Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

fintail said:

I like the wheels on that Pony. Of course it has BC plates. Canada also got things like Skoda and Lada never sold south of the border (for political reasons no doubt) that were probably even cheaper, and in the case of the latter, no more reliable,

driver100 said:

I was checking wikipedia about the Excel:

I don't think those wheels were originals, I don't remember them looking that good. I had a cousin who bought a Pony and raved about it.....for the first year, then he dumped it as soon as possible.

Canada doesn't seem to restrict trading with other countries as much. There were a few Lada's, a few Hyundai models, and the Skodas. There was also a TVR sports car called The Griffith.,

Some enthusiasts love the Lada Nivia;


The Griffith;

andres3

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

It would depend on how they treated me (their customer) when those problems occurred with their junky product. Also, how did they advertise the "Excel" at the time? Did they claim it "was all-new, and different from the junk they had made before?" That was a problem for me, the Big 3 kept constantly lying about improving and changing when the same old junk came off their lines year after year, decade after decade.

The Excel was the first car they ever sold in the US.

You never get a 2nd chance to make a first impression (said someone).

andres3

thebean said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

Thanks, TJC. I'm determined this time. I know it's a David vs Goliath scenario. But, their treatment of me has been my motivator. GM is trying to make this as difficult as possible. I was thinking last night, what a miserable job it must be to be a Cadillac Customer Service rep. They are neither focosed on the Customer, or Service! Not sure what it is they do.

Got a call from the dealership this a.m. (General Manager) Not sure what GM has told them, but they want their loaner back. Not sure what Cadillac told GM, but he acted like he didn't know what was going on. He said he thought I was a happy ower. Yeah....that's why I've had the loaner(s) for two months.

I know where this goes from here. Now, it really gets contentious.

If I were you at this point, I'd throw everything including the Kitchen sink at them. Maybe a few lawsuits, including a few class action start-ups against them for stealing and thieving from tax payers, for negligently managing the company and the stock fund in a way that led to tremendous (about $16 Billion depending on how fake the news is and who you ask) in losses for taxpayers.

Also, I wouldn't return the loaner unless they have a safely "running" equivalent car for me. I don't remember reading (at least in CA law) anything that should penalize a customer for seeking a lemon buyback refund.

You're a taxpayer, so why don't you file a class action lawsuit against them?  This would seem to be right up your alley.

No thank you. I resolved long ago that I'd cut my losses and run, not walk away from the Big 3. The only way they are getting money from me is by siphoning my tax dollars, they will not get it from selling product, replacement parts for that product, and service for that product.

The only way I've joined a class action lawsuit is when it is as easy as filling out a single form with my name and signature (and not too much else), and it is sent to me, so that all I have to do is mail it back. More chance it'll get a response if an envelope with prepaid postage is included in the package. It's OK if just a blank envelope is provided though, better than nothing.

The latest award was $.01 to my wife from AT&T for one of the million shady things they've done. We didn't cash that check. One time I got lucky and got a rather surprising significant amount. The VW TDI thing was technically a class action, but VW was cooperating so it was a bit different.

driver100

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I like the wheels on that Pony. Of course it has BC plates. Canada also got things like Skoda and Lada never sold south of the border (for political reasons no doubt) that were probably even cheaper, and in the case of the latter, no more reliable,

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/

I like those articles ab. It reminded me of another car I had forgot about. Does anyone remember the Daewoo?


The article was a fun reminder:
The company that relieved Hyundai from being the worst automaker in North America during the late 1990s went way under by 2002. In only five years, Daewoo had rightly earned one hell of a terrible legacy. A sales network made up of college students—“Hey, dudes! Buy my car!”—and a car line-up with more defects than an “Ernest” movie. Daewoo would eventually give America the worst automotive lineup since . . . well . . . Hyundai.

Daewoo’s entry level car was the Lanos, a car so wretched it actually exceeded the lemon-esque aura of the Hyundai Excel and Kia Sephia. After Daewoo went under, it would, to paraphrase Bill Shatner, “boldly depreciate to price levels no modern car had ever gone before.” The car offered 105 horsepower out of its 1.6L engine, but no one really cared—unless the anti-lock braking system failed. Which was often. The “Check Engine Light” came [on] standard along with interior parts that were cheaper than a Tata Nano. These days most “buy here, pay here” dealers won’t finance these cars because parts are so scarce and liability issues are so rampant

