Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

qbrozen

I intended on taking Honda's 1.9%/60 mos on the Fit, but in the F&I office, she told me they also had 2.1 for 66 mos. It dropped the payment $20 and increased total interest paid about $159 over the life of the loan. I debated it for a while but opted for the 66 mos only because cheap money is cheap money. And I can still pay it in 60 mos or even less if I choose and it would cost next to nothing for that little bit of extra flexibility.

laurasdada

I went in armed with 2.25% 60 month from my credit union. But dealer beat it with 1.84%/60 months with no prepayment penalty. But, at 1.84%, not sure I want to prepay!

abacomike

mako1a said:

How to Lose the Most Money Possible When You Buy a Car http://www.moneytalksnews.com/2014/10/22/the-worst-way-to-buy-a-car/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=email-2014-10-22&utm_medium=email

No one ever said that buying a new car is a great investment, whether you pay cash or finance the purchase.  There is almost zero chance that a car will appreciate in value let alone maintain its value.

The article does not consider the fact that most buyers of new cars who finance the purchase for 60 months usually (not always) qualify for extremely low simple interest rates (1% - 3% APY) but use inflated rates for 600 FICO score buyers.  

The article is quite skewed because of the data used in the article.  My take on the article is that inflated values were used to bring home the point that buying a new car is the worst investment you could make.  If 700+ FICO scores were used, the data would not be as artificial and thus have limited interest in reading the data used to support their findings.

Additionally, losses in values of new cars from 1-3 years is not taking into consideration the increases in values of used cars in the past several years.

One does not need to read this article to learn what one already knows - buying new cars is not a good investment!

qbrozen

or, more to the point, not an investment at all. It is an expense.

imidazol97

> One does not need to read this article to learn what one already knows - buying new cars is not a good investment!

I'm not sure buying a two-year old car as the article seems to suggest is necessarily great. The car salespeople, bless their hearts, seem to price them high because some people go after that group of used vehicles.

It's probably a car-by-car decision as to whether the two-year old can be purchased at a better relative price than a new one of similar model.

abacomike

qbrozen said:

or, more to the point, not an investment at all. It is an expense.

No question about it.  It's like buying a "service" - once used there is no inherent value remaining.  This, it is an expense, not an investment.  Same it true when you stay at a hotel - you pay for a place to stay - this an expense and not an investment.

Buying a new car over buying a used car would be less of an expense because you are not paying for the depreciated value.  So if you buy a car for basic transportation it is wiser to buy a 2-3 year old car over a new one.  But if you want the latest technology and improved fuel economy, you have to pay more. 

It's all relative!

stickguy

From my looking, certainly at asking prices, a 2 YO car is probably a worse investment if holding for 2-3 years.

qbrozen

as all of us know by now (I hope), its definitely relative, and from so many angles. Cars that depreciate steeply when new usually continue to depreciate steeply up until it gets to be real cheap.

Take a look at a v8 S class. That'll lose about 50% in 2 years. You pick it up for $60k, then 2 years later, its worth $35k. That's still a big hit to your wallet. But pick it up at 4 yrs old for $40k and after 2 years, its worth $25k. A bit better proposition, but you'll be hating those repair/maintenance bills in the meantime.

On the other end, look at my mustang. Its 2 model years old and they are still selling for what I paid for it 2 yrs ago. I suspect my Fit will hold a pretty similar advantage. So neither of those make any sense to buy used.

I never found 2 years to be a good break, though. 3 years generally made more sense. A mazda3 example illustrates that pretty well. New: $25k. 2 yrs old: $20k. 3 yrs: $17k. 4yrs: $15k. So $2500 average drop each of the first 2 years, then $3k at year 3 and down to $2k at year 4. Probably has something to do with most cars going out of bumper-to-bumper after 3 years.

jayrider

stickguy said:

From my looking, certainly at asking prices, a 2 YO car is probably a worse investment if holding for 2-3 years.

