Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

graphicguy

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

That's not the case. I had things that I felt were wrong. I simply overlooked them because in general, the car started, ran, drove, stopped and did all of that safely. Generally speaking, the electronics worked.

However, sometimes Bluetooth worked, sometimes it didn't. I overlooked that.

The transmission (the 8 speed GM made) would slam into gears frequently, and also did the same buy kicking down a couple of gears. In a turbo car, where the turbos need to spool up, this made for some crazy drive ability issues sometimes. I overlooked that.

There was a sunroof rumble. I overlooked that.

In short, I overlooked a lot in the hopes that the car would be reliable transportation.

BTW....it's now over two months that the car has been in the dealer's service dept, with no clear time frame when it will be returned to me. I don't know if it's a parts issue. I don't know if it's an issue which can't be pinpointed. I do know it's undriveable and unsafe.

graphicguy

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

graphicguy said:

TJC.....Not sure what AVR or Pre-Processor you have in your system, but check to see if it supports Bluetooth, or even WiFi. I know the Pioneer Elite AVR I have supports wireless connection of my iTunes library.

However, if you're looking for something to stream in a specific room, I have this in my bedroom.

B&O Beo Play S3

https://www.beoplay.com/products/beoplays3

List is $300, but I've seen a Groupon floating around to buy it for $130.

By far, the best sounding small Bluetooth speaker I've ever heard....that includes the $300+ ones from Bose, JBL, UE, Beats, etc.

Hope that helps.

I like that B&O, nice piece. My wife bought my a Bose version that I know she shelled out some bucks for. We use it outside mostly.

My receiver is an aging piece I just can't seem to part with (Yamaha RX-V1) so no wireless. Here is one option I'm considering, https://www.crutchfield.com/S-0SCTJaoexSv/p_532BTA10/Harman-Kardon-BTA-10.html. For the price it would be hard to go wrong. I need to look and see if they have one that has a Digital output, the Yamaha has a really good D/A converter that I'm sure would yield better sound.

That RX-V1 was top of the line, at the time (thinking early '00s?). Matter of fact, that piece was something of a legend in HT circles back then. I undersand your unwillingness to part with it.

Hard to go wrong with that HK BTA receiver. Put it in the audio chain and let me know how it works.

I tend to have my iPhone with me throughout the house. So, that means having a Bluetooth speaker is the rooms I frequent most since 90% of the time I'm playing music, listening to an audio book, or listening to a podcast stored on the phone.

Main listening area (and HT room) has all the rest of the gear. Just bought a turntable at an estate sale a month or so ago. Guy was widower, living alone, getting ready to move to assisted living. Had a NICE stereo set up with all MacIntosh Electronics, a Nakimichi Dragon Cassette player/recorder, a REVOX Reel-to-reel, a Thorens turntable (which I snagged). Apparently, he had some electrostatic speakers (assuming Magnepan) that one of the relatives stole.....er......inherited. I tried to buy the entire package but was way off on the electronics, as that stuff brought insane prices. Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for.

Talked to him briefly. He had Alzheimers and would go in and out of knowing what you (or he) was saying. His daughter was close by and kept reminding him of what the conversation's topic was as we spoke. Apparently, he had a vinyl collection that numbered over 1,000 (someone got a gold mine with that), that was bought in its entirety. He had a bunch of reel-to-reel tapes that essentially was a back up of all his vinyl. He used cassettes in his car.

Seemed like a nice man. Sorry to see the state he was in.

@graphicguy - I recently picked up a book called "The Revenge of Analog". Great stuff about how society is coming back to the way things were before digital - vinyl albums, books instead of Kindle, paper notebooks (great stories about Moleskine, if you're into that kind of stuff). board games, etc.

Highly recommended.

Sounds quite interesting. Thanks, I'll check it out!

roadburner

28firefighter said:

Happy wife, happy life. Rookie if he is arguing about it...

I've mentioned this before, but back in 2007 we were remodeling our kitchen and my wife wanted to install a double convection oven. On another mail list I asked about the best oven brands and one guy opined that she probably didn't need a double oven. I replied:

"my wife doesn't ask why I want a 300+ hp 155 mph car to drive to work, and I'm not asking her why she needs a double oven. Hell, I don't care if she gets a triple oven."

Communication is VERY important in a marriage...

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for. .

Does this mean my Dual turntable and Shure cartridge along with my Les Elgart LPs may be a goldmine in a short time? I've kept them so long they're valuable again? What about my AR-3a's?

graphicguy

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

So if GG got a 12-month lease on his CTS, the car would have received an A. But since I don't know of anyone with 13 month or less leases, that's a problem for GM. Also, it seems to me the vast majority of recalls don't require immediate "stop use" notices.

If I'd have returned my Neon at 35,999 miles I probably would have given it a B- or C+ at the time.