FULL ARTICLE

qbrozen

I almost bought a Daewoo. It was a Nubira Nubira wagon with a stick at a Toyota dealer. If they met my price, I probably would have wound up with it. Good thing they didn't. At that time, I was just looking for cheap and useful.

ab348

Daewoo should have been perfect for the Canadian cheapskate market. Just down the road from me was our local Daewoo dealer. I don't know who owned it but I assume it was one of the local dealer chains since they built a brand-new facility at considerable expense on one of the busiest roads around. They seemed to sell a lot of cars for a short time as I saw a lot of little Lanos hatches and Nubira sedans (a name that always sounded like a semi-dirty word to me) running around town for a while. Still see a Lanos occasionally. But when the Korean parent declared bankruptcy it all stopped. I remember cruising the lot of the VW dealer next door to the now-empty Daewoo spot and seeing this massive "DAEWOO" neon sign in the lot at the rear of the building - probably 6 feet high and over 20 feet long. It was really impressive and hopefully someone saved it. The place finally became an indy used car dealer, still is.

Going way, way back, in the mid-1960s the Nova Scotia government was trying to woo industry here and made a deal with Izusu to ship knocked-down kits of their Bellett sedan to a facility in Sydney, NS, where they would be assembled. They might have actually sold a few of them. For years I had a brochure for the car that I must have gotten at the annual winter fair where dealers used to show off their wares. I imagine a mid-60s Japanese sedan probably wasn't a lot of fun to drive, but was undoubtedly cheap. More on the story here:

http://www.oldcarscanada.com/2010/04/1965-isuzu-bellett.html

andres3

ab348 said:

Daewoo should have been perfect for the Canadian cheapskate market. Just down the road from me was our local Daewoo dealer. I don't know who owned it but I assume it was one of the local dealer chains since they built a brand-new facility at considerable expense on one of the busiest roads around. They seemed to sell a lot of cars for a short time as I saw a lot of little Lanos hatches and Nubira sedans (a name that always sounded like a semi-dirty word to me) running around town for a while. Still see a Lanos occasionally. But when the Korean parent declared bankruptcy it all stopped. I remember cruising the lot of the VW dealer next door to the now-empty Daewoo spot and seeing this massive "DAEWOO" neon sign in the lot at the rear of the building - probably 6 feet high and over 20 feet long. It was really impressive and hopefully someone saved it. The place finally became an indy used car dealer, still is.

Going way, way back, in the mid-1960s the Nova Scotia government was trying to woo industry here and made a deal with Izusu to ship knocked-down kits of their Bellett sedan to a facility in Sydney, NS, where they would be assembled. They might have actually sold a few of them. For years I had a brochure for the car that I must have gotten at the annual winter fair where dealers used to show off their wares. I imagine a mid-60s Japanese sedan probably wasn't a lot of fun to drive, but was undoubtedly cheap. More on the story here:

http://www.oldcarscanada.com/2010/04/1965-isuzu-bellett.html

Didn't GM/Chevy rebadge a couple Daewoo's into Chevy's? I think the thinking was it couldn't be any worse than what GM had done in its legacy of bad small/compact/subcompact vehicles.

stickguy

I think the late pontiac lemans compact was a rebadge daewoo. pretty sure gm bought them out

qbrozen

yes, that is what I was going to say. I think Chevy is still selling Daewoos.

andres3

So as I'm driving to work this morning I notice a recent model Silver Mercedes start to shoot sideways across the freeway (I 15 North - including 2 Fast-Track HOV Lanes). Probably from massive driver over-correction in 2 directions, but admittedly in the VERY HEAVY rain I didn't notice the car until it started shooting sideways from in front of me to the left over 3 lanes of traffic.

I see an Audi A7/S7 in the left of 2 HOV/Fast-Track Lanes and the Audi somehow manages to narrowly miss the Mercedes as it shoots by right in front of them (think emergency brake), and then at the same time, the Audi must dart right a lane as the Mercedes bounces off the center divider wall a good 10 to 15' and re-targets the Audi for collision. The Audi is saved from destruction by some terrific driving maneuvers and goes on his merry way; obviously in shock because I notice they are probably going a rather slow 55 MPH the next few minutes as I'm going the same direction but in the main 6 lanes of freeway traffic (often divided by barriers to the HOV but luckily for Mr. Mercedes he got to slow down another 3 lanes worth of width before hitting a barrier. I think he'll/she'll? be OK, but the car and the center divider barrier took a beating!