Two year old low mileage used cars are still very expensive. Not that great a deal. Now, if you have a two year old car and get a trade-in value --- expect a catastrophic drop from what you paid. You would probably get less from a dealer than you would get sending it directly to auction.
One exception is hybrids like my Prius. Perfectly nice reliable transportation --- they have fallen out of favor -- especially with higher mpg standard drive trains and lower gas prices. The Prius is basically an appliance that has very little visual appeal. Based on my experience with my 4 plus years [39k miles - zero problems] they represent a great value that few will consider. Which makes them an even better value -- especially for college students.

driver100

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

I got a call from my dealership to inform me that the 2015's have not yet been released for wholesale.  It looks like sometime next week, I hope.  My car has been sitting at the Port of Brunswick, GA, since October 1st.  Once the 2015's are released, it would be one of the first cars shipped out because they are released based upon port arrival dates.

I don't ever remember release dates for Mercedes being so late.

My salesman said my car should be in by Nov 1st, which is a Saturday, so I am guessing it will come in on the Thurs or Fri before. He said I would have it before the 7th when we leave for Florida.

Then again a friend told me they have the pricing for the 2015s now. I asked my guy to send me the final invoice so I could figure out how I was going to pay for the car (I'll use our line of credit, prime + 1%). He said he would have it to me Tuesday, but I haven't got it yet and tomorrow is Thursday.

I think the lateness is a new way to sell off 2014s, by not having a new car intro date. It is a clever plan for the car makers....2014s are really selling down. Most people want there car immediately, and don't want to wait a month or two.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Here are today's trade in values in Canada;
2011 535Xi $24405 to $27755
2012 535Xi $31250 to $34750

This may be of interest...or maybe not. When they appraised my car for trading in on the 2015 E400 they immediately came up with $34k. I was satisfied with that, the appraiser was decent coming up with a very fair trade in valuation.

My original run flats needed replacing at 24k miles. I am at 22k miles now, and my tires are fairly worn, they are making a buzzing sound, and I am sure the car will need an alignment. It cost me $2000 last time for tires and an alignment. Maybe it was good I traded when I did. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct.

Yeah and if the ashtrays were full too it's time to get rid of it.

abacomike

@driver100‌

I contacted MBUSA yesterday and spoke with a consumer advocate for Mercedes.  I complained about the late release date and was told someone would contact me today.

I just got off the phone with a consumer affairs specialist from New Jersey, USA headquarters for Mercedes.  She had my VIN number and order number from my dealership and assured me I would hear back from her tomorrow.

She indicated that she was well aware I was a loyal Mercedes owner based upon my purchases since 1987 to the present (15 cars purchased) and further stated that she would investigate the possibility of making sure my car was delivered to my dealership on the first day of wholesale release.  I should know moe by tomorrow.

I really can't expect much more from a manufacturer in the manner they are handling my concern.

I would be happy with a November 1 delivery.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

I got a call from my dealership to inform me that the 2015's have not yet been released for wholesale.  It looks like sometime next week, I hope.  My car has been sitting at the Port of Brunswick, GA, since October 1st.  Once the 2015's are released, it would be one of the first cars shipped out because they are released based upon port arrival dates.

I don't ever remember release dates for Mercedes being so late.

Mike, maybe I haven't been paying attention but are you still in the hospital? Hope you're on the mend,

oldfarmer50

mako1a said:

How to Lose the Most Money Possible When You Buy a Car

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/2014/10/22/the-worst-way-to-buy-a-car/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=email-2014-10-22&utm_medium=email

One question, what the heck is somebody with a 600 credit score doing buying a new car? 7-14% interest? Can you spell STOOPID?

My credit score is 806 and I cry if I buy anything newer than 20 years old for cash.

oldfarmer50

laurasdada said:

I went in armed with 2.25% 60 month from my credit union. But dealer beat it with 1.84%/60 months with no prepayment penalty. But, at 1.84%, not sure I want to prepay!

1.84% is a great rate. Best my credit union offered was 1.9%.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50‌ said:

"Mike, maybe I haven't been paying attention but are you still in the hospital? Hope you're on the mend,"

Thanks for asking OF.

Was released Monday afternoon.  They put me on Leviquin antibiotics 750mg.  7 pills, $195.00.  Unbelievable!

Still have a bad cough and intermittent sweats - but mostly weakness and muscle pain which is a side effect of the antibiotic.

