Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

OK, since we are talking tires, I took Mrs. j's 2012 Legacy in for PA state inspection yesterday and the guy I have been dealing with for years tells me the rear tires should be replaced but the fronts are OK but because this is an AWD car all of the tires have to be replaced and he gives me his price for several tires that he can get but they are not the Bridgestone Serenity that are on the car now. Since I have been dealing with the local Firestone store I told him that they will probably be giving me a pretty good adjustment since I have the lifetime balancing, rotation and lifetime alignment with them.

I go to the Firestone store and they said only the rear ones are bad but since the fronts are OK they can only give me an adjustment for the rear tires. I said, "so that is my reward for owning an AWD drive, huh? He essentially agreed with me but he couldn't give me an adjustment for the fronts because they still have around 50% tread on them. Firestone is the store that I have been doing the rebalancing, rotating, and alignments with since I bought those tires. So, I said, "your price for me buying 2 new tires and getting a 60% adjustment for the rear tires is more than the inspecting shop wants for 4 new tires". The guy says those tires are not the same quality as the Serenity's. When I told him for the price difference, about $235, I didn't care and would buy 4 new tires from the inspection garage. All of a sudden, he will give me a 50% credit for the front tires and 60% credit for the rear tires.

I'm waiting for his call when they come in. I don't want to go this week even if he calls today or Friday because of all the holiday mess that will be going on. I'll probably go some day next week but hopefully before it snows.

jmonroe

What good is a warranty if when one tire goes you have to replace all 4 tires? I thought AWD cars had to have tires replaced in pairs at least.....didn't even think of replacing them in 4s.

The tire on the E400 kept leaking so I took it in to the dealer. They told me I needed a new tire, the sidewall was damaged....couldn't patch it. I specifically asked if I should replace the pair of tires. He said the tread was still good (about 24000 miles) on the other tire, I would be wasting my money replacing both tires. The rear tires are a different size...or were a different size since the car is no longer with us.

I would read up whether you have to replace all 4 tires at this time. Also how many miles on the Sube?

I have heard about replacing all 4 tires on an AWD car before but I decided to do some checking online and found what I show below. There are other articles that say the same thing. Then I called the dealer and he confirmed it.

Subarus: Subarus have, to our knowledge, the tightest tolerance of any AWD system. Since we see so many, we can tell you what the tolerance is. It can be stated in two ways: The first is 2/32nds tread depth across all four tires. The problem with this is that actual tire dimensions can vary from brand to brand and even from model to model. Therefore the 2/32nds rule is only good if you have the exact same size, brand, and model tire. The other way to check is to measure the tire around the circumference and then the tolerance is 1/4". That was circumference, not diameter, so you have to have a flexible tape ruler and measure around the tread of the tire. Also, having air in the tire affects the circumference. Though the change due to having air in it is only about 1/8", it's pretty critical since the tolerance is only 1/4". Therefore, to get an accurate measurement, it's necessary to let the air out before you measure (since the prospective replacement probably won't be aired up). This second method allows you to check compatibility with any make or model of tire. When we were almost finished with this article, a Subaru came in that needed only one tire, so the picture shows us measuring the prospective replacement tire with our "Subaru Tool".

You may ask what the big deal is? Well, on the Subarus, if all four tires aren't matched within 1/4" around the circumference, you will break the transmission, not maybe or sometimes - it definitely happens. Granted it won't happen overnight, and the AWD on many Subarus can be disabled, but the transmissions can definitely get ruined and then they have to be repaired or replaced. Then the cost will be a lot more than the cost of tires!

If I didn't know better, I'd say Subaru and other AWD car companies are in cahoots with tire manufactures.

So, I'm screwed.

jmonroe

So I have heard varied reports on this over the years. My problem with the description above is that damned near every car on the road is very likely driving around with more than a lousy 2/32s difference in tread depth amongst their tires. Just as you were told that 2 of your tires needed replacing while 2 were OK. So that means you probably had something more like 4/32s difference. By that description above, you MUST have a broken transmission. So, do you?

The tranny is fine but I don't want to get into it with a dealer if there is a problem.

I could opt to get a tire shave like Tire Rack suggests but I'm not doing that either.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=18&

jmonroe

Tire Rack stole my idea of shaving the one new tire to match the other tires. Actually, it sounds like a good plan........$25 to $35 to shave one tire to match the other 3, and you are all set. Better than buying 4 new tires and then getting a flat tire or blow out and replace all 4 tires again.

Tire shaving has ben around for a long time and I once considered doing it back in the 80's with a rear wheel drive Buick but I just bit the bullet and bought 2 new tires. IIRC there was about 50% on the tire that was still good on the front. Somehow, I just couldn't get over giving away half of a new tire so the two front tires matched.