Who knows what caused this guy to so violently turn sideways? I think my theory is probably most likely, but it could also be inadequate tire maintenance, lack of quattro , and related to what I said, not knowing the limits of their vehicle. A subtle momentary feeling of hydroplaning is no reason to panic.

ab348

qbrozen said:

yes, that is what I was going to say. I think Chevy is still selling Daewoos.

It's a bit more than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Korea

driver100

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

yes, that is what I was going to say. I think Chevy is still selling Daewoos.

It's a bit more than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Korea

What a tangled web we weave. Articles about Daewoo and Isuzu were interesting reads....the auto biz isn't as easy as it sounds.

Andre, glad you missed the accidents. I noticed the roads in Florida get really slick after a dry spell and then a rain. I forget the C250 is RWD and it can launch pretty fast, but, I can feel the rear can swing out very easily too if you aren't careful.

qbrozen

You just never know.

I had an entertaining episode on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago. An 18-wheeler was coming down an entrance ramp maybe an 1/8th mile ahead of me. I had nobody around me (thankfully) and was in the middle lane. As the truck enters the highway, he turns much harder to the left than needed and begins to cross through the right lane into the middle lane. I quickly juke to the left but see, by the angle of his tires, it appears he will be continuing all the way to the left lane or possibly the barrier. As I'm standing on my brake, I make a quick course correction back to the middle lane as my Volvo screeches its tires right and then left like a slalom skier. The truck then starts to swerve right again. I quickly slalom to the right lane, again with much drama from the tires. As I see daylight up ahead and another vehicle is coming down that ramp, I gun it and squirt through. This was all a matter of maybe 10 secs, but felt far far longer, of course.

Anyway, the point to my story is that others on the road can cause you to do some really crazy stuff with your vehicle. I could have easily lost control. I believe my autocross experience saved me in this particular instance since I avoided overcorrection and held steady until the car regained traction each time.

imidazol97

@andres @qbrozen Glad you both survived the flirtation with death!

venture

qbrozen said:

You just never know.

I had an entertaining episode on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago. An 18-wheeler was coming down an entrance ramp maybe an 1/8th mile ahead of me. I had nobody around me (thankfully) and was in the middle lane. As the truck enters the highway, he turns much harder to the left than needed and begins to cross through the right lane into the middle lane. I quickly juke to the left but see, by the angle of his tires, it appears he will be continuing all the way to the left lane or possibly the barrier. As I'm standing on my brake, I make a quick course correction back to the middle lane as my Volvo screeches its tires right and then left like a slalom skier. The truck then starts to swerve right again. I quickly slalom to the right lane, again with much drama from the tires. As I see daylight up ahead and another vehicle is coming down that ramp, I gun it and squirt through. This was all a matter of maybe 10 secs, but felt far far longer, of course.

Anyway, the point to my story is that others on the road can cause you to do some really crazy stuff with your vehicle. I could have easily lost control. I believe my autocross experience saved me in this particular instance since I avoided overcorrection and held steady until the car regained traction each time.

Great googally moogally!

I've credited my previous autocross experiences for a few near hits too.

fintail

I guess now people buy Micra and Yaris. With the weather and roads in some areas, it might be smarter to buy a cheap disposable car every few years than a nicer one for longer periods.

I wouldn't be surprised if no Dacia are on the road in Canada anymore. I seea Lada Niva every now and then in BC, and one could find a Signet or Samara in Vancouver into the late 90s anyway.

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/

fintail

LeMans was a Daewoo, I think Suzuki Reno and Forenza were Daewoo, maybe Spark too?

qbrozen said:

yes, that is what I was going to say. I think Chevy is still selling Daewoos.

fintail

Yeah the US loves politically based trade policy, so long as the opposed party won't cause too much trouble

I kind of like the Niva/Cossack too, and the Signet being an old Fiat means it was at least decent enough looking.

driver100 said:

I don't think those wheels were originals, I don't remember them looking that good. I had a cousin who bought a Pony and raved about it.....for the first year, then he dumped it as soon as possible.

abacomike

Well, more tumult in my lifelong travails. It seems like God wants me to write a book or experience what Jonah experienced inside the whale - testing my faith periodically with health roadblocks. I started physical therapy today for the spur in my right heel. This therapist seems to know what he's doing - used ultrasound and then taped my foot up to my lower calf. Supposed to loosen up the tendons. I have to keep it taped until I see him again Friday afternoon. I will be seeing him twice a week. Wednesday, I have an appointment to have a battery of blood tests done to check the levels of hepatitis C viral counts. The gastroenterologist wants to start me on yet another Hep C anti viral medication for 26 weeks. The first two times I tried antiviral medicine (almost two years ago) was unsuccessful and resulted in a heart attack and then the liver cancer. Seems my primary care physician is against my going back on hep C antivirals and the gastroenterologist is pushing this. So I might seek a third opinion from the surgical team at Broward General. I just hate the blood tests - 22 vials of blood and my veins are impossible to locate. Going to be lots of fun Wednesday morning. Just very tired of surgery, therapy and being poked, not to mention CT-Scans and PET Scans. I guess it is just part of my life's trials and tribulations. Thanks for letting me vent a little!

