Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner

I've been working at the dealer for almost eight months so I thought I'd compile my Top Ten List of new BMWs that I have driven...

1. M2
2. M3/4 Competition Package
3. M240i
4. 440i Gran Coupe M Sport w/ M Performance Power and Sound
5. X1 M Sport
6. X4 M40i
7. 540i M Sport(G30)
8. i3
9. 750i M Sport
10. 330e M Sport

In other news, our local 1/8 mile drag strip opens next month, so the M235i will make its debut soon. I'm hoping it will post time in the mid eight second range.

Michaell

uplanderguy said:

I'd hope that's the 'old' Impala, or Impala 'Limited' which they built after the new one--which CR said tested higher than anything they'd ever tested besides a Tesla, when it came out.

Hard to believe the current Impala would have lower residuals than, say, a Taurus.

2017 residuals for 36 months, 15,000 miles per year:

Taurus Limited FWD - 43%
Impala LTZ - 53%

stickguy

man, that Infiniti is nice looking. at that big discount, I wonder what that would lease out at?

Yet one more thing to look at next christmas time!

Michaell

@graphicguy - nice choice! I was at the local Infiniti dealer yesterday, the styling of their models seems to be all over the map. I like the Q50, but not the Q60. Looked closely at the QX30 (Infiniti GLA clone). Small, both inside and out. Daughter has expressed some interest in it, down the road.

@abacomike - my best friend has an '04 G35. Blue over tan. Bought a couple years ago with only 60,000 miles on the clock. Fast and comfortable.

@fintail - had two of those era Accords. First was a '92 Accord LX, blue over blue. Pretty well loaded for the time, and we added the optional CD player (!). Was a "one only at this price" deal. After the first wife and I split, I moved to Denver and got a '93 DX. Burgundy over grey, stick shift, no A/C, right side mirror was an option. Drove it for 5+ years and put less than 60,000 miles on it. The only real problem I had with it was the left rear window didn't want to retract - even though it was not P/W.

@stickguy - Q50 3.0T Premium AWD lease numbers are .00003 and 48% for 36/15 or 39/15. So, a great MF but a lousy residual. But, a big discount from sticker, even for leasing.

28firefighter

I've seen Q50 3.0Ts on another board with MSRP around $45k for 0 down and $325/month plus tax. Lot of car for the money. 

stickguy

yeah, that would work for me FF. Hard to pass that up.

nyccarguy

@graphicguy - I'm glad you went back to test drive the Q50.  So it was everything you liked about the Q50 you drove last week and nothing you didn't.  Very difficult to argue with that car for $10K off sticker.  Keep us posted! That red is suweet.  

imidazol97

jmonroe said:

You are way too forgiving. If that was a GM dealer they would be crucified for doing something like that; just ask @imidazol97.

Mercedes should never have built a car that wouldn't meet specs for any country where it would be sold, let alone shipping it knowing full well it would have to sit somewhere until it could meet specs. I've said it before, your car will have its first birthday, or damn close to it, by the time you get it. If nothing else they should discount it for being that old when you eventually get.

That is what you should be talking to them about. jmonroe

X2

All that's missing is we should be hearing the same kind of stories when there's a GM problem about all the GM's the poster's family have had that gave them trouble in the past 50 years. IOW, we should hear from people about all the problems with MB's and MB dealers. LOL

graphicguy

Thanks for the input everyone. I think the E350, aside from being out of my price target range, isn't the sort of car I really prefer. Without a doubt, very nice cars....even the $40K C300 I drove, just well executed (something I'm keenly aware of given my recent predicament with the CTS).

Driver, on the one hand, I certainly appreciate Mercedes not releasing the E Class you ordered until they have all the "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed with configuration and parts, given I'm involved in just the opposite and what happens when a company doesn't really care about any of that. I also understand the frustration, given you ordered a car, and can't rely on the delivery dates that were promised.

It's good to hear all the positive comments about the Infiniti. I test drove both the Q50s, white over black (the one with the wonky steering) and the Q50 3.0T Premium was the red over tan I posted pics of. I preferred the 3.0T, steering was not artificial feeling as it was with the "S" version.

