Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

berri

So dealers are routinely throwing in $500 doc fees for basically nothing, and then they get upset about buyers jerking them???

driver100

explorerx4 said:

New 2014 for sale!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-dealer-offering-brand-new-2014-chevy-camaro-z-28-at-dollar25000-discount/ar-AAlby8F?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=DELLDHP

Seemed to be overpriced at $75,000. It is 3 years old so unless it is a real classic which it might be...500 made, it normally would be worth $35 to $40k. Interesting, but, it ain't worth $50k to me.

driver100

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

Like I said before, it didn't bother me that this exec wanted that extra $120. It must have been doable or your dealership wouldn't have done it. So, what is wrong with what he did? IMO, being petty would be your dealership saying NO, if in fact, they could have said YES. Why is it OK to overcharge anyone if you don't have to? The car biz created this sort of attitude about how they do business so don't blame buyers when they think they can get a better price.

It never hurts to ask.

jmonroe

Nah, there comes a point when you have to just give in. Trying to get the $120 worth of freebies is a power trip...showing he can get something too because he knows he will get away with it. Argue about the $700 DOC fee, ask for 5% off, but don't nickel and dime over $120.

We raced to the dealership and got the paperwork with the salesman done in 30 minutes. Then waited 2 hours for the F&I guy who was tied up with customers before us. After an hour and a quarter our salesman was feeling bad, he said go choose a gift from the gift shop on me. We chose a chrome license plate holder because of the Pink ones they put on their cars. He offered to pay which was really nice, but we paid for it...probably a lot more than they would be at a car store......but, why should our sales guy take a loss. It's just being decent, and it makes you feel better as a person.

Nothing morally wrong with bargaining every last dollar, it is the toll it takes on your own mind.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

One of our sales advisors is going through an ordeal with a customer. I can't disclose many details except that it's an exec who makes over $3,000,000 per year and he's wanting a $100 discount on some replacement tires and also wants another $20 knocked off a mobility kit(tire inflator and goop). All for a vehicle with an MSRP north of $80,000...

I don't have a problem with what this customer is TRYING to do. How many times have we heard, "if you don't ask, you don't get". His income should have nothing to do with what he THINKS he can negotiate. Maybe he has the income he does because he knows how to save money.

Just curious, but how does anyone at your store know what his income is. If he told someone, then he isn't as sharp as he should be.

jmonroe

He's the CEO of a major corporation. I can't say more.

I guess that is the down side of being in the public.

I never liked the idea of any one asking me my salary when I financed something like cars and even houses. When I was asked for loan purposes, I always told them something less. Usually 20 to 30 K a year less. I was never even close to buying what my income said I COULD buy, so, something less should not need as much income. It always worked for me.

I have an interesting story about this:

I knew my companies policy when a lender wanted to verify income. They never gave out that info without a consent form from the employee but they would verify employment history without a consent form. When I was buying my second house the woman I knew in payroll called one day and ask if she could provide my income and wanted me to sign a form to relinquish that info. I asked her to get back to the lender and ask what income was needed for the loan I wanted. She said, "hang on I'll set up a three way call so you can hear what they want". The guy asked how much I made and I said, "how much is required for the loan". The answer was a minimum of $$$$$. I then said to the woman in payroll, "can you verify for this gentleman that I meet the minimum". She did and he hung up happy. Then she sent a form for my signature showing the minimum amount he wanted to see (actually, we bumped it up a few grand) and sent it to the lender.

There are too many places that personal info can go to, so I don't provide the real information. Only what they NEED to know.

jmonroe

I thought I was the only one paranoid enough to do that.

driver100

houdini1 said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

I read somewhere that most, if not all, CEO's of major corps. are psychopaths. Very hard people to understand and deal with, to say the least.

I lost a very large national acct. once when one of our acct. assistants was in tears talking to this guy over some minor detail. A regular pattern for this guy. He demanded to speak to me, so I took the call and listened to him for a short while, then told him that no one in our office was going to take his abuse any more and suggested that maybe it was time for a change. He started screaming and I hung up on him. We did lose the acct. but my big boss backed me up. We were also a large national company, so his business had very little impact on our bottom line. Overall, a very satisfying experience.

