they are practicing take offs and landings which are the most important part of flying. As we used to say, "you have to do them in pairs or it doesn't count".

When a plain came out of an extensive maintenance check that included landing gear work, you know damn well they are going to test the main mounts with hard set downs then ease the nose over to complete the landing.

I was in the Navy so we did not get charged for landings at any military base and for the few times we landed at a commercial airport I don't how that was handled but there could have been a bean counter involved for that high tech stuff that was beyond a mere flight crews capacity. We had enough to do with just loading it and making sure it could take off.

FWIW, the squadron I was in was the first Navy transport squadron to get C-130's. The Air Force had them for a few years before the Navy got them. The C-130's had so much more power than the other transports we had like the commercial DC-6's that the Navy called R6D's and a Convair 2 engine job that the Navy called an R4Y. You could do some real flying in a C-130 compared to the rest of our fleet and the pay load was so much larger that eventually the whole squadron was going to be just C-130's but I was long gone before that happened. We only had 4 when I left in July of '63 but before I left I got a lot of hours in those also.

If you ever have a chance to go see the Navy Blue Angels at an air show, do it. They have (or at least used to have) a C-130 that carried all the spare parts and other paraphernalia for the jets and it sometimes gets into the act of the air show. They equip their plane with JATO (Jet Assist Take Off) bottles on each side and when they light those things off for a takeoff, the plain literally jumps off the runway in just a few feet after roll. We had the hook ups for the JATO bottles but it wasn't in our squadrons job description to use them. Too bad for us because that must have been one hell of a kick in the pants to experience a take off like that. No commercial jet of any kind could equal that type of a takeoff. Talk about horse power, that is real horsepower. Cars are just toys in comparison. Yeah, you gotta go see that to believe it.

jmonroe

qbrozen

On the Vsport: the advisor called Thurs night to tell me the exhaust should be arriving Mon or Tues. So about a week just to get a replacement exhaust. 

driver100

thebean said:

roadburner said:

Just know that we are all in your corner, Mike.

+1, Mike.  Good thoughts coming your way.

+2

driver100

qbrozen said:

On the Vsport: the advisor called Thurs night to tell me the exhaust should be arriving Mon or Tues. So about a week just to get a replacement exhaust. 

Sorry qb, I have been trying to catch up since getting back from Victoria.....what exactly happened to the exhaust system.

I'd like to know what is happening to your Caddie. When I see one on the road or in a commercial, I love the look of them. I also like most MBs, Audis, and BMWs, as well as many other cars like Lexus, Acura, Infinity, but I especially like the boxy kind of look of a Cadillac.

I even think this 2010 model would make a cool car to drive around in:

nyccarguy

Keep us posted @qbrozen

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

On the Vsport: the advisor called Thurs night to tell me the exhaust should be arriving Mon or Tues. So about a week just to get a replacement exhaust. 

Sorry qb, I have been trying to catch up since getting back from Victoria.....what exactly happened to the exhaust system.

I'd like to know what is happening to your Caddie. When I see one on the road or in a commercial, I love the look of them. I also like most MBs, Audis, and BMWs, as well as many other cars like Lexus, Acura, Infinity, but I especially like the boxy kind of look of a Cadillac.

I even think this 2010 model would make a cool car to drive around in:

What's with those ugly black wheels? Is this the latest fad to slap them on every thing that moves? When I see them I immediately think somebody curbed their nice rims and had to paint them black to cover the damage.

I just saw an episode of Powerblock where the host spent a good part of the show showing all the special techniques needed to paint chrome wheels black. I couldn't believe they would ruin them like that.

Hopefully the black wheels and the flat black body paint jobs fad will fade away like fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror.

imidazol97

cdnpinhead said:

It's called "Airplane," the movie. It's a classic, but only if you've seen it. I watched it again all the way through a few months ago -- many catch phrases that are still in use:

A hospital? What is it?
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked?

Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?

Yeah, you had to be there.

I had a year's worth of free movie tickets back in 1980 or so.
Airplane was the only movie I ever walked out in the mddle of the movie. Awful.