If with the Subaru, I did a shave job and then had a tranny problem I wouldn't want to explain having two different brands. Although, I'm pretty sure I could get the same model Bridgestone tire from Tire Rack, I just don't want to go that route. Something about throwing away around 50% of good rubber just doesn't sit right with me.

jmonroe

jmonroe

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

Hey sneakers, are those Nokian snow tires? They look a lot like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R snow tires I bought for my '09 Genny in 2010. They were pretty good tires.

I bought dedicated rims for the rear tires and they still have some tread on them but they won't fit the '15 Genny.

I bet you never thought an innocent post like yours would stir up this much tire talk, did you?.

jmonroe

stever

iluvmysephia1 said:

Would that be a Ford Focus hatch, stever, not an Escort hatch? And Kia goes for the jugular with that Caribbean Blue. Ratchet your price about $7,500 up with the package up, just ta obtain that nice blue color.

lol, did I really say Escort? I'm such a car guy. When did Ford quit making those anyway, 1991?

@oldfarmer50, was making a Wally run tonight but we went by our friend's house so I could take care of some "ladder" chores for her. So she and my wife ran over to get some groceries and I forgot all about asking her to drop the film off.

Maybe when I pick up the rental Friday at the collision place I'll remember to take my phone or digicam....

Michaell

stever said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Would that be a Ford Focus hatch, stever, not an Escort hatch? And Kia goes for the jugular with that Caribbean Blue. Ratchet your price about $7,500 up with the package up, just ta obtain that nice blue color.

lol, did I really say Escort? I'm such a car guy. When did Ford quit making those anyway, 1991?

@oldfarmer50, was making a Wally run tonight but we went by our friend's house so I could take care of some "ladder" chores for her. So she and my wife ran over to get some groceries and I forgot all about asking her to drop the film off.

Maybe when I pick up the rental Friday at the collision place I'll remember to take my phone or digicam....

My wife and I had a '97 Escort. I think it was replaced by the Focus in 2001.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

OK, since we are talking tires, I took Mrs. j's 2012 Legacy in for PA state inspection yesterday and the guy I have been dealing with for years tells me the rear tires should be replaced but the fronts are OK but because this is an AWD car all of the tires have to be replaced and he gives me his price for several tires that he can get but they are not the Bridgestone Serenity that are on the car now. Since I have been dealing with the local Firestone store I told him that they will probably be giving me a pretty good adjustment since I have the lifetime balancing, rotation and lifetime alignment with them.

I go to the Firestone store and they said only the rear ones are bad but since the fronts are OK they can only give me an adjustment for the rear tires. I said, "so that is my reward for owning an AWD drive, huh? He essentially agreed with me but he couldn't give me an adjustment for the fronts because they still have around 50% tread on them. Firestone is the store that I have been doing the rebalancing, rotating, and alignments with since I bought those tires. So, I said, "your price for me buying 2 new tires and getting a 60% adjustment for the rear tires is more than the inspecting shop wants for 4 new tires". The guy says those tires are not the same quality as the Serenity's. When I told him for the price difference, about $235, I didn't care and would buy 4 new tires from the inspection garage. All of a sudden, he will give me a 50% credit for the front tires and 60% credit for the rear tires.

I'm waiting for his call when they come in. I don't want to go this week even if he calls today or Friday because of all the holiday mess that will be going on. I'll probably go some day next week but hopefully before it snows.

jmonroe

What good is a warranty if when one tire goes you have to replace all 4 tires? I thought AWD cars had to have tires replaced in pairs at least.....didn't even think of replacing them in 4s.

The tire on the E400 kept leaking so I took it in to the dealer. They told me I needed a new tire, the sidewall was damaged....couldn't patch it. I specifically asked if I should replace the pair of tires. He said the tread was still good (about 24000 miles) on the other tire, I would be wasting my money replacing both tires. The rear tires are a different size...or were a different size since the car is no longer with us.

I would read up whether you have to replace all 4 tires at this time. Also how many miles on the Sube?

I have heard about replacing all 4 tires on an AWD car before but I decided to do some checking online and found what I show below. There are other articles that say the same thing. Then I called the dealer and he confirmed it.