I have read a lot about psychopaths because I had to deal with one. They make up about 4 to 6% of the population. They are ruthless, don't care about others one bit, some psychopaths love to destroy other people. But, they can make excellent business people in some situations that call for a ruthless person....like to ax 300 jobs or something. Politicians are usually psychopaths to some degree, they have a craving for power, and values mean very little...it is just try to get what you want any way you can.

If you are dealing with one it is best to try and steer clear, very hard to win if you go against one.....they have no sympathy and no empathy, and they would love to destroy you.

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

New 2014 for sale!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-dealer-offering-brand-new-2014-chevy-camaro-z-28-at-dollar25000-discount/ar-AAlby8F?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=DELLDHP

Seemed to be overpriced at $75,000. It is 3 years old so unless it is a real classic which it might be...500 made, it normally would be worth $35 to $40k. Interesting, but, it ain't worth $50k to me.

Yeah, 35K-$40K. And if you don't need that silly amount of HP, you can buy a 2014 SS for about half that asking price. You know a Hellcat is going to slap you on the street anyway.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

New 2014 for sale!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-dealer-offering-brand-new-2014-chevy-camaro-z-28-at-dollar25000-discount/ar-AAlby8F?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=DELLDHP

Can we assume that all that milage was from doing full throtle burn outs for the press?

stever

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

Like I said before, it didn't bother me that this exec wanted that extra $120. It must have been doable or your dealership wouldn't have done it. So, what is wrong with what he did? IMO, being petty would be your dealership saying NO, if in fact, they could have said YES. Why is it OK to overcharge anyone if you don't have to? The car biz created this sort of attitude about how they do business so don't blame buyers when they think they can get a better price.

It never hurts to ask.

jmonroe

We raced to the dealership and got the paperwork with the salesman done in 30 minutes. Then waited 2 hours for the F&I guy who was tied up with customers before us.

Why don't more people just get the salesperson to deliver the car to them?

qbrozen

driver100 said:

New 2014 for sale! http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-dealer-offering-brand-new-2014-chevy-camaro-z-28-at-dollar25000-discount/ar-AAlby8F?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=DELLDHP

Seemed to be overpriced at $75,000. It is 3 years old so unless it is a real classic which it might be...500 made, it normally would be worth $35 to $40k. Interesting, but, it ain't worth $50k to me.

Well, they don't come up at auction often, but the most recent low-mileage examples (1k-2k) were at around $48k.

Michaell

stever said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

Like I said before, it didn't bother me that this exec wanted that extra $120. It must have been doable or your dealership wouldn't have done it. So, what is wrong with what he did? IMO, being petty would be your dealership saying NO, if in fact, they could have said YES. Why is it OK to overcharge anyone if you don't have to? The car biz created this sort of attitude about how they do business so don't blame buyers when they think they can get a better price.

It never hurts to ask.

jmonroe

We raced to the dealership and got the paperwork with the salesman done in 30 minutes. Then waited 2 hours for the F&I guy who was tied up with customers before us.

Why don't more people just get the salesperson to deliver the car to them?

My wife had that happen when she bought her Tempo back in the 80's. Of course, this was in Cheyenne, where it only takes about 15 minutes from one side of town to the other. Dealer brought the car and paperwork to her house.

venture

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

fintail said:

You know it goes both ways, right?

Well of course. CA wouldn't be trying to take their ball and go home if they LIKED the other kids. 

Well of course they hate us. I mean, if you were the high school kid who was not only handsome but rushed 100 yards every game, had a 4.0 grade point average and whose dad bought him a new Mustang GT convertible for graduation, you'd hate him, too right?

But California is more like that hipster know it all that thinks he is better than you because he buys his $7.50 cup of coffee at some place you can't pronounce.