I saw some bad ones, but that one was not to my tolerance.

imidazol97

berri said:

The L-1011 was a magnificent wide body, but late to the market. So basically only Eastern, Delta and TWA flew them here.

Does FedEx still have 1011's in its fleet? I believe I've seen them at DAY(ton) occasionally. Must depend on the load size for that night coming in to the local airport.

I flew an L-1011 from Lauderdale to Atlanta returning from visiting my sister in Boca Raton long ago. I had picked my flights to get airframes I usually couldn't be on with other shorter trips out of Cincy.

My first trip by air in 1967 left Cincy on a Convair 880 then a two engine prop plane from ATL to Charleston. I remember worrying about the oil flowing out of the front of the engine cowling during most of the trip, afraid we'd lose an engine. But we flew so low it wouldn't have been a problem, just land on any straight road. LOL

Return trip was on DC-9 via Columbia in weather that had spawned tornadoes when it was farther west the day/night before. The stewardesses never left their seats in the rear because of the turbulence until we were halfway to ATL. I swore I'd never fly again.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

It's called "Airplane," the movie. It's a classic, but only if you've seen it. I watched it again all the way through a few months ago -- many catch phrases that are still in use: A hospital? What is it? It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before? Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before. Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked? Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence. Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor? Yeah, you had to be there.

I had a year's worth of free movie tickets back in 1980 or so. Airplane was the only movie I ever walked out in the mddle of the movie. Awful. I saw some bad ones, but that one was not to my tolerance.

Like many movie spoofs, you have to be a bit slapstick-ish to appreciate the storyline "or" lack thereof.  Movies like "Police Squad" and the many sequels are similar to "Airplane" and "Airplane 2"!  The scripts are written with hundreds of one-liners that often have nothing to do with the specific scenes.

I find that the "Three Stooges" flicks were similar but much more physically slapstick.  "Laurel and Hardy" films were also part of that Genre as were the "Marx Brother's" films.

imidazol97

Occasionally I see the Air Force doing practice landings at the local international airport. I've seen planes that look like a C17 or a C141? and a few years back and E-4 doing landings. I may have the C141 name wrong but it's a transport with 4 engines and the wings attached to the top of the body. They had a lot of then at the local base but they were being phased out. I got to fly one when I at a special program on the base -- but it was only a flight simulator they were using as they were upgrading the systems to modern era standards. Yes, I crashed both landings. .

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

The L-1011 was a magnificent wide body, but late to the market. So basically only Eastern, Delta and TWA flew them here.

Does FedEx still have 1011's in its fleet? I believe I've seen them at DAY(ton) occasionally. Must depend on the load size for that night coming in to the local airport. I flew an L-1011 from Lauderdale to Atlanta returning from visiting my sister in Boca Raton long ago. I had picked my flights to get airframes I usually couldn't be on with other shorter trips out of Cincy. My first trip by air in 1967 left Cincy on a Convair 880 then a two engine prop plane from ATL to Charleston. I remember worrying about the oil flowing out of the front of the engine cowling during most of the trip, afraid we'd lose an engine. But we flew so low it wouldn't have been a problem, just land on any straight road. LOL Return trip was on DC-9 via Columbia in weather that had spawned tornadoes when it was farther west the day/night before. The stewardesses never left their seats in the rear because of the turbulence until we were halfway to ATL. I swore I'd never fly again.

FEDEX indeed still flies L-1011's and DC-10's.  I see them parked on the north side of FLL at the Ft. Lauderdale hub.

sda

I just returned from a Honda dealer that I've done a fair amount of business and had appreciated that they rarely did addendum price stickers or when they did they were modest. No more. Look at these overpriced items! In addition the service dept tried to upsell me for air/cabin filter, fuel system cleaning, brake fluid flush, etc. Also said in 2 oil changes the timing belt needs to be replaced. (I expected that, but not the $950 price to do so.) I was also anticipating the suggestion to replace air/cabin filters so earlier this week I ordered them online for both the Pilot and Accord and bought all 4 filters for less than they were going to charge for the cabin filter for the Pilot. By the way, the cabin filter is the same # for both cars.