Still not used to their new nomenclature. The Q50 is the mid-size sedan. The Q60 is the coupe version. The Q70 is the large sedan. The Q50 comes in several versions....one with the Mercedes 2.0L turbo from the Mercedes CLA. Then there's a hybrid version which comes with a version of the last gen 3.5L V6 coupled with electric motors. Then there's the 3.0T twin turbo in the Premium I'm looking at (which, like BMW does, feels way under rated on the power front). Then, there's the tarted up version, 3.0T which they rate at 400HP.

The rest are SUVs/CUVs, that range from small (the one based on the Mercedes CUV) to gargantuan, where a small family could live.

I think after really liking the C300 I that was red over tan, I'm kind of partial to it, now. Beats the Black over Black, or White over White colors I've had recently.

No real differences between the 2016 and 2017. TrueCar has the 2016 price at $7K off MSRP. I offered $10K off, which brought it to about $3K under my target budget. They accepted the offer. No real high pressure. I had test driven it again, Monday, as we had President's Day off. It took them a couple of days to get back to me to accept or reject my offer since the GM had to sign off on the deal as he had taken a few days off.

I told them I wasn't back in town until Friday. They said no problem. Took a few details about how I was paying, insurance, registration, etc. Said it would be detailed and ready to go on Friday.

Easy-peasy......probably the easiest deal I've ever done.

I enjoyed the exercise. Didn't end up how I thought it would. There are lots of really good cars in that $30K-$40K price range. I was particularly impressed with the Accord Touring and the Toyota Avalon. I liked the C300, too. Not a bad choice to be made with any of them.

driver100

Congrats GG, You did great, that is a gorgeous looking car and you will be pleased with the performance.

I didn't think I would be buying another red car but I love red, it is a little different and it is adds to the fun of driving. Matched with a contrasting light interior it really looks and feels good.

You came in under budget and you have a great car you will really enjoy....you deserve it after what you have been through.

**btw, I agree, I'd rather have the car in working order before delivery rather than trying to fix it up while it is under warranty under my watch.

driver100

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

driver100 said:

Lots of products are delayed....possibly parts were a bit slow. I couldn't get the premium white paint job because it wasn't ready yet. Seems a part for Intelligent Driving is in short supply. The new E has had a big revamp, so you have to expect delays are possible. I have a feeling those cars are calibrated once they reach the destination, so first the red tape inspection, then fine calibrating.

The vultures are desperate to make something out of nothing.

The rep says software, and they did say back in December the car had to be tested for certification. In most of the world certification is easy, and it was being done in the U.S. and Canada, but not very well as VW thought they could get away with fudging the numbers....and they did and only got caught by a total fluke.

Now the government is being extra careful. They told me it was software and I tend to believe them. I am just guessing, but it is possible the car missed the mark on some test, but, that can be tweaked. I am sure they are trying to get every drop of gasoline to give max mileage etc., I am not concerned, they will get it right or I will take a C300 instead...no problem

I can handle a C300:

graphicguy

roadburner said:

I've been working at the dealer for almost eight months so I thought I'd compile my Top Ten List of new BMWs that I have driven...

1. M2
2. M3/4 Competition Package
3. M240i
4. 440i Gran Coupe M Sport w/ M Performance Power and Sound
5. X1 M Sport
6. X4 M40i
7. 540i M Sport(G30)
8. i3
9. 750i M Sport
10. 330e M Sport

In other news, our local 1/8 mile drag strip opens next month, so the M235i will make its debut soon. I'm hoping it will post time in the mid eight second range.

RB....impressive list. BTW....are you officially a full fledged BMW sales person?

ab348

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

driver100

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe said:

You are way too forgiving. If that was a GM dealer they would be crucified for doing something like that; just ask @imidazol97.

Mercedes should never have built a car that wouldn't meet specs for any country where it would be sold, let alone shipping it knowing full well it would have to sit somewhere until it could meet specs. I've said it before, your car will have its first birthday, or damn close to it, by the time you get it. If nothing else they should discount it for being that old when you eventually get.

That is what you should be talking to them about. jmonroe

X2

All that's missing is we should be hearing the same kind of stories when there's a GM problem about all the GM's the poster's family have had that gave them trouble in the past 50 years. IOW, we should hear from people about all the problems with MB's and MB dealers. LOL

I'd rather have the engine tweaked before I get delivery than have them play with it for 2 months while it sits in the service bay.

driver100

suydam said:

fintail said:

Tough choice, as they are different segments. One a sporty smaller sedan, one the mature larger sedan (with the lightest dash of "sport" just because). The Infiniti is definitely the better value, and the MB is the fancier more substantial car. If you have a hard budget, the Infiniti would be the deal.

graphicguy said:

These are my two top choices.

