Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stever

Cheap road tripping was a bit easier in some ways back in the day - cheap gas, lots of side roads where you could pull over and camp in a clearing or at a fishing hole or in a gravel pit. Walk into a college dorm room and grab a shower. No one would break into your car at a trailhead. Well, I did have a smash and grab at the St. Louis Arch in 1981ish.

That's about it. Gas is cheap again, cars rarely break down, there's plenty of big empty in the national forests and showers are over-rated.

And there's this new gizmo called wifi/cell/nav/sat that really helps in finding campsites and attractions.

dino001

abacomike said:

Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience..... Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Agreed But how much time it took your parents to work for that ticket of yours on Christmas? How many time could you go like that? Today it certainly sucks to fly, especially in "cattle" sections - even "First Class" is not really that for domestic flights, but you at least wait less for TSA to grope you. Note much consolation. But it still is a question what's better - unaffordable great service (or nothing), or terrible service you can afford (with better service at additional fee and great service out of reach again).

berri

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

There are some ironies in the airline business. Deregulation brought in all kinds of competition and lower airfares. The airline industry is heavily leveraged with huge capital expenditures, so the big carriers had to cut fares to compete so they could at least cover their variable costs and a piece of their heavy fixed cost burden. This couldn't realistically go on forever, and lasted longer than I thought, but eventually the resultant bankruptcies hit, the more marginal carriers went out of business or were bought out. The remaining carriers then started consolidating and now we are near an oligopoly with pricing power shifting to the airlines. Fares tend not to vary much - reminds me of the Big 3 during their auto heyday. Another interesting fact is that when the airlines first starting jamming in their seats, initially American didn't follow. Instead they charged a small premium, around $10 as I recall, on their airfare to reflect the better comfort. Guess what - they started losing a bunch of business to the cramped competitors slightly lower airfares. So basically consumers complain, but then go out and buy what's cheapest. This consumer behavior encouraged the airlines to move some of their pricing from the basic fare to additional fees. The old saying "you get what you pay for"!

suydam

I wouldn't know because we couldn't afford to fly on an airplane until I was in college. Not too many did. So I think flying probably was much nicer because it actually was a luxury item. When we travelled -- and it wasn't often -- we either drove or took the train. Now the train was a fun experience especially for a kid.

henryn

I didn’t mean to stir up a major controversy over “old times” versus “present day”. Snakeweasel asked abacomike why he flew instead of driving. In the old days, flying was an adventure, and fun, and a chance to be treated like a person of importance. These days, airports and airlines are roughly equivalent to the way cattle are herded into and out of cattle cars.

I remember, back in the mid to late 70’s, showing up for work one day around 9 a.m. and learning that I had a ticket on the noon flight from Houston to New Orleans. There was a problem with our processing system, a fix had been written, and it needed to be loaded on the mainframe in New Orleans, right now. This was before the internet, and computers did not talk to each other. I copied the fixed processing system onto a tape (10.5 inch, remember those?), stuffed the tape in my briefcase, and headed for the airport. By 2 p.m. I was at the office in New Orleans loading the new processing software onto the mainframe there.

Oh, yeah, something else I remember, thinking back on this. When I got off the plane and headed for the taxicabs, I realized that I did not know the address for our office in New Orleans. I had been there before, with a group, I knew the office was close to the Superdome, and not far from Bourbon Street, but I didn’t know or remember the street address. I had to get on a pay phone and call back to the Houston office. Remember pay phones?

All in all, it was a grand adventure, and a lot of fun. Some of that was because I was young, and life was fun. And some of it was because the airports and airlines treated you as an important person.

These days, I avoid airline travel like the plague. Part of that is because I am a grumpy old man, I admit it. But an even bigger part is the way you get treated when you go to the airport.

dino001

berri said:

So basically consumers complain, but then go out and buy what's cheapest. This consumer behavior encouraged the airlines to move some of their pricing from the basic fare to additional fees. The old saying "you get what you pay for"!

Exactly. Unfortunately, what people say and what they do is completely different thing. They say they want a quality, but they always - always act on price (in their mass of course). The history is full of inferior products taking over the world because they were cheaper.