dino001

The funniest thing. Everybody declares they hate flying and avoid it, how bad the sevice is, how much they miss old good times, yet the news just reported record numbers are expected to travel by air. So which one is it? Again - the difference between what we say and what we do. I also suspect that albeit not high quality (except the whole safety thing), more new people take tha plane for first time ever.

abacomike

dino001 said:

The funniest thing. Everybody declares they hate flying and avoid it, how bad the sevice is, how much they miss old good times, yet the news just reported record numbers are expected to travel by air. So which one is it? Again - the difference between what we say and what we do. I also suspect that albeit not high quality (except the whole safety thing), more new people take tha plane for first time ever.

People traveling for vacation often have no choice but to fly.  Going on a Caribbean cruise?  Miami/Ft.Lauderdale.  Going to Disney or Universal Studios?  Orlando.  Then, people fly for work and business.

If I had to fly, I would - how else would I get to CA?  But since I do not "have to" fly, I don't.  I would love to take the train to CA, but the connections from here are horrendous.

stever

sda said:

I just returned from a Honda dealer that I've done a fair amount of business and had appreciated that they rarely did addendum price stickers or when they did they were modest. No more. Look at these overpriced items!

There seems to be a correlation between ADM items and service rip-offs.

If they are charging $200 for worthless nitrogen, then yeah, expect $99 for a cabin air filter down the road.

What dealer is this?

nyccarguy

@sda - that's absurd!  Plus a multi hundred dollar doc fee or processing fee.  Maybe they were recently taken over by a large mega dealer group?

graphicguy

Having flown most of my adult life for work and pleasure, I've amassed 1M+ miles flown on two airlines....Delta and American. I still fly 100K+miles/year.

Airline industry is the poster child for corporate greed run amuck. Rarely, if ever, will you hear me call for government regulation, but in this case it's warranted.

Since de-regulation, I've seen airlines merge, cut services, cut staff, etc. What used to be rare occurrences regarding staff is now commonplace. Just one example, I can't tell how many times a flight is held up because there isn't enough staff to fly planes, and we have to wait for a flight attendant or pilot who flew too many hours and has to take mandatory time off. Airlines won't hire enough staff to allow for those times.

They tout their "on-time" performance. When in truth, all they have to do is pull away from the gate to be considered "on time" take off. That doesn't allow for them pulling 50 feet away from the gate and waiting hours (has happened to my flights plenty of times). That also precludes anyone from getting off the flight to find another one that may be on time.

Instead of competing, the airlines try to gobble up as many competitors as possible in any region or route so they can control pricing.

Airline lobbyists just defeated a bill that would require airlines to provide enough space for a passenger so they can fly in some semblance of comfort. Now, airlines don't have to allow you any space, forcing you to pay more for their "comfort" seats.

Having flown so many miles, I usually get upgraded to 1st class. That nets me just enough leg room to be comfortable and maybe a cold sandwich or a beer during my flight. As others point out, 1st class used to be a whole lot different.

In fairness, on my trans-Pacific/Atlantic flights, the 1st class service is just that. First Class.

Government re-regulation needs to be instituted. Otherwise, there will be no end in sight for this type of downward spiral in an industry that should be considered an essential service.

stickguy

I would be happy if they could just fix the security line/TSA mess so you can get into the darned airports.

Not that I fly much now, but I always liked it, and would like to travel more in the future!

jmonroe

sda said:

I just returned from a Honda dealer that I've done a fair amount of business and had appreciated that they rarely did addendum price stickers or when they did they were modest. No more. Look at these overpriced items! In addition the service dept tried to upsell me for air/cabin filter, fuel system cleaning, brake fluid flush, etc. Also said in 2 oil changes the timing belt needs to be replaced. (I expected that, but not the $950 price to do so.) I was also anticipating the suggestion to replace air/cabin filters so earlier this week I ordered them online for both the Pilot and Accord and bought all 4 filters for less than they were going to charge for the cabin filter for the Pilot. By the way, the cabin filter is the same # for both cars.

