Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

Googling Yaris ads finds J and VN VIN codes. This would be built in Japan or France (?).

My fintail once had a trunk/water issue - I discovered the drain hose in the C-pillar-trunk area was misrouted. I moved it, problem solved. A friend of mine had an Accord with a leaky trunk seal - he discovered this one rainy morning when he got a flat tire, rummaged through the trunk to change it, and found a small lake. He wasn't pleased.

ab348

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

What explanation have they given you for withdrawing the loaner? It seems pretty clear-cut they are on the hook to provide you with something.

stickguy

Fin, my accord had that problem at one point. Discovered it when I got a flat, and the jack was frozen in place. Also had water in the taillight housing. Those got replaced. Not sure if ever did something about trunk. Or maybe was same issue. Wasn't chronic and I eventually sold the car.

stickguy

Ab, I would fight them for the loaner. Just to be a pain in their rump.

fintail

His was an 03 V6 coupe.

I remember it ate the transmission at ~70K (they all did), then was pretty solid until 160-170K (he commuted a lot), At that point, it started having electrical quirks that drove him nuts (dash lights, radio, cruise, ignition/driveability issues) , and he dumped it before 180K.

stickguy said:

Fin, my accord had that problem at one point. Discovered it when I got a flat, and the jack was frozen in place. Also had water in the taillight housing. Those got replaced. Not sure if ever did something about trunk. Or maybe was same issue. Wasn't chronic and I eventually sold the car.

fintail

The Firenza bit was a good read. I am surprised anyone bought one and didn't expect issues. Early 70s British car, what could go wrong? I think the closest thing south of 49 was the Plymouth Cricket, a rebadged Hillman Avenger. These are also virtually extinct today, and I have to imagine they dissolved in harsh climates.

Back in the day, my uncle had an Olds Firenza, I remember it as being fairly plush. Not sure what happened to it, I think it was replaced by an early 86 Taurus.

driver100 said:

This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

graphicguy

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

What explanation have they given you for withdrawing the loaner? It seems pretty clear-cut they are on the hook to provide you with something.

Don't know. Same thing happened last time. Once I filed Lemon Law with the BBB, they wanted the loaner back. So, I guess the way they look at it, they'll give me a loaner as long as I don't make waves. Once I hold their feet to the fire, they somehow think they're punishing me by not providing a loaner. I suppose they think the Caddy is the only car I have and I will be without transportation if they pull the loaner.

That's OK......getting their loaner is more hassle than it's worth. I have to go pick it up. I'm always worried if someone hits me, they're going to try to somehow dig into my pockets (sort of like rental car companies try to do if you don't pay for their damage waiver).

They aren't punishing me. They're actually saving me a bunch of time and effort.

Once we get this to the arbitrator or the courts, I'll ask for reimbursement for out of pocket like gas driving back and forth to their dealership, and loss of the use of my CTS.

jmonroe

venture said:

qbrozen said:

You just never know.

I had an entertaining episode on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago. An 18-wheeler was coming down an entrance ramp maybe an 1/8th mile ahead of me. I had nobody around me (thankfully) and was in the middle lane. As the truck enters the highway, he turns much harder to the left than needed and begins to cross through the right lane into the middle lane. I quickly juke to the left but see, by the angle of his tires, it appears he will be continuing all the way to the left lane or possibly the barrier. As I'm standing on my brake, I make a quick course correction back to the middle lane as my Volvo screeches its tires right and then left like a slalom skier. The truck then starts to swerve right again. I quickly slalom to the right lane, again with much drama from the tires. As I see daylight up ahead and another vehicle is coming down that ramp, I gun it and squirt through. This was all a matter of maybe 10 secs, but felt far far longer, of course.

Anyway, the point to my story is that others on the road can cause you to do some really crazy stuff with your vehicle. I could have easily lost control. I believe my autocross experience saved me in this particular instance since I avoided overcorrection and held steady until the car regained traction each time.

Great googally moogally!

I've credited my previous autocross experiences for a few near hits too.

Man, you guys with autocross experience sure are the lucky ones to have been able to learn from that. Me, I never did autocrossing. It's damn good thing I had cars with good "driving dynamics".

FWIW, Son #1 did autocrossing for about a year. Did it in the parking lot of the old VW plant in New Stanton PA after they shut down. That's where he killed his first car, a '91 Grand Prix V8, that he bought after getting out of Penn State. I was living in SC at the time and when visiting one time watched him while he was killing it. By the time I moved back to PA in early '07 he had finished it off completely. Got both the engine and tranny. I never could understand how mashing the accelerator pedal and then the brake pedal could have been good for a car. Maybe the driver but not the car.

The ironic part of doing his autocrossing at the old VW plant is that about 3 years later he worked at that place when Sony moved in. He said almost every time he got close to the area of the parking lot where he did his autocrossing, he got a weird cold feeling.

I guess you can say that he learned too late but I knew all along that ain't good for a car.

jmonroe

jmonroe

abacomike said:

Well, more tumult in my lifelong travails. It seems like God wants me to write a book or experience what Jonah experienced inside the whale - testing my faith periodically with health roadblocks.