driver100

"fi

ntail"

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/


This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

abacomike

driver100 said:

"fi

ntail" Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his. Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/ This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car. The story of the Firenza

Good article about the Firenza.  IIRC, wasn't there a Pontiac Firenza sold in the US back in the 1970's or 1980's.  I believe, at first, it was a very popular car for awhile, and then I remember problems with it and then it disappeared.  I think it was a sports car, wasn't it?

sda

Oldsmobile sold a version of the J car as the Firenza. It was nicely equipped but didn't sell well. IIRC in '85 it was offered with a V6.

andres3

imidazol97 said:

@andres @qbrozen Glad you both survived the flirtation with death!

OH, I don't think I was ever in danger. I was a nice safe spectator distance behind the 2 vehicles involved, by about, oh... maybe 200 feet at least. I was in the main traffic lanes (5 lanes wide on I 15 North; maybe 6 at times), and this Mercedes shot left into the HOV lanes (there are 2; for 7 or 8 total) which are normally separated by a barrier as well, but he was lucky at this particular spot it was near a merging area and he got 3 more lanes of width to help slow down before hitting the barrier.

Of course if my timing and location was different, I could have been scared to death rather than just a spectator. I'm sure the guy in the A7/S7 was more shocked than me. He couldn't have been missed by more than a couple feet.

I think Audi needs to invent "shields" ala Star Trek as a safety feature. IF someone invades your space, they get electrocuted and shocked back into their own space bouncing off your force field without having to bounce off your car.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

"fi

ntail"

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/


This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

They called it the FIREnza and it caught fire? Good marketing.

uplanderguy

That isn't at all the Firenza that sda mentioned above. It was a version of the Cavalier.

iluvmysephia1

A look at the 2017 Toyota Yaris iA interior. That console controller would be a fun new toy.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

"fi

ntail"

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/


This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

Good article about the Firenza.  IIRC, wasn't there a Pontiac Firenza sold in the US back in the 1970's or 1980's.  I believe, at first, it was a very popular car for awhile, and then I remember problems with it and then it disappeared.  I think it was a sports car, wasn't it?

SDA is right, Olds Firenza, one of the J cars. I wonder how many J car buyers GM lost?




The Pontiac Solstice might be what you were thinking of Mike....another winner!

bwia

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

Just came back from the quick market (UDF) and was listening to Detroit radio. They had a program about self-driving cars with an expert from MSU (Michigan State University). He was very good and probably involved in development but it seemed like 1956 all over again with the Popular Science, Popular Mechanix, and there was a third magazine. They were all predicting cars that drove themselves all around by some date, often 50 years in the future.

Before your time for many of you here but it would be interesting reading with all the optimism in the articles.

All I can think about is what if the program operating the vehicles and the intervehicular communication goes to a blue screen of death a la Microsoft operating systems in the recent past?

I was watching CNBC the other day (the recent market rise has made me richer than jmonroe) and they had a commentator say that self driving trucks were only 5 years away. Made sense as there is a tremendous shortage of CDL A drivers in the country and shortages beget technology.

I share your concern for tech failures on a huge hunk of moving metal. The blue screen of death or the orange pumpkin of doom thrown from an overpass could cause catastrophic problems.

Speaking of self-driving trucks--I was wondering whether these self-driving technologies work equally well in forward as well as in reverse driving? In all the videos I have seen, the vehicles seem to be going only in the forward direction. Hmm, has this potential hurdle been addressed by automakers?

ab348

driver100 said:

This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

Come, come, Driver, you're starting to sound like our speed-crazed mutable friend from California. A British car from the early '70s? Name one that wasn't problematic. Besides, I doubt that anyone who was around then and bought one of these things (which were well-known almost right from the start as huge problems, just like the Ford Cortina and Austin Marina of the same vintage sold here) are still making the connection when they go to buy cars, assuming they are still licensed to drive. What's next, an analysis of the problems with the "copper-cooled" Chevrolets of the 1920s as similar GM-bashing rhetoric?

uplanderguy

He's talking about the Fiero by Pontiac.

uplanderguy

I always like to say, "When I was a kid, if I heard a guy say he wouldn't buy a new Mustang because his Model A was a lemon, I'd have said, 'what a crank'." But that kind of thing happens even more today I think, LOL!