Plane seat has even more prone to that due to our psychology. We book them in advance, sight unseen. All we see now is price. That's immediate. To imagine a better seat for extra 10, 20 or 50 dollars is simply too difficult for most. A memory of a bad experience on the previous flight is already faded. Moreover, the uncertainty of the future experience also plays against it - what if I bought a more expensive ticket and still get stuck on a bad seat, sitting next to a sweaty and stinky dude twice the size of a standard passenger? At least when buying cheap, one could say to themselves they did "everything" right and at least saved the money. Seems that there is simply too much time from the purchase to the actual experience to create enough psychological connection for an average passenger to be willing to pay up of "otherwise equal" service (or so they believe).

I think also a lot of people go cheapest they can find, expect bad service, but still "reserve right" to complain about it. They don't want to pay, they just want the stuff. By "they" I of course mean we.

henryn

I believe you have to tell them, right at the point of purchase (when they're making the decision) that you have a better package.

Seat A: $450
Seat B: $500

Seat B comes with 4 extra inches of leg room, and 6 extra inches of shoulder room

Expecting me to remember, when I fly infrequently, that Airline B is selling the better seat with more room is not likely to work. Presented the way I just showed it, heck yeah, sign me up for the extra $50.

suydam

I'm not going to blame customers for airlines' horrible service. Southwest is quite popular, low cost, doesn't add on fees and has better seats. Same with Jet Blue. The other airlines choose to gouge the customer. Unfortunately, depending on routes and airports, sometimes we have no choice but to fly with them. Deregulation did not result in wider choices for the consumers. In a few years we could have many fewer airlines than there are now due to mergers.

ab348

@berri said what I was going to say and I think he is exactly right. We are the architects of our own misfortune when it comes to air travel with the exception of the ridiculous and often surly security theater that happens now at airports. Rewarding airlines for treating passengers like cattle drives their behavior. I'm like @henryn these days, avoiding air travel whenever possible. It is just too painful.

My good old days story was from an unlikely source - Eastern Air Lines from around '86 or '87, which was not a great time for that carrier. Flying from D.C. to Florida, the flight was not too crowded and our group was seated near the rear of the plane. After the first hour or so, the cabin crew relaxed back there for most of the remainder of the flight. I was seated across the aisle from a truly beautiful blonde young flight attendant who after performing her cabin service, chattted away with me for over an hour in what I thought was a delightful New Jersey accent while she puffed away on her Virginia Slims and kept me supplied with free drinks. She was telling me about all the issues & problems of working for Eastern (which was in a tailspin that would see them go out of business a few years later) but that she still loved her job.

I always liked Eastern's livery and logo and I see that the brand has been revived recently for service out of Florida.

roadburner

I flew New York to Paris via TWA in 1981; even in coach we got a salad, a real main course, and a desert.

berri

Back in the 70's Eastern was certainly one of the best at marketing. Nice livery and modernistic silverware and other things. It is kind of funny though, when I was a young lieutenant I spent some time based in Georgia. Delta is based in Atlanta and back then most anything in the south connected in Atlanta because it was a hub for both Delta and Eastern. We had DC9 service to Atlanta on both of those carriers, but the Delta flights would always fill up first. Of course, I think those were the days of the old WHEAL slogan for "we hate Eastern Airlines", although that all actually emanated from the northeast.

cdnpinhead

Keep in mind that you're not a passenger on today's airlines, you're a self-sorting, self-propelled piece of freight.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Ain't life grand?

berri

Well, that is kind of how flight dispatchers have always had to look at it I suppose

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

henryn said:

Update on the repairs to my 2006 DTS. The body shop called me, their estimate is about $2.4k, and the car should be ready next Wednesday, so good news on that front.

That is good news for you since your Caddy looked pretty darn nice to me.

While I have you here, I think you are the guy that was looking at used vans, a Town and Country IIRC.

Son#1 has a 2008 T&C that he bought new in 2008. He allowed his wife to talk him into it because of all the goodies it had including 2 rear seat cameras to occupy his 3 sons. He has had more problems with that beast than I could post here. He even had to have the original engine replaced about 3 months after he got it and a transmission when it was about 2 years old. Both were covered under warranty so he didn't lose money because of that. But, like I said he has had way too many nuisance problems with it.

He is now in the market for another van since the T&C has around 180K miles on it and he thinks the transmission is acting up. He realizes that the newer T&C's are probably build better that his '08 but he is not even considering another one this time around. In fact, when someone asks him about his '08 they get an earful with no expletives deleted.