I started physical therapy today for the spur in my right heel. This therapist seems to know what he's doing - used ultrasound and then taped my foot up to my lower calf. Supposed to loosen up the tendons. I have to keep it taped until I see him again Friday afternoon. I will be seeing him twice a week.

Wednesday, I have an appointment to have a battery of blood tests done to check the levels of hepatitis C viral counts. The gastroenterologist wants to start me on yet another Hep C anti viral medication for 26 weeks. The first two times I tried antiviral medicine (almost two years ago) was unsuccessful and resulted in a heart attack and then the liver cancer.

Seems my primary care physician is against my going back on hep C antivirals and the gastroenterologist is pushing this. So I might seek a third opinion from the surgical team at Broward General. I just hate the blood tests - 22 vials of blood and my veins are impossible to locate. Going to be lots of fun Wednesday morning.

Just very tired of surgery, therapy and being poked, not to mention CT-Scans and PET Scans. I guess it is just part of my life's trials and tribulations.

Thanks for letting me vent a little!

Mike, good luck with whatever path you choose but I think you already have your "third" opinion and that is you.

Why would you go with something that has been proven not to work for you?

It might be time to listen to Dr. j.

jmonroe

driver100

graphicguy said:

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

What explanation have they given you for withdrawing the loaner? It seems pretty clear-cut they are on the hook to provide you with something.

Don't know. Same thing happened last time. Once I filed Lemon Law with the BBB, they wanted the loaner back. So, I guess the way they look at it, they'll give me a loaner as long as I don't make waves. Once I hold their feet to the fire, they somehow think they're punishing me by not providing a loaner. I suppose they think the Caddy is the only car I have and I will be without transportation if they pull the loaner.

That's OK......getting their loaner is more hassle than it's worth. I have to go pick it up. I'm always worried if someone hits me, they're going to try to somehow dig into my pockets (sort of like rental car companies try to do if you don't pay for their damage waiver).

They aren't punishing me. They're actually saving me a bunch of time and effort.

Once we get this to the arbitrator or the courts, I'll ask for reimbursement for out of pocket like gas driving back and forth to their dealership, and loss of the use of my CTS.

I would have wanted them to sign a reason for taking back the loaner. They are the one's who have a guaranty that they will supply you with a loaner while your car is in their garage. Whether you filed or not I don't know under what circumstance they feel they should be able to get the loaner back.....false advertising.

suydam

@abacomike --
You have a lot to deal with. I'd see what your liver specialist thinks before putting yourself through that again.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

All brands probably have their share of outright lemons, but it seems GM has had more than their fair share, and the way they treat their customers doesn't seem to have changed from these examples to the way GG has been treated. They first cut them off, shut them up, and then ignore them like they don't exist.


Well, both you and GG had Audis that were problematic. You took a haircut on yours while GG, I believe, did one of his buybacks. He seems much more tolerant than you because he was looking at them again along with other brands he has had bad experiences with in the past. It's taken 4 Caddy off.

You just got to learn to let go of things, bro.

Ab, I have no personal vendetta against GM. I owned a few of them, 68 Malibu, 78 Tempest, 79 Cutlass, 81 Cutlass, 84 Camaro, 84 Celebrity, 85 Ciera, 88 Corsica, 92 Cavalier, and even a British built 62 Envoy......shown below




I never had a problem with my GM cars. I have lost my trust with the brand after the ignition problem and now GGs problems just confirm my thoughts. The articles about the Firenza was just interesting, and I forgot about it since it happened a long time ago....though some things never changed.

I did say I would try to avoid buying another Audi or Volvo because we did have major problems with those same brands. If I found an interesting story relating to those brands or even Mercedes I have no problem printing it....I have talked about my new E400 being delayed, but I don't believe it is MBs fault. I had rental cars, a Fusion and a Chrysler 300 that had major problems.

I really don't think I am bias or pick on any brand, I just report what I see.

ab348

graphicguy said:

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

What explanation have they given you for withdrawing the loaner? It seems pretty clear-cut they are on the hook to provide you with something.

Don't know. Same thing happened last time. .

You mean you didn't ask?

I would have. I'd ask then if they were saying my car was therefore driveable and fixed. I would ask if they thought I sabotaged the car. I'd ask if they thought I was making a false complaint. I'd ask if they thought I was a vexatious litigator. I'd ask if they thought there was any reason why they are not living up to their promise of courtesy transportation found in Cadillac's sales literature. I would be like Paul Harvey and want to know the rest of the story. Even if the loaner just sat at the curb I would want it. I just don't understand.

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I like the wheels on that Pony. Of course it has BC plates. Canada also got things like Skoda and Lada never sold south of the border (for political reasons no doubt) that were probably even cheaper, and in the case of the latter, no more reliable,

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/

I like those articles ab. It reminded me of another car I had forgot about. Does anyone remember the Daewoo?


The article was a fun reminder:
The company that relieved Hyundai from being the worst automaker in North America during the late 1990s went way under by 2002. In only five years, Daewoo had rightly earned one hell of a terrible legacy. A sales network made up of college students—“Hey, dudes! Buy my car!”—and a car line-up with more defects than an “Ernest” movie. Daewoo would eventually give America the worst automotive lineup since . . . well . . . Hyundai.