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

Come, come, Driver, you're starting to sound like our speed-crazed mutable friend from California. A British car from the early '70s? Name one that wasn't problematic. Besides, I doubt that anyone who was around then and bought one of these things (which were well-known almost right from the start as huge problems, just like the Ford Cortina and Austin Marina of the same vintage sold here) are still making the connection when they go to buy cars, assuming they are still licensed to drive. What's next, an analysis of the problems with the "copper-cooled" Chevrolets of the 1920s as similar GM-bashing rhetoric?

It was sold under the Pontiac name. I didn't go out to bash GM, I just started reading about it and thought,about the poor devils who bought one of these, and how could they ever buy another GM product? All brands probably have their share of outright lemons, but it seems GM has had more than their fair share, and the way they treat their customers doesn't seem to have changed from these examples to the way GG has been treated. They first cut them off, shut them up, and then ignore them like they don't exist.

Here is the brief story about the Firenza experience:
the upcoming 2.3litre version with emission equipment for the FE range.

Launched as a 1971 model year car the HC was called Firenza regardless of body configuration. It was available as a Standard 2 door Saloon (dropped for 1972), an SL 2 and 4 door Saloon, an SL 2 door Coupe and an SL 3 door Estate – which actually looked good with its built in roof bars! The marketing slogan was “The tough little fun car from General Motors” and a big play was made of all the testing that had been done to ensure the car was right, even the inside of the brochure showed a man in a white coat with a clip board ticking off everything was right. The trouble was everything was not all right.
As anyone who has experience of the Vauxhall slant four engine they are very “twitchy” and need careful attention to
give their best, the trouble was saddled with the earliest and most primitive emissions equipment available the Canadian Firenza didn’t stand a chance and often ran like a dog almost as soon as they left the dealer’s forecourt. Non starts, misfiring, oil leaks, electrical faults, slow performance, especially the automatic, cold running engines and therefore poor interior heating, valves sooting up, plug fouling, 15mpg fuel economy, the list went on and on. Pontiac dealers were overwhelmed with warranty claims.

I don't go out of my way to bash GM. Like I say, all companies have lemons, but GM has more than their share, and the way they treat their customers is the real story....they leave them hanging.

The Full Story of the British made Canadian Firenza

houdini1

Concerning gbrozen's near miss. A cautionary tale indeed. When I read things like this, I think, what if this had happened to a 16 year old who just got their license. Or even worse, my wife or one of my kids. Driving is a very dangerous activity.

driver100

uplanderguy said:

He's talking about the Fiero by Pontiac.

That is it!

graphicguy

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

One of the drivers (one guy dropped another guy off to pick it up) was one of the service writers. When he came to my door to get the keys, he appologized for all the craziness I have been put through (his word..."craziness"). He said this week is his last week at the dealership. He said he really needed to do something else.

I didn't really get into it with him, but I did wish him well. He and I had spent quite a bit of time talking in the past. He knew of ALL the troubles I had with Cadillac.

Anyway, he said there were things going on in the background that I should know, but wasn't privy to. OK, now I'm intrigued.

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution. This was only supposed to be done IF CUSTOMERS KNEW ABOUT IT AND COMPLAINED. Problem was, the zip ties wouldn't hold and would melt or rub away, also. The whole wiring harness issue was a result of fitting the new 8-speed trans that was built by GM and rerouting some of the exhaust (which resulted in a lower HP rating for the 2.0t).

When I asked him why they told me, instead of waiting for me to complain, he said he raised the issue given the amount of trouble I had with Cadillac. He felt he was being pro-active and doing "what was right". He didn't say it, but I got the impression he may have caught some hell over letting me know of the issue in my car.

Anyway, Cadillac did indeed tell the dealership to "rush" the repair with zip ties given the amount of time it was in their service bay. And, that the authorization to complete the zip tie repair, would only pay for ONE drivetrain removal and insertion. That tells me they did not want me to know about the permanent fix because of the unavailability of parts.

Problem was, the zip ties only held for about ¼ mile as I drove the "repaired" CTS away from the dealership. Further, they couldn't do the reinstall of the drivetrain correctly because GM didn't alott them enough hours. He said he wasn't sure what happened regarding that, but the result was a rush job (that took nearly two months) that resulted in me returning the CTS to the dealership immediately.