Heck...let's make it a 1 day lease. That way Cadillac can claim they have 100% satisfaction given all the people I know love their new cars driving them out of the dealership the first time.

roadburner

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

graphicguy said:

TJC.....Not sure what AVR or Pre-Processor you have in your system, but check to see if it supports Bluetooth, or even WiFi. I know the Pioneer Elite AVR I have supports wireless connection of my iTunes library.

However, if you're looking for something to stream in a specific room, I have this in my bedroom.

B&O Beo Play S3

https://www.beoplay.com/products/beoplays3

List is $300, but I've seen a Groupon floating around to buy it for $130.

By far, the best sounding small Bluetooth speaker I've ever heard....that includes the $300+ ones from Bose, JBL, UE, Beats, etc.

Hope that helps.

I like that B&O, nice piece. My wife bought my a Bose version that I know she shelled out some bucks for. We use it outside mostly.

My receiver is an aging piece I just can't seem to part with (Yamaha RX-V1) so no wireless. Here is one option I'm considering, https://www.crutchfield.com/S-0SCTJaoexSv/p_532BTA10/Harman-Kardon-BTA-10.html. For the price it would be hard to go wrong. I need to look and see if they have one that has a Digital output, the Yamaha has a really good D/A converter that I'm sure would yield better sound.

That RX-V1 was top of the line, at the time (thinking early '00s?). Matter of fact, that piece was something of a legend in HT circles back then. I undersand your unwillingness to part with it.

Hard to go wrong with that HK BTA receiver. Put it in the audio chain and let me know how it works.

I tend to have my iPhone with me throughout the house. So, that means having a Bluetooth speaker is the rooms I frequent most since 90% of the time I'm playing music, listening to an audio book, or listening to a podcast stored on the phone.

Main listening area (and HT room) has all the rest of the gear. Just bought a turntable at an estate sale a month or so ago. Guy was widower, living alone, getting ready to move to assisted living. Had a NICE stereo set up with all MacIntosh Electronics, a Nakimichi Dragon Cassette player/recorder, a REVOX Reel-to-reel, a Thorens turntable (which I snagged). Apparently, he had some electrostatic speakers (assuming Magnepan) that one of the relatives stole.....er......inherited. I tried to buy the entire package but was way off on the electronics, as that stuff brought insane prices. Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for.

Talked to him briefly. He had Alzheimers and would go in and out of knowing what you (or he) was saying. His daughter was close by and kept reminding him of what the conversation's topic was as we spoke. Apparently, he had a vinyl collection that numbered over 1,000 (someone got a gold mine with that), that was bought in its entirety. He had a bunch of reel-to-reel tapes that essentially was a back up of all his vinyl. He used cassettes in his car.

Seemed like a nice man. Sorry to see the state he was in.

@graphicguy - I recently picked up a book called "The Revenge of Analog". Great stuff about how society is coming back to the way things were before digital - vinyl albums, books instead of Kindle, paper notebooks (great stories about Moleskine, if you're into that kind of stuff). board games, etc.

Highly recommended.

My uncle let me have his mint condition AR XA turntable for $75. He was actually going to donate it to his church and I told him to give me a price and I'd write a check to his church for that amount. Done.

ab348

graphicguy said:

BTW....it's now over two months that the car has been in the dealer's service dept, with no clear time frame when it will be returned to me. I don't know if it's a parts issue. I don't know if it's an issue which can't be pinpointed. I do know it's undriveable and unsafe.

Well, if it's undriveable, it must be perfectly safe since it isn't going anywhere. If you didn't mention any of the other issues I'm not sure how anyone else would know about them. Good luck with the Infiniti.

jmonroe

andres3 said:

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

Here is my take on "driving dynamics". It's meaningless if the drivers skill is not up to the dynamics of the car, and let's face it most drivers skills aren't up that high. I would say that for the vast majority of drivers in an emergency situation would do as well in a Chevy as they would an Audi.

Interesting point. I wonder if an expert driver in a hooptie would fare better than an average driver in a performance car.

YES.

Notice that I kept this answer short for @driver100's benefit.

If you would like for me to expound on my answer let me know...BUT, @driver100 ain't gonna like it.

jmonroe

That's a tough loaded question though. I think the average driver being put through one weekend HPDE education/event would fare better, depending on the testing criteria.

Is the test an accident avoidance lane change exercise, or following their accident tally over a 15 year period? Does the expert driver tend to allow himself to drive distracted more or less than the average driver. These would be the key issues in answering the questions correctly.

I answered @oldfarmer50's question as it was asked. He said "expert hooptie driver", so I take that as a presented fact. Therefore, he (that driver) is an "expert". @oldfarmer50 also said, "average driver", so again, I take that as a presented fact.

Ain't it obvious that an "expert" is better than "average".