Daewoo’s entry level car was the Lanos, a car so wretched it actually exceeded the lemon-esque aura of the Hyundai Excel and Kia Sephia. After Daewoo went under, it would, to paraphrase Bill Shatner, “boldly depreciate to price levels no modern car had ever gone before.” The car offered 105 horsepower out of its 1.6L engine, but no one really cared—unless the anti-lock braking system failed. Which was often. The “Check Engine Light” came [on] standard along with interior parts that were cheaper than a Tata Nano. These days most “buy here, pay here” dealers won’t finance these cars because parts are so scarce and liability issues are so rampant

FULL ARTICLE

Sure I have a good Daewoo story. My friend was thinking of expanding his dealership and taking on a second brand. Daewoo approached him and dropped off some cars for him to drive. He gave me one for the weekend, and on Monday I dropped the keys off in the key slot with a large envelope that said "NO" on it.

abacomike

suydam said:

@abacomike -- You have a lot to deal with. I'd see what your liver specialist thinks before putting yourself through that again.

The liver specialist (gastroenterologist) is the one who ordered the blood tests to determine the condition of my immune system as well as the Hep C viral count. My primary care doc is the one who approves the referral. So I will have the tests tomorrow morning and will then schedule an appointment with the gastroenterologist for sometime next month. Then, we'll see what happens.

abacomike

@jmonroe When I talk with the gastroenterologist next month, I'll make up my mind. Let's see what the blood tests reveal.

abacomike

Just spoke with the gastroenterologist's nurse.  She said that she will call me when she gets the results of the tests.  Then she needs to contact the specialty pharmacy that supplies these high cost drugs to determine if my insurance company, coupled with the special foundation that covers my copays, will cover the costs ($100,000+) for 26 weeks.  A lot depends on my viral count and liver functions.  If I am covered, then I go in to consult with the gastroenterologist to determine the benefits plus the hazards of taking this new drug.  The only reason I have to take the drug for 26 instead of 12 weeks is because I have failed to be cured three times already - so the drug has to be taken twice as long.

Remember, the Hep C will continue to cause cancer in my liver - so I am caught between a rock and a hard place.  1/3 of my liver is gone- and if I develop cancer again, they can't surgically remove it again - not enough liver left and it has not been regenerating yet.  What can I say?  

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I like the wheels on that Pony. Of course it has BC plates. Canada also got things like Skoda and Lada never sold south of the border (for political reasons no doubt) that were probably even cheaper, and in the case of the latter, no more reliable,

Yep, Canadians traditionally loved cheap cars. My favorite example from that mid-80s era was the Dacia, a Renault 12 made in Romania that was sold here to a small group of masochists. My cheapskate brother bought a Lada and had no end of problems, to nobody's surprise but his.

Most of these cars were truly awful. Here is a comparison test from the mid-80s that captures that:

https://oldcarjunkie.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/canadian-cars-of-the-80s/

I like those articles ab. It reminded me of another car I had forgot about. Does anyone remember the Daewoo?


The article was a fun reminder:
The company that relieved Hyundai from being the worst automaker in North America during the late 1990s went way under by 2002. In only five years, Daewoo had rightly earned one hell of a terrible legacy. A sales network made up of college students—“Hey, dudes! Buy my car!”—and a car line-up with more defects than an “Ernest” movie. Daewoo would eventually give America the worst automotive lineup since . . . well . . . Hyundai.

Daewoo’s entry level car was the Lanos, a car so wretched it actually exceeded the lemon-esque aura of the Hyundai Excel and Kia Sephia. After Daewoo went under, it would, to paraphrase Bill Shatner, “boldly depreciate to price levels no modern car had ever gone before.” The car offered 105 horsepower out of its 1.6L engine, but no one really cared—unless the anti-lock braking system failed. Which was often. The “Check Engine Light” came [on] standard along with interior parts that were cheaper than a Tata Nano. These days most “buy here, pay here” dealers won’t finance these cars because parts are so scarce and liability issues are so rampant

FULL ARTICLE

Sure I have a good Daewoo story. My friend was thinking of expanding his dealership and taking on a second brand. Daewoo approached him and dropped off some cars for him to drive. He gave me one for the weekend, and on Monday I dropped the keys off in the key slot with a large envelope that said "NO" on it.

So, it is because of you that they are out of business in the USA! :@

driver100

abacomike said:

suydam said:

@abacomike --
You have a lot to deal with. I'd see what your liver specialist thinks before putting yourself through that again.

The liver specialist (gastroenterologist) is the one who ordered the blood tests to determine the condition of my immune system as well as the Hep C viral count. My primary care doc is the one who approves the referral. So I will have the tests tomorrow morning and will then schedule an appointment with the gastroenterologist for sometime next month. Then, we'll see what happens.

