Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

murphydog

Sounds like a really nice car murph and the deal went down really well. 8,000 miles is like nothing, and the final price is reasonable. White looks great on the X3 and the Mohave leather compliments it perfectly. I am glad you didn't get hung up on the $43k vs $46,900 as you were probably hoping for a very low price (we all do) and in the big scheme of things that isn't going to matter since you got a great car at a good price.

I'd be really interested in hearing about the comparisons between driving the X3 compared to the RX350. if you get a chance.



Two very different driving experiences that is for sure. Lexus is very smooth, but kind of floaty. Has enough power to get going when you need to, but truthfully it prefers if you don't mash the pedal.

The X3 is firm, but not harsh, and has a nice growl when you put your foot in it. I can feel the difference in response between sport and comfort mode, leave it in comfort for the wife and sport for me.

The M sport package has seats with larger side bolsters - to me it feels like a comfy glove, again not for all people but we like em. The Lexus seats were fine in sort of a sofa kind of way.

The music/media/navigation it light years better, however we are comparing an 08 (designed a few years earlier) to a 14 so that is not really a fair comparison.

I paired my iPhone in about 2 seconds via bluetooth and loved how easy it was to control and play music via the car. The album art even shows on the screen.

Not thrilled about the run flats - limited choice at replacement time, but will cross that bridge when we get there

in terms of the deal - the car was clearly at the high end of our rage, we were looking for a 2013 with about 15,000 miles, but as I said finding this car not in Black was a real challenge.

We will make a November trip up highway 2 to Leavenworth Washington as our first road trip, I am expecting to enjoy the drive!

driver100

murphydog said:

Sounds like a really nice car murph and the deal went down really well. 8,000 miles is like nothing, and the final price is reasonable. White looks great on the X3 and the Mohave leather compliments it perfectly. I am glad you didn't get hung up on the $43k vs $46,900 as you were probably hoping for a very low price (we all do) and in the big scheme of things that isn't going to matter since you got a great car at a good price.

I'd be really interested in hearing about the comparisons between driving the X3 compared to the RX350. if you get a chance.

Two very different driving experiences that is for sure. Lexus is very smooth, but kind of floaty. Has enough power to get going when you need to, but truthfully it prefers if you don't mash the pedal.

The X3 is firm, but not harsh, and has a nice growl when you put your foot in it. I can feel the difference in response between sport and comfort mode, leave it in comfort for the wife and sport for me.

The M sport package has seats with larger side bolsters - to me it feels like a comfy glove, again not for all people but we like em. The Lexus seats were fine in sort of a sofa kind of way.

The music/media/navigation it light years better, however we are comparing an 08 (designed a few years earlier) to a 14 so that is not really a fair comparison.

I paired my iPhone in about 2 seconds via bluetooth and loved how easy it was to control and play music via the car. The album art even shows on the screen.

Not thrilled about the run flats - limited choice at replacement time, but will cross that bridge when we get there

in terms of the deal - the car was clearly at the high end of our rage, we were looking for a 2013 with about 15,000 miles, but as I said finding this car not in Black was a real challenge.

We will make a November trip up highway 2 to Leavenworth Washington as our first road trip, I am expecting to enjoy the drive!

Thanks for the comparison. I had a 2004 X3 and would agree with your findings, compared to an aquaintence's RX 350. The RX350 was typical Toyota in my opinion, sturdy, reliable, comfortable, well designed....but, no passion was put into the making of it. The X3 on the other hand, made driving a more enjoyable experience .

I actually found the dealer had some of the best deals on tires (but, we don't have Tire Rack in Canada). I don't like run flat tires, but, I'd rather have to have run flats then drive something without a soul.

roadburner

murphydog said:

OK - Continued

So we found our unicorn - X3 35i, right year, low miles, M sport package and not black. Alpine White, Mohave leather - nearly all the bells and whistles

Negotiation was over in about 10 minutes. The offered 46,900 (from 48,900) and 16K for my trade in (exactly as I researched, and mirroring real world trade in forum posts)

Car is rare in the PNW and when one comes in they sell in a few days.

We wanted closer to 43,xxx - but given that this was a '14 with 8,000 miles on the clock there was no way they would go lower (and if I was the dealer I would not have gone lower either)

So we shook hands and took the car.