You got into the particulars of what an "average driver" would gain from training. The "expert driver" has already obtained the training whether by formal methods or trial and error. In either case it was a presented as a fact that he was an "expect".

It was an easy question, so I gave an easy answer.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

some people (not saying Uplander is one of them!) never considered build quality stuff as problems. So as long as the car started and ran, random trim pieces falling off, squeaks and rattles, etc. were not counted. Basically the car would decay around them but was considered reliable with no major systems failing.

and this is not just a D3 concept. Volvo, heck all Euros, and plenty of Asian brands have had advocates that did this.

That would be me. I can tolerate a lot of little things falling off as long as the vehicle doesn't leave me stranded. That doesn't count for new vehicles. Anything breaks before I'm done paying it off and I'm furious.

suydam

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for. .

Does this mean my Dual turntable and Shure cartridge along with my Les Elgart LPs may be a goldmine in a short time? I've kept them so long they're valuable again? What about my AR-3a's?

Sadly no. It's really hard to find someone to take it off your hands. The problem is all the newer stuff is so much smaller and few people want enormous gear taking up space.

uplanderguy

Did you buy a lot of trucks in the 80's or 90's.? I generally find people were more satisfied by Big 3 trucks than the cars in the 20th Century.

Also, you mention only "major" problems. Did you have any Chevy's that caused death by a thousand nails of minor problems?

I had '81 and '82 Monte Carlos new ('81 was stolen), new '85 Celebrity Eurosport, and new '89 Beretta GT.
Also had '90 Corsica, '93 Caprice Classic, '97 Cavalier, and '99 Venture van--all were new

I truly can't remember any repairs on any of them other than the Celebrity. I'm sure there was something, but nothing that sticks in my craw--and I am a world-class cheapskate.

The Corsica had 108K, the Caprice, 94K, and the Cavalier, 130K when I sold or traded them.

I have the maintenance done when recommended, and if something doesn't seem right, I get it in--especially when under warranty.

I'd consider all of them good, dependable cars...other than the Celebrity. But even it was a fun car to drive, for a FWD of that period. I tried to option it up like the darling of the car mags then, the 6000STE--with the 2.8 liter MFI V6 and Goodyear Eagle tires on aluminum wheels. The salesman told me the aluminum wheels were on backorder and I told him if the car came in with the steel wheels, I wouldn't take it, LOL. It came in with the aluminum wheels, but the car took twelve weeks to come in. Ugh.

suydam

Were these auto trans? I was driving manuals in those days. I had an '88 Mazda 323 and a '95 Civic around then. Those cars were fun to drive. Their GM competition would have been the Citation?
It would be interesting to see how the cars you had were reviewed comparable to the competition. That I think was a big problem for GM then.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for. .

Does this mean my Dual turntable and Shure cartridge along with my Les Elgart LPs may be a goldmine in a short time? I've kept them so long they're valuable again? What about my AR-3a's?

IMID....you might be surprised. Those Dual Turntables (and assuming with the Shure M95ed cartridge) were the stalwarts of vinyl play. You could spend more, but it was debateable if other turntables were better. Depending on condition, they worth more than you paid for them....probably a lot more.

Can't help you with Les Elgart. Count Basie, Buddy Rich, Nelson Riddle, Benny Goodman...all those guys were the surperstars at the height of swing.

More modern big bands....Big Bad VooDoo Daddy, Brian Setzer, maybe a couple of others are the equivalents, today.

I just sold about 300 CDs to half Price books, as I have most all of it burned into iTunes. The only CDs I kept were the SACDs, DVD-Audio and some out of print music.

andres3

graphicguy said:

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

So if GG got a 12-month lease on his CTS, the car would have received an A. But since I don't know of anyone with 13 month or less leases, that's a problem for GM. Also, it seems to me the vast majority of recalls don't require immediate "stop use" notices.

If I'd have returned my Neon at 35,999 miles I probably would have given it a B- or C+ at the time.

Heck...let's make it a 1 day lease. That way Cadillac can claim they have 100% satisfaction given all the people I know love their new cars driving them out of the dealership the first time.

Your statement reminds me how the Neon needed its first tow truck on the first morning in the garage at home. So let me change my grade on the Neon to C- for the first 35,999 miles. That would be more accurate. So even with a one day lease, the Neon would have gotten an F since it was un-returnable in working condition.

graphicguy

Ab348....unless an issue is particularly egregious (safety related, catching fire, renders vehicle undriveable or unsafe to drive, etc) I don't complain much.

Infiniti certainly can't do any worse than the CTS, that's for certain. And you're right, as long as it stays parked at the dealership, it can't hurt anyone, nor send me to my maker in a fiery blaze.

andres3

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for. .

Does this mean my Dual turntable and Shure cartridge along with my Les Elgart LPs may be a goldmine in a short time? I've kept them so long they're valuable again? What about my AR-3a's?