Well there's that, but California also delivers. It leads the nation in many fields of endeavor---INCLUDING FOOTBALL & BASKETBALL at the moment, I might add.

Roll Tide.

fintail

But it's in crazyland - how many months did it spend underwater? Probably full of Zika and bath salts now

explorerx4 said:

New 2014 for sale!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-dealer-offering-brand-new-2014-chevy-camaro-z-28-at-dollar25000-discount/ar-AAlby8F?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=DELLDHP

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

New 2014 for sale!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-dealer-offering-brand-new-2014-chevy-camaro-z-28-at-dollar25000-discount/ar-AAlby8F?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=DELLDHP

Seemed to be overpriced at $75,000. It is 3 years old so unless it is a real classic which it might be...500 made, it normally would be worth $35 to $40k. Interesting, but, it ain't worth $50k to me.

Well, they don't come up at auction often, but the most recent low-mileage examples (1k-2k) were at around $48k.

I've seen them cheaper than that in CA, but with maybe 5K-10K miles.

stickguy

isn't this one of those specialty cars, like a Ferrari, where miles kill value in dog years?

roadburner

I helped deliver a car to a customer's home today; she had paid cash for a $70k vehicle. She had a house protected with electric gates that looked like they belonged on a military installation. The interior of the house was a wreck- she was a borderline hoarder. Really loopy. The salesman and I were glad to get the paperwork done and get out of there.

Mr_Shiftright

Gee I dunno...it is a Chevy after all. With the Ferrari, the miles really do matter. Ferraris are not high mileage cars. But I could see a Camaro like this busting 150K with proper care.

High HP cars will always be worth some money but I don't see it achieving its original MSRP for a long, long time....if ever.

dino001

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

I read somewhere that most, if not all, CEO's of major corps. are psychopaths. Very hard people to understand and deal with, to say the least.

I lost a very large national acct. once when one of our acct. assistants was in tears talking to this guy over some minor detail. A regular pattern for this guy. He demanded to speak to me, so I took the call and listened to him for a short while, then told him that no one in our office was going to take his abuse any more and suggested that maybe it was time for a change. He started screaming and I hung up on him. We did lose the acct. but my big boss backed me up. We were also a large national company, so his business had very little impact on our bottom line. Overall, a very satisfying experience.

I have read a lot about psychopaths because I had to deal with one. They make up about 4 to 6% of the population. They are ruthless, don't care about others one bit, some psychopaths love to destroy other people. But, they can make excellent business people in some situations that call for a ruthless person....like to ax 300 jobs or something. Politicians are usually psychopaths to some degree, they have a craving for power, and values mean very little...it is just try to get what you want any way you can.

If you are dealing with one it is best to try and steer clear, very hard to win if you go against one.....they have no sympathy and no empathy, and they would love to destroy you.

I think you're describing sociopaths. The difference is subtle - sociopaths have ability to turn things on or off at will (essentially have full control and understanding of morals, they simply don't care), which makes them even worse and much more skilled in manipulation. Psychopaths don't have control, once they start their rage.

dino001

berri said:

So dealers are routinely throwing in $500 doc fees for basically nothing, and then they get upset about buyers jerking them???

It's pushing and sometimes crossing $1000 here. Honyota dealers are absolute worst offenders, but others are gladly keeping up with the pace.

berri

The thing you probably need to be concerned about is when the dealer copies your drivers license for your test drive and then proceeds to run a credit check. If enough dealers do that while you are shopping it can impact your credit rating status temporarily. Want to make sure they are not going to do that before you hand it over.

berri

Years ago I remember, I think it was Jimmy Bryant in Orlando, who had cars loaded with dealer packs, fees, etc. I seriously could fly up north, drive the car back and still be quite a bit of money ahead. But the dealerships seemed to be very successful down there.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

Like I said before, it didn't bother me that this exec wanted that extra $120. It must have been doable or your dealership wouldn't have done it. So, what is wrong with what he did? IMO, being petty would be your dealership saying NO, if in fact, they could have said YES. Why is it OK to overcharge anyone if you don't have to? The car biz created this sort of attitude about how they do business so don't blame buyers when they think they can get a better price.