I am having them take the venture shield off - a white car with a dirty plastic film on the front is not my cup of tea.

Wife loves it, and I really like driving it as well. May not be a BMW of yore, but way more exciting to drive than an RX 350.

Congratulations!!! I've said it before, but I love driving our E83 X3 2.5. They are very nice vehicles.

Mr_Shiftright

Being something of a graybeard myself, I am good at recognizing this market (no pot belly though).

I just priced out a high-option Camaro ZL1 and came up with $68,000---not including tax and license. This is certainly not within reach of the average young Camaro fanboy.

jayrider said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I wonder what the average age is of buyers for the performance level Camaros and Mustangs. My suspicion is that many are gray beards (the younger edge of the boomers) and really don't want a back-breaking suspension on an everyday driver.

I remember lending an older friend my MINI and he came back and said "damn skateboard!"

Don't forget the bald head with the graybeard -- add a pot belly and you hit the demographic on the head.

mako1a

Murph, we all have our needs and wants. Sounds like you got just the right deal.
My thing would have been "Does it have a beer tap shifter?"
ps Nice comparison RX to X3.

driver100

mako1a said:

Murph, we all have our needs and wants. Sounds like you got just the right deal.
My thing would have been "Does it have a beer tap shifter?"
ps Nice comparison RX to X3.

Do you mean you would likeit to have a real beer tap?

btw....I have to disagree with roadburner about the beer tap shifter, I think it is handy and easy to use once you get used to it....it takes something a bit crude and brings it up to date.

btw the E400 has a small shifter like a turn signal stock...I am not sure if that is better or not.

You just push it forward or back a small amount,


Not like this:

mako1a

Do you mean you would likeit to have a real beer tap?
No, not a drinker here (except Iced Tea). I just like things that light up and function easily.
I saw the X5 get a beer tap about 3 years before the X3 so it must have been expensive.

nyccarguy

@murphydog‌

Congrats on the X3! I like that Turbo Motor!

fezo

jayrider said:

My father had a supermarket back in the 50's and 60's. The checkers were neighborhood people and they would routinely forget to charge for meat purchases. His brother stole big time -- altered checks and accounts. Put him out of business.

jayrider, The exact same thing happened to my father. He was literally decades crawling out of the hole his brother dug. It's why my childhood was a string of $150 cars.

qbrozen

so, catching up here.

From what I've read before, the tires on the Camaro 1LE are basically track tires (called "cheater tires" in some comparisons I've read). Yes, the tires make a HUGE difference compared to the stang. I'd also like to note a couple of other things. 1LE Camaro base price? $41,800. Stang PP? $35,420. I could put cheater rubber on the Stang, trounce the Camaro, and still have $5k change. And, lastly, not to ding poor Randy, but those cars were neck-and-neck up until exiting the last turn before the light bulb where he broke loose with the stang, making him completely botch the light bulb, hence the Camaro coming out quite a ways ahead from that turn to the finish.

I know I sound like a fanboy above. I just prefer fair matchups. To be more fair, yes, had the Mustang better tires, Randy could have made a better show of it. And had they equipped the 2 cars the same, the pricetags would have been more telling in the video. I'm also surprised by the close weights. I thought the Camaro was over 4k. I've read the next gen will be on the lighter platform from the ATS, so that could make things quite interesting.

jayrider

If I was serious about buying a coupe like a Camaro or Mustang, I could decide in one hour which to buy. On each car, do a walk around -- sit and exit then take a 15 minute test drive. I'm sure for whatever reason, one would standout. No parsing or point by point comparison. That isn't me. The one I like best gets bought. To be clear, I am so not in the market for anything even remotely related to either one. That ship has sailed. I do like the looks of both. I'm for anything that makes folks feel good.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

so, catching up here.

From what I've read before, the tires on the Camaro 1LE are basically track tires (called "cheater tires" in some comparisons I've read). Yes, the tires make a HUGE difference compared to the stang. I'd also like to note a couple of other things. 1LE Camaro base price? $41,800. Stang PP? $35,420. I could put cheater rubber on the Stang, trounce the Camaro, and still have $5k change. And, lastly, not to ding poor Randy, but those cars were neck-and-neck up until exiting the last turn before the light bulb where he broke loose with the stang, making him completely botch the light bulb, hence the Camaro coming out quite a ways ahead from that turn to the finish.