They diagnosed it as bacterial pneumonia even though chest X-rays and CT Scans were negative.  They did a "blood gas" test which showed high levels of CO2 and low levels of oxygen penetration in my blood.  Add that to persistent high fevers and - voila - pneumonia.

They gave me respiratory therapy every 4 hours throughout the day and night.  So, still under the weather even after 6 days in the hospital.

stickguy

Mike, should use your new found power to get them to kick Driver's car loose too!

stickguy

@oldfarmer., I looked up that Ford dealer. Never heard of Keyport. Not that bad a ride for you, right down the garden state. Actually a lot closer to Qbrozen than to me.

they have quite a few listed now, that much be actual alloted cars (if not on the lot) since the window stickers come up. Only 1 modestly loaded GT though (base car, just the performance pack).

And while it may not be the same, dang the V6 is a huge bargain relative.

abacomike

stickguy said:

Mike, should use your new found power to get them to kick Driver's car loose too!

Stick - driver is a Canadian taking delivery in Canada.  My pull is only good here in the USA.  Canada has a different corporate structure than the USA and the cars delivered in Canada are quite different than those delivered in the USA.

An example is that the Canadian E400 is equivalent to the U.S. E350.  The U.S. E400 is equivalent to the Canadian E550.

Thus, the base E Class sedan in Canada is the E400.  Different strokes for different folks!!!

nyccarguy

Since I know many of you fly often, can I bring a tennis racket on board or do you think they'll make us check it?

abacomike

nyccarguy said:

Since I know many of you fly often, can I bring a tennis racket on board or do you think they'll make us check it?

I would check the racket or pack it in a suitcase (best option).  I've seen rackets brought on board, but every airline has different policies.  Call the airline to find out if they allow rackets to be brought onboard.

Weather stinks down here and in Naples.  But it is supposed turn dry with moderating temps this weekend.  I live 90 miles due east of Naples.  You should have great weather beginning Friday evening right through next week.

stickguy

well, per the TSA, maybe? I'm guessing no, since I would think a tennis racket would make a fine bludgeon.

my obsession now with flying is to never check a bag. so yes, I travel light!
???????????????????????????

My TSA
HomeHome
Search Results For:
tennis racket

Check or Carry-on
Sports equipment that can be used as a bludgeon (such as bats and clubs) is prohibited in the cabin of the plane and must be transported in your checked baggage.
For sporting goods that are not prohibited, you should check with the airline to ensure that sports equipment will fit in the overhead bin or underneath the seat of the airplane.

Even if an item is generally permitted, it may be subject to additional screening or not allowed through the checkpoint if it triggers an alarm during the screening process, appears to have been tampered with, or poses other security concerns. The final decision rests with TSA on whether to allow any items on the plane.

nyccarguy

We are traveling to Naples for our 10th anniversary. My wife surprised me with the trip. We haven't been away together (for more than a night) in over 8 years since our 1st child was born. I work 6 days per week, but she REALLY wanted to be away for our 10th anniversary. All I had to do was ask my Dad for 3 days off (which he granted me).

stickguy

and you want to bring a tennis racket? Hmmm.

actually, check the hotel. Maybe they have loaners.

cdnpinhead

nyccarguy said:

Since I know many of you fly often, can I bring a tennis racket on board or do you think they'll make us check it?

I've seen people bringing all kinds of irregularly-shaped stuff on board (guitars, etc.), and so long as there's still room in the overhead, it seems to be no big deal.

However, especially this time of the year (when bulky coats and jackets take up overhead room), it's important to get on the plane early. Unless you fly enough to get preferential treatment, it's pot luck whether there'll be enough space left when you board.

Good luck.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Here are today's trade in values in Canada;
2011 535Xi $24405 to $27755
2012 535Xi $31250 to $34750

This may be of interest...or maybe not. When they appraised my car for trading in on the 2015 E400 they immediately came up with $34k. I was satisfied with that, the appraiser was decent coming up with a very fair trade in valuation.