I'd forego everything except the Nitrogen. That will reduce the weight of the car so that when you track it the car will be faster.

jmonroe

dino001

@sda

This sticker is scandalous. GG talk about corporate greed in airlines, how do you call this one? The only way to stop this is walk into the sticker, call up the salesman or manager and point out this sticker as a specific reason you won't buy anything from them. Just like JMonroe acted on his XG300, only active action from enough people who understand meaning of these stickers can change the conduct.

As Stever says, anybody having the gaul to ask for 200 bucks for most common gas in the planet, should be expected to rip you off down the road on anything. Avoid and if ever asked (or even without asking) let them know why.

graphicguy

dino001 said:

The funniest thing. Everybody declares they hate flying and avoid it, how bad the sevice is, how much they miss old good times, yet the news just reported record numbers are expected to travel by air. So which one is it? Again - the difference between what we say and what we do. I also suspect that albeit not high quality (except the whole safety thing), more new people take tha plane for first time ever.

We don't have a choice. Unless we want to take two days of a bus or train traveling just to get to a destination before we even set up meetings.

Believe me. If there was any other way to travel (like high speed rail), I'd be all over it. Until then, we have to put up with the airlines' arrogance.

J....C130s are still used. We are working on flight simulator/trainers all the time to train new pilots to fly them.

dino001

graphicguy said:

Having flown most of my adult life for work and pleasure, I've amassed 1M+ miles flown on two airlines....Delta and American. I still fly 100K+miles/year.

Airline industry is the poster child for corporate greed run amuck. Rarely, if ever, will you hear me call for government regulation, but in this case it's warranted.

Since de-regulation, I've seen airlines merge, cut services, cut staff, etc. What used to be rare occurrences regarding staff is now commonplace. Just one example, I can't tell how many times a flight is held up because there isn't enough staff to fly planes, and we have to wait for a flight attendant or pilot who flew too many hours and has to take mandatory time off. Airlines won't hire enough staff to allow for those times.

They tout their "on-time" performance. When in truth, all they have to do is pull away from the gate to be considered "on time" take off. That doesn't allow for them pulling 50 feet away from the gate and waiting hours (has happened to my flights plenty of times). That also precludes anyone from getting off the flight to find another one that may be on time.

Instead of competing, the airlines try to gobble up as many competitors as possible in any region or route so they can control pricing.

Airline lobbyists just defeated a bill that would require airlines to provide enough space for a passenger so they can fly in some semblance of comfort. Now, airlines don't have to allow you any space, forcing you to pay more for their "comfort" seats.

Having flown so many miles, I usually get upgraded to 1st class. That nets me just enough leg room to be comfortable and maybe a cold sandwich or a beer during my flight. As others point out, 1st class used to be a whole lot different.

In fairness, on my trans-Pacific/Atlantic flights, the 1st class service is just that. First Class.

Government re-regulation needs to be instituted. Otherwise, there will be no end in sight for this type of downward spiral in an industry that should be considered an essential service.

It's all true, but we still fly in record numbers. I have to only say, in their "defense" (if you can call it that), current airline excessive profits were preceeded by decades of net losses and shareholder value destruction. Any stock market advice book written before 2015 essentially starts from saying never, ever, EVER buy an airline stock. Warren Buffet once said id somebody shot Wright brothers, they'd do the greatest favor to investor community. Had it all been evened out over that time, we would most likely all benefited, including these airlines. But airlines (as a whole industry) suffered losses for so long that when the new oligopoly finally allowed them an opportunity to get some profits, they just can't stop themselves from overplaying their currently very strong hand. The only way to break that now is to allow competition by lowering barriers of entry, e.g. let foreign flag carriers on domestic routes. More regulation may help, but only to a point - four now majors can easily "buy off" their regulators, just like they did back then. They have the money now, the watchers will likely be underpaid underqualified government stooges, easy to bribe or at least fool. BTW, didn't you say many times you paid too much taxes? What do you think more regulation means? Somebody has to build the expanded control apparatus and maintain it. Who will pay for that? I'm not against putting some screws to those airlines, but I have no illusions that it would really help in making the experience less miserable.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