Subarus: Subarus have, to our knowledge, the tightest tolerance of any AWD system. Since we see so many, we can tell you what the tolerance is. It can be stated in two ways: The first is 2/32nds tread depth across all four tires. The problem with this is that actual tire dimensions can vary from brand to brand and even from model to model. Therefore the 2/32nds rule is only good if you have the exact same size, brand, and model tire. The other way to check is to measure the tire around the circumference and then the tolerance is 1/4". That was circumference, not diameter, so you have to have a flexible tape ruler and measure around the tread of the tire. Also, having air in the tire affects the circumference. Though the change due to having air in it is only about 1/8", it's pretty critical since the tolerance is only 1/4". Therefore, to get an accurate measurement, it's necessary to let the air out before you measure (since the prospective replacement probably won't be aired up). This second method allows you to check compatibility with any make or model of tire. When we were almost finished with this article, a Subaru came in that needed only one tire, so the picture shows us measuring the prospective replacement tire with our "Subaru Tool".

You may ask what the big deal is? Well, on the Subarus, if all four tires aren't matched within 1/4" around the circumference, you will break the transmission, not maybe or sometimes - it definitely happens. Granted it won't happen overnight, and the AWD on many Subarus can be disabled, but the transmissions can definitely get ruined and then they have to be repaired or replaced. Then the cost will be a lot more than the cost of tires!

If I didn't know better, I'd say Subaru and other AWD car companies are in cahoots with tire manufactures.

So, I'm screwed.

jmonroe

The heck with AWD. It's cheaper to just get a set of chains. Man, in the old days there was nothing that could stop you when you were chaining.

I've probably had less experience in the snow than almost anyone on here, but I did have a few rounds with it in my youth. Chains were great, and studded snow tires were pretty awesome. I think they made those illegal though?

Chains were the best but they are sooo inconvenient because once you are on the open road that is clear they can't be used. Even on snow they are the roughest ride there is but you do go.

As for studded snow tires they were all the rage here in South Western PA back in the 70's, and 80's and I had plenty of them in those years. Once front wheel drive came along they seemed to go out of favor.

FWIW, studded tires are still legal in PA but there is a limited time that they can be used. Something like November to mid April IIRC

jmonroe

Ah childhood memories. I can still remember mom taking us somewhere in the 1953 Ford with the chains on. Kind of sounded like jingle bells as I lay on the rear deck (what seat belts?) looking up through the glass hoping to spot Santa. The best part was when one link would break and the wacking against the inner fender would sound like the end of the world. Good times.




Once I started driving I think I skipped over the introduction of studded snows because I don't ever remember driving with them until I bought the RWD Lincoln. Was not impressed with the no-name set I bought used off Craigslist. I'll get a chance to see how they compare to non studded this winter since my niece curbed a rear wheel and sliced the sidewall on the old studded set.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

stever said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Would that be a Ford Focus hatch, stever, not an Escort hatch? And Kia goes for the jugular with that Caribbean Blue. Ratchet your price about $7,500 up with the package up, just ta obtain that nice blue color.

lol, did I really say Escort? I'm such a car guy. When did Ford quit making those anyway, 1991?

@oldfarmer50, was making a Wally run tonight but we went by our friend's house so I could take care of some "ladder" chores for her. So she and my wife ran over to get some groceries and I forgot all about asking her to drop the film off.

Maybe when I pick up the rental Friday at the collision place I'll remember to take my phone or digicam....

My wife and I had a '97 Escort. I think it was replaced by the Focus in 2001.

I liked the looks of the Escort better but I understand that the Focus was an all around better car.

explorerx4

Happy Thanksgiving everyone,. If you don't celebrate it, Happy Thursday.
There are different flavors of AWD.
Subaru probably has full time 4WD.
I know our recent Escapes have a part time system.
Power to all 4 wheels up to about 20 mph, then FWD from there, unless there is slippage.
It's probably more forgiving.
I know my wife blew out a tire @16k miles, but the tire dealer said a new one would still be within the tolerance.
3 years later, the same tires are still on there.
I did run it a pound or 2 lower that the other tires, just in case.
My daughter's Fusion is in one of the garage bays right now and we are going to check and set the tires pressures, if needed.
I even bought her and fiancé a new tire gauge, it's mostly for tread longevity.

driver100

stever said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Would that be a Ford Focus hatch, stever, not an Escort hatch? And Kia goes for the jugular with that Caribbean Blue. Ratchet your price about $7,500 up with the package up, just ta obtain that nice blue color.

. So she and my wife ran over to get some groceries and I forgot all about asking her to drop the film off.

.

What is film and why do you drop it off? Is that some new invention?

driver100

jmonroe said:

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

Hey sneakers, are those Nokian snow tires? They look a lot like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R snow tires I bought for my '09 Genny in 2010. They were pretty good tires.

I bought dedicated rims for the rear tires and they still have some tread on them but they won't fit the '15 Genny.