He is now looking at both new and used Honda, Toyota and Kia vans. His take so far is that the Toyota has the most powerful engine but not by much, however, he didn't like the interior. The Honda engine was probably like his '08 T&C but again he did not like the interior. That leaves the Kia, same power as the Honda but the interior was much nicer. Therefore, he is going with the Kia. The only decision is whether to get new or used. He says Kia is offering 0% financing on the new ones so that may tell him which way he will go.

He also said that Kia has some very aggressive pricing going on right now for the '15's in addition to the 0% financing so that is another favorable consideration for the Kia since he liked that van better anyway. He's been looking on the internet and more than likely he will be going out of state to get either new or used since the local dealers don't have the color and trim level that he wants. And get this, he will be giving Fairfax Kia a call. This is part of the dealer group where I got my '15 Genny.

Just thought you might want to hear an impartial review on other vans.

jmonroe

Woah! He got 180k miles out of it and he's badmouthing? If I got that many miles out of a car I'd be buying drinks down at the local bar.

If he didn't have to hold the cars hand for most of those miles he might not have such a low opinion of it.

Remember it's not just the miles, it's the aggravation with those miles.

jmonroe

I understand that too. The vehicle may have made it to 180k miles, but if you have to take it in for work all the time, wait for it, build your life around visits to the dealer, and it is just an extra pain who would want to do that again. Life is too short to put up with that.

OK, that brings my next question. If the car was so troublesome why keep it for all those miles? I've driven hoopties all my life but only because I couldn't afford better. If I could I'd trade into something better.

'farmer',

Since this is my sons van that is being questioned, I can answer that better than 'driver'.

As his van has been going through life and I heard about his nuisance problems, I asked him a couple of times why he's putting up with it, why not get another van. His response was, "it's just good enough to keep because it isn't worth a whole lot if I traded it. I might as well keep it until I can't live with it anymore. So far nothing catastrophic has happened. If I can get another year or two out of it, limping along as it has been I'll put up with".

Well, he's at that point now with a possible tranny problem plus his ongoing dislike of it in general so he's now looking to get another van. I expect a word on that pretty soon and I'll post about that when it happens.

jmonroe

driver100

JMonroe Since this is my sons van that is being questioned, I can answer that better than 'driver'.

You did answer it better than I could, because people hold on to a vehicle for different reasons, and you know your son's reason better than me.

I would say people hold on to an unreliable car because time spent in the garage is not that much of a problem for them. To me, time is money and wasted time to do the things I want to be doing, and I hate making appointments, and waiting for a car to be fixed....plus the down time the faulty car is causing me.

The other reason for holding onto a troublesome car is because you always think once this repair has been made I will get thousands more miles before I have another problem. That is almost never true.....usually you get another big repair and you are out even more money.

Another reason is just not being able to afford a newer car, so you keep the car until you absolutely have to buy another car.

I would always try my best to get away from a lemon asap.

Talking about vans....I was in a Toyota taxi van while in Victoria B.C. and I hate vans. I hate getting in and out, I hate the seating position, I hate the way the seatbelts aren't in the right place, I hate the sightlines for seeing out, I hate the thin frail sardine can sides, I hate the exposed luggage area..........but, that's just me.

berri

Wait 'til you get older driver - just kidding!

jmonroe

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

henryn said:

Update on the repairs to my 2006 DTS. The body shop called me, their estimate is about $2.4k, and the car should be ready next Wednesday, so good news on that front.

That is good news for you since your Caddy looked pretty darn nice to me.

While I have you here, I think you are the guy that was looking at used vans, a Town and Country IIRC.

Son#1 has a 2008 T&C that he bought new in 2008. He allowed his wife to talk him into it because of all the goodies it had including 2 rear seat cameras to occupy his 3 sons. He has had more problems with that beast than I could post here. He even had to have the original engine replaced about 3 months after he got it and a transmission when it was about 2 years old. Both were covered under warranty so he didn't lose money because of that. But, like I said he has had way too many nuisance problems with it.

He is now in the market for another van since the T&C has around 180K miles on it and he thinks the transmission is acting up. He realizes that the newer T&C's are probably build better that his '08 but he is not even considering another one this time around. In fact, when someone asks him about his '08 they get an earful with no expletives deleted.

He is now looking at both new and used Honda, Toyota and Kia vans. His take so far is that the Toyota has the most powerful engine but not by much, however, he didn't like the interior. The Honda engine was probably like his '08 T&C but again he did not like the interior. That leaves the Kia, same power as the Honda but the interior was much nicer. Therefore, he is going with the Kia. The only decision is whether to get new or used. He says Kia is offering 0% financing on the new ones so that may tell him which way he will go.