Best wishes on the blood tests tomorrow.....hope it goes as well as it can go. You have had so much going on, you deserve a break from these health issues.

abacomike

@driver100

That would be nice, driver.  At least I can still walk every day, pain and all, and I can still shop and take care of myself.  I dread the day when I can't accomplish those things, let alone have to give up driving - that would kill me quicker than the cancer. I'd have no way or reason to go into car dealerships to test drive cars, or buy them! 

PF_Flyer

suydam said:

I'm beginning to feel like I'm lucky that I never had a car that leaked in the trunk or anywhere else. Until this morning I never knew this was an issue!

Ya know, just typing that has probably put the whammy on you

Early in the 7th grade, a guy broke his leg in 5 places in gym class. Next morning while standing around before gym class, I pointed out that I had never broken a bone. Broke my foot in gym class that day, and in a series of incidents, I spent almost the next 18 months in casts on various appendages!

suydam

I thought about that.

abacomike

PF_Flyer said:

I'm beginning to feel like I'm lucky that I never had a car that leaked in the trunk or anywhere else. Until this morning I never knew this was an issue!

Ya know, just typing that has probably put the whammy on you Early in the 7th grade, a guy broke his leg in 5 places in gym class. Next morning while standing around before gym class, I pointed out that I had never broken a bone. Broke my foot in gym class that day, and in a series of incidents, I spent almost the next 18 months in casts on various appendages!

OUCH!!! 

carnaught

@graphicguy, can you say whistleblower?

You should consider hiring a high profile lawyer and opening this can of worms.

ab348

PF_Flyer said:

Early in the 7th grade, a guy broke his leg in 5 places in gym class. Next morning while standing around before gym class, I pointed out that I had never broken a bone. Broke my foot in gym class that day, and in a series of incidents, I spent almost the next 18 months in casts on various appendages!

Growing up it was fairly common for friends and classmates to break bones and be seen in casts. I always thought of myself as lucky that never happened to me. About 15 years ago I was walking home after work one day when my foot seemed to just explode as I took a step. I hadn't twisted it or stepped in or on anything. As people say, "it just blew".

Fortunately I was walking with a friend and she got me home. I wrapped it in elastic bandages, took some Tylenol, and hobbled around in some discomfort. The next morning it still hurt but I hobbled into work thinking maybe I had torn a ligament or something. After a couple of hours it hurt like crazy so my boss sent me to the emergency room. The duty doctor I saw refused to believe it was broken based upon what I told him about how it happened, but x-rays revealed a series of stress fractures. They put me in a non-weight bearing cast, loaned me a set of crutches, and said to stay off it for 2 weeks. What fun that was, living alone. Luckily I had sick leave so didn't lose any income.

graphicguy

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

What explanation have they given you for withdrawing the loaner? It seems pretty clear-cut they are on the hook to provide you with something.

Don't know. Same thing happened last time. .

You mean you didn't ask?

I would have. I'd ask then if they were saying my car was therefore driveable and fixed. I would ask if they thought I sabotaged the car. I'd ask if they thought I was making a false complaint. I'd ask if they thought I was a vexatious litigator. I'd ask if they thought there was any reason why they are not living up to their promise of courtesy transportation found in Cadillac's sales literature. I would be like Paul Harvey and want to know the rest of the story. Even if the loaner just sat at the curb I would want it. I just don't understand.

Just trying to get this resolved as quickly as possible. Getting alternate transportation from them (which is what was promised) isn't going to move that resolution along any quicker. In short, they've screwed me so badly, lied to me so much, caused me untold grief, it's just a matter of getting this done and overwith without me getting any more of their BS.

driver100

And you probably have full insurance coverage on a car that is sitting in a garage for 2 or 3 months!

jmonroe

PF_Flyer said:

suydam said:

I'm beginning to feel like I'm lucky that I never had a car that leaked in the trunk or anywhere else. Until this morning I never knew this was an issue!

Ya know, just typing that has probably put the whammy on you

Early in the 7th grade, a guy broke his leg in 5 places in gym class. Next morning while standing around before gym class, I pointed out that I had never broken a bone. Broke my foot in gym class that day, and in a series of incidents, I spent almost the next 18 months in casts on various appendages!

What a wammy you put on yourself.

I'm surprised your Edmunds name isn't @Zip_Lip.

jmonroe

andres3

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

All brands probably have their share of outright lemons, but it seems GM has had more than their fair share, and the way they treat their customers doesn't seem to have changed from these examples to the way GG has been treated. They first cut them off, shut them up, and then ignore them like they don't exist.

Well, both you and GG had Audis that were problematic. You took a haircut on yours while GG, I believe, did one of his buybacks. He seems much more tolerant than you because he was looking at them again along with other brands he has had bad experiences with in the past. It's taken 4 Caddys for him to swear them off.

You just got to learn to let go of things, bro.

What's good for Government Motors is good for America!

People/companies that sell lousy product (or in the case of my home AC/HVAC guy) that do lousy work for a living, have to be somewhat mentally challenged, and at least half psychotic.

I mean, if the thing you make your living off of is done in such an underhanded lazy way, what else do you got?

andres3

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

This is an interesting story about GM Ferenza that was sold in Canada. Cars were catching on fire, not starting, losing all their value, and GM wouldn't admit the car was a failure. If you read this story you will understand why many people would never buy another GM car.