IMID....you might be surprised. Those Dual Turntables (and assuming with the Shure M95ed cartridge) were the stalwarts of vinyl play. You could spend more, but it was debateable if other turntables were better. Depending on condition, they worth more than you paid for them....probably a lot more.

Can't help you with Les Elgart. Count Basie, Buddy Rich, Nelson Riddle, Benny Goodman...all those guys were the surperstars at the height of swing.

More modern big bands....Big Bad VooDoo Daddy, Brian Setzer, maybe a couple of others are the equivalents, today.

I just sold about 300 CDs to half Price books, as I have most all of it burned into iTunes. The only CDs I kept were the SACDs, DVD-Audio and some out of print music.

I just got my first turntable outside of my parent's home last year (and the one back home wasn't mine anyway). I went modern, the Pro-Ject seemed to get top notch reviews for a moderately priced turntable. Was said to put all the money into sound quality, and no frills (nothing is automatic; no usb connection).

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

Here is my take on "driving dynamics". It's meaningless if the drivers skill is not up to the dynamics of the car, and let's face it most drivers skills aren't up that high. I would say that for the vast majority of drivers in an emergency situation would do as well in a Chevy as they would an Audi.

That's not the point. People buy 70 inch TVs when they can get by with a 40 inch. They may also spring for HD TV even though they could watch regular TV. The reason, it brings them more enjoyment! Why get a Sonata when you could be driving a Fiat 500?

Why drive the Sonata over the Fiat 500, well if you have more than one passenger you would. Also there is a reason they call them Fit It Again Tony.

My point is that once the cars capabilities start to exceed the drivers ability then driving dynamics becomes meaningless. It is like installing an elevator in a single story house.

houdini1

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

So if GG got a 12-month lease on his CTS, the car would have received an A. But since I don't know of anyone with 13 month or less leases, that's a problem for GM. Also, it seems to me the vast majority of recalls don't require immediate "stop use" notices.

If I'd have returned my Neon at 35,999 miles I probably would have given it a B- or C+ at the time.

Heck...let's make it a 1 day lease. That way Cadillac can claim they have 100% satisfaction given all the people I know love their new cars driving them out of the dealership the first time.

Your statement reminds me how the Neon needed its first tow truck on the first morning in the garage at home. So let me change my grade on the Neon to C- for the first 35,999 miles. That would be more accurate. So even with a one day lease, the Neon would have gotten an F since it was un-returnable in working condition.

Lol, I didn't even make it home in 1987 in my spanking new 1987 Sterling (remember those). Air conditioning went out on the way home. Acura Legend platform and engine and transmission so what could go wrong. Answer is just about anything else, especially electrical. The car looked great and drove great, but niggling electrical glitches ruined it for me. Kept it about a year.

andres3

houdini1 said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

So if GG got a 12-month lease on his CTS, the car would have received an A. But since I don't know of anyone with 13 month or less leases, that's a problem for GM. Also, it seems to me the vast majority of recalls don't require immediate "stop use" notices.

If I'd have returned my Neon at 35,999 miles I probably would have given it a B- or C+ at the time.

Heck...let's make it a 1 day lease. That way Cadillac can claim they have 100% satisfaction given all the people I know love their new cars driving them out of the dealership the first time.

Your statement reminds me how the Neon needed its first tow truck on the first morning in the garage at home. So let me change my grade on the Neon to C- for the first 35,999 miles. That would be more accurate. So even with a one day lease, the Neon would have gotten an F since it was un-returnable in working condition.

Lol, I didn't even make it home in 1987 in my spanking new 1987 Sterling (remember those). Air conditioning went out on the way home. Acura Legend platform and engine and transmission so what could go wrong. Answer is just about anything else, especially electrical. The car looked great and drove great, but niggling electrical glitches ruined it for me. Kept it about a year.

The AC kept you from making it home, or you just drove it back to the dealer before getting home? I remember when the Neon AC seized up and smoke started coming out of the front of the car. After a few restarts and the same thing happening I figured it out and turned the AC off; problem solved, but AC is mandatory in hot CA.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

Here is my take on "driving dynamics". It's meaningless if the drivers skill is not up to the dynamics of the car, and let's face it most drivers skills aren't up that high. I would say that for the vast majority of drivers in an emergency situation would do as well in a Chevy as they would an Audi.

Interesting point. I wonder if an expert driver in a hooptie would fare better than an average driver in a performance car.

I have left a few "performance" cars behind on twisty roads in my Sebring, an Audi just this weekend. It's all proper driving techniques and knowing your and your cars limits. I know people that couldn't take a 90 degree turn faster than 5MPH regardless of the car they are driving and others that could make a Yugo do it at 30.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

Here is my take on "driving dynamics". It's meaningless if the drivers skill is not up to the dynamics of the car, and let's face it most drivers skills aren't up that high. I would say that for the vast majority of drivers in an emergency situation would do as well in a Chevy as they would an Audi.