Now, the same parts (the ones I was originally told wouldn't be avialble to perhaps well into March, are still aren't available.

He said the dealership doesn't know what to do with my car. They can't fix it. GM is telling them to keep quiet about it. He's leaving the dealership, so didn't care, but thought I should know.

I didn't think GM could be any more despicable in my eyes, but they've succeeded in stooping even lower.

Meanwhile, the BBB and Cadillac Customer Service are sitting on their hands.

GM bashing? Better believe it. Deserved? Absolutely!

driver100

If my parents had bought a Firenza, and it had the problems those cars had, and if it was worth almost nothing after they drove it off the lot, I think it would have made a big impression on me.

I once mentioned a friend who bought a 70s Nova. Every time it rained the trunk filled up with water. He took it back to tell the salesman about the problem. The salesman put his arm over my friends shoulder and said, "Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy, just don't leave the car out in the rain". He never bought another new GM again, he believed auto makers were corrupt.

houdini1

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

One of the drivers (one guy dropped another guy off to pick it up) was one of the service writers. When he came to my door to get the keys, he appologized for all the craziness I have been put through (his word..."craziness"). He said this week is his last week at the dealership. He said he really needed to do something else.

I didn't really get into it with him, but I did wish him well. He and I had spent quite a bit of time talking in the past. He knew of ALL the troubles I had with Cadillac.

Anyway, he said there were things going on in the background that I should know, but wasn't privy to. OK, now I'm intrigued.

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution. This was only supposed to be done IF CUSTOMERS KNEW ABOUT IT AND COMPLAINED. Problem was, the zip ties wouldn't hold and would melt or rub away, also. The whole wiring harness issue was a result of fitting the new 8-speed trans that was built by GM and rerouting some of the exhaust (which resulted in a lower HP rating for the 2.0t).

When I asked him why they told me, instead of waiting for me to complain, he said he raised the issue given the amount of trouble I had with Cadillac. He felt he was being pro-active and doing "what was right". He didn't say it, but I got the impression he may have caught some hell over letting me know of the issue in my car.

Anyway, Cadillac did indeed tell the dealership to "rush" the repair with zip ties given the amount of time it was in their service bay. And, that the authorization to complete the zip tie repair, would only pay for ONE drivetrain removal and insertion. That tells me they did not want me to know about the permanent fix because of the unavailability of parts.

Problem was, the zip ties only held for about ¼ mile as I drove the "repaired" CTS away from the dealership. Further, they couldn't do the reinstall of the drivetrain correctly because GM didn't alott them enough hours. He said he wasn't sure what happened regarding that, but the result was a rush job (that took nearly two months) that resulted in me returning the CTS to the dealership immediately.

Now, the same parts (the ones I was originally told wouldn't be avialble to perhaps well into March, are still aren't available.

He said the dealership doesn't know what to do with my car. They can't fix it. GM is telling them to keep quiet about it. He's leaving the dealership, so didn't care, but thought I should know.

I didn't think GM could be any more despicable in my eyes, but they've succeeded in stooping even lower.

Meanwhile, the BBB and Cadillac Customer Service are sitting on their hands.

GM bashing? Better believe it. Deserved? Absolutely!

I hope you got his name and contact info. !!

driver100

GG, I think Scott Pelley of 60 Minutes should get on this story. It is an eye opener and does explain things nicely.....I think they had to tell you about the problem since the car had already started burning up.

GM would have been smart to quietly take the car back and get you into another car, but they held out to the bitter end.

The Lemon Law is pretty weak really, almost impossible to qualify, and you are dealing with such underhanded tactics....Good Luck,

ab348

driver100 said:

All brands probably have their share of outright lemons, but it seems GM has had more than their fair share, and the way they treat their customers doesn't seem to have changed from these examples to the way GG has been treated. They first cut them off, shut them up, and then ignore them like they don't exist.

Well, both you and GG had Audis that were problematic. You took a haircut on yours while GG, I believe, did one of his buybacks. He seems much more tolerant than you because he was looking at them again along with other brands he has had bad experiences with in the past. It's taken 4 Caddys for him to swear them off.

You just got to learn to let go of things, bro.

uplanderguy

Our '73 Nova leaked water in the trunk when new (sticker price $2,625). I think it was chronic with the '73 taillight redesign. Water came around the dual lights on each side. My Dad ended up fixing it himself.