The story of the Firenza

Come, come, Driver, you're starting to sound like our speed-crazed mutable friend from California. A British car from the early '70s? Name one that wasn't problematic. Besides, I doubt that anyone who was around then and bought one of these things (which were well-known almost right from the start as huge problems, just like the Ford Cortina and Austin Marina of the same vintage sold here) are still making the connection when they go to buy cars, assuming they are still licensed to drive. What's next, an analysis of the problems with the "copper-cooled" Chevrolets of the 1920s as similar GM-bashing rhetoric?

It was sold under the Pontiac name. I didn't go out to bash GM, I just started reading about it and thought,about the poor devils who bought one of these, and how could they ever buy another GM product? All brands probably have their share of outright lemons, but it seems GM has had more than their fair share, and the way they treat their customers doesn't seem to have changed from these examples to the way GG has been treated. They first cut them off, shut them up, and then ignore them like they don't exist.

Here is the brief story about the Firenza experience:
the upcoming 2.3litre version with emission equipment for the FE range.

Launched as a 1971 model year car the HC was called Firenza regardless of body configuration. It was available as a Standard 2 door Saloon (dropped for 1972), an SL 2 and 4 door Saloon, an SL 2 door Coupe and an SL 3 door Estate – which actually looked good with its built in roof bars! The marketing slogan was “The tough little fun car from General Motors” and a big play was made of all the testing that had been done to ensure the car was right, even the inside of the brochure showed a man in a white coat with a clip board ticking off everything was right. The trouble was everything was not all right.
As anyone who has experience of the Vauxhall slant four engine they are very “twitchy” and need careful attention to
give their best, the trouble was saddled with the earliest and most primitive emissions equipment available the Canadian Firenza didn’t stand a chance and often ran like a dog almost as soon as they left the dealer’s forecourt. Non starts, misfiring, oil leaks, electrical faults, slow performance, especially the automatic, cold running engines and therefore poor interior heating, valves sooting up, plug fouling, 15mpg fuel economy, the list went on and on. Pontiac dealers were overwhelmed with warranty claims.

I don't go out of my way to bash GM. Like I say, all companies have lemons, but GM has more than their share, and the way they treat their customers is the real story....they leave them hanging.

The Full Story of the British made Canadian Firenza

I think you are noticing a pattern of repeated behavior taught from one generation on down to the next at GM. I don't believe it is a coincidence, and I stand by my review that not enough heads were rolled out the door during the bankruptcy period of 2008-2010.

andres3

abacomike said:

PF_Flyer said:

Our '96 Sentra had water getting into the trunk that we never did figure out where it was coming from. All the seals looked good. I even folded down the rear seat and stuck my head into the trunk while the wife showered the outside with a hose. I came to the conclusion it was obviously magic

There was a rubber plug in the bottom of the spare tire well that removed and just left the hole open.

My 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE's trunk (or some similar ending initials) was always filled with water whenever it snowed heavily or rained heavily.  After 2 months of fiddling with the spoiler and the trunk, the dealer lemon lawed the car and Pontiac replaced it with an identical new one.  Luckily, my dealer in Wilkes-Barre PA stood behind me with that car.

Is that dealership still around, or was it one of the GM dealerships told to close their doors as part of the "bailout" conditions?

andres3

jmonroe said:

venture said:

qbrozen said:

You just never know.

I had an entertaining episode on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago. An 18-wheeler was coming down an entrance ramp maybe an 1/8th mile ahead of me. I had nobody around me (thankfully) and was in the middle lane. As the truck enters the highway, he turns much harder to the left than needed and begins to cross through the right lane into the middle lane. I quickly juke to the left but see, by the angle of his tires, it appears he will be continuing all the way to the left lane or possibly the barrier. As I'm standing on my brake, I make a quick course correction back to the middle lane as my Volvo screeches its tires right and then left like a slalom skier. The truck then starts to swerve right again. I quickly slalom to the right lane, again with much drama from the tires. As I see daylight up ahead and another vehicle is coming down that ramp, I gun it and squirt through. This was all a matter of maybe 10 secs, but felt far far longer, of course.

Anyway, the point to my story is that others on the road can cause you to do some really crazy stuff with your vehicle. I could have easily lost control. I believe my autocross experience saved me in this particular instance since I avoided overcorrection and held steady until the car regained traction each time.

Great googally moogally!

I've credited my previous autocross experiences for a few near hits too.

Man, you guys with autocross experience sure are the lucky ones to have been able to learn from that. Me, I never did autocrossing. It's damn good thing I had cars with good "driving dynamics".

FWIW, Son #1 did autocrossing for about a year. Did it in the parking lot of the old VW plant in New Stanton PA after they shut down. That's where he killed his first car, a '91 Grand Prix V8, that he bought after getting out of Penn State. I was living in SC at the time and when visiting one time watched him while he was killing it. By the time I moved back to PA in early '07 he had finished it off completely. Got both the engine and tranny. I never could understand how mashing the accelerator pedal and then the brake pedal could have been good for a car. Maybe the driver but not the car.