I bet you never thought an innocent post like yours would stir up this much tire talk, did you?.

jmonroe

Maybe you could buy a new tire and don't fill it up with as much air, then it will have the same circumference as the older tires.

And, what happens if your tires get a little low in pressure once in awhile, does that ruin the transmission too?

oldfarmer50

Watching auctions this morning and I notice 3 types of cars:

Restorations-restored to look factory new but with original mechanicals. Matching numbers are all important.

Resto mods-car looks original but has modern or enhanced mechanicals. Some look factory while others are obviously modified.

Barn finds-looks like it was actually just pulled out of a barn. Faded paint, rust, ripped seats.

It's the last one I don't get. It seems these barn cars are bringing comparable prices and the buyers intend to drive them just as they are. What's up with that?

houdini1

I remember reading somewhere that the Suburu Symetrical awd is different from almost all other awd systems. All four wheels are engaged at all times but with the ability to send more power to any one wheel that is slipping and needs more power.

Most, if not all, others are normally fwd until more traction is needed, then some power is directed to the rear wheels.

The Suburu system does work better, but maybe the tires wear differently than other awd systems.

qbrozen

houdini1 said:

I remember reading somewhere that the Suburu Symetrical awd is different from almost all other awd systems. All four wheels are engaged at all times but with the ability to send more power to any one wheel that is slipping and needs more power. Most, if not all, others are normally fwd until more traction is needed, then some power is directed to the rear wheels. The Suburu system does work better, but maybe the tires wear differently than other awd systems.

Definitely not all. AWD added to a RWD car typically winds up being RWD biased. The main reason why Subie is different is because they are designed to be AWD from the outset rather than a FWD or RWD platform with AWD as an option.

snakeweasel

Wow been away for a few days and see over 300 messages. Oh well I will get to them but first I want to wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving. Don't over eat by to much.

houdini1

qbrozen said:

houdini1 said:

I remember reading somewhere that the Suburu Symetrical awd is different from almost all other awd systems. All four wheels are engaged at all times but with the ability to send more power to any one wheel that is slipping and needs more power.

Most, if not all, others are normally fwd until more traction is needed, then some power is directed to the rear wheels.

The Suburu system does work better, but maybe the tires wear differently than other awd systems.

Definitely not all. AWD added to a RWD car typically winds up being RWD biased. The main reason why Subie is different is because they are designed to be AWD from the outset rather than a FWD or RWD platform with AWD as an option.

Yep, my LS460 AWD is rear wheel biased.

jmonroe

explorerx4 said:

Happy Thanksgiving everyone,. If you don't celebrate it, Happy Thursday.
There are different flavors of AWD.
Subaru probably has full time 4WD.
I know our recent Escapes have a part time system.
Power to all 4 wheels up to about 20 mph, then FWD from there, unless there is slippage.
It's probably more forgiving.
I know my wife blew out a tire @16k miles, but the tire dealer said a new one would still be within the tolerance.
3 years later, the same tires are still on there.
I did run it a pound or 2 lower that the other tires, just in case.
My daughter's Fusion is in one of the garage bays right now and we are going to check and set the tires pressures, if needed.
I even bought her and fiancé a new tire gauge, it's mostly for tread longevity.

Was that tire gauge an advanced stocking stuffer or was that an advanced Christmas gift?

jmonroe

driver100

houdini1 said:

qbrozen said:

houdini1 said:

I remember reading somewhere that the Suburu Symetrical awd is different from almost all other awd systems. All four wheels are engaged at all times but with the ability to send more power to any one wheel that is slipping and needs more power.

Most, if not all, others are normally fwd until more traction is needed, then some power is directed to the rear wheels.

The Suburu system does work better, but maybe the tires wear differently than other awd systems.

Definitely not all. AWD added to a RWD car typically winds up being RWD biased. The main reason why Subie is different is because they are designed to be AWD from the outset rather than a FWD or RWD platform with AWD as an option.

Yep, my LS460 AWD is rear wheel biased.

So are Mercedes RWD models.....45 to 55 ratio.
Models like FWD CLA are front wheel bias.

driver100

Quick note about Mike. He went home yesterday, needs a care worker 12 hours a day. Drove 25 miles in his car. Tired but seems upbeat. I will check in later in the week.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

Hey sneakers, are those Nokian snow tires? They look a lot like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R snow tires I bought for my '09 Genny in 2010. They were pretty good tires.

I bought dedicated rims for the rear tires and they still have some tread on them but they won't fit the '15 Genny.