I know I sound like a fanboy above. I just prefer fair matchups. To be more fair, yes, had the Mustang better tires, Randy could have made a better show of it. And had they equipped the 2 cars the same, the pricetags would have been more telling in the video. I'm also surprised by the close weights. I thought the Camaro was over 4k. I've read the next gen will be on the lighter platform from the ATS, so that could make things quite interesting.

That's a very perceptive analysis GG. I thought there might be a difference in the set up of the cars. The Mustang seemed to lift the back corner in the turns whereas the Camaro stayed flat. Could that just be from tires or did the Camaro have some suspension tweaks missing in the Stang.

Hardly sporting to compare differently equipped cars. Was somebody paid off?

explorerx4

@oldfarmer, I don't think the comparison is unfair, it just points out that the 1LE Camaro is a great track car. It has benefited from years of racing experience. The Mustang is completely new, but still almost keeps up. It will get better as it gets the benefit of the same type of experience.
I've read that when dyno tested, the engine power is somewhat under rated.
The tires my Fusion has are down to $246 each, so I just about have all the money I'll to replace them saved up. Hopefully they will last a couple of more years. I like them a lot, other than some of the usual power on fwd issues.

ab348

So I finally reached out to the general sales manager at the dealer I hadn't heard from. He seemed legitimately apologetic, saying that both the salesperson and sales manager I had dealt with 3 years ago were no longer there and that they had dropped the ball not keeping contact with me. Fair enough.

So I was handed off to a sales guy who lined me up with a couple of cars to drive. One was a 2015 Regal, similar colors to mine. Interesting changes in 4 model years. New engine is much more powerful, car is quieter, updated dash and infotainment systems are a big step up. Really very nice, a definite step forward.

Also got to drive an 2014 ATS 2.0 Turbo AWD. Colors did not work for me but very impressive otherwise. The ATS is a better deal financially thanks to end of model year incentives. Churning over numbers and gut feel right now.

explorerx4

@ab348, are you looking at buying or leasing?

ab348

explorerx4 said:

@ab348, are you looking at buying or leasing?

Most likely another lease.

oldfarmer50

They keep calling.

The NJ Ford dealer is a polar opposite of the local one. Even though I asked them to take me off their list I just got another call asking me to "come on down" this weekend as they has just acquired a 2015 Mustang turbo 4.

While I'd like to drive the 2.3L just for kicks, I don't think I'd be willing to drive 160 miles one-way for it.

The persistence of these guys is such a stark contrast to the local dealers indifference.

On a similar topic I was chatting with a person who was a manager with a big local Ford store years ago. He said all dealers get an allocation of cars and are encouraged to push the more fuel efficient ones to meet corporate CAFE standards. Might make them reluctant to deal on V8s was the implication.

Can any of the sales guys elaborate on that?

driver100

ab348 said:

So I finally reached out to the general sales manager at the dealer I hadn't heard from. He seemed legitimately apologetic, saying that both the salesperson and sales manager I had dealt with 3 years ago were no longer there and that they had dropped the ball not keeping contact with me. Fair enough.

So I was handed off to a sales guy who lined me up with a couple of cars to drive. One was a 2015 Regal, similar colors to mine. Interesting changes in 4 model years. New engine is much more powerful, car is quieter, updated dash and infotainment systems are a big step up. Really very nice, a definite step forward.

Also got to drive an 2014 ATS 2.0 Turbo AWD. Colors did not work for me but very impressive otherwise. The ATS is a better deal financially thanks to end of model year incentives. Churning over numbers and gut feel right now.

Since the ATS is financially a better deal, it definitely is worth consideration. You were happy with the Buick and the ATS should be even better, and what a way to upgrade...could put you in a totally new category.....of fun and excitement.

driver100

qbrozen said:

so, catching up here.