He also said that Kia has some very aggressive pricing going on right now for the '15's in addition to the 0% financing so that is another favorable consideration for the Kia since he liked that van better anyway. He's been looking on the internet and more than likely he will be going out of state to get either new or used since the local dealers don't have the color and trim level that he wants. And get this, he will be giving Fairfax Kia a call. This is part of the dealer group where I got my '15 Genny.

Just thought you might want to hear an impartial review on other vans.

jmonroe

Curious which setup he had. In 2008, you could get the ancient 3.3/4-speed or ancient 3.8 with new 6-speed, or the 4.0/6-speed.

We never had any powertrain problems with our 4.0/6-spd. I also didn't follow the BS about lifetime fill on the tranny, though, and changed out the fluid twice while we had it. The problems I had with ours were all accessory related. Traded out of it with... I think 90k miles? Into a new 2014.

OK , I should have known this would happen. Just after I made my post to 'farmer' a little while ago, my son called me.

Here goes:

His '08 T&C has the 3.8 engine with the 6 speed tranny.

He is going to buy a new 2015 Kia van with the color and trim level he wants. The exterior is Burgandy with black / gray seats. He's waiting for an email confirming all the particulars from a dealer in VA. He and his wife will be going on Sunday to get it.

Mrs. j and I get to baby sit our 3 grandson's starting on Saturday night so that they can leave early Sunday morning so they can be at the dealership before noon.

This will be one hectic kid sitting day for us. HIs oldest son (14) has a soccer game, his middle son (12) has a hockey practice and his youngest son (will be 10 in August) has a hockey practice and a baseball practice. I'm not sure how we are going to pull this off. We only have 2 cars and 2 drivers.

jmonroe

thebean

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

stever

jmonroe said:

This will be one hectic kid sitting day for us. HIs oldest son (14) has a soccer game, his middle son (12) has a hockey practice and his youngest son (will be 10 in August) has a hockey practice and a baseball practice. I'm not sure how we are going to pull this off. We only have 2 cars and 2 drivers.

Sounds like you need to run out and rent a minivan.

abacomike

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

What do you mean?  I have no idea what you are trying to communicate!!

28firefighter

I believe he is quoting Airplane.

abacomike

Ahhhh!  That boy who was in the cockpit in Airplane, the movie.  Now I get it!  

Michaell

abacomike said:

Ahhhh!  That boy who was in the cockpit in Airplane, the movie.  Now I get it!  

"Roger, Roger"

thebean

abacomike said:

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

What do you mean?  I have no idea what you are trying to communicate!!

That's a line from the movie "Airplane" where the pilot invited a young boy up into the cockpit and asked him several uncomfortable questions with this one being the last one.  One of my favorite movies.  

jmonroe

driver100 said:

JMonroe Since this is my sons van that is being questioned, I can answer that better than 'driver'.

You did answer it better than I could, because people hold on to a vehicle for different reasons, and you know your son's reason better than me.

I would say people hold on to an unreliable car because time spent in the garage is not that much of a problem for them. To me, time is money and wasted time to do the things I want to be doing, and I hate making appointments, and waiting for a car to be fixed....plus the down time the faulty car is causing me.

The other reason for holding onto a troublesome car is because you always think once this repair has been made I will get thousands more miles before I have another problem. That is almost never true.....usually you get another big repair and you are out even more money.

Another reason is just not being able to afford a newer car, so you keep the car until you absolutely have to buy another car.

I would always try my best to get away from a lemon asap.

Talking about vans....I was in a Toyota taxi van while in Victoria B.C. and I hate vans. I hate getting in and out, I hate the seating position, I hate the way the seatbelts aren't in the right place, I hate the sightlines for seeing out, I hate the thin frail sardine can sides, I hate the exposed luggage area..........but, that's just me.

Damn, that is a whole lot of hating for a guy that never owned a van but only rode in one occasionally. Why don't you check to see if there is a pill to help solve your hatred problem.

To tell you the truth my son doesn't like them very much either but having kids that have to be schlepped around all the time with sports equipment and sometimes the kids friends with their gear, he has relented to the fact that his family needs a "soccer mom's van". His car is far from a van. He has a G37 and he drives that as much as he can so he won't have to be seen in a van more than he has to.