I bet you never thought an innocent post like yours would stir up this much tire talk, did you?.

jmonroe

Maybe you could buy a new tire and don't fill it up with as much air, then it will have the same circumference as the older tires.

And, what happens if your tires get a little low in pressure once in awhile, does that ruin the transmission too?

I think you're getting a little carried away here with air pressure. I know that air pressure will change the circumference of a tire but in reality not enough to cause a problem. I also think that car manufactures are being too conservative about the differences in tire tread wear and its effect on transmissions.

I my case, I just decided because of the favorable adjustment being given by Firestone, that I didn't want to play around, if by chance, there would be a problem later.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

Hey sneakers, are those Nokian snow tires? They look a lot like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R snow tires I bought for my '09 Genny in 2010. They were pretty good tires.

I bought dedicated rims for the rear tires and they still have some tread on them but they won't fit the '15 Genny.

I bet you never thought an innocent post like yours would stir up this much tire talk, did you?.

jmonroe

Maybe you could buy a new tire and don't fill it up with as much air, then it will have the same circumference as the older tires.

And, what happens if your tires get a little low in pressure once in awhile, does that ruin the transmission too?

I think you're getting a little carried away here with air pressure. I know that air pressure will change the circumference of a tire but in reality not enough to cause a problem. I also think that car manufactures are being too conservative about the differences in tire tread wear and its effect on transmissions.

I my case, I just decided because of the favorable adjustment being given by Firestone, that I didn't want to play around, if by chance, there would be a problem later.

jmonroe

I would have done the same.....no use fooling around and you will have 4 new tires that should get you through another 4 years at least. Just like to give you a hard time....called PAYBACK!

jmonroe

@oldfarmer50

For some reason I could not post this reply to your post where you show that old Ford from your youth where you mention "chains". Below is a little story about "chains" back in the day:

Talk about chain slap, my departed middle Brother found out what happens when a chain brakes.

I was in the Navy at the time and he went out on a date when there was a lot of snow on the ground. My Mother didn't like the idea but my Father said he didn't think that would be a problem because they put chains on the car earlier that day and he was only going to a movie in our community. My Father told him that if a cross link broke, to stop and take off the chains. He didn't listen because he thought he could make it home before there would be any damage. WRONG. The next morning my Father goes out to the car with my Brother to remove the chain that broke so that he could replace the broken cross link from his canvas bag of spares and he hot LOTS of spares. That is when my Father noticed that the cross link broke damn near in the middle and the two ends cut through the inner fender in two places so my Father had to have metal patch-welded onto the inner fender. This was back in the day (early 60's) when cars were undercoated and that had to be re-done too.

After that event my Brother never did hear the end of what happened on that date.

jmonroe

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

PF_Flyer said:

Got the winter footwear on. Go ahead... snow... I triple dog dare ya!

Hey sneakers, are those Nokian snow tires? They look a lot like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R snow tires I bought for my '09 Genny in 2010. They were pretty good tires.

I bought dedicated rims for the rear tires and they still have some tread on them but they won't fit the '15 Genny.

I bet you never thought an innocent post like yours would stir up this much tire talk, did you?.

jmonroe

Maybe you could buy a new tire and don't fill it up with as much air, then it will have the same circumference as the older tires.

And, what happens if your tires get a little low in pressure once in awhile, does that ruin the transmission too?

I think you're getting a little carried away here with air pressure. I know that air pressure will change the circumference of a tire but in reality not enough to cause a problem. I also think that car manufactures are being too conservative about the differences in tire tread wear and its effect on transmissions.

I my case, I just decided because of the favorable adjustment being given by Firestone, that I didn't want to play around, if by chance, there would be a problem later.

jmonroe

I would have done the same.....no use fooling around and you will have 4 new tires that should get you through another 4 years at least. Just like to give you a hard time....called PAYBACK!

Oh, I knew what you were doing because nobody, even you, could be that lacking about technical stuff.

jmonroe

explorerx4

Back when I had my Expedition, we were hit by a wrong way driver, that knocked the left front suspension off.
The tires were at least half worn, but I was getting a new tire to replace the on that was knocked off.
I told the repair shop to put the spare on the same axle as the new tire.
Drove 400 miles home, then noticed one of the front tires was not the new one.
It tracked perfectly fine on the way home, so I was mystified how it drive so well with mismatched tires.
It turns out the that old tire had 5 more pounds of air in it than the new one on the same axle.

jmonroe

snakeweasel said:

Wow been away for a few days and see over 300 messages. Oh well I will get to them but first I want to wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving. Don't over eat by to much.

If you are going to jump into the action you'll have to bring your AWD/tire replacement knowledge if you want to really fit in with the technical wizards in here.