Occasionally I see the Air Force doing practice landings at the local international airport. I've seen planes that look like a C17 or a C141? and a few years back and E-4 doing landings. I may have the C141 name wrong but it's a transport with 4 engines and the wings attached to the top of the body. They had a lot of then at the local base but they were being phased out. I got to fly one when I at a special program on the base -- but it was only a flight simulator they were using as they were upgrading the systems to modern era standards. Yes, I crashed both landings. .

I think all the C141s are retired. Frame fatigue or something. The C17 I think was the jet replacement for the C130s which date back to the 1950s. When Joe Biden visited West Point last year they delivered his limo in a C17 which was parked in Albany for a day. C17 is on top in this photo. C141 on bottom.

abacomike

It's amazing that dealers have the gaul to charge $199 for nitro-fill for your tires.  Every dealer I've bought cars from in the past 15 years does not charge for nitrogen.  In fact, they only have a few air compressors to provide compressed air for blowing dust off brake assemblies, etc.  95% of their hoses are fed by their nitrogen compressor.

Reducing the amount of oxygen in tires reduces oxidation, but all the nitro fill does is reduce oxygen levels by 40%.  70% of our air is already nitrogen.

oldfarmer50

2007 Ford Taurus SE. 60k miles $4500. Is it worth it?



I particularly like the cat-back exhaust.

sda

abacomike said:

It's amazing that dealers have the gaul to charge $199 for nitro-fill for your tires.  Every dealer I've bought cars from in the past 15 years does not charge for nitrogen.  In fact, they only have a few air compressors to provide compressed air for blowing dust off brake assemblies, etc.  95% of their hoses are fed by their nitrogen compressor.

Reducing the amount of oxygen in tires reduces oxidation, but all the nitro fill does is reduce oxygen levels by 40%.  70% of our air is already nitrogen.

It is truly crazy. This was a sticker on a new Accord EXw/sensing. And the dealer charges a $699 admin/doc fee. Just plain rude!

dino001

sda said:

abacomike said:

It's amazing that dealers have the gaul to charge $199 for nitro-fill for your tires.  Every dealer I've bought cars from in the past 15 years does not charge for nitrogen.  In fact, they only have a few air compressors to provide compressed air for blowing dust off brake assemblies, etc.  95% of their hoses are fed by their nitrogen compressor.

Reducing the amount of oxygen in tires reduces oxidation, but all the nitro fill does is reduce oxygen levels by 40%.  70% of our air is already nitrogen.

It is truly crazy. This was a sticker on a new Accord EXw/sensing. And the dealer charges a $699 admin/doc fee. Just plain rude!

Is that in Florida? Size of the fee sounds familiar.

dino001

abacomike said:

People traveling for vacation often have no choice but to fly.  Going on a Caribbean cruise?  Miami/Ft.Lauderdale.  Going to Disney or Universal Studios?  Orlando.  Then, people fly for work and business.

If I had to fly, I would - how else would I get to CA?  But since I do not "have to" fly, I don't.  I would love to take the train to CA, but the connections from here are horrendous.

Mike, you are making my point. How many people took a cruise in 1960s as an annual vacation routine? How many people left their state for any reason in those times? "No choice" is a strange concept, when we talk taking a trip to a Disney World. There is no contitutional ammendment saying your vacation has to be in Europe, or across the Continent.

It's all matter if perspective. Is flying less magical than in 60s, 70, or even 90s? Absolutely. But the deregulation gave us Disney World, Royal Caribbean, and other things, even if getting there isn't as nice, as we would like. I submit to you Orlando would be a little sleepy town with a dillapilated defunct park for the locals without it. Florida would probably have half the resident it has today, if not for it.

houdini1

driver100 said:

On our 5 1/2 hour flight from Toronto to Victoria we were offered 1)cookies, 2) hummus and crackers, or 3) a Kit Kat Bar.