Interesting point. I wonder if an expert driver in a hooptie would fare better than an average driver in a performance car.

I have left a few "performance" cars behind on twisty roads in my Sebring, an Audi just this weekend. It's all proper driving techniques and knowing your and your cars limits. I know people that couldn't take a 90 degree turn faster than 5MPH regardless of the car they are driving and others that could make a Yugo do it at 30.

While that is true that many drivers don't even know the limits of their vehicle, and therefore never get anywhere near the ballpark of the car's limits, it is also true that in an emergency situation, that same type of driver, when panicked, will finally learn that you can't turn a tall SUV on a dime 90 degrees at 60 MPH, and they will learn this lesson of limits by having the vehicle upside down, or on its side, or in a ditch somewhere.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

Here is my take on "driving dynamics". It's meaningless if the drivers skill is not up to the dynamics of the car, and let's face it most drivers skills aren't up that high. I would say that for the vast majority of drivers in an emergency situation would do as well in a Chevy as they would an Audi.

That's not the point. People buy 70 inch TVs when they can get by with a 40 inch. They may also spring for HD TV even though they could watch regular TV. The reason, it brings them more enjoyment! Why get a Sonata when you could be driving a Fiat 500?

Why drive the Sonata over the Fiat 500, well if you have more than one passenger you would. Also there is a reason they call them Fit It Again Tony.

My point is that once the cars capabilities start to exceed the drivers ability then driving dynamics becomes meaningless. It is like installing an elevator in a single story house.

False analogy. It's like installing a high speed silent smooth elevator in a three story house

imidazol97

houdini1 said:

Lol, I didn't even make it home in 1987 in my spanking new 1987 Sterling (remember those). Air conditioning went out on the way home. Acura Legend platform and engine and transmission so what could go wrong. Answer is just about anything else, especially electrical. The car looked great and drove great, but niggling electrical glitches ruined it for me. Kept it about a year.

I had to go look up "Sterling." Couldn't recall.
The Wiki statement "a division of the Rover car company of the UK" pretty much says it all.

uplanderguy

My '90 Corsica and '97 Cavalier were both 5-speeds. All the others were automatics.

ab348

graphicguy said:

Infiniti certainly can't do any worse than the CTS, that's for certain.

Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet...

coldinohio

just sold old Linn turntable; still have LP's; no room for all the stuff

stickguy

I still have one of these in the basement. Not sure what cartridge is on it, but still in the original box complete with packing blocks! Not sure when I bought it, but somewhere in the late 80's I think. Maybe early 90's. Made lots of cassette mix tapes off this baby!

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=Technics&model=SL-QD33

Make an offer, and I will even throw in my diskwasher kit. Remember those? Though after now looking for a picture, apparently they still make them!

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RD-1006-Discwasher-Record-RD-1046/dp/B01D3JM93K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487897563&sr=8-2&keywords=discwasher+d4+vinyl+record+cleaner

tjc78

graphicguy said:

TJC.....Not sure what AVR or Pre-Processor you have in your system, but check to see if it supports Bluetooth, or even WiFi. I know the Pioneer Elite AVR I have supports wireless connection of my iTunes library. However, if you're looking for something to stream in a specific room, I have this in my bedroom. B&O Beo Play S3 https://www.beoplay.com/products/beoplays3 List is $300, but I've seen a Groupon floating around to buy it for $130. By far, the best sounding small Bluetooth speaker I've ever heard....that includes the $300+ ones from Bose, JBL, UE, Beats, etc. Hope that helps.

I like that B&O, nice piece. My wife bought my a Bose version that I know she shelled out some bucks for. We use it outside mostly. My receiver is an aging piece I just can't seem to part with (Yamaha RX-V1) so no wireless. Here is one option I'm considering, https://www.crutchfield.com/S-0SCTJaoexSv/p_532BTA10/Harman-Kardon-BTA-10.html. For the price it would be hard to go wrong. I need to look and see if they have one that has a Digital output, the Yamaha has a really good D/A converter that I'm sure would yield better sound.