It never hurts to ask.

jmonroe

Nah, there comes a point when you have to just give in. Trying to get the $120 worth of freebies is a power trip...showing he can get something too because he knows he will get away with it. Argue about the $700 DOC fee, ask for 5% off, but don't nickel and dime over $120.

We raced to the dealership and got the paperwork with the salesman done in 30 minutes. Then waited 2 hours for the F&I guy who was tied up with customers before us. After an hour and a quarter our salesman was feeling bad, he said go choose a gift from the gift shop on me. We chose a chrome license plate holder because of the Pink ones they put on their cars. He offered to pay which was really nice, but we paid for it...probably a lot more than they would be at a car store......but, why should our sales guy take a loss. It's just being decent, and it makes you feel better as a person.

Nothing morally wrong with bargaining every last dollar, it is the toll it takes on your own mind.

It never bothered my "mind" to ask for something more when I knew I'd be screwed even worse if I didn't ask. Dealers know how to sell cars, they do it every day. Us buyers, regardless of how many times we buy a car, are the ones that are trying to figure out how to do it. So when we latch onto something we feel is doable, why shouldn't we dig in. I'm sure dealers expect it and enjoy the process.

FWIW, I'd have done the same as you about paying for that license plate frame. After all, it wasn't the salesman's fault that the F&I office was backed up but it was a very nice gesture.

jmonroe

driver100

stever said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

Like I said before, it didn't bother me that this exec wanted that extra $120. It must have been doable or your dealership wouldn't have done it. So, what is wrong with what he did? IMO, being petty would be your dealership saying NO, if in fact, they could have said YES. Why is it OK to overcharge anyone if you don't have to? The car biz created this sort of attitude about how they do business so don't blame buyers when they think they can get a better price.

It never hurts to ask.

jmonroe

We raced to the dealership and got the paperwork with the salesman done in 30 minutes. Then waited 2 hours for the F&I guy who was tied up with customers before us.

Why don't more people just get the salesperson to deliver the car to them?

How will they try to sell you mop n glo in your own home?

Seriously, there is computer license records to sign and paperwork, My wife and I probably signed about 20 pages each, and most of those were signed on a tablet. F&I guy said there are more papers to sign to buy a car in Florida than there are to buy a house. A lot of the papers signed are waiving rights to get a lawyer if there is a disagreement with the dealer,.....someone has to put the plates on the new car.....and take them off the old car (how do they drive it back without plates).

stever

You can do all the house paperwork online here except for the final signature at closing and you could probably get that waived. Fifteen minutes tops. I've sent title companies copies of driver's licenses and passports. Tablets work fine with wifi or a cell plan.

The salesperson or porter can swap plates. And every dealer plate I've seen attaches with clips or magnets. Lots of times the real plates get mailed to you and the dealer prints out a temp tag to tape to your rear window.

If you initiate the sale, there's no issue about a door to door cooling off period. Shouldn't be a big deal imo.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

roadburner said:

From my point of view, I could understand the guy wanting to save $1000, but trying for that last $120(which he wound up getting, BTW) just seems petty. My center doesn't pad the sticker with ADM charges or mop & glo- and most of our cars are advertised online for $2k to $5k under MSRP. The sales staff is professional and anything but pushy or high pressure.
We had another celebrity couple who argued over $20/month on a 24 month lease. Again, extremely wealthy(and obnoxious).

I read somewhere that most, if not all, CEO's of major corps. are psychopaths. Very hard people to understand and deal with, to say the least.

I lost a very large national acct. once when one of our acct. assistants was in tears talking to this guy over some minor detail. A regular pattern for this guy. He demanded to speak to me, so I took the call and listened to him for a short while, then told him that no one in our office was going to take his abuse any more and suggested that maybe it was time for a change. He started screaming and I hung up on him. We did lose the acct. but my big boss backed me up. We were also a large national company, so his business had very little impact on our bottom line. Overall, a very satisfying experience.