From what I've read before, the tires on the Camaro 1LE are basically track tires (called "cheater tires" in some comparisons I've read). Yes, the tires make a HUGE difference compared to the stang. I'd also like to note a couple of other things. 1LE Camaro base price? $41,800. Stang PP? $35,420. I could put cheater rubber on the Stang, trounce the Camaro, and still have $5k change. And, lastly, not to ding poor Randy, but those cars were neck-and-neck up until exiting the last turn before the light bulb where he broke loose with the stang, making him completely botch the light bulb, hence the Camaro coming out quite a ways ahead from that turn to the finish.

I know I sound like a fanboy above. I just prefer fair matchups. To be more fair, yes, had the Mustang better tires, Randy could have made a better show of it. And had they equipped the 2 cars the same, the pricetags would have been more telling in the video. I'm also surprised by the close weights. I thought the Camaro was over 4k. I've read the next gen will be on the lighter platform from the ATS, so that could make things quite interesting.

Great analysis qb, and very unfair if the tires could make such a big difference. It seemed the suspension made a big difference too, they talked about the Camaro digging in more.

But everything is relative, I'd take a car that is bit slower, but is more comfortable and has a much nicer interior anytime.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

@ab348, are you looking at buying or leasing?

Most likely another lease.

So do you want familiar or totally new?

stickguy

Farmer, what dealer was that again in Jersey? Since that is where I am, maybe I can stop in and say hi for you, and look at the Mustang. At great personal sacrifice, I will do it, just for you.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

@ab348, are you looking at buying or leasing?

Most likely another lease.

So do you want familiar or totally new?

If you lease it could cost less to lease a 2015 model. Keep in mind the 2014 is worth a lot less when you trade it in 3 years from now, and you pay for that in your lease payments.

You will save more on the up front cost on a 2014, because they will give you a discount of $2 or $3K, but one years depreciation could be $4, $5 or even $6K or more. One way it could work to your advantage maybe is lower initial cost, and lower buy back price in 3 years, but still....probably higher monthly payments.

Buying and keeping a 2014 car for 6 years or more could result in savings.

Unless things are really wonky it should cost less to lease a 2015 over a 2014.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

lol...and are things like make-up, clothes and other tools of the trade tax deductible?

I used to have a client who was a stripper. She had make-up that she used exclusively for her profession that she kept at the club, we deducted it. We also did it for the outfits she wore.

ab348

driver100 said:

If you lease it could cost less to lease a 2015 model. Keep in mind the 2014 is worth a lot less when you trade it in 3 years from now, and you pay for that in your lease payments.

You will save more on the up front cost on a 2014, because they will give you a discount of $2 or $3K, but one years depreciation could be $4, $5 or even $6K or more. One way it could work to your advantage maybe is lower initial cost, and lower buy back price in 3 years, but still....probably higher monthly payments.

Buying and keeping a 2014 car for 6 years or more could result in savings.

Unless things are really wonky it should cost less to lease a 2015 over a 2014.

I'm not seeing that in the numbers. Looks like the 2014 is about $100/month less than the 2015.

I'm torn because the one I really like is getting up there in price. I might have to live with a black interior.

nyccarguy

@abacomike‌

My father-in-law recently joined USAA & we in turn joined as well. I've been poking around their website & tried to get car insurance through them. My local ALL STATE agent ended up blowing everyone else out of the water & lured me away from Liberty Mutual.

I got a quote to refinance my Legacy currently 2.9% from TD Auto Finance down to 2.25% from USAA. I also just booked a rent-a-car for Thursday through Sunday in Naples (our 10 year anniversary).

I then found the auto buying part of the site and got to see the generous Mercedes-Benz rebates! WOW!

abacomike

nyccarguy said:

@abacomike‌ My father-in-law recently joined USAA & we in turn joined as well. I've been poking around their website & tried to get car insurance through them. My local ALL STATE agent ended up blowing everyone else out of the water & lured me away from Liberty Mutual. I got a quote to refinance my Legacy currently 2.9% from TD Auto Finance down to 2.25% from USAA. I also just booked a rent-a-car for Thursday through Sunday in Naples (our 10 year anniversary). I then found the auto buying part of the site and got to see the generous Mercedes-Benz rebates! WOW!

Yes.  USAA has a Mercedes E Class incentive for 2015 models of $3500.  Plus another $500 from the Mercedes Club.  That ends up being $4000 under dealer invoice.  All I have to do is print up the two certificates online and present them to the dealership.  I'll print them up the day before I take delivery.