That RX-V1 was top of the line, at the time (thinking early '00s?). Matter of fact, that piece was something of a legend in HT circles back then. I undersand your unwillingness to part with it. Hard to go wrong with that HK BTA receiver. Put it in the audio chain and let me know how it works. I tend to have my iPhone with me throughout the house. So, that means having a Bluetooth speaker is the rooms I frequent most since 90% of the time I'm playing music, listening to an audio book, or listening to a podcast stored on the phone. Main listening area (and HT room) has all the rest of the gear. Just bought a turntable at an estate sale a month or so ago. Guy was widower, living alone, getting ready to move to assisted living. Had a NICE stereo set up with all MacIntosh Electronics, a Nakimichi Dragon Cassette player/recorder, a REVOX Reel-to-reel, a Thorens turntable (which I snagged). Apparently, he had some electrostatic speakers (assuming Magnepan) that one of the relatives stole.....er......inherited. I tried to buy the entire package but was way off on the electronics, as that stuff brought insane prices. Surprised I got the turntable for a couple hundred given how popular vinyl is now, and how much the rest of the gear sold for. Talked to him briefly. He had Alzheimers and would go in and out of knowing what you (or he) was saying. His daughter was close by and kept reminding him of what the conversation's topic was as we spoke. Apparently, he had a vinyl collection that numbered over 1,000 (someone got a gold mine with that), that was bought in its entirety. He had a bunch of reel-to-reel tapes that essentially was a back up of all his vinyl. He used cassettes in his car. Seemed like a nice man. Sorry to see the state he was in.

Nice grab on the Thorens TT.  

I just love the sound and effortless power of the RX-V1.  You can watch a movie at THX levels and it barely gets warm.  There are times I think of replacing it but it does everything so well.  The only thing I really miss on it, compared to new gear is HDMI switching.  

I think I bought it in 2002 or so.  eBay find (brand new) for much less than retail. 

graphicguy

Andres3....those ProJect turntables are great. Everything you need in one, and nothing you don't.

Houdini....I remember those "Sterlings". The ONLY dealership in Cincinnati was right next to a Saab dealership. There has to be some karma in that.

Anyway, beautiful cars and supposedly a nicer version of the Acura Legend. I heard someone call Sterling the "Yugo of luxury cars". Kind of sums it up.

TJC....IIRC, that Yamaha AVR weighed a ton, too....let me know how you like that HK Bluetooth link. Sounds like something I might be interested in.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

I still have one of these in the basement. Not sure what cartridge is on it, but still in the original box complete with packing blocks! Not sure when I bought it, but somewhere in the late 80's I think. Maybe early 90's. Made lots of cassette mix tapes off this baby!

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=Technics&model=SL-QD33

Make an offer, and I will even throw in my diskwasher kit. Remember those? Though after now looking for a picture, apparently they still make them!

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RD-1006-Discwasher-Record-RD-1046/dp/B01D3JM93K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487897563&sr=8-2&keywords=discwasher+d4+vinyl+record+cleaner

Techniqs TT was another ubiquitous piece of audio gear (and a good one). I think I went through 2 or 3 of those "Discwashers". I still have one, but it's not made by RCA. It's the original.

stickguy

mine is as old as the TT most likely. It's the real deal!

ab348

I went thru a phase around 2006/07 when I got into vintage audio gear. I was always a silver-era Pioneer fan and ended up with 3 of their receivers: a SX-880, a SX-3800 and a real battleship, a SX-3900, plus a few turntables and cassette/8-track decks and speakers. I find I don't use them much any more but might get back into it some day. It does take up a lot of space though, and I find the convenience of digital music trumps the experience of a lot of this stuff.

fintail

No doubt Vettel or Kimi could beat me in Camry even if I was in an E63. But I think some here are confusing driving dynamics with performance potential. As you know, driving dynamics apply not just at the limit, but when driving within the (often arbitrary) limits, with no aggression. Being able to be comfortable on our decaying roads without being a wallowy marshmallow is also a part of driving dynamics.

andres3 said:

While that is true that many drivers don't even know the limits of their vehicle, and therefore never get anywhere near the ballpark of the car's limits, it is also true that in an emergency situation, that same type of driver, when panicked, will finally learn that you can't turn a tall SUV on a dime 90 degrees at 60 MPH, and they will learn this lesson of limits by having the vehicle upside down, or on its side, or in a ditch somewhere.

andres3

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

Infiniti certainly can't do any worse than the CTS, that's for certain.

Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet...

I think we should take bets on GG's Infiniti outperforming the CTS. I think I'd give 100:1 odds on the Q50 outperforming the CTS reliability and durability.

houdini1

andres3 said:

houdini1 said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

So if GG got a 12-month lease on his CTS, the car would have received an A. But since I don't know of anyone with 13 month or less leases, that's a problem for GM. Also, it seems to me the vast majority of recalls don't require immediate "stop use" notices.

If I'd have returned my Neon at 35,999 miles I probably would have given it a B- or C+ at the time.

Heck...let's make it a 1 day lease. That way Cadillac can claim they have 100% satisfaction given all the people I know love their new cars driving them out of the dealership the first time.

Your statement reminds me how the Neon needed its first tow truck on the first morning in the garage at home. So let me change my grade on the Neon to C- for the first 35,999 miles. That would be more accurate. So even with a one day lease, the Neon would have gotten an F since it was un-returnable in working condition.