Would reliability tip the scales for you? The Infiniti probably wins there

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50



The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.

driver100

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

jpp75

graphicguy said:

BTW.....I had a real ball driving this car.....

http://www.infinitiofcincinnati.com/VehicleDetails/new-2016-INFINITI-Q50-3.0t_AWD_Premium-Cincinnati-OH/2789891653

I can buy it for $10K off MSRP, which puts it well under my $40K limit. I like it.....a lot. It's FAST...very fast transmission shifts telepathically, steering is much better than the DAS they have on the sport models. Brakes are strong and easy to modulate. The 3.0 twin turbo even sounds expensive and handling ranks pretty close to the ATS. Great stereo-BOSE has really upped their game. It's great in the CTS, and in the Q50. Probably pretty darned close to my reference ELS system in the Acura TL.

For $37K, it's a screaming bargain. All I have to do is pull the trigger. It's probably at the top of my list.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is this....which is at the opposite end of the sport spectrum....

http://www.mbcincy.com/inventory/new-2016-mercedes-benz-e-class-e350-4matic-sport-sedan-4matic-sedan-wddhf8jb2gb282114

I know I can buy this for $55K, or what a new CTS costs with a 4 cyl. But, that's a pretty far ways from $40K. It's beautiful, too. I liked the C Class, and I love turbo 4 cyl. But, the one in the C Class and now the E Class sounds course and unrefined for that kind of money. The E350 doesn't have that problem.

These are my two top choices.

First off, glad you're OK after the accident!

The Q50 is a great car for that price. I had one of the first Hybrid Q50s on the market, my biggest complaint was how soft and floaty it felt. They may have fixed that in the newer models, but to me it was a comfy cruiser and had no sport at all (I didn't have the S model so that may have been part of it).

The car was quick, efficient, loaded with tech, but I didn't love driving it. Coming from the 2012 G37x it was a huge change and for me personally I preferred the G37x. In fact the S60 my ex kept was more fun to drive than the Q50, I always described it as more "nimble". If they've tightened it up a bit and you like the drive I'd buy the Q50 in a heartbeat, it seems like a nice step up from the Accord Touring for just a few thousand more.

The E350 is beautiful and I'm sure it's more refined but hard to say if it's worth an extra $18k over the Infiniti.

Good luck with the Cadillac debacle, I'm sure you can't wait to walk away from the brand for good.

graphicguy

driver100 said:

suydam said:

fintail said:

Tough choice, as they are different segments. One a sporty smaller sedan, one the mature larger sedan (with the lightest dash of "sport" just because). The Infiniti is definitely the better value, and the MB is the fancier more substantial car. If you have a hard budget, the Infiniti would be the deal.

graphicguy said:

These are my two top choices.

Would reliability tip the scales for you? The Infiniti probably wins there

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50



The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.

Driver....I think history is on Infiniti's side when it comes to reliability. Certainly much better than what I've had the last few years.

Seems like U.S. News' biggest complaint is with the Entertainment System. They state they didn't know which screen did what. They must not have spent much time with the car. The top 8" screen is the Nav map, the bottom 7" screen is for audio and setting everything else. Under that, are buttons for audio, settings, etc. There's even an actual, honest to goodness knob for volume in the center of the stack. Steering wheel has redundant controls. I know this from spending maybe 30 minutes with the car. Should be a piece of cake for them.

The steering complaints surround the DAS system. Mine doesn't have that.

I know you really liked the C300. Indeed a pretty car. I liked it, too. First, uncharacteristically, the motor was rather corse. I was surprised. I think the previous gen 6 cyl was much better. Again, uncharacteristically, the Burmeister stereo wasn't as good as the Bose in either my CTS or the Q50. Quite surprised by that, too.

Then, the Q50 was faster.....BY A LOT! Transmission was smooth and ready to hit the gears smoothly and without hesitation when pressed. 3.0T makes great mechanical noises, too. Controls felt high quality and worked smoothly....same with the C300. Q has all the safety goodies on it.

There was the $3,000 price delta. That was big. If I were in a different frame of mind, I really liked the E350 and might have pulled the trigger given the price. Maybe in another 10 years or so, it might fit my wants/desires better. Really nice car. Not taking anything away from it, but I was surprised how closely the Toyota Avalon embodied the same feel, ride, and handling as the E.