I can remember my uncle's '71 or '72 Duster he bought new near where they lived in Howard Beach, NY. The differential made the most annoying noise; not normal. Dealer could never "hear it", LOL. They lived with it. I don't remember that it ever "went", but I'm not sure.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Our '73 Nova leaked water in the trunk when new (sticker price $2,625). I think it was chronic with the '73 taillight redesign. My Dad ended up fixing it himself.

Our '74 Maverick did the same. The right-side trunk dropoff filled with water after every rain/car wash, along with the left side quarter-panel dogleg. Dad fixed the trunk issue by punching a hole in the bottom of the quarter panel to make a drain. The dogleg was not so easily repaired and rusted out in 18 months. I bet those same Ford employees are designing and building Fusions as we speak!!!

PF_Flyer

Our '96 Sentra had water getting into the trunk that we never did figure out where it was coming from. All the seals looked good. I even folded down the rear seat and stuck my head into the trunk while the wife showered the outside with a hose. I came to the conclusion it was obviously magic

There was a rubber plug in the bottom of the spare tire well that removed and just left the hole open.

fintail

I'm shocked the Audi wasn't blindly weaving through traffic with no signals (ala BMW), and the MB wasn't a Lexus RX. Maybe it's a Seattle thing

andres3 said:

Of course if my timing and location was different, I could have been scared to death rather than just a spectator. I'm sure the guy in the A7/S7 was more shocked than me. He couldn't have been missed by more than a couple feet.

I think Audi needs to invent "shields" ala Star Trek as a safety feature. IF someone invades your space, they get electrocuted and shocked back into their own space bouncing off your force field without having to bounce off your car.

bwia

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

One of the drivers (one guy dropped another guy off to pick it up) was one of the service writers. When he came to my door to get the keys, he appologized for all the craziness I have been put through (his word..."craziness"). He said this week is his last week at the dealership. He said he really needed to do something else.

I didn't really get into it with him, but I did wish him well. He and I had spent quite a bit of time talking in the past. He knew of ALL the troubles I had with Cadillac.

Anyway, he said there were things going on in the background that I should know, but wasn't privy to. OK, now I'm intrigued.

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution. This was only supposed to be done IF CUSTOMERS KNEW ABOUT IT AND COMPLAINED. Problem was, the zip ties wouldn't hold and would melt or rub away, also. The whole wiring harness issue was a result of fitting the new 8-speed trans that was built by GM and rerouting some of the exhaust (which resulted in a lower HP rating for the 2.0t).

When I asked him why they told me, instead of waiting for me to complain, he said he raised the issue given the amount of trouble I had with Cadillac. He felt he was being pro-active and doing "what was right". He didn't say it, but I got the impression he may have caught some hell over letting me know of the issue in my car.

Anyway, Cadillac did indeed tell the dealership to "rush" the repair with zip ties given the amount of time it was in their service bay. And, that the authorization to complete the zip tie repair, would only pay for ONE drivetrain removal and insertion. That tells me they did not want me to know about the permanent fix because of the unavailability of parts.

Problem was, the zip ties only held for about ¼ mile as I drove the "repaired" CTS away from the dealership. Further, they couldn't do the reinstall of the drivetrain correctly because GM didn't alott them enough hours. He said he wasn't sure what happened regarding that, but the result was a rush job (that took nearly two months) that resulted in me returning the CTS to the dealership immediately.

Now, the same parts (the ones I was originally told wouldn't be avialble to perhaps well into March, are still aren't available.

He said the dealership doesn't know what to do with my car. They can't fix it. GM is telling them to keep quiet about it. He's leaving the dealership, so didn't care, but thought I should know.

I didn't think GM could be any more despicable in my eyes, but they've succeeded in stooping even lower.

Meanwhile, the BBB and Cadillac Customer Service are sitting on their hands.

GM bashing? Better believe it. Deserved? Absolutely!

GG, I haven't been following your saga very closely. So, is this the end of the story? Did you get your money back or are they offering you yet another CTS?

My son-in-law had a similar scenario with Volvo. The dealership just could not fix the anomaly. That recurring problem was resolved when the fourth vehicle, an S80 caught fire and was totaled. The insurance company settled for full value. End of story, end of Volvo is his garage.

abacomike

uplanderguy said:

He's talking about the Fiero by Pontiac.