I have tried to get USAA insurance, but it costs twice what I currently pay for Geico.  They are not competitive here in southeast Florida.

Remember, it's Mercedes that provides the incentives, not USAA.  USAA membership is required.  Same for the Mercedes Benz Club.  How do you think I can buy a car every year?  It's because I get them for thousands below invoice.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Farmer, what dealer was that again in Jersey? Since that is where I am, maybe I can stop in and say hi for you, and look at the Mustang. At great personal sacrifice, I will do it, just for you.

LOL, what a friend. It's Tom's Ford in northern NJ.

tommister2

nyccarguy said:

@abacomike‌

My father-in-law recently joined USAA & we in turn joined as well. I've been poking around their website & tried to get car insurance through them. My local ALL STATE agent ended up blowing everyone else out of the water & lured me away from Liberty Mutual.

I got a quote to refinance my Legacy currently 2.9% from TD Auto Finance down to 2.25% from USAA. I also just booked a rent-a-car for Thursday through Sunday in Naples (our 10 year anniversary).

I then found the auto buying part of the site and got to see the generous Mercedes-Benz rebates! WOW!

2.9% seemed a little high even for 72 months. I didn't comment because I wasn't sure about your credit situation. It sounds like the Subaru finance dept made some extra money from you by marking up the rate. My new Mustang was also financed by TD Auto Finance. 1.79% for 60 months. USAA offered me 1.99% for 60 so I told the dealer if they could beat USAA I would take their financing.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

If you lease it could cost less to lease a 2015 model. Keep in mind the 2014 is worth a lot less when you trade it in 3 years from now, and you pay for that in your lease payments.

You will save more on the up front cost on a 2014, because they will give you a discount of $2 or $3K, but one years depreciation could be $4, $5 or even $6K or more. One way it could work to your advantage maybe is lower initial cost, and lower buy back price in 3 years, but still....probably higher monthly payments.

Buying and keeping a 2014 car for 6 years or more could result in savings.

Unless things are really wonky it should cost less to lease a 2015 over a 2014.

I'm not seeing that in the numbers. Looks like the 2014 is about $100/month less than the 2015.

I'm torn because the one I really like is getting up there in price. I might have to live with a black interior.

Maybe GM has caught on and has found it is more important to sell off 2014s than move a 2015. If you consider a lease is paying for the value of the car while you are using it, there is less difference between the cost price and the residual value of a 2015 model....3 years from now.

One other thing....how does the buy back price compare.

It does seem that the car companies are getting smarter. Audi salesman said you could get a great deal on a 2014 if you bought it rather than leased it. Mercedes doesn't announce the new models are on sale until they have sold off most of the 2014s. Could be that GM found a better way to maintain value.

Then again, I could be all wrong. I compared the trade in value for a 2010 and a 2011 bmw 335 4 door with M package....value was $19661 and $20100. So, if you can save over $1500 on the 2014 you would be better off. I don't get that low difference....if I were buying I would sure pay $1500 or $2000 more to get a one year newer car.

driver100

ab348 said: I'm not seeing that in the numbers. Looks like the 2014 is about $100/month less than the 2015.

Mike, do you have any opinions about buying and/or leasing a current year car (2014) when the new models are just coming out (2015)?

Michaell

I don't know the lease numbers in Canada, but here in the US, the 36 month, 15K miles per year lease numbers for the ATS sedan are as follows:

2015 - 1.44% money factor and 54% residual. $360 lease cash.

2014 - 1.18% money factor and 53% residual. Either $2750 or $3150 lease cash, depending on option group.

Certainly an advantage to going with the 2014 at this point -- and I completely agree that these numbers are set up to help clear out 2014 inventory. I'm seeing that with a lot of different makes and models at this time of year.

stickguy

The 2014 accord I just looked at was way cheaper than a 2015 to kease, because the lease cash and overstocked on last model year discount reduce the cap cost so much it more than offset any difference in residual percentage.

nelsonf

I also just booked a rent-a-car for Thursday through Sunday in Naples (our 10 year anniversary).

You're going to drive in Naples? You're a brave man!

When my wife and I were driving through Napoli a few years ago in a taxi, we played a game trying to find cars without dents. It was hard to do.