The ironic part of doing his autocrossing at the old VW plant is that about 3 years later he worked at that place when Sony moved in. He said almost every time he got close to the area of the parking lot where he did his autocrossing, he got a weird cold feeling.

I guess you can say that he learned too late but I knew all along that ain't good for a car.

jmonroe

You know the old saying "if you got it, flaunt it!"? I think that applies to cars. If they can handle being driven dynamically, then you must (you have a duty to) drive them dynamically. If you don't, you "use it or lose it." Wide open throttle cures a lot of ailments. An Audi that has been driven like a Camry is sick, feeble, and out of shape. Probably needs a fuel system cleaning.

jwm40517

I had a 71 Corvette with both tops and the hard top leaked badly from the start. It would run forward on the rear deck and into the back of driver's seat. Several inches would accumulate. Had it back to dealer many times for the leak and also a paint problem on the center of the hard top.

It was repainted several times and always looked great when I picked it up, but in a few days it looked like someone had ran a file across the roof in a series of lines under the paint.

Finally took it to an old friend that had painted Corvettes for many years and he fixed both problems in one trip. Seems the factory drilled one or two extra holes near the clips that held the trim around the rear glass. A tiny hole, not visible, but allowed gallons to enter in a day or two. Not sure what he did for the paint that the dealer could not cure, but it looked great for years.

imidazol97

andres3 said:

What's good for Government Motors is good for America!

The "Government Motors" term is a political term. Perhaps suitable in other discussions that are about politics.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution.

Now that information fits. There isn't a fix yet for a service cable.

Is this platform shared by the Camaro? Is the same engine and 8-speed transmission used by the Camaro?

It would have been much better just to have traded you out and put the car away on a lot until a repair cable was available for service work.

abacomike

andres3 said:

PF_Flyer said:

Our '96 Sentra had water getting into the trunk that we never did figure out where it was coming from. All the seals looked good. I even folded down the rear seat and stuck my head into the trunk while the wife showered the outside with a hose. I came to the conclusion it was obviously magic There was a rubber plug in the bottom of the spare tire well that removed and just left the hole open.

My 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE's trunk (or some similar ending initials) was always filled with water whenever it snowed heavily or rained heavily.  After 2 months of fiddling with the spoiler and the trunk, the dealer lemon lawed the car and Pontiac replaced it with an identical new one.  Luckily, my dealer in Wilkes-Barre PA stood behind me with that car.

Is that dealership still around, or was it one of the GM dealerships told to close their doors as part of the "bailout" conditions?

That was 17 years ago - I live in Florida and have not been in PA since moving here in 2000.  It was a Pontiac, Chevrolet and GMC dealership.  That was in Wilkes-Barre so my guess is probably it is no longer there since it was a Mom and Pop kind of dealership.

cdnpinhead

The scold count grows.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution.

Now that information fits. There isn't a fix yet for a service cable.

Is this platform shared by the Camaro? Is the same engine and 8-speed transmission used by the Camaro?

Yes and Yes!

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Is this platform shared by the Camaro? Is the same engine and 8-speed transmission used by the Camaro?

Yes and Yes!

I wonder if there are problems with the cables used there. Hmmm.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

andres3 said:

What's good for Government Motors is good for America!

The "Government Motors" term is a political term. Perhaps suitable in other discussions that are about politics.

You cannot reason with certain people.

ab348

andres3 said:

I think you are noticing a pattern of repeated behavior taught from one generation on down to the next at GM. I don't believe it is a coincidence, and I stand by my review that not enough heads were rolled out the door during the bankruptcy period of 2008-2010.

Yes, I imagine the person who designed the wiring harness for GG's Caddy is the grandchild of the one who designed the Firenza's electrical system in Luton in 1969. Nepotism must run very deep within the corporation, huh?

imidazol97

ab348 said:

Yes, I imagine the person who designed the wiring harness for GG's Caddy is the grandchild of the one who designed the Firenza's electrical system in Luton in 1969.

\

But Firenza came from GM Europe and the Cadillac design came from the US.

Either way this is a current problem. I don't know how many years ago the Firenza was.

abacomike

cdnpinhead said:

The scold count grows.

Cdnpinhead - I don't understand your post - forgive me for my shortcomings.  

ab348

imidazol97 said:

ab348 said:

Yes, I imagine the person who designed the wiring harness for GG's Caddy is the grandchild of the one who designed the Firenza's electrical system in Luton in 1969.

\

But Firenza came from GM Europe and the Cadillac design came from the US.

Either way this is a current problem. I don't know how many years ago the Firenza was.

Of course. The original comment was more of that individual's seemingly perpetual lunacy. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the original post.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

All brands probably have their share of outright lemons, but it seems GM has had more than their fair share, and the way they treat their customers doesn't seem to have changed from these examples to the way GG has been treated. They first cut them off, shut them up, and then ignore them like they don't exist.

Well, both you and GG had Audis that were problematic. You took a haircut on yours while GG, I believe, did one of his buybacks. He seems much more tolerant than you because he was looking at them again along with other brands he has had bad experiences with in the past. It's taken 4 Caddys for him to swear them off.