Q50 came in at the last minute as I had not driven the 3.0T nor a Q without the DAS.

If it wasn't the Q, it would have been the Accord Touring...probably would have been able to buy one right around the $31-ish range. It was THAT good!

driver100

Good comments JPP. I like your analysis of the Infinity's you owned. Some people understand "driving dynamics", and some others don't.

The E350 may or may not be a better car than the Q50, but $18000 difference really makes this a no brainer when it would be way over budget anyway. Why put yourself in that position if you don't have to.

It seems that GG doesn't do a lot of miles, but he wants a car that he will enjoy driving. The Accord would have done nicely too, but, for a few bucks more the Infinity will be a lot more fun and rewarding to drive.

The Caddie,,,,well, may it RIP.

fintail

Can they say if it is different software than on an E400 coupe (I can't imagine how or why)? Or different from a W212 E400? With so much delay, I'd be nagging someone for specifics, which I know can be impossible to obtain from the regulators who are so bravely protecting us from evil.

Go for a C43

driver100 said:

The rep says software, and they did say back in December the car had to be tested for certification. In most of the world certification is easy, and it was being done in the U.S. and Canada, but not very well as VW thought they could get away with fudging the numbers....and they did and only got caught by a total fluke.

Now the government is being extra careful. They told me it was software and I tend to believe them. I am just guessing, but it is possible the car missed the mark on some test, but, that can be tweaked. I am sure they are trying to get every drop of gasoline to give max mileage etc., I am not concerned, they will get it right or I will take a C300 instead...no problem

I can handle a C300:

fintail

The E350 is also seen as kind of an older person's car, for better or worse (not knocking it, I bring down the average age a little I'm sure ), and really, is something I would want to lease or buy CPO rather than new, unless I was going to keep it for 10 years. Initial depreciation is enormous.

graphicguy said:

There was the $3,000 price delta. That was big. If I were in a different frame of mind, I really liked the E350 and might have pulled the trigger given the price. Maybe in another 10 years or so, it might fit my wants/desires better. Really nice car. Not taking anything away from it, but I was surprised how closely the Toyota Avalon embodied the same feel, ride, and handling as the E.

Q50 came in at the last minute as I had not driven the 3.0T nor a Q without the DAS.

If it wasn't the Q, it would have been the Accord Touring...probably would have been able to buy one right around the $31-ish range. It was THAT good!

driver100

GG, I think you made the right choice. Besides the E350 is more of an old man's car. Personally, I couldn't bring myself to buy a car that large with a 4 cylinder engine. 4 cyl engines belong in smaller zippier cars.

I agree, the Accord was a tremendous buy and would provide you with a very reliable car with a lot of character. But, for a bit more you got something special.

I also agree the reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt because they mention things that don't even apply like DAS. My only reason for writing my post.....and I originally wrote it before I knew you bought the Q, was because it was mentioned for about the 1000th time how unreliable Mercedes is....in the minds of the nay sayers. I just wanted to point out that sometimes you have to check things out before making blank statements, that one car is more reliable than another.

I think you made the right choice and I am sure you will enjoy that beautiful sporty and spirited machine.

graphicguy

JPP...thanks! CTS RIP, indeed! Had not driven the Q50 hybrid. Matter of fact, I think the only ones I saw on the Infiniti lot were used ones, no new ones. Not sure that means anything, though. I drove the one I bought in "attack" mode. Handled great. But, I think all the different "Q"s come with their own personalities, depending on the flavor you buy.


Not denigrating the E350 or C Class at all. I really liked the E. I could see eating up 100s of miles at a time in that car and be happy I was the E the whole time. C? Not so sure. Yeah, beautiful interior and exterior. But, I think my sister's or Driver's previous gen C drives better.

As we say, different strokes for different folks.

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Thanks for the input everyone. I think the E350, aside from being out of my price target range, isn't the sort of car I really prefer. Without a doubt, very nice cars....even the $40K C300 I drove, just well executed (something I'm keenly aware of given my recent predicament with the CTS).

Driver, on the one hand, I certainly appreciate Mercedes not releasing the E Class you ordered until they have all the "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed with configuration and parts, given I'm involved in just the opposite and what happens when a company doesn't really care about any of that. I also understand the frustration, given you ordered a car, and can't rely on the delivery dates that were promised.