Lol, I didn't even make it home in 1987 in my spanking new 1987 Sterling (remember those). Air conditioning went out on the way home. Acura Legend platform and engine and transmission so what could go wrong. Answer is just about anything else, especially electrical. The car looked great and drove great, but niggling electrical glitches ruined it for me. Kept it about a year.

The AC kept you from making it home, or you just drove it back to the dealer before getting home? I remember when the Neon AC seized up and smoke started coming out of the front of the car. After a few restarts and the same thing happening I figured it out and turned the AC off; problem solved, but AC is mandatory in hot CA.

andres3 said:

houdini1 said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

@graphicguy CTS is an example of a bad car.

To my knowledge he did not have a single complaint about the car in his first 13 months of ownership. The only issue I remember him mentioning was the recall.

There's a lot to be said for acquiring new vehicles on 24-month leases.

So if GG got a 12-month lease on his CTS, the car would have received an A. But since I don't know of anyone with 13 month or less leases, that's a problem for GM. Also, it seems to me the vast majority of recalls don't require immediate "stop use" notices.

If I'd have returned my Neon at 35,999 miles I probably would have given it a B- or C+ at the time.

Heck...let's make it a 1 day lease. That way Cadillac can claim they have 100% satisfaction given all the people I know love their new cars driving them out of the dealership the first time.

Your statement reminds me how the Neon needed its first tow truck on the first morning in the garage at home. So let me change my grade on the Neon to C- for the first 35,999 miles. That would be more accurate. So even with a one day lease, the Neon would have gotten an F since it was un-returnable in working condition.

Lol, I didn't even make it home in 1987 in my spanking new 1987 Sterling (remember those). Air conditioning went out on the way home. Acura Legend platform and engine and transmission so what could go wrong. Answer is just about anything else, especially electrical. The car looked great and drove great, but niggling electrical glitches ruined it for me. Kept it about a year.

The AC kept you from making it home, or you just drove it back to the dealer before getting home? I remember when the Neon AC seized up and smoke started coming out of the front of the car. After a few restarts and the same thing happening I figured it out and turned the AC off; problem solved, but AC is mandatory in hot CA.

Car ran fine, so I just turned around and went back to dealer. Took them about 3 hours to get it to work.

houdini1

imidazol97 said:

houdini1 said:

Lol, I didn't even make it home in 1987 in my spanking new 1987 Sterling (remember those). Air conditioning went out on the way home. Acura Legend platform and engine and transmission so what could go wrong. Answer is just about anything else, especially electrical. The car looked great and drove great, but niggling electrical glitches ruined it for me. Kept it about a year.

I had to go look up "Sterling." Couldn't recall.
The Wiki statement "a division of the Rover car company of the UK" pretty much says it all.

Yep, pretty much.

graphicguy

AB...I've liked Pioneer audio gear for a long time. In my HT, I have an SC99 AVR (not sure what the equivalent is in Canada) that was a replacement for an older SC09. I have one of their blue ray players, that at the time, played all types of discs and was the best player on the market. It is waiting for me to summons it for service again.

All of that equipment was robust and never caused me an iota of problems. I'd hang onto yours. My guess is it still works and works well.

murphydog

28firefighter said:

If it's her car, she should make the decision.U

Happy wife, happy life. Rookie if he is arguing about it...

Oh, I agree, but he is still learning. This is wife number 3 for him...

isellhondas4

Good bye.

Once again, and for the last time, Edmunds has seen fit to forget who I am. My auto fill that has worked for nearly 20 years no longer works and when I click on "Forgot Password" it remembers me as isellhondas4.

I suspect that I have angered one of the Moderators and this is their way of discouraging me from being a member. No problem. I understand.

I will miss this forum where I feel many of you have become "friends" over they years.

I do appreciate the banter over the years and I feel that I have learned much from many of you.

A special appreciation to Mr. Shiftright who has been here from the beginning and is a major asset to the Edmunds organization.

With many regrets..I am gone.

Craig

carnaught

isell...please don't leave here, especially for what might be a software glitch. Come on man, hang in there; I think, as before, it'll be solved.

(Please write down your pw, and save somewhere for future use.)

stickguy

No one is banning you. This has to be a PC issue on your end. Just need the email and PW that was reset. If you used the 4 monicker with the same email might be causing your problem.

Besides, everyone still knows who you are, and we don't mind the iterations!

driver100

Yeh isell....we don't really care if you are isell1, 4 or 348.

Change to isoldhondas and make your password 1234.

Don't give up without trying...no one is sabotaging you, there are more important issues going on.

Michaell

Craig, as a moderator, we wouldn't do something that sinister to keep you from accessing the forums. We have banned users in the past, and they've always been accompanied by an email explaining why we took that action.