You just got to learn to let go of things, bro.

I just heard that some survey just came out listing Audi as #1 in reliability. Kind of suprised.

abacomike

On my way home from my walk in the mall, I stopped off at the local Walmart to pick up a few items I forgot to buy when I went food shopping last Friday.  My first stop was to the lavatory - the diuretics I take work pretty well.  I parked my empty food cart near the lav and walked in.  The stench from urine and other bodily emissions was so bad I had to leave without using the facilities.

As much as I save by purchasing most of my food at the Walmart Super Store, that could be my last shopping trip to Walmart.  From now on, I'll do my shopping at the Publix down the street from me.  Just thinking about that experience turns my stomach. 

oldfarmer50

uplanderguy said:

Our '73 Nova leaked water in the trunk when new (sticker price $2,625). I think it was chronic with the '73 taillight redesign. Water came around the dual lights on each side. My Dad ended up fixing it himself.

I can remember my uncle's '71 or '72 Duster he bought new near where they lived in Howard Beach, NY. The differential made the most annoying noise; not normal. Dealer could never "hear it", LOL. They lived with it. I don't remember that it ever "went", but I'm not sure.

Woman at work has a 2002 Saturn SC and she just discovered that water has rotted the trunk floor out. Seems those plastic panels can hide a lot of nasty.

jmonroe

andres3 said:

jmonroe said:

venture said:

qbrozen said:

You just never know.

I had an entertaining episode on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago. An 18-wheeler was coming down an entrance ramp maybe an 1/8th mile ahead of me. I had nobody around me (thankfully) and was in the middle lane. As the truck enters the highway, he turns much harder to the left than needed and begins to cross through the right lane into the middle lane. I quickly juke to the left but see, by the angle of his tires, it appears he will be continuing all the way to the left lane or possibly the barrier. As I'm standing on my brake, I make a quick course correction back to the middle lane as my Volvo screeches its tires right and then left like a slalom skier. The truck then starts to swerve right again. I quickly slalom to the right lane, again with much drama from the tires. As I see daylight up ahead and another vehicle is coming down that ramp, I gun it and squirt through. This was all a matter of maybe 10 secs, but felt far far longer, of course.

Anyway, the point to my story is that others on the road can cause you to do some really crazy stuff with your vehicle. I could have easily lost control. I believe my autocross experience saved me in this particular instance since I avoided overcorrection and held steady until the car regained traction each time.

Great googally moogally!

I've credited my previous autocross experiences for a few near hits too.

Man, you guys with autocross experience sure are the lucky ones to have been able to learn from that. Me, I never did autocrossing. It's damn good thing I had cars with good "driving dynamics".

FWIW, Son #1 did autocrossing for about a year. Did it in the parking lot of the old VW plant in New Stanton PA after they shut down. That's where he killed his first car, a '91 Grand Prix V8, that he bought after getting out of Penn State. I was living in SC at the time and when visiting one time watched him while he was killing it. By the time I moved back to PA in early '07 he had finished it off completely. Got both the engine and tranny. I never could understand how mashing the accelerator pedal and then the brake pedal could have been good for a car. Maybe the driver but not the car.

The ironic part of doing his autocrossing at the old VW plant is that about 3 years later he worked at that place when Sony moved in. He said almost every time he got close to the area of the parking lot where he did his autocrossing, he got a weird cold feeling.

I guess you can say that he learned too late but I knew all along that ain't good for a car.

jmonroe

You know the old saying "if you got it, flaunt it!"? I think that applies to cars. If they can handle being driven dynamically, then you must (you have a duty to) drive them dynamically. If you don't, you "use it or lose it." Wide open throttle cures a lot of ailments. An Audi that has been driven like a Camry is sick, feeble, and out of shape. Probably needs a fuel system cleaning.

I'd have to be smoking or snorting some top of the line stuff to believe that.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

bwia said:

graphicguy said:

A little news on the CTS......dealership guys came to pick up the loaner CT6 yesterday. Said before, pretty nice car. Not for $70K, but maybe $10K-$15K less. Plus, any minute sense of trusting Cadillac after the latest fiasco has dissapated.

One of the drivers (one guy dropped another guy off to pick it up) was one of the service writers. When he came to my door to get the keys, he appologized for all the craziness I have been put through (his word..."craziness"). He said this week is his last week at the dealership. He said he really needed to do something else.

I didn't really get into it with him, but I did wish him well. He and I had spent quite a bit of time talking in the past. He knew of ALL the troubles I had with Cadillac.

Anyway, he said there were things going on in the background that I should know, but wasn't privy to. OK, now I'm intrigued.

Paraphrasing, Cadillac had known about the wiring harness issue for months. Instead of a recall, the dealers were supposed to do a temporary fix with zip ties until GM could come up with a solution. This was only supposed to be done IF CUSTOMERS KNEW ABOUT IT AND COMPLAINED. Problem was, the zip ties wouldn't hold and would melt or rub away, also. The whole wiring harness issue was a result of fitting the new 8-speed trans that was built by GM and rerouting some of the exhaust (which resulted in a lower HP rating for the 2.0t).