With his kids involved in sports activities and especially when they have out of town hockey tournaments the van is the only vehicle to do that kind of hauling around. An SUV will not be able to haul the hockey bags and luggage too. Believe me he tried to get all that stuff to fit in an SUV when he was starting his search for a replacement for his van, but it just wouldn't fit no matter how hard he tried and he refuses to go through the work of installing a roof rack other than when going on vacations.

As for being able to afford a new van, he could have bought a new one if he wanted to or had to but as long as the problems weren't major he put up with them. Not anymore though.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead

It's called "Airplane," the movie. It's a classic, but only if you've seen it. I watched it again all the way through a few months ago -- many catch phrases that are still in use:

A hospital? What is it?
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked?

Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?

Yeah, you had to be there.

jmonroe

stever said:

jmonroe said:

This will be one hectic kid sitting day for us. HIs oldest son (14) has a soccer game, his middle son (12) has a hockey practice and his youngest son (will be 10 in August) has a hockey practice and a baseball practice. I'm not sure how we are going to pull this off. We only have 2 cars and 2 drivers.

Sounds like you need to run out and rent a minivan.

C'mon, why do I have to rent a van when you have one. Don't we know each other well enough to get a deal done with this?

jmonroe

isellhondas

abacomike said:

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

What do you mean?  I have no idea what you are trying to communicate!!

If you never saw the movie Airplane you wouldn't understand.

That was one funny movie!

isellhondas

thebean said:

abacomike said:

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

What do you mean?  I have no idea what you are trying to communicate!!

That's a line from the movie "Airplane" where the pilot invited a young boy up into the cockpit and asked him several uncomfortable questions with this one being the last one.  One of my favorite movies.  

I liked the autopilot!

stever

jmonroe said:

C'mon, why do I have to rent a van when you have one. Don't we know each other well enough to get a deal done with this?

I'm actually using it Saturday so I didn't want to offer and get your hopes up. But since you don't need it until Sunday, sure, help yourself.

berri

The auto pilot was certainly "puffed up"

jmonroe

stever said:

jmonroe said:

C'mon, why do I have to rent a van when you have one. Don't we know each other well enough to get a deal done with this?

I'm actually using it Saturday so I didn't want to offer and get your hopes up. But since you don't need it until Sunday, sure, help yourself.

Now that's what I call a real poster buddy.

jmonroe

explorerx4

Back when I was 9 years old, I flew back from Germany on Lufthansa.
They had a chef on board who made me a special cookie and I got to go into the cockpit of a 707 over the Atlantic.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

GG, Good review on the Mitsu. The only one I had as a rental was an Outlander about 6 years ago and I actually liked it...nice size, comfortable, solid, good ride, fair bit of power.

I suppose the Lancer is made to sell at the lowest price possible.......in that market people probably don't care about all the things you noticed....they buy based on price and especially monthly payment.

Too bad, for a bit more money there are much better cars out there....and how do they stay in business?

Thanks, Driver. I remember those turbo AWD Eclipses has being pretty darned fun to drive (never owned one, but test drove plenty). I think the Montero was relatively well respected in its day as an SUV. Then the 3000GT actually competed well with Porche's.

The Lancer? It was like they didn't even make an effort. IF I were an engineer that worked on it, I'd be ashamed.

Why not find a slightly used EVO. Looks like a Lancer but under steer it don't.

driver100

berri said:

Wait 'til you get older driver - just kidding!

When I can't get into a car very well, I will get an SUV type vehicle, but never a mini van.

Did I mention it rattled a lot too, the seats seem to move around and make noise. I realize the Toyota is one of the better ones. The best one I was in was a Honda....it was pretty car like for ride etc., since it is a car, but still, I feel like I am on a bus.... at least in a car in a car I feel like it is more like a limo.

berri

Yeah, Honda is the best driver of the bunch. Handles well for a minivan really. I owned one, but build quality wasn't up to snuff.

driver100

abacomike said:

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

abacomike What do you mean?  I have no idea what you are trying to communicate!!

It is a line from the movie "Airplane" when a little kid goes up to the cockpit to watch the pilot....actually pretty funny if you remember the movie.