I have read a lot about psychopaths because I had to deal with one. They make up about 4 to 6% of the population. They are ruthless, don't care about others one bit, some psychopaths love to destroy other people. But, they can make excellent business people in some situations that call for a ruthless person....like to ax 300 jobs or something. Politicians are usually psychopaths to some degree, they have a craving for power, and values mean very little...it is just try to get what you want any way you can.

If you are dealing with one it is best to try and steer clear, very hard to win if you go against one.....they have no sympathy and no empathy, and they would love to destroy you.

I think you're describing sociopaths. The difference is subtle - sociopaths have ability to turn things on or off at will (essentially have full control and understanding of morals, they simply don't care), which makes them even worse and much more skilled in manipulation. Psychopaths don't have control, once they start their rage.

The definitions keep changing, in fact they are so blurred now they are referred to as having a personality disorder. The last one I read said psychopaths could have a family and act normal on the outside, and sociopaths couldn't. This one agrees more with you and says:

This means that while psychopathy and sociopathy both likely involve impaired cognitive function, the two differ in which circuits are affected. Psychopaths are fearless; sociopaths aren’t. Psychopaths don’t have a sense of right and wrong; sociopaths do. But both are equally capable of ruining lives and destroying relationships — not that they care.

Difference Between Sociopath and Psychopath

I did like this part that explained a lot:

Sociopathic behavior is manifested as conniving and deceitful, despite an outward appearance of trustworthiness or sincerity. Sociopaths are often pathological liars. They are manipulative and lack the ability to judge the morality of a situation, but not because they lack a moral compass; rather, their existing moral compass is greatly (yet not always dangerously) skewed.

jmonroe

berri said:

The thing you probably need to be concerned about is when the dealer copies your drivers license for your test drive and then proceeds to run a credit check. If enough dealers do that while you are shopping it can impact your credit rating status temporarily. Want to make sure they are not going to do that before you hand it over.

How would you know if they ran a credit check. Would you believe them if they said NO ?

That's another reason why I don't jump around from dealer to dealer. With the internet, you can nail down a price pretty easily. Even with out of state dealers like I have done for my last 3 car purchases. Maybe I'm not as picky as some people who test drive a car and want to put it through racetrack type paces. I won't be driving it like that so why put it through those conditions ?

I have yet to be turned off of a car due to how it performed during a test ride.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Montreal is a city that gets a lot of snow, so you'd think they know how to handle it, right? Think again:

https://youtu.be/0BhhsEuYXZQ

Snow is indeed, evil. Fun to watch though.

Why is Paul Simons "Slip Slidin Away" playing in my head when I watch that?

dino001

driver100 said:

The definitions keep changing, in fact they are so blurred now they are referred to as having a personality disorder. The last one I read said psychopaths could have a family and act normal on the outside, and sociopaths couldn't. This one agrees more with you and says:

This means that while psychopathy and sociopathy both likely involve impaired cognitive function, the two differ in which circuits are affected. Psychopaths are fearless; sociopaths aren’t. Psychopaths don’t have a sense of right and wrong; sociopaths do. But both are equally capable of ruining lives and destroying relationships — not that they care.

Difference Between Sociopath and Psychopath

I did like this part that explained a lot:

Sociopathic behavior is manifested as conniving and deceitful, despite an outward appearance of trustworthiness or sincerity. Sociopaths are often pathological liars. They are manipulative and lack the ability to judge the morality of a situation, but not because they lack a moral compass; rather, their existing moral compass is greatly (yet not always dangerously) skewed.

My favorite line from BBC series Sherlock is when questioned Holmes (whether he was a psychopath) answers "I'm a highly functioning sociopath".

graphicguy

I have a theory about the tactics used when buying a new car, at least in the relatively recent past.