Southwest Airlines, maybe 30-35 years ago, the hostesses would gather at the front of the plane on takeoff, and just as the plane lifted off they would dump packets of peanuts in the isle. The peanuts would slide, very fast, down the isle and as they passed, you could grab as many as you could. Lots of fun back then.

abacomike

dino001 said:

People traveling for vacation often have no choice but to fly.  Going on a Caribbean cruise?  Miami/Ft.Lauderdale.  Going to Disney or Universal Studios?  Orlando.  Then, people fly for work and business.

If I had to fly, I would - how else would I get to CA?  But since I do not "have to" fly, I don't.  I would love to take the train to CA, but the connections from here are horrendous.

Mike, you are making my point. How many people took a cruise in 1960s as an annual vacation routine? How many people left their state for any reason in those times? "No choice" is a strange concept, when we talk taking a trip to a Disney World. There is no contitutional ammendment saying your vacation has to be in Europe, or across the Continent. It's all matter if perspective. Is flying less magical than in 60s, 70, or even 90s? Absolutely. But the deregulation gave us Disney World, Royal Caribbean, and other things, even uf getting there isn't as nice, as we would like. I submit to you Orlando would be a little sleepy town with a dillapilated defunct park for the locals without it. Florida would probably have half the resident it has today, if not for it.

What I can't handle is the 30-50 minute waits to go through security and the fact that my knees hit the seat in front of me on the plane. I can't handle sitting like that for 3-1/2 hours on a leg to DFW or PSP or LAX or 5 hours on a non-stop flight.

Then, if you need to use the lav, you're in trouble.  Like I said, in an emergency I would have no choice but I would pay the extra $500-$750 each way for 1st class.  My DVT requires that I not sit in one place or position for more than an hour, if that much.

houdini1

abacomike said:

I had my MRI this morning.  The technician showed me the images on his computer screen.  The images with "contrast" showed the mass in my liver very clearly.  It sure is a big mass - about 5cm he said.  The radiologist said he will compare these results with the CT-scan results and the ultrasound results.

I should know something more difinitive by late Monday or Tuesday.  

Besides that, my kidney functions are poor.  I just hope it's temporary. 

Mike, FYI, lots of good news on new cancer treatments. Merck has out a new drug called Keytruda. It's the drug that cured Jimmy Carter of brain tumor last year. May have been used on your son. It attacks the mechanism that the tumor uses to disguise itself from the immune system. Once this mechanism is destroyed the body's immune system can finish off the cancer. No side effects like current chemo. Hopefully this is not your problem, but knowledge is power.

dino001

Agreed, Mike. The issue is, it seems enough people would rather pay less to Spirit and sit in their cramped seats with squashed knees than pay more for something better. Every single airline offering more space, better service than others would finally give in. What does it tell you? Is it just greed? Perhaps, but I think it's also the consumer either not understanding the difference, or not caring enough to pay up.

henryn

snakeweasel said:

henryn said:

I didn’t mean to stir up a major controversy over “old times” versus “present day”. Snakeweasel asked abacomike why he flew instead of driving.

Not really questioning flying over driving but it was the distance between the two points. Seriously a round trip between the two cities by car wouldn't use up a half tank of gas. According to my GPS it's 99 miles and 1.5 hours (likely less in normal traffic) by car between the two airports and according to travel sites 0.75 hours by airplane. Even in the old days of flight check in, getting to the gate and other stuff would eat up a lot of the travel time saved.

I did get your point, I was just making the counterpoint. In the "old days", flying was fun, and I never missed a chance. If someone else was paying, I was ready to go at the drop of a hat!

oldfarmer50

sda said:

I just returned from a Honda dealer that I've done a fair amount of business and had appreciated that they rarely did addendum price stickers or when they did they were modest. No more. Look at these overpriced items! In addition the service dept tried to upsell me for air/cabin filter, fuel system cleaning, brake fluid flush, etc. Also said in 2 oil changes the timing belt needs to be replaced. (I expected that, but not the $950 price to do so.) I was also anticipating the suggestion to replace air/cabin filters so earlier this week I ordered them online for both the Pilot and Accord and bought all 4 filters for less than they were going to charge for the cabin filter for the Pilot. By the way, the cabin filter is the same # for both cars.