As @stickguy pointed out, this is likely something to do with the browser settings on your computer. Any chance you have a second computer you could try?

andres3

Michaell said:

Craig, as a moderator, we wouldn't do something that sinister to keep you from accessing the forums. We have banned users in the past, and they've always been accompanied by an email explaining why we took that action.

As @stickguy pointed out, this is likely something to do with the browser settings on your computer. Any chance you have a second computer you could try?

Yeah, the way he writes you'd think he slept with a Moderator's wife or something, and thinks he's got some kind of retribution coming his way!

driver100

GG, I was wondering about something. I have tried looking up recall notices for a 2016 Cadillac CTS, and I can't find any that mention a gas line harness or anything like that.

If I check the Cadillac site I can check by VIN number. I don't have your VIN so I can't check, but it might be interesting for you to see if it comes up;
CADILLAC RECALL NOTICES

Maybe your car was recalled, or maybe they just call it a recall because they get dinged less for a recall than a major fault.

abacomike

isellhondas4 said:

Good bye. Once again, and for the last time, Edmunds has seen fit to forget who I am. My auto fill that has worked for nearly 20 years no longer works and when I click on "Forgot Password" it remembers me as isellhondas4. I suspect that I have angered one of the Moderators and this is their way of discouraging me from being a member. No problem. I understand. I will miss this forum where I feel many of you have become "friends" over they years. I do appreciate the banter over the years and I feel that I have learned much from many of you. A special appreciation to Mr. Shiftright who has been here from the beginning and is a major asset to the Edmunds organization. With many regrets..I am gone. Craig

Craig, you know it has nothing to do with the moderators.  It's their website managers and technical subcontractors.  Just let Shifty know and I am sure they will have it fixed.  No need to get frazzled - it is not personal. 

driver100

Michaell said:

Craig, as a moderator, we wouldn't do something that sinister to keep you from accessing the forums. We have banned users in the past, and they've always been accompanied by an email explaining why we took that action.

As @stickguy pointed out, this is likely something to do with the browser settings on your computer. Any chance you have a second computer you could try?

Everything is a conspiracy theory these days. If you can't trust an Edmund's moderator than who can you trust?

driver100

abacomike said:

isellhondas4 said:

Good bye.

Once again, and for the last time, Edmunds has seen fit to forget who I am. My auto fill that has worked for nearly 20 years no longer works and when I click on "Forgot Password" it remembers me as isellhondas4.

I suspect that I have angered one of the Moderators and this is their way of discouraging me from being a member. No problem. I understand.

I will miss this forum where I feel many of you have become "friends" over they years.

I do appreciate the banter over the years and I feel that I have learned much from many of you.

A special appreciation to Mr. Shiftright who has been here from the beginning and is a major asset to the Edmunds organization.

With many regrets..I am gone.

Craig

Craig, you know it has nothing to do with the moderators.  It's their website managers and technical subcontractors.  Just let Shifty know and I am sure they will have it fixed.  No need to get frazzled - it is not personal. 

I was just about to ask where you have been!

abacomike

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

isellhondas4 said:

Good bye.

Once again, and for the last time, Edmunds has seen fit to forget who I am. My auto fill that has worked for nearly 20 years no longer works and when I click on "Forgot Password" it remembers me as isellhondas4.

I suspect that I have angered one of the Moderators and this is their way of discouraging me from being a member. No problem. I understand.

I will miss this forum where I feel many of you have become "friends" over they years.

I do appreciate the banter over the years and I feel that I have learned much from many of you.

A special appreciation to Mr. Shiftright who has been here from the beginning and is a major asset to the Edmunds organization.

With many regrets..I am gone.

Craig

Craig, you know it has nothing to do with the moderators.  It's their website managers and technical subcontractors.  Just let Shifty know and I am sure they will have it fixed.  No need to get frazzled - it is not personal. 

I was just about to ask where you have been!

I monitor the forum but sometimes, I have nothing to say or contribute.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

isellhondas4 said:

Good bye.

Once again, and for the last time, Edmunds has seen fit to forget who I am. My auto fill that has worked for nearly 20 years no longer works and when I click on "Forgot Password" it remembers me as isellhondas4.

I suspect that I have angered one of the Moderators and this is their way of discouraging me from being a member. No problem. I understand.

I will miss this forum where I feel many of you have become "friends" over they years.

I do appreciate the banter over the years and I feel that I have learned much from many of you.

A special appreciation to Mr. Shiftright who has been here from the beginning and is a major asset to the Edmunds organization.

With many regrets..I am gone.

Craig

Craig, you know it has nothing to do with the moderators.  It's their website managers and technical subcontractors.  Just let Shifty know and I am sure they will have it fixed.  No need to get frazzled - it is not personal. 

I was just about to ask where you have been!

I monitor the forum but sometimes, I have nothing to say or contribute.

That doesn't stop some people