When credit was easy gettin', dealerships had all sorts coming in buying payments...some qualified, probably a lot that weren't. Easy solution....just extend the term to hit the payment....36 months, 48 months, 60 months....I'm seeing 72 months these days. That made it easy to "pack" the deal..."mop & glo"? Sure! Extended warranties? Why not!

Now, with all these informational sources regarding pricing, available right at the dealership's desk, on your smart phone, little tough to "pack" a deal.

Regarding Mr CEO, I think everyone here makes a good point about his desire for control, for power. His antics at the dealership is just another venue where he can show it. The $120 is irrelevant in this situation.

While I consider myself a fairly laid back guy and let most things roll off my back, there was a guy a few years ago insisting on schooling me on how to deal on a car. He was pretty insulting, but it's an internet forum. So, no sweat.

Anyway, I spouted my theory...which was...do your research. Find out what the market is in your area on the car you want. Check Edmunds, True Car, etc. Decide on the offer you want to make. Add in all the license, taxes, etc to add to the price of the car. Roll into the dealership and make your offer. Dealer either accepts it or rejects it.

This other person said the only way to get the best price was to go from dealer to dealer and grind them. Waste of time to me. You may save another $100 or two on the price of your car, but the dealer more than makes it up on the back end with doc fees, a 'lil for this, a 'lil for that, etc. Plus, he just wasted a lot of time in doing so.

Then, someone else chimed in with the same "negotiation" tactics, only he wanted to email 20 dealers for their best price. That kind of reminded me of the story someone in here told me a long time ago talking about the guy who walks into a dealership loudly asking "who wants to sell me a car?".

Emailing every dealer in a 3 state area still doesn't account for the fees and add-ons in a deal.

Anyway, I finally let the "expert" car buyers argue with themselves and I quietly backed away.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Then, someone else chimed in with the same "negotiation" tactics, only he wanted to email 20 dealers for their best price.

If I emailed 20 dealers in this area for most brands of cars, how many responses with an actual price embedded would I receive? And likely without the pack of the doc fees shown?

1?

sda

The best car buying experience that I've had is when the salesman delivered the car and finalized the paperwork at our house. He then drove the trade in back to their store. My wife and daughter especially appreciated that as they didn't have to spend time at the dealership as the F&I piece was completed. I wish more dealers would do that.

fintail

72 months? I've seen many ads, used cars, for 84 months. No kidding. I suppose it is a combination of a little instant gratification and maybe a larger dose of how incomes haven't kept pace.

The idea of grinding for 6 hours to save $100 is amusing. It might be a better use of energy to just get a part-time job

sda

I wince at long term financing beyond 48 months but can understand financing to 60 months as most new cars have powertrain or bumper to bumper warranties that cover that time frame. Anything beyond, yikes. Certainly if financed that long make sure to get GAP insurance. I wonder what percentage of buyers actually keep their cars 60-84 months and actually pay them off.

Mr_Shiftright

At 80 months, on a $40K car with 10% down, 4.5% interest and 8% sales tax, you will have paid about $5800 in interest. (gasp!)

stickguy

Bette not look at a mortgage statement if that bothers you.

sda

Is it just me or does the new Impreza look similar to a Buick up front? I like it.

http://www.consumerreports.org/content/dam/cro/news_articles/cars/CR-Cars-Inline-2017-Subaru-Impreza-Hatch-ATC-f-11-16.jpg

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

Bette not look at a mortgage statement if that bothers you.

yeah, but chances are your house won't be worth 65% less.

nyccarguy

I took out a 60 month loan on our TSX in 2009 (kept it for 1/2 the loan then traded in)
I took out a 60 month loan on our Pilot in 2011 @ 2.9%. Paid it off in May.
I took out a 72 month loan on our Legacy in 2014 @ 2.9%. I've been paying extra towards the principle. I plan to have the car paid off in approximately 4 years.

I wouldn't hesitate to take out a 60 - 72 month loan again on the right car that I know will last and hold its value.

Mr_Shiftright

Did you include a trade or down payment on these deals?