I guess I was a little late.........but, glad so many people remember that scene and that incredibly funny movie. I like the background banter......(man's voice) parking only in the green zone - no parking in the red zone.....(woman's voice)parking in the red zone only - no parking in the green zone.....and then they argue over it.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

dino001 said:

So if you are part of the elite or flying on somebody else's dime, you'd say those were "good times". Rest of us would say we should be glad we can fly at all, even if in much crappier environment. BTW, even for the elites, the experience today may actually be better. I bet $20K+ first class ticket on A380 on Emirates gives you much better experience than its equivalent from 70s on first generation 747. From lounge to private suite on the plane, to concierge service at the destination. So those guys aren't hurting. I do believe "gold times" for American traveller were 90s - cheap fuel, lots of carriers, cut throat competition, low ticket prices, treating economy passenger like humans. 2001 changed all of it.

The whole notion of "old times were better" (by which I mean 30, 40, 50 years ago) comes from our selective memories and idealized view of our own youth. A dispassionate analysis would often debunk it easily.

Was it really better, when a man's suit cost month of salary rather than small fraction? The suit might have been better quality there and the department store salesman/woman provided much better service during the sale, but people affording one good suit was better than multiple suits of somewhat lesser quality? Not sure.

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

The "Connies" were one of the most beautiful piston driven aircraft ever. My personal favorite. The best we ever got in Albany were DC 7s. I do remember going to the airport to pick up my father. You waited practically under the wing seperated only by a hip high fence that even as a kid I could climb.


IIRC I flew a L-1011 from Chicago to LA once.


The L-1011s left in service in the US are mainly military transports or fire fighting planes. I occasionally see the tanker versions doing touch and go practice as I drive my school kids past the airport. Big planes compared to the Boeing 737s and Airbus 320s that service our area.

stever

Mine rattles quite a bit, need to tighten up the sliding doors again. Doesn't help that I live down a gravel road. The worst rattling comes from the disc brakes of all things, and the rears at that. I think the anti-rattle clips keep falling off (that gravel road again?). Wish it had rear drums.

Took the spare down from underneath the center of the van and aired it up to 60psi. It was down to ~28. That's never a fun job on a minivan either.

berri

The L-1011 was a magnificent wide body, but late to the market. So basically only Eastern, Delta and TWA flew them here. Some say that if the United Sioux City DC10, or the American O'Hare DC10 had been Tri-Stars, the crashes wouldn't have happened because of the way the hydraulic lines ran in the two different aircraft. The lines were more separated on the Lockheed 1011. ORD-LAX would have been a TWA flight.

driver100

On our 5 1/2 hour flight from Toronto to Victoria we were offered 1)cookies, 2) hummus and crackers, or 3) a Kit Kat Bar.

driver100

stever said:

Mine rattles quite a bit, need to tighten up the sliding doors again. Doesn't help that I live down a gravel road. The worst rattling comes from the disc brakes of all things, and the rears at that. I think the anti-rattle clips keep falling off (that gravel road again?). Wish it had rear drums.

Took the spare down from underneath the center of the van and aired it up to 60psi. It was down to ~28. That's never a fun job on a minivan either.

Maybe vans are weaker overall. Not as much cross bracing and places to anchor things like seats. I know they are perfect for many people...they can haul people and lots of stuff, but, I don't see how there is a lot of driving pleasure...unless you always wanted to drive a bus.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

I believe he is quoting Airplane.

Either that or he's coming on to Mike.

stever

driver100 said:

I don't see how there is a lot of driving pleasure...unless you always wanted to drive a bus.

I did enjoy my bus driving days.

1969 VW Bus.

I don't remember the '89 Voyager noises; the '99 Quest was okay. My brother's Odysseys seem screwed together better (they mile them up too).

Mr_Shiftright

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

LOL! Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

thebean

oldfarmer50 said:

I believe he is quoting Airplane.

Either that or he's coming on to Mike.

LOL!  You found me out.  

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

thebean said:

abacomike said:

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

Joey, you ever see a grown man naked?

LOL! Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

Ever been to sea Billy?

abacomike

I had my MRI this morning.  The technician showed me the images on his computer screen.  The images with "contrast" showed the mass in my liver very clearly.  It sure is a big mass - about 5cm he said.  The radiologist said he will compare these results with the CT-scan results and the ultrasound results.

I should know something more difinitive by late Monday or Tuesday.  