Good luck, and happy anniversary!

Nelson

stickguy

I assumed it was Naples Fla. but who knows!

driver100

Michaell said:

I don't know the lease numbers in Canada, but here in the US, the 36 month, 15K miles per year lease numbers for the ATS sedan are as follows:

2015 - 1.44% money factor and 54% residual. $360 lease cash.

2014 - 1.18% money factor and 53% residual. Either $2750 or $3150 lease cash, depending on option group.

Certainly an advantage to going with the 2014 at this point -- and I completely agree that these numbers are set up to help clear out 2014 inventory. I'm seeing that with a lot of different makes and models at this time of year.

Thanks for the info Michaell. It would seem if a manufacturer is clearing out the current years models at a good price, then you could be further ahead just going with a current model.

I checked KBB Blue Book in Canada using a Cadillac CTS base model for comparison.
A 2010 would fetch $13910 to $16480 and
a 2011 would fetch $16075 to $18,720.
If buying a car, you have to compare the trade in value down the road to the discount you are getting.

Here is why you really should check this carefully. When I went to buy my 2012 535 in August 2011 the salesman at the first dealer said he would discount the 2011 by $1500.

I bought a 2012 model, not wanting to take a hit when I traded it in 3 or 4 years later.

Here are today's trade in values in Canada;
2011 535Xi $24405 to $27755
2012 535Xi $31250 to $34750

That would be a $7000 hit on depreciation, to save $1500. Even $3000 at the time would sound tempting, but not nearly enough to cover the cost of 1 years depreciation.

driver100

stickguy said:

I assumed it was Naples Fla. but who knows!

That's what I thought too. I would never want to drive a car in Italy, there are no rules, besides, there's too much to see.....and even in a taxi you'll be scared out of your mind watching the traffic.

driver100

Here are today's trade in values in Canada;
2011 535Xi $24405 to $27755
2012 535Xi $31250 to $34750

This may be of interest...or maybe not. When they appraised my car for trading in on the 2015 E400 they immediately came up with $34k. I was satisfied with that, the appraiser was decent coming up with a very fair trade in valuation.

My original run flats needed replacing at 24k miles. I am at 22k miles now, and my tires are fairly worn, they are making a buzzing sound, and I am sure the car will need an alignment. It cost me $2000 last time for tires and an alignment. Maybe it was good I traded when I did. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct.

nyccarguy

Naples, FL. We've never been to Europe. With 3 kids (8, 5 1/2, & 3) it is going to be quite a while before we get there:)

My credit is outstanding. I took the 2.9% from TD Auto Finance for 72 months which matched Subaru's (Chase) 2.9% rate. If I would have taken a 60 month loan, Subaru offered 1.9% financing which I would have qualified for.

snakeweasel

nelsonf said:

I also just booked a rent-a-car for Thursday through Sunday in Naples (our 10 year anniversary). You're going to drive in Naples? You're a brave man! When my wife and I were driving through Napoli a few years ago in a taxi, we played a game trying to find cars without dents. It was hard to do. Good luck, and happy anniversary! Nelson

I have been to Naples and it was no big deal. 

Oh course it was Naples, IL. But I can't tell you much about it, you see I blinked and missed seeing it. 

fezo

Question - if you could get the 1.9% on a 60 month, why not just take the 60 month and pay it off in 48? I've never run into a car loan that had an actual penalty for paying off early.

nyccarguy

I took the 72 month loan with full intention of paying it off early. I'm going to try and refinance my house this summer. It will be our 5th year in the house and mortgage rates have dropped (from the 5 1/8% I pay). I plan to refinance (with a lower interest rate & less principle) for 25 years or even 20 years if they will let me. By doing this, I will also eliminate the PMI (mortgage insurance) I pay every month (that literally goes to nothing). The 3 big things the banks look at are your income, credit, & debt to income ratio.

I work for a business that literally has my name on the door and my Dad as my boss. I get paid with a W2 like everybody else. So needless to say, I get put through the wringer even though my credit is outstanding and my job security is a lock. They scrutinize the debt to income ratio. Even though I can well afford the 1.9% for 60 month payment, it "looks" better to the bank that my "monthly payment" is less.