Hint: go study up on your geometry.

jmonroe

stever

driver100 said:

stever said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Would that be a Ford Focus hatch, stever, not an Escort hatch? And Kia goes for the jugular with that Caribbean Blue. Ratchet your price about $7,500 up with the package up, just ta obtain that nice blue color.

. So she and my wife ran over to get some groceries and I forgot all about asking her to drop the film off.

.

What is film and why do you drop it off? Is that some new invention?

This disposable is so old it predates disposable digital cams. It expired in March 2010, so hopefully I really don't need accident shots. One of these years maybe we'll be asking what gasoline is or even hear "granddaddy, did you and grandma really own your own car?".

sda

I hope everyone is having a safe and Happy Thanksgiving. We made a 7 hour trek to the Outerbank, Hateras, Waves, NC. It is gorgeous and a great change of pace.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Watching auctions this morning and I notice 3 types of cars:

Restorations-restored to look factory new but with original mechanicals. Matching numbers are all important.

Resto mods-car looks original but has modern or enhanced mechanicals. Some look factory while others are obviously modified.

Barn finds-looks like it was actually just pulled out of a barn. Faded paint, rust, ripped seats.

It's the last one I don't get. It seems these barn cars are bringing comparable prices and the buyers intend to drive them just as they are. What's up with that?

The Mecum auctions are not on cable up here so I will have to speculate. Resto-mods seem to be the current hot item but they have always left me cold. I never understood the attraction of ordering a bunch of stuff from a catalog and bolting it on. If you want a car that drives like a Corvette, maybe you just should have bought a Corvette. But I guess the owners see them as the descendants of the classic hot rods of the '50s and '60s that used Model A Fords and the like with later engines, etc.

"Barn finds" (I suspect few ever saw an actual barn) are a close second in my mind though. I get the principle, the same as with valuable antique furniture, you wouldn't want to refinish a lot of that stuff. But you wouldn't use it for its intended purpose either. That may apply to a one-off Ferrari or similar car but hardly a '62 Chevy. I cannot see driving these things. Hemmings Classic Car has a monthly article series titled Driveable Dreams that only drives me crazy. Dirty, faded, torn upholstery, body rust, jury-rigged mechanical and electrical systems... I do not see the appeal.

jmonroe

sda said:

I hope everyone is having a safe and Happy Thanksgiving. We made a 7 hour trek to the Outerbank, Hateras, Waves, NC. It is gorgeous and a great change of pace.

Were you invited there to cut down those weeds or to watch the sunset?

Have a nice time. I don't have views like that here in the Burgh.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

Too bad about that atomic bomb going off.

driver100

Looks nice....did you bring your Weedwacker?

To add to Mr S's comment.........reminds me of that old movie...On The Beach.

Actually, looks like a nice place to spend Thanksgiving.....enjoy.

ab348

I love that area. Damn shame about the periodic hurricanes.

berri

Looks nice. The "weeds" as someone called them and the small sand dunes are all part of the Outer Banks charm. Are you going hang gliding?

suydam

I love the Outer Banks. Have a wonderful vacation there.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

Watching auctions this morning and I notice 3 types of cars: Restorations-restored to look factory new but with original mechanicals. Matching numbers are all important. Resto mods-car looks original but has modern or enhanced mechanicals. Some look factory while others are obviously modified. Barn finds-looks like it was actually just pulled out of a barn. Faded paint, rust, ripped seats. It's the last one I don't get. It seems these barn cars are bringing comparable prices and the buyers intend to drive them just as they are. What's up with that?

The Mecum auctions are not on cable up here so I will have to speculate. Resto-mods seem to be the current hot item but they have always left me cold. I never understood the attraction of ordering a bunch of stuff from a catalog and bolting it on. If you want a car that drives like a Corvette, maybe you just should have bought a Corvette. But I guess the owners see them as the descendants of the classic hot rods of the '50s and '60s that used Model A Fords and the like with later engines, etc. "Barn finds" (I suspect few ever saw an actual barn) are a close second in my mind though. I get the principle, the same as with valuable antique furniture, you wouldn't want to refinish a lot of that stuff. But you wouldn't use it for its intended purpose either. That may apply to a one-off Ferrari or similar car but hardly a '62 Chevy. I cannot see driving these things. Hemmings Classic Car has a monthly article series titled Driveable Dreams that only drives me crazy. Dirty, faded, torn upholstery, body rust, jury-rigged mechanical and electrical systems... I do not see the appeal.