Am I reading that right, they gouge you almost $2k for nonsense but they include the delivery charge at no cost? Hard to figure the logic. Most people accept a $800-900 delivery charge but go ballistic at that other stuff.

My favorite is the $400 for a can of ScotchGuard.

abacomike

@houdini1:

No, that drug was not used - all they did was administer high doses of proton radiation every other week for 8 months.

He still has some residual side effects from those treatments - mostly short term memory.  When he was here in September, I noticed a big difference in his behaviors and mannerisms.  He was more laid back and a bit slower in his mental processing of language input.  But thank God he is alive and he seems to be in love as well as enjoying his life.  What more could I possibly want?!

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I reading that right, they gouge you almost $2k for nonsense but they include the delivery charge at not cost? Hard to figure the logic.

I believe, delivery charge is part if the MSRP, they put the $800 "dealer whatever fee" on top of that sticker, so guess what - the real surcharge is 3 grand on top of MSRP. So guess what, they will give you grand or two "off" that "package" and still come thousands in profit. This is the exact scam dealers run in Florida, especially megastores in Japanese brands. If you don't know, you overpay thousands, thinking you just got a deal.

houdini1

abacomike said:

What more could I possibly want?!

Amen to that Mike.

ab348

If you have to take the cat I'd want at least a $1000 discount.

henryn

What I do with the nitrogen and mop-and-glo is to just ignore it. First, I go to Carmax and find out what my trade is worth. Next, I go to the dealer and find a vehicle that I want, and take it for a test drive. Then I take a picture with my cell phone of the window sticker. At that point, I refuse to go inside the dealership and negotiate. Instead, I get the salesman’s business card and leave.

At home, I go online to TrueCar and find what I should pay for the new car or truck I just looked at, complete with every option from the window sticker. Then I use a spread sheet, and work out the numbers. For my truck, last September, the numbers looked like this. Note that I am working from memory, so I have rounded off the numbers a little bit.

32,000 Truecar price for new truck
25,000 value of my trade at Carmax

7,000 difference
437.5 sales tax at 6.25% on the difference
300 for license plates, title transfer, whatever

$7,737.50 difference I will pay. I print out the spread sheet, with comments, and go back to the dealership.

I do NOT show my printout when I arrive. I ask them to present me with their numbers. It has happened that I get better numbers than I had computed. Only once, but it did happen, and I always wait to see.

After they present their numbers, which are almost always quite a bit higher, then I present my numbers. Basically saying, “Take it or leave it. You have 30 minutes to decide. After 30 minutes, I’m going somewhere else.”

I am polite, but firm. This avoids a lot of wasted time. You would think that the dealership would appreciate this, indeed I have talked to salesman and sales managers who tell me they do appreciate it. But some dealerships seem to exist only to “grind you down”.

We live in an information age. Not taking advantage of the information available seems very silly.

And I will add this. It does seem possible, for those willing to work hard at it, to beat those numbers from Truecar. The forums here at Edmunds for buying new Hondas are VERY active, and full of stories from people who actually beat the Truecar prices. I only wish we had more active buying forums for other makes and models. I have no idea why Honda forums are so active here, and others are not. I mean, the Ford F150 is the best selling new vehicle in North America for how many years running now, more than 30. But there are virtually no sales stories here at Edmunds. Why is that?

abacomike

henryn said:

What I do with the nitrogen and mop-and-glo is to just ignore it. First, I go to Carmax and find out what my trade is worth. Next, I go to the dealer and find a vehicle that I want, and take it for a test drive. Then I take a picture with my cell phone of the window sticker. At that point, I refuse to go inside the dealership and negotiate. Instead, I get the salesman’s business card and leave. At home, I go online to TrueCar and find what I should pay for the new car or truck I just looked at, complete with every option from the window sticker. Then I use a spread sheet, and work out the numbers. For my truck, last September, the numbers looked like this. Note that I am working from memory, so I have rounded off the numbers a little bit. 32,000 Truecar price for new truck 25,000 value of my trade at Carmax 7,000 difference 437.5 sales tax at 6.25% on the difference 300 for license plates, title transfer, whatever $7,737.50 difference I will pay. I print out the spread sheet, with comments, and go back to the dealership. I do NOT show my printout when I arrive. I ask them to present me with their numbers. It has happened that I get better numbers than I had computed. Only once, but it did happen, and I always wait to see. After they present their numbers, which are almost always quite a bit higher, then I present my numbers. Basically saying, “Take it or leave it. You have 30 minutes to decide. After 30 minutes, I’m going somewhere else.” I am polite, but firm. This avoids a lot of wasted time. You would think that the dealership would appreciate this, indeed I have talked to salesman and sales managers who tell me they do appreciate it. But some dealerships seem to exist only to “grind you down”. We live in an information age. Not taking advantage of the information available seems very silly. And I will add this. It does seem possible, for those willing to work hard at it, to beat those numbers from Truecar. The forums here at Edmunds for buying new Hondas are VERY active, and full of stories from people who actually beat the Truecar prices. I only wish we had more active buying forums for other makes and models. I have no idea why Honda forums are so active here, and others are not. I mean, the Ford F150 is the best selling new vehicle in North America for how many years running now, more than 30. But there are virtually no sales stories here at Edmunds. Why is that?

I do everything you do except I never look at TrueCar pricing - I look at the invoice.  I only work with invoice numbers less fleet discounts + tax, title, tags and fees.  

Dealers make their holdback + incentives + that dealer fee.  My guess is that my dealer nets about $1800 in profit on each car I buy from him.  He usually makes another $1000-$2000 on my trades for a net total, including his holdback and dealer fees of $3500+.  So if he makes that much on me, can you imagine what the average dealer actually makes, net, on each sale.

A dealer could never stay in business if it weren't for holdback, factory incentives and customer satisfaction index money.  That's why I always start my pricing at invoice because even at invoice, there is at least $3000 in triple net profit on a $78,500 car.  Of course, on a $30,000 car, there is less net profit, but they sell 5-10 times more of those than they do high priced vehicles.

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

I had a year's worth of free movie tickets back in 1980 or so.
Airplane was the only movie I ever walked out in the mddle of the movie. Awful.

I saw some bad ones, but that one was not to my tolerance.

Airplane is a classic. Now I only walked out on one movie in my life, that was "THX 1138". George Lukas owes me $3.50.

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

I had a year's worth of free movie tickets back in 1980 or so. Airplane was the only movie I ever walked out in the mddle of the movie. Awful. I saw some bad ones, but that one was not to my tolerance.

Airplane is a classic. Now I only walked out on one movie in my life, that was "THX 1138". George Lukas owes me $3.50.

"Judge Dredd" was the movie that got me walking out of the theater after only 20 minutes.  Stalone was awful - but so was everyone and everything else.  I still get the "chills" just thinking about that awful flick! 

dino001

I have some good candidates for worst movies, ever: Mystery Men, Very Bad Things, 30 Days Later. No redeeming qualities. I never felt more ripped off.

Then there are movies so bad that they are great: They Live (Carpenter's), with the fight scene spoofed in South Park.

thebean

Worst movie I ever sat through - A Bridge Too Far, also known as A Movie Too Long. Unfortunately, the girl I saw it with loved it and did not appreciate my critique afterwards.  

abacomike

I really enjoyed seeing "Ferris Beuller's Day Off" at the movies - like 1986?  I was visiting my parents up in the Catskills (not far from Albany) and we decided to go to Ellenville to the only theater within 20 miles of where they were staying.  They used to rent a bungalow on the grounds of Grossinger's Hotel and resort.  They ate their meals at the hotel but had their own house with A/C - actually much less expensive than staying at the hotel.  They also got to see all the shows on the weekends.  They usually stayed there for 8 weeks each summer.