Our Pilot will be paid off in about 18 months, so once I do that, I can make extra payments on the Legacy.

Mr_Shiftright

In defense of italian drivers, they are crazy, it's true but they are actually pretty good drivers compared to Americans. They take more risks because they have more skill. To be polite in traffic is a form of surrender. On the other hand, once there is a victor clearly established, no one holds a grudge (unlike us).

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

I assumed it was Naples Fla. but who knows!

That's what I thought too. I would never want to drive a car in Italy, there are no rules, besides, there's too much to see.....and even in a taxi you'll be scared out of your mind watching the traffic.

abacomike

driver100 said:

ab348 said: I'm not seeing that in the numbers. Looks like the 2014 is about $100/month less than the 2015. Mike, do you have any opinions about buying and/or leasing a current year car (2014) when the new models are just coming out (2015)?

Usually, the 2014 will lease much better than the 2015 because of outstanding lease incentives from the manufacturer's financial arm (residuals and money factors).

An example is Mercedes Benz leases on 2014 C and E Class vehicles.  All year, a 2014 E Class sedan leased for $599 a month for 36 months.  Now, they lease for $499 a month for 36 months with less out of pocket - due to lease incentives.

Buying or leasing is usually better for end of year sales of cars throughout the industry, in most but not all cases.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

In defense of italian drivers, they are crazy, it's true but they are actually pretty good drivers compared to Americans. They take more risks because they have more skill. To be polite in traffic is a form of surrender. On the other hand, once there is a victor clearly established, no one holds a grudge (unlike us).

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

I assumed it was Naples Fla. but who knows!

That's what I thought too. I would never want to drive a car in Italy, there are no rules, besides, there's too much to see.....and even in a taxi you'll be scared out of your mind watching the traffic.

I agree totally. They know how to drive in Italy, and for that matter in many European countries, much better than we do in North America. It would have taken me 3X as long to get to our destination in Rome, if I was driving. I give Italian drivers a lot of credit, it's not something I would want to attempt though.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said: I'm not seeing that in the numbers. Looks like the 2014 is about $100/month less than the 2015.

Mike, do you have any opinions about buying and/or leasing a current year car (2014) when the new models are just coming out (2015)?

Usually, the 2014 will lease much better than the 2015 because of outstanding lease incentives from the manufacturer's financial arm (residuals and money factors).

An example is Mercedes Benz leases on 2014 C and E Class vehicles.  All year, a 2014 E Class sedan leased for $599 a month for 36 months.  Now, they lease for $499 a month for 36 months with less out of pocket - due to lease incentives.

Buying or leasing is usually better for end of year sales of cars throughout the industry, in most but not all cases.

Thanks for the insight Mike. $100 a month makes a big difference. What about the residual buy back price though?

stickguy

If I buy instead of lease in December, it will be due to cheap long-term financing (say, .9% for 60 or 72). That might get the payment close enough to a cheap lease to make sense. And this time, it will be all about cash flow for the next 3 years!

If I get something I want to keep a long time, I do a side by side analysis of total cost to buy vs. lease and buy out at the end. Then take the cheaper route, unless a major difference in timing of money.

abacomike

@driver100 said:

"Thanks for the insight Mike. $100 a month makes a big difference. What about the residual buy back price though?"

The residuals are usually artificially inflated by the manufacturer's financial arm which reduces monthly payments, however buy out at the end of lease is usually above the ACV (actual cash value) which is wholesale value.  Leasing a 2014 is great so long as you plan on turning in the car at lease end.  It would not be beneficial to buy that car at lease end - in most cases.

nelsonf

Naples, FL. We've never been to Europe.

Oh. Never mind!

Nelson

abacomike

@driver100‌

I got a call from my dealership to inform me that the 2015's have not yet been released for wholesale.  It looks like sometime next week, I hope.  My car has been sitting at the Port of Brunswick, GA, since October 1st.  Once the 2015's are released, it would be one of the first cars shipped out because they are released based upon port arrival dates.

I don't ever remember release dates for Mercedes being so late.

mako1a

How to Lose the Most Money Possible When You Buy a Car

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/2014/10/22/the-worst-way-to-buy-a-car/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=email-2014-10-22&utm_medium=email