I am in the restomod camp. Definitely want one. The attraction to me is beautiful classic style with modern and reliable running gear. No reason why an old car should not take advantage of the technological advancements made since it first came off the assembly line. No different, really, than buying a 100-year-old house and adding insulation, central AC, modern appliances, etc.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly. People build resto-mods so that they can use their "classics" liberally without heart-stopping moments going around curves or braking in an emergency. Also the reliability goes up considerably.

There's also the new "heritage" movement, which I think came out of the "survivor class" category that many car shows have now adopted. Many people who like to show their cars were getting discouraged to enter because they cannot compete with "checkbook restorations"--so the Survivor Class was born for original/mostly original cars with a modest amount of patina on them (no beaters, though).

From that, people started building "heritage" cars, which are barn finds with faded paint, flaking chrome, etc, but the cars are completely modernized underneath (some even sport quite deluxe interiors). So you get to drive a $75,000 beater. Some paint shops now specialize in "patina"---they will take a paint job that looks too good and create some fade spots, rub-outs, a primer shot here and there.

Here again the heritage cars are shabby but not really awful.

oldfarmer50

OK brain teaser time.

Remember I helped my niece buy that $1000 Nissan Sentra beater? Well, there's trouble in paradise.

She says that while driving, if she stops at a light with the transmission in gear the car shakes. From how she describes it, it shakes quite noticeably. I had her start it and put it in all gears and got no shakes. I thought maybe it was just the normal vibration from a 4 cyl. But no, she says it's quite pronounced. No dash lights showing although she said the CEL came on once for a few seconds and the went off. Hasn't come on again.

Any thoughts on what would cause a vibration only at idle in gear? Only thing I can think of is a cylinder misfire but that would be worse under load not at low rpm.

Oh yeah, and someone rear ended her on the way to work. Damage almost equal to what she paid for the car. Vibration predates the accident.

imidazol97

jmonroe said:

Were you invited there to cut down those weeds or to watch the sunset?

Isn't it illegal to damage the Uniola paniculata, sea oats, because it's helping hold the
sand in place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniola_paniculata

explorerx4

We love Hatteras, have been vacationing there ever summer for the last 10 years.
It's a pain to get there, but we love the location and warm water.

nyccarguy

@sda - beautiful! Summer vacation spots are supposedly so peaceful and quiet during the off season.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

OK brain teaser time.

Remember I helped my niece buy that $1000 Nissan Sentra beater? Well, there's trouble in paradise.

She says that while driving, if she stops at a light with the transmission in gear the car shakes. From how she describes it, it shakes quite noticeably. I had her start it and put it in all gears and got no shakes. I thought maybe it was just the normal vibration from a 4 cyl. But no, she says it's quite pronounced. No dash lights showing although she said the CEL came on once for a few seconds and the went off. Hasn't come on again.

Any thoughts on what would cause a vibration only at idle in gear? Only thing I can think of is a cylinder misfire but that would be worse under load not at low rpm.

Oh yeah, and someone rear ended her on the way to work. Damage almost equal to what she paid for the car. Vibration predates the accident.

Possibly a vacuum leak, or an EGR problem. Needs a scan.

ab348

Is the Sentra an automatic transmission? Maybe a lockup torque converter solenoid gone bad?

driver100

Oldfarmer....I am feeling for you man. You may feel a bit responsible, but if a $1000 car gave you trouble free driving we would all buy one. I am not of much help technically, but if she decides to trade it in on a CPO Mercedes, I'll be glad to help.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK brain teaser time.

Remember I helped my niece buy that $1000 Nissan Sentra beater? Well, there's trouble in paradise.

She says that while driving, if she stops at a light with the transmission in gear the car shakes. From how she describes it, it shakes quite noticeably. I had her start it and put it in all gears and got no shakes. I thought maybe it was just the normal vibration from a 4 cyl. But no, she says it's quite pronounced. No dash lights showing although she said the CEL came on once for a few seconds and the went off. Hasn't come on again.

Any thoughts on what would cause a vibration only at idle in gear? Only thing I can think of is a cylinder misfire but that would be worse under load not at low rpm.

Oh yeah, and someone rear ended her on the way to work. Damage almost equal to what she paid for the car. Vibration predates the accident.

Possibly a vacuum leak, or an EGR problem. Needs a scan.

Hmmmm never considered that. I was thinking bad bad plug wire since this started after some recent wet weather. Definitely needs a scan to see if the CEL set a code.

Thanks.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Is the Sentra an automatic transmission? Maybe a lockup torque converter solenoid gone bad?

Gee I hope not. It shifted perfect when we test drove it. Funny, she couldn't make it do it yesterday so it seem to be an intermittent problem. Hate to think she might get into one of those "can not duplicate" deals.