My original run flats needed replacing at 24k miles. I am at 22k miles now, and my tires are fairly worn, they are making a buzzing sound, and I am sure the car will need an alignment. It cost me $2000 last time for tires and an alignment. Maybe it was good I traded when I did. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct.

Yeah and if the ashtrays were full too it's time to get rid of it.

I don't smoke....ashtrays have never had an ash put in them.

driver100

stickguy said:

Mike, should use your new found power to get them to kick Driver's car loose too!

Yah! Good idea stick.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:
Yeah and if the ashtrays were full too it's time to get rid of it

One more thought. One friend has a 2007 Mercedes ML350 which is the larger SUV.


He was looking at replacing it but just didn't find anything he wanted. He was leaning toward getting a used GKL


He had noises from the transmission in the 2007. Cost to repair will be $7000....engine comes out. He wishes he had traded in the ML350 a few weeks ago.

That money would have been better spent going into a newer vehicle.

Unfortunately, this friend broke the "Driver Rule of Buying Expensive European Cars";

Only buy one if it is under warranty....and if you have the funds to keep it running.

robr2

nyccarguy said:

Since I know many of you fly often, can I bring a tennis racket on board or do you think they'll make us check it?

Yes according to this:

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/assets/prohibiteditems_brochure.pdf

But keep in mind it has to be in a bag that meets the airline standards which is no longer than 22".

driver100

nyccarguy said:

We are traveling to Naples for our 10th anniversary. My wife surprised me with the trip. We haven't been away together (for more than a night) in over 8 years since our 1st child was born. I work 6 days per week, but she REALLY wanted to be away for our 10th anniversary. All I had to do was ask my Dad for 3 days off (which he granted me).

We have brought tennis racquets aboard a flight, in a large suitcase (26 inch cases can vary in size, sometimes a racquet can fit, sometimes not - be sure to test). It seems to me a tennis racquet could be considered a weapon....though I can't imagine how.

Have a great vacation.......you deserve it!

graphicguy

OK.....someone talk me out of this. I'm considering doing something I swore I'd never do......EVER AGAIN!

So. sitting with my sweetheart last night talking about the tax implications of our nuptials.....scintilating conversation, I know. I get a call from the Cadillac dealer who I swore I'd never do business with (for the newer people here, this dealer tried to take advantage of my late Mother....on top of that...the car they sold her was the very definition of a LEMON). This all transpired 8-9 years ago.

They had my name in their database as a customer who they had in some sort of inactive file. They were reaching out under the premise of updating their database.

Cut to the chase, it was a sales lady who called. At first, I told her they had a lot of nerve contacting me. But, to her credit, instead of just saying "wooops, you're a no sale....time to move on to the next person.", she wanted to hear the story. So, I told her. After many "oh my" statements, She apologized several times during the conversation (which was the very first time I had received any sort of apology for the way we were treated by the dealership.

She wanted to know if she could apologize to my Mother, then I informed her my Mother passed away. Well, there was an uneasy moment of silence until I said again, the issue wasn't hers. She kept bending over backwards apologizing again and again. She didn't ask me for any more information.

About 20 minutes later, I received a phone call from the owner. Understand, this is not a dealership that's huge, or part of a large conglomerate or group of dealerships. This is their one and only dealership. So, while stating the owner called me only means his customers for Cadillacs are the only ones he has.

He said the sales lady forwarded a synopsis of our conversation to him (he said he was calling me from home) and he personally wanted to call and apologize. He said he knew who the sales manager was then They had such an issue with him and that they parted ways just a few months after my fiasco. He said it's all family now who are in management. I told him I appreciated the phone call. Being in the car business, he said if I was ever in the market again, he would personally make a deal at true dealer cost.

So, sales lady who originally called me calls again this a.m. letting me know that the owner wanted her to follow up to see if I had any questions. I have been sort of interested in the ATS and CTS. I told her I'm not in the market, but would love to see true cost on an ATS and CTS turbo AWD performance edition with upgraded stereo, sunroof, nav, leather.

She says she'll call me back as the deal has to be run through the owner.

Long and short of it. she came back with a price that is way back of invoice. They have $4K in incentives from GM. Looks like they subtracted holdback (3%), and there must be some other money I don't know about because it's still back of that number. Or, right around $10K off MSRP on a brand new CTS. I asked her for ATS numbers which I haven't received yet.