Besides that, my kidney functions are poor.  I just hope it's temporary. 

roadburner

Just know that we are all in your corner, Mike.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

dino001 said:

So if you are part of the elite or flying on somebody else's dime, you'd say those were "good times". Rest of us would say we should be glad we can fly at all, even if in much crappier environment. BTW, even for the elites, the experience today may actually be better. I bet $20K+ first class ticket on A380 on Emirates gives you much better experience than its equivalent from 70s on first generation 747. From lounge to private suite on the plane, to concierge service at the destination. So those guys aren't hurting. I do believe "gold times" for American traveller were 90s - cheap fuel, lots of carriers, cut throat competition, low ticket prices, treating economy passenger like humans. 2001 changed all of it.

The whole notion of "old times were better" (by which I mean 30, 40, 50 years ago) comes from our selective memories and idealized view of our own youth. A dispassionate analysis would often debunk it easily.

Was it really better, when a man's suit cost month of salary rather than small fraction? The suit might have been better quality there and the department store salesman/woman provided much better service during the sale, but people affording one good suit was better than multiple suits of somewhat lesser quality? Not sure.

When I was 10-11 years old, I vividly remember getting on an Eastern Airlines Super G Lockheed Constellation in Miami for my return trip to New York's Idlewild airport.  It was Christmas Day and there were only 15 passengers on the 88 passenger plane.

No security, no hassle, no stress.  I presented my ticket (they were always completed in writing - no computers) at the gate and walked onto the Tarmac over to the stairway and climbed aboard the plane.  The tail section had a 10 seat horseshoe shaped lounge for smoking and cocktails.  The seats were 2 across on each side of the fuselage and they were heavily padded and when you pushed yourself back, a foot extender would come out where you placed your legs - like a recliner.

Turkey dinner was served in 4 courses with linens and real silverware.  There were 4 stewardesses on board all dressed in light blue suits with blue caps.

During the flight, the pilot came back to me and my brother and asked if we'd like to go up to the cockpit with him.  So we sat on the pilots lap and helped fly the plane.  I remember there were two round magnified Windows on each side of the cockpit where the pilots could visually check on all four radial engines.

The environment on the plain was relaxed and people always dressed formally (men wore business suits and women wore dresses/skirts etc).  It was an experience to fly in those days.  The comfort of the passenger was foremost on the minds of the stewardesses.

The food was delicious and hot with large portions.  Yes, flying in the 50's and 60's was a great experience.

In 1991, I flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta and got on an Eastern Airlines L-1011 and was in first class.  It was a 5 hour flight to Los Angeles.  Two meals were served - breakfast and Lunch.  I felt like I was a King and the champagne and cocktails were unending.  The food was served a la carte off traveling trays - you selected what you wanted.

Today, I would only travel by plane if it was an emergency - no way do I want to travel on a plane out of any major airport here in the US.

The "Connies" were one of the most beautiful piston driven aircraft ever. My personal favorite. The best we ever got in Albany were DC 7s. I do remember going to the airport to pick up my father. You waited practically under the wing seperated only by a hip high fence that even as a kid I could climb.


IIRC I flew a L-1011 from Chicago to LA once.


The L-1011s left in service in the US are mainly military transports or fire fighting planes. I occasionally see the tanker versions doing touch and go practice as I drive my school kids past the airport. Big planes compared to the Boeing 737s and Airbus 320s that service our area.



Darn it 'farmer', I get chills whenever someone says "touch and goes". This is because I was a Navy airdale in a transport squadron stationed at Pax River Md back in the early 60's. We did plenty of pilot trainers known as "PT's" and PT's resulted in many touch and goes due to them being training flights and I was known as the "PT Kid". Not something to brag about because, as the newest member of a flight crew I got more than my share of PT's due to the old timers being able to refuse them unless they had to get in their "flight time" to maintain their flight status and get their flight pay for a given month. Talk about RHIP, I knew all too well how that worked. :@

One day I had the morning PT which is usually a 4 hour jaunt. No problem since I did many of those. This 4 hour test flight ran into 5 hours. OK, still no big deal since I did a few of those too. So what's the problem you ask? Since we were late getting back to the squadron I thought it would be a good idea to let my division officer know that I was going to the chow hall and I'd be a little late getting back to the hanger. He said, "don't be late because something came up and you are now scheduled for the afternoon PT which is still going to take off on time. So make sure you are not late getting to the plane" and he tells me the planes tail number and off I rush to the chow hall to gulp down some food.

I counted 38 touch and goes that day and more than half of those were logged during the afternoon PT which also lasted more than 4 hours. This reinforced my handle as the "PT Kid". I was discharged in July 1963 and because of stuff like that I kinda lost my love of flying. There are some things you never forget.

jmonroe