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

I took out a 60 month loan on our TSX in 2009 (kept it for 1/2 the loan then traded in)
I took out a 60 month loan on our Pilot in 2011 @ 2.9%. Paid it off in May.
I took out a 72 month loan on our Legacy in 2014 @ 2.9%. I've been paying extra towards the principle. I plan to have the car paid off in approximately 4 years.

I wouldn't hesitate to take out a 60 - 72 month loan again on the right car that I know will last and hold its value.

I take out 60 month loans and pay them off early as well. Right now I'm paying around double the monthly payment every month on a 2.9% loan.

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Did you include a trade or down payment on these deals?

When I bought the Acura, I put down the $3,500 cash for clunkers credit. Sign & Drive for the Pilot & the Legacy.

stickguy

My first 60 was on the RDX. Also the first one that I won't have paid off years early. Can thank college tuition for that.

Son is going 60 on his pending Audi purchase, with about 20% down. Plus Audi picks up first payment.

28firefighter

I took out .9% financing for 60 months on the GTI because there was no reason not to. But I put half down and I'm actually intending to pay it off as soon as the TDI return happens to free up some monthly cash flow before baby arrives.

henryn

I have never financed for more than 48 months. If I were offered zero percent, or 0.9% for 60 months, I very well might take that. My credit union is at 1.59% for up to 60 months, with 20% down. Even so, I only financed this last new vehicle (2015 F150) for 24 months.

After all, I only owed about $13,000, how long do you need to pay off that?

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, I'd do it like you.

qbrozen

I usually take a long term when the rate is right. Both the caddy and T&C were 1.9% for 72 mos, I believe. That way, I can pay more but I have the flexibility to pay less should the need arise.

stickguy

Audi us at 2.9 now. Best bank dealer could do this month was 2.48 or so, but doing math, the $600 AFS bonus up front made total cost lower, going to term. I expect him to pay off 1-2 years early.

henryn

Okay, I’ve got a question. I just did a google search, and did not find any conclusive answers.

A lady I work with has an (almost) new Lexus SUV, maybe 4 or 5 months old. I don’t recall the exact model, but it’s one of the smaller ones, and she is leasing, not buying. About a week ago, she was involved in a fairly minor fender bender. Damage to the right front (passenger) side. Fender, and the hood bent slightly (judging from a picture she showed me).

She dropped the car at the body shop, and the guy there (appraiser?) tells her they won’t replace the hood, they will repair it, which is fine. But he tells her that if they replace the hood, then the value of the car will be diminished because they can tell “by the numbers” that the car has been repaired.

Now I think the guy was playing her, blowing smoke up ____, just because she was a woman and looked gullible. I do know from watching crime shows that more expensive automobiles have the VIN number in certain hidden locations underneath. But I really doubt that the VIN number is on the hood.

Anyone know?

I did tell my friend that the diminished value (one way or the other) will not affect her, as she is leasing and has no plans to purchase at the end of the lease.

stickguy

I think it is on all panels, so likely the hood too. But, as you note, it is a lease so does not matter.

Value still will diminish for the paintwork though.

Mr_Shiftright

She's fine since it's a lease but the repairs have to be done to an acceptable standard.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

Then, someone else chimed in with the same "negotiation" tactics, only he wanted to email 20 dealers for their best price.

If I emailed 20 dealers in this area for most brands of cars, how many responses with an actual price embedded would I receive? And likely without the pack of the doc fees shown?

1?

That's the point. Even if you did get and responses past "come in and we'll beat any price", you're still faced with going to the dealership and watching your "email deal" baloon once you're sitting in the F&I chair.

Then you get that "low ball" email that you get excited about, until you get to the dealership and find out that the car you wanted a deal on was "just sold".

Past the email otr phone inquiries about in stock models, setting up test drives, making appointments, etc, you're going to have to go to the dealership to consumate a deal.

I think it was isellhondas(x) that said he would quote undoable crazy prices on email and phone inquiries just to frustrate the competition trying to match the unrealistic deal.