Boy, I'm torn between my promise to myself and the lure of an outstanding deal. I'm test driving the CTS tonight, as I've already test driven the ATS.

Peanut gallery?

abacomike

@graphicguy‌ said:

"Peanut gallery?"

GG, if you need/want/desire a new CADILLAC, definitely go for it!  But I would caution one thing - check one other dealer on the same car and same MSRP to see if they will match or beat the price.  That way, you know if the dealer is on the up-and-up.

My guess is that they won't, but just for your own edification, check the price at least at one other dealer.

stickguy

Hard to see beating that deal. But, only a goid deal if you actually want what you are buying (ignoring need, since that horse long since left the barn).

So I say drive the cts. If you honestly like it better than the TL and would rather own the caddy, go for it. If not, thank them and say you aren't ready but in a couple of years might be back.

Certainly good customer service finally. And shows how one bad employee can torpedo a business.

Michaell

@graphicguy‌

You've proclaimed your current TL to be almost perfect .. why would you switch it out for a brand and a model you've had an issue with?

Maybe when you're ready to move on from the TL, but I get the impression that might be a year or two down the road.

graphicguy

All good comments. I appreciate them.

Stick....buy for need? What's that? In this place?

Michaell, you make a very good point. I do love my TL. Not that it matters with an Acura, but it's about 2 years old, now. That's nothing for a Honda/Acura product.....not even broken in yet.

They haven't seen it yet, but they asked about any trade. I gave them the VIN...told them mileage, condition (which is actually as close to new without being new) always garaged, etc. They came back with a number (pending inspection to confer it's as nice as I say it is) that's $6K less than what I paid for it....for a two year old TL. That's a strong number. That means I bought it right and that they hold their value well.

On the other hand, I was planning to start looking in a year or two at the TLX. So, I might stick to that plan.

The time I did test drive the ATS, I was impressed. I have not driven a CTS, yet. I've seen them on the road. Sexy looking cars.

Mike....good advice. Thanks. I'll shop them a bit.....keep everyone honest.

Like the Lincoln place, these guys offer pick up and delivery for service....even oil changes. Maintenance free for 4 year bumper to bumper warranty period. Their motor runs RUG instead of PUG (not a huge deal, I know).

I'll listen to what they have to say.

qbrozen

Ok, my personal and totally un-test-driven opinion? Caddy trumps Acura. Hell, its RWD. Acura is still a luxo-poseur, IMHO, and quite boring in comparison. I would just check it against truecar and see just how much extra you'd really be saving.

As far as that dealer, I'm pretty impressed they stepped up like that and went through all the trouble for this one phone call. I try to never hold one transaction against a dealership because, as we all know, you can't control all of your employees. Sure, if you find out the actual owner is a [non-permissible content removed], all bets are off, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

mako1a

My instinct says CTS-Yes, ATS-No. Just from reading reviews from owners (ATS is the number one complaint car). I haven't driven a Caddy since the SLS. Even it lost out to the Olds Aurora. I used to like luxos, but went sporty and never looked back.

driver100

graphicguy said:

OK.....someone talk me out of this. I'm considering doing something I swore I'd never do......EVER AGAIN!
Peanut gallery?

GG, All comments here are good...I would only add;

If the dealer is on the up and up they will understand if you say your car is only 2 years old and you will give them a try in about 12 months when you will be looking. If they are legit they will honor their price then.

You may want to compare a 2015 Acura and see how it compares, driving and for price.

It's a great deal, but, only if that is the car you really want.

Their price seems good....you can check it out on Edmunds to see if price is good.

If it is a 2015 that's better, if it is a 2014.....hmmm, may not be such a great deal.

It's a dilemna! Don't just buy because they made you an offer you can't refuse.

qbrozen

Don't just buy because they made you an offer you can't refuse.

Well, if he CAN'T refuse, that's the end of the discussion.