Yes - that was it, uplander! 

abacomike

PF_Flyer said:

Our '96 Sentra had water getting into the trunk that we never did figure out where it was coming from. All the seals looked good. I even folded down the rear seat and stuck my head into the trunk while the wife showered the outside with a hose. I came to the conclusion it was obviously magic There was a rubber plug in the bottom of the spare tire well that removed and just left the hole open.

My 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE's trunk (or some similar ending initials) was always filled with water whenever it snowed heavily or rained heavily.  After 2 months of fiddling with the spoiler and the trunk, the dealer lemon lawed the car and Pontiac replaced it with an identical new one.  Luckily, my dealer in Wilkes-Barre PA stood behind me with that car.

uplanderguy

I'm curious and I don't know...where is the current Yaris made?

suydam

I'm beginning to feel like I'm lucky that I never had a car that leaked in the trunk or anywhere else. Until this morning I never knew this was an issue!

graphicguy

bwia said:

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

One of the drivers (one guy dropped another guy off to pick it up) was one of the service writers. When he came to my door to get the keys, he appologized for all the craziness I have been put through (his word..."craziness"). He said this week is his last week at the dealership. He said he really needed to do something else.

I didn't really get into it with him, but I did wish him well. He and I had spent quite a bit of time talking in the past. He knew of ALL the troubles I had with Cadillac.

Anyway, he said there were things going on in the background that I should know, but wasn't privy to. OK, now I'm intrigued.

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution. This was only supposed to be done IF CUSTOMERS KNEW ABOUT IT AND COMPLAINED. Problem was, the zip ties wouldn't hold and would melt or rub away, also. The whole wiring harness issue was a result of fitting the new 8-speed trans that was built by GM and rerouting some of the exhaust (which resulted in a lower HP rating for the 2.0t).

When I asked him why they told me, instead of waiting for me to complain, he said he raised the issue given the amount of trouble I had with Cadillac. He felt he was being pro-active and doing "what was right". He didn't say it, but I got the impression he may have caught some hell over letting me know of the issue in my car.

Anyway, Cadillac did indeed tell the dealership to "rush" the repair with zip ties given the amount of time it was in their service bay. And, that the authorization to complete the zip tie repair, would only pay for ONE drivetrain removal and insertion. That tells me they did not want me to know about the permanent fix because of the unavailability of parts.

Problem was, the zip ties only held for about ¼ mile as I drove the "repaired" CTS away from the dealership. Further, they couldn't do the reinstall of the drivetrain correctly because GM didn't alott them enough hours. He said he wasn't sure what happened regarding that, but the result was a rush job (that took nearly two months) that resulted in me returning the CTS to the dealership immediately.

Now, the same parts (the ones I was originally told wouldn't be avialble to perhaps well into March, are still aren't available.

He said the dealership doesn't know what to do with my car. They can't fix it. GM is telling them to keep quiet about it. He's leaving the dealership, so didn't care, but thought I should know.

I didn't think GM could be any more despicable in my eyes, but they've succeeded in stooping even lower.

Meanwhile, the BBB and Cadillac Customer Service are sitting on their hands.

GM bashing? Better believe it. Deserved? Absolutely!

GG, I haven't been following your saga very closely. So, is this the end of the story? Did you get your money back or are they offering you yet another CTS?

My son-in-law had a similar scenario with Volvo. The dealership just could not fix the anomaly. That recurring problem was resolved when the fourth vehicle, an S80 caught fire and was totaled. The insurance company settled for full value. End of story, end of Volvo is his garage.

Unfortunately, no...not the end...not by any stretch. Cadillac and the BBB will drag this out as long as possible. BBB has had the case for well over a month. They've gone silent (first they lost the paperwork I sent them, then they said they had to give GM "ample time to respond". Their definition of ample time is different than the rest of the world, obviously.

I'm trying to get this to arbitration. Obviously, GM doesn't want that as they keep dragging their feet to get the case resolved.

Attorney General won't look at it until BBB makes a (non) move on the case.

My other alternative is to hire my own attorney, and pay him/her out of pocket and recoup legal costs after the case is decided.

So, we're a ways away from getting this resolved. I'm going the distance with it, though.

ab348

bwia said:

My son-in-law had a similar scenario with Volvo. The dealership just could not fix the anomaly. That recurring problem was resolved when the fourth vehicle, an S80 caught fire and was totaled. The insurance company settled for full value. End of story, end of Volvo is his garage.

Sounds like the way some guys up here who know other guys (probably the same everywhere) can get problems like that fixed. Car is mysteriously stolen and then torched or driven off a cliff into the ocean. Insurance pays up, problem solved.