It's good to hear all the positive comments about the Infiniti. I test drove both the Q50s, white over black (the one with the wonky steering) and the Q50 3.0T Premium was the red over tan I posted pics of. I preferred the 3.0T, steering was not artificial feeling as it was with the "S" version.

Still not used to their new nomenclature. The Q50 is the mid-size sedan. The Q60 is the coupe version. The Q70 is the large sedan. The Q50 comes in several versions....one with the Mercedes 2.0L turbo from the Mercedes CLA. Then there's a hybrid version which comes with a version of the last gen 3.5L V6 coupled with electric motors. Then there's the 3.0T twin turbo in the Premium I'm looking at (which, like BMW does, feels way under rated on the power front). Then, there's the tarted up version, 3.0T which they rate at 400HP.

The rest are SUVs/CUVs, that range from small (the one based on the Mercedes CUV) to gargantuan, where a small family could live.

I think after really liking the C300 I that was red over tan, I'm kind of partial to it, now. Beats the Black over Black, or White over White colors I've had recently.

No real differences between the 2016 and 2017. TrueCar has the 2016 price at $7K off MSRP. I offered $10K off, which brought it to about $3K under my target budget. They accepted the offer. No real high pressure. I had test driven it again, Monday, as we had President's Day off. It took them a couple of days to get back to me to accept or reject my offer since the GM had to sign off on the deal as he had taken a few days off.

I told them I wasn't back in town until Friday. They said no problem. Took a few details about how I was paying, insurance, registration, etc. Said it would be detailed and ready to go on Friday.

Easy-peasy......probably the easiest deal I've ever done.

I enjoyed the exercise. Didn't end up how I thought it would. There are lots of really good cars in that $30K-$40K price range. I was particularly impressed with the Accord Touring and the Toyota Avalon. I liked the C300, too. Not a bad choice to be made with any of them.

So we'll both have gone from a CTS to an Infiniti. And, oddly enough, your Infiniti is the color combo my CTS was. Of course, I did have a VW in the middle there, but that was always intended as a short-term flip vehicle.

driver100

fintail said:

The E350 is also seen as kind of an older person's car, for better or worse (not knocking it, I bring down the average age a little I'm sure ), and really, is something I would want to lease or buy CPO rather than new, unless I was going to keep it for 10 years. Initial depreciation is enormous.

graphicguy said:

There was the $3,000 price delta. That was big. If I were in a different frame of mind, I really liked the E350 and might have pulled the trigger given the price. Maybe in another 10 years or so, it might fit my wants/desires better. Really nice car. Not taking anything away from it, but I was surprised how closely the Toyota Avalon embodied the same feel, ride, and handling as the E.

Q50 came in at the last minute as I had not driven the 3.0T nor a Q without the DAS.

If it wasn't the Q, it would have been the Accord Touring...probably would have been able to buy one right around the $31-ish range. It was THAT good!

I hadn't read your post when I wrote the same fintail....I perceive the E350 to be an older persons car. It is for someone will be satisfied with something with less flair, less spirit, someone who doesn't care about "driving dynamics".

Like I say if I was getting the 4 cyl engine I would buy a C300, and even then I would prefer the 6. I think the E350 is for an older driver, or someone who just doesn't appreciate handling and spirited driving, but, wants to own a Mercedes. Probably more interested in gas mileage than having fun driving.

Regarding finding out about why the car is delayed, I really don't care that much. I am pretty sure it is government officials doing their job.....at a snails pace, not caring how it affects peoples lives or the economy. :@

graphicguy

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

Thanks for the input everyone. I think the E350, aside from being out of my price target range, isn't the sort of car I really prefer. Without a doubt, very nice cars....even the $40K C300 I drove, just well executed (something I'm keenly aware of given my recent predicament with the CTS).

Driver, on the one hand, I certainly appreciate Mercedes not releasing the E Class you ordered until they have all the "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed with configuration and parts, given I'm involved in just the opposite and what happens when a company doesn't really care about any of that. I also understand the frustration, given you ordered a car, and can't rely on the delivery dates that were promised.

It's good to hear all the positive comments about the Infiniti. I test drove both the Q50s, white over black (the one with the wonky steering) and the Q50 3.0T Premium was the red over tan I posted pics of. I preferred the 3.0T, steering was not artificial feeling as it was with the "S" version.