Mr_Shiftright

IMO this is the kind of situation where you sleep on it at least a week and let an answer deliver itself to you. Either your enthusiasm will wane or it'll be persistent by then. "Desire distorts the object of the desire"---believing in this, I let the object spring back to its normal shape and then look it over

If it still looks mighty good, well then, damn!

stickguy

I would think the cts will be a way more satisfying car, especially after a TL. ATS is kind of tight.

abacomike

@driver100‌

Just got a call from MBUSA to inform me that my E400 was put on a truck at their request and is on its way down I-95 to my dealership.  That means it should arrive there later today or early tomorrow morning.  FINALLY!

Kirstie_H

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/30352/general/x/haggling-is-absurd-edmunds-com-video
This is a pretty fun video of our latest ad campaign. I like it better than what we had previously.

bwia

graphicguy said:

OK.....someone talk me out of this. I'm considering doing something I swore I'd never do......EVER AGAIN!

About 20 minutes later, I received a phone call from the owner. Understand, this is not a dealership that's huge, or part of a large conglomerate or group of dealerships. This is their one and only dealership. So, while stating the owner called me only means his customers for Cadillacs are the only ones he has.

Boy, I'm torn between my promise to myself and the lure of an outstanding deal. I'm test driving the CTS tonight, as I've already test driven the ATS.

Peanut gallery?

Regardless of your decision you should send this saleswoman a thank-you note and perhaps a small potted flowering plant. The aim of every business is to delight the customer; and since the sales staff are the ones in most direct contact with the customer, it is nice to let them know that they are appreciated.

That gesture from the saleswoman and owner were not only the right thing to do but it was cathartic for you as well. And finally you've brought closure to decade's old issue that probably irritated you to the N-th. degree.

houdini1

graphicguy said:

All good comments. I appreciate them.

Stick....buy for need? What's that? In this place?

Michaell, you make a very good point. I do love my TL. Not that it matters with an Acura, but it's about 2 years old, now. That's nothing for a Honda/Acura product.....not even broken in yet.

They haven't seen it yet, but they asked about any trade. I gave them the VIN...told them mileage, condition (which is actually as close to new without being new) always garaged, etc. They came back with a number (pending inspection to confer it's as nice as I say it is) that's $6K less than what I paid for it....for a two year old TL. That's a strong number. That means I bought it right and that they hold their value well.

On the other hand, I was planning to start looking in a year or two at the TLX. So, I might stick to that plan.

The time I did test drive the ATS, I was impressed. I have not driven a CTS, yet. I've seen them on the road. Sexy looking cars.

Mike....good advice. Thanks. I'll shop them a bit.....keep everyone honest.

Like the Lincoln place, these guys offer pick up and delivery for service....even oil changes. Maintenance free for 4 year bumper to bumper warranty period. Their motor runs RUG instead of PUG (not a huge deal, I know).

I'll listen to what they have to say.

Everything I have read about the new TLX has been very positive. Are they at the dealers yet? You should at least drive one before you make your decision on the Caddy. Loaded up, the TLX is in the low 40's I think.

Also, where was the owner 9 years ago?

qbrozen

Kirstie_H said:

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/30352/general/x/haggling-is-absurd-edmunds-com-video
This is a pretty fun video of our latest ad campaign. I like it better than what we had previously.

Wish they had used another analogy. Its too close to the recent Geico ad.

stickguy

Mike, they are gonna be really ticked off when you decide you don't want it after all!

abacomike

stickguy said:

Mike, they are gonna be really ticked off when you decide you don't want it after all!

I already spoke with the manager who wanted to know how I managed getting the car released - "...I can't get that done...who do you know up there?"

In any case, I will drive up there with my title and incentive certificates once the car is ready and I will drive it first.  Chances are I will trade the CLS in for the E400.  After analyzing the pros and cons, it's the right decision.

Besides, they'll kill me if I don't get it after all the to-do's i initiated.

ab348

Kirstie_H said:

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/30352/general/x/haggling-is-absurd-edmunds-com-video
This is a pretty fun video of our latest ad campaign. I like it better than what we had previously.

"this video has been removed by the user".

It has to be better than "Carheads".

stever

Here's the YouTube link. Just worked for me.

Gotta run - off to buy the Ferrari of tuna fish....