Thanks

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Oldfarmer....I am feeling for you man. You may feel a bit responsible, but if a $1000 car gave you trouble free driving we would all buy one. I am not of much help technically, but if she decides to trade it in on a CPO Mercedes, I'll be glad to help.

Yeah I'm not a lot of help either on modern engines. I know typical problems on domestic cars but standing in the rain with a turkey leg in my hand looking at a Japanese motor not so much.

Are you saying you'll trade her car for your MB? Wow, you ARE a nice guy.

Thanks

imidazol97

OK brain teaser time.
Hmmmm never considered that. I was thinking bad bad plug wire since this started after some recent wet weather. Definitely needs a scan to see if the CEL set a code.

I'd get a code read first. Do big box stores in your area read codes for you?
What you're hoping for is a P030X code that says one particular cylinder experienced
a misfire.

This is why it's worth buying a cheap code reader, even if you don't want to invest in
a slightly more expensive scanner that can give even more data.

My hope is that a bottle of Chevron Fuel System Cleaner might clear it up if it
is some water/goop in fuel affecting an injector. Does she buy gas at a reputable station?
My leSabre last occasionally had a slight miss and treatment with Techron FSCleaner
or another cleaner helped.

Alway start with the simplest explanation first.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

How can people in this impoverished island of Dominica afford these unconscionable fuel prices? $10.87 a gallon...with Chavez dead, no more concessionary prices.
http://sundominica.com/articles/gas-prices-go-up-3955/

That's East Caribbean dollars, it works out to be around $4.00 in good old Yankee Greenbacks.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

jmonroe said:

graphicguy said:

Does this count as a punch?



https://www.flickr.com/photos/97396424@N08/shares/9NP6Xi

Yeah, that'll get you a punch alright, like getting your lights punched out.

jmonroe

?????????

I think he means that on a bicycle, sometimes a car will "a-door" you.

Bicyclist call that getting a door prize.

snakeweasel

stever said:

More blue votes though.

But I've had a red car and would rather have a blue one next.

We are talking cars, right?

Good, just checking.

Yes there were more blue votes but you cannot go by that. The strategy of a Presidential election is to win the Electoral college. This means that you ignore the states that you cannot win, campaign lightly in states where you are sure to win and campaign heavily in battleground states. This means that both parties leave votes on the table by not pursuing votes in states that they would not win and in states where they would win easily.

This means that in every election the results of the popular vote would have changed somewhat if it was run going after the popular vote. Which elections it would have changed who won the popular vote is all academic.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK brain teaser time.

Remember I helped my niece buy that $1000 Nissan Sentra beater? Well, there's trouble in paradise.

She says that while driving, if she stops at a light with the transmission in gear the car shakes. From how she describes it, it shakes quite noticeably. I had her start it and put it in all gears and got no shakes. I thought maybe it was just the normal vibration from a 4 cyl. But no, she says it's quite pronounced. No dash lights showing although she said the CEL came on once for a few seconds and the went off. Hasn't come on again.

Any thoughts on what would cause a vibration only at idle in gear? Only thing I can think of is a cylinder misfire but that would be worse under load not at low rpm.

Oh yeah, and someone rear ended her on the way to work. Damage almost equal to what she paid for the car. Vibration predates the accident.

Possibly a vacuum leak, or an EGR problem. Needs a scan.

Hmmmm never considered that. I was thinking bad bad plug wire since this started after some recent wet weather. Definitely needs a scan to see if the CEL set a code.

Thanks.

I'd lean towards the EGR valve like @Mr_Shiftright said but it could be a transmission solenoid valve too like @ab348 said.

The first time I experienced a bad EGR valve was on a '79 Mercury Marquis that my Father had. On that car you could put your fingers on the diaphragm (care taken here because it is hot) and move it in and out. I found that it was sticking, so I removed it and sprayed Gumout on the actuating rod and it never happened again. I had a few friends who also tried this trick years ago on various cars and it worked for them too. However, I don't have any experience with the newer EGR valves.

I think you can impress your niece by giving it a try. If that fails get some tips from @driver100 about how to pay 200 bucks too much for a CPO Benz.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

berri said:

Personally, I don't think I could own an expensive car. Parking lot scratches and knicks on it would bug me, let alone garbage truck in the trunk!

It is just money. What is better, having the money sitting in the bank or actually getting some use and fun out of it?

Ye it's just money but if you don't spend it on an expensive car you could spend it on other things you like. Spending another $15K to get the BMW over a Chevy means that there is $15K less I can spend on other activities I enjoy. It' all personal preference.