Still not used to their new nomenclature. The Q50 is the mid-size sedan. The Q60 is the coupe version. The Q70 is the large sedan. The Q50 comes in several versions....one with the Mercedes 2.0L turbo from the Mercedes CLA. Then there's a hybrid version which comes with a version of the last gen 3.5L V6 coupled with electric motors. Then there's the 3.0T twin turbo in the Premium I'm looking at (which, like BMW does, feels way under rated on the power front). Then, there's the tarted up version, 3.0T which they rate at 400HP.

The rest are SUVs/CUVs, that range from small (the one based on the Mercedes CUV) to gargantuan, where a small family could live.

I think after really liking the C300 I that was red over tan, I'm kind of partial to it, now. Beats the Black over Black, or White over White colors I've had recently.

No real differences between the 2016 and 2017. TrueCar has the 2016 price at $7K off MSRP. I offered $10K off, which brought it to about $3K under my target budget. They accepted the offer. No real high pressure. I had test driven it again, Monday, as we had President's Day off. It took them a couple of days to get back to me to accept or reject my offer since the GM had to sign off on the deal as he had taken a few days off.

I told them I wasn't back in town until Friday. They said no problem. Took a few details about how I was paying, insurance, registration, etc. Said it would be detailed and ready to go on Friday.

Easy-peasy......probably the easiest deal I've ever done.

I enjoyed the exercise. Didn't end up how I thought it would. There are lots of really good cars in that $30K-$40K price range. I was particularly impressed with the Accord Touring and the Toyota Avalon. I liked the C300, too. Not a bad choice to be made with any of them.

So we'll both have gone from a CTS to an Infiniti. And, oddly enough, your Infiniti is the color combo my CTS was. Of course, I did have a VW in the middle there, but that was always intended as a short-term flip vehicle.

WOW...that's funny, but true. We must have the same tastes....except you had the HOT Caddy. I had (have?) the mild one.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50

The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.

I honestly can't stand the fact that so many published measurements of "reliability" are really just "initial quality" or "predicted." True reliability won't be determined for quite some time.

suydam

Consumer Reports reliability is measured over time. I agree, initial quality doesn't mean much. With new models, of course, predictions are all you've got.

ab348

driver100 said:

I'd rather have the engine tweaked before I get delivery than have them play with it for 2 months while it sits in the service bay.

But then you could have regaled us with tales of how miserable M-B is and how difficult they are in their buyback process! Ah well... hopefully they will have it ready for you in April.

uplanderguy

jmonroe, the restoration shop that did my Studebaker was on Rt. 22 in Blairsville. I used to get off of 76 at Monroeville/Murrysville to get there. They did a very good job with my $ limitations up-front, and are still there.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I'd rather have the engine tweaked before I get delivery than have them play with it for 2 months while it sits in the service bay.

But then you could have regaled us with tales of how miserable M-B is and how difficult they are in their buyback process! Ah well... hopefully they will have it ready for you in April.

I'd rather not have that kind of experience, even if it does make for interesting reading.

Hopefully I will have my car in April, and it will be fine just as our other MBs have been.

ab348

Speaking of vehicle quality and problems, here is the news of the day from JD Power:

http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA109095222.PDF

houdini1

driver100 said:

suydam said:

fintail said:

Tough choice, as they are different segments. One a sporty smaller sedan, one the mature larger sedan (with the lightest dash of "sport" just because). The Infiniti is definitely the better value, and the MB is the fancier more substantial car. If you have a hard budget, the Infiniti would be the deal.

graphicguy said:

These are my two top choices.

Would reliability tip the scales for you? The Infiniti probably wins there

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50



The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.

LOL, did anyone else notice that U.S. News ranks the Cadillac CTS #1 in midsize luxury sedans !!

driver100

ab348 said:

Speaking of vehicle quality and problems, here is the news of the day from JD Power:

http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA109095222.PDF

Extremely interesting - a few people will be very surprised if they study it a bit!

driver100

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

suydam said:

fintail said:

Tough choice, as they are different segments. One a sporty smaller sedan, one the mature larger sedan (with the lightest dash of "sport" just because). The Infiniti is definitely the better value, and the MB is the fancier more substantial car. If you have a hard budget, the Infiniti would be the deal.

graphicguy said:

These are my two top choices.

Would reliability tip the scales for you? The Infiniti probably wins there

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50



The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.

It is also interesting to note that U.S. News ranks the Cadillac CTS #1 in midsize luxury sedans !!