When I asked him why they told me, instead of waiting for me to complain, he said he raised the issue given the amount of trouble I had with Cadillac. He felt he was being pro-active and doing "what was right". He didn't say it, but I got the impression he may have caught some hell over letting me know of the issue in my car.

Anyway, Cadillac did indeed tell the dealership to "rush" the repair with zip ties given the amount of time it was in their service bay. And, that the authorization to complete the zip tie repair, would only pay for ONE drivetrain removal and insertion. That tells me they did not want me to know about the permanent fix because of the unavailability of parts.

Problem was, the zip ties only held for about ¼ mile as I drove the "repaired" CTS away from the dealership. Further, they couldn't do the reinstall of the drivetrain correctly because GM didn't alott them enough hours. He said he wasn't sure what happened regarding that, but the result was a rush job (that took nearly two months) that resulted in me returning the CTS to the dealership immediately.

Now, the same parts (the ones I was originally told wouldn't be avialble to perhaps well into March, are still aren't available.

He said the dealership doesn't know what to do with my car. They can't fix it. GM is telling them to keep quiet about it. He's leaving the dealership, so didn't care, but thought I should know.

I didn't think GM could be any more despicable in my eyes, but they've succeeded in stooping even lower.

Meanwhile, the BBB and Cadillac Customer Service are sitting on their hands.

GM bashing? Better believe it. Deserved? Absolutely!

GG, I haven't been following your saga very closely. So, is this the end of the story? Did you get your money back or are they offering you yet another CTS?

My son-in-law had a similar scenario with Volvo. The dealership just could not fix the anomaly. That recurring problem was resolved when the fourth vehicle, an S80 caught fire and was totaled. The insurance company settled for full value. End of story, end of Volvo is his garage.

Unfortunately, no...not the end...not by any stretch. Cadillac and the BBB will drag this out as long as possible. BBB has had the case for well over a month. They've gone silent (first they lost the paperwork I sent them, then they said they had to give GM "ample time to respond". Their definition of ample time is different than the rest of the world, obviously.

I'm trying to get this to arbitration. Obviously, GM doesn't want that as they keep dragging their feet to get the case resolved.

Attorney General won't look at it until BBB makes a (non) move on the case.

My other alternative is to hire my own attorney, and pay him/her out of pocket and recoup legal costs after the case is decided.

So, we're a ways away from getting this resolved. I'm going the distance with it, though.

Make sure you get the ex-employee's phone number. He would be gold in a court case.

abacomike

jmonroe said:

You just never know. I had an entertaining episode on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago. An 18-wheeler was coming down an entrance ramp maybe an 1/8th mile ahead of me. I had nobody around me (thankfully) and was in the middle lane. As the truck enters the highway, he turns much harder to the left than needed and begins to cross through the right lane into the middle lane. I quickly juke to the left but see, by the angle of his tires, it appears he will be continuing all the way to the left lane or possibly the barrier. As I'm standing on my brake, I make a quick course correction back to the middle lane as my Volvo screeches its tires right and then left like a slalom skier. The truck then starts to swerve right again. I quickly slalom to the right lane, again with much drama from the tires. As I see daylight up ahead and another vehicle is coming down that ramp, I gun it and squirt through. This was all a matter of maybe 10 secs, but felt far far longer, of course. Anyway, the point to my story is that others on the road can cause you to do some really crazy stuff with your vehicle. I could have easily lost control. I believe my autocross experience saved me in this particular instance since I avoided overcorrection and held steady until the car regained traction each time.

Great googally moogally! I've credited my previous autocross experiences for a few near hits too.

Man, you guys with autocross experience sure are the lucky ones to have been able to learn from that. Me, I never did autocrossing. It's damn good thing I had cars with good "driving dynamics". FWIW, Son #1 did autocrossing for about a year. Did it in the parking lot of the old VW plant in New Stanton PA after they shut down. That's where he killed his first car, a '91 Grand Prix V8, that he bought after getting out of Penn State. I was living in SC at the time and when visiting one time watched him while he was killing it. By the time I moved back to PA in early '07 he had finished it off completely. Got both the engine and tranny. I never could understand how mashing the accelerator pedal and then the brake pedal could have been good for a car. Maybe the driver but not the car. The ironic part of doing his autocrossing at the old VW plant is that about 3 years later he worked at that place when Sony moved in. He said almost every time he got close to the area of the parking lot where he did his autocrossing, he got a weird cold feeling. I guess you can say that he learned too late but I knew all along that ain't good for a car. jmonroe

You know the old saying "if you got it, flaunt it!"? I think that applies to cars. If they can handle being driven dynamically, then you must (you have a duty to) drive them dynamically. If you don't, you "use it or lose it." Wide open throttle cures a lot of ailments. An Audi that has been driven like a Camry is sick, feeble, and out of shape. Probably needs a fuel system cleaning.

I'd have to be smoking or snorting some top of the line stuff to believe that. jmonroe

I've never smoked or snorted any top of the line weed or drug, but I've swallowed some great top of the line Bourbons and Cognacs - wonder if there is any relationship between/among them?