It does, but, it is a 4 way tie. Probably GGs car didn't get reported for repairs, since it is in the shop for a recall.

abacomike

What surprised me was Infiniti being third from the bottom.  I would have expected the brand to be up there with Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota, Mercedes and BMW.  When I was with Infiniti, it was much higher in satisfaction.  I wonder what happened.

suydam

Here's Consumer Reports latest reliability ratings. Infiniti is back in the top 10.
http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

ab348

Either JDP or CR must be FAKE NEWS!!!

uplanderguy

That CR article was published four months ago. It'll be mildly interesting to see what changes, if anything, from then to the annual April issue.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe said:

You are way too forgiving. If that was a GM dealer they would be crucified for doing something like that; just ask @imidazol97.

Mercedes should never have built a car that wouldn't meet specs for any country where it would be sold, let alone shipping it knowing full well it would have to sit somewhere until it could meet specs. I've said it before, your car will have its first birthday, or damn close to it, by the time you get it. If nothing else they should discount it for being that old when you eventually get.

That is what you should be talking to them about. jmonroe

X2

All that's missing is we should be hearing the same kind of stories when there's a GM problem about all the GM's the poster's family have had that gave them trouble in the past 50 years. IOW, we should hear from people about all the problems with MB's and MB dealers. LOL

I'd rather have the engine tweaked before I get delivery than have them play with it for 2 months while it sits in the service bay.

Of course you would and you will because you do not have any say in this anymore.

MB built a car they couldn't deliver and now you have to live with that. They might not even have the program ready for cars already built and shipped, but if any are coming out of the factory now, they are the ones that get the priority. Meanwhile your car sits in a lot somewhere until THEY decide what and when THEY want to do something with it.

Every day this is starting to sound more and more like what @graphicguy is living with.

If nothing else get your 80 grand check back from them or get a stop payment put on it and let them keep it. For all you know the check might be "stale" by now so you might not have to worry about it anymore. Just walk away.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead

The person with two watches never knows what time it is.

driver100

suydam said:

Here's Consumer Reports latest reliability ratings. Infiniti is back in the top 10.
http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Looks like they counted GGs car on this survey, it is #17.

Mercedes wasn't too high either, probably Smart Car brought it down.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

Spin it a little more and you'll believe it.

jmonroe

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

The person with two watches never knows what time it is.

I like that saying....but are you referring to what I think you are referring to?

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

Spin it a little more and you'll believe it.

jmonroe

I prefer to look at the glass as half full.

Of course, you are the engineer:
"An optimist will tell you the glass is half-full; the pessimist, half-empty; and the engineer will tell you the glass is twice the size it needs to be"

thebean

jmonroe said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

Spin it a little more and you'll believe it. jmonroe

I think you guys should get off Driver's rear-end.  It's his deal and he is happy with the way it's going.  I don't understand why it's so important to pick at him.  It's not hurting any of you all.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

Spin it a little more and you'll believe it.

jmonroe

I prefer to look at the glass as half full.

Of course, you are the engineer:
"An optimist will tell you the glass is half-full; the pessimist, half-empty; and the engineer will tell you the glass is twice the size it needs to be"

No, I prefer to look at the facts.

jmonroe

thebean said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

Spin it a little more and you'll believe it.

jmonroe

I think you guys should get off Driver's rear-end.  It's his deal and he is happy with the way it's going.  I don't understand why it's so important to pick at him.  It's not hurting any of you all.

imidazol97

Wow.

jmonroe

thebean said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.

The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!

It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.

Spin it a little more and you'll believe it.

jmonroe

I think you guys should get off Driver's rear-end.  It's his deal and he is happy with the way it's going.  I don't understand why it's so important to pick at him.  It's not hurting any of you all.

I'm not picking on him. I'm just pointing out the facts as they have been presented here.

@driver100 has his own way of trying to justify things whether they are defensible or not.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

suydam said:

fintail said:

Tough choice, as they are different segments. One a sporty smaller sedan, one the mature larger sedan (with the lightest dash of "sport" just because). The Infiniti is definitely the better value, and the MB is the fancier more substantial car. If you have a hard budget, the Infiniti would be the deal.

graphicguy said:

These are my two top choices.

Would reliability tip the scales for you? The Infiniti probably wins there

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50



The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.

I don't much pay attention to reliability charts unless the cars are 3+ years old--that's when things start rattling, falling off, or breaking down IMO.