Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

iwantone

HOW CAN ANYONE EXPECT MANMADE MACHINES TO BE PERFECT.? HONDA CAN NOT BUILD A PERFECT CAR. HONDA IS NOT THE ONLY CAR THAT HAS PROBLEMS IF
SO THERE WOULD BE ONLY POSTS FROM HONDA OWNERS. THE QUALITY OF EVERYTHING HAS GONE DOWN - CARS, EQUIPMENT, FOOD AND CLOTHING. MASS
PRODUCTION HAS SOME DRAWBACKS. WE GET MORE AND WE LOST SOMETHING. IMPERFECT HUMANS ARE DESIGNING THESE IMPERFECT NEW CARS REMEMBER THAT.

anselmo1

It is not that Honda quality is sub-par but that Honda quality is slipping. When you start cutting corners, this happens in the best of automobiles. Just take a look at the EX V-6 exhaust for example. Paint chipping off the mufflers is so common that Honda wants you to just accept it. A $25,000 car without chrome exhaust extenders? Honda wants you to now buy them as an option where back in 1995 they were standard even on the LX! As far as the wind whistle is concerned, Hondas have had that problem since 1994 on the Accords and they still haven't corrected it! The V-6 transmission problems in the Accord since 1998 still haven't been addressed since they are still occurring!Blaming a transmission supplier for a few faulty units? Why is it still happening then? The Accord is a good car but it is not a great car anymore. Go to Consumer Reports and check where it stands in reliability as indicated in the April 2001 annual auto issue. It is not #1! The complaint file at the NHSTA has ballooned on the Accord since 1998. The complaints that are posted there over and over indicate that the 6th Generation Accord is the most troublesome Accord ever regarding complaints filed.

isellhondas

Whatever...black paint chipping off the back of a muffler? Wow! that's a BIG DEAL!!

Didn't know the transmission problem was "still" happening. Thanks for letting us know.

I sure love my 99 EX-V6 coupe! It does NOTHING wrong and is a dream to drive...wait...I better go check the paint on my mufflers! Where's the heat resistant Krylon when I need it?

Anselmo...my point is this, and ONLY this...

If you don't like Hondas...GREAT! Buy something else!

ripinrocket

Paint on the rear muffler peels on just about every car. I've even seen Toyota's with peeling muffler paint. That's no big deal! If you don't like it, paint it again, or strip the paint completely off or get some nice aftermarket mufflers, like I did.

mikefm58

Long append....

I just have to post my 2 cents worth here. I bought my first Honda (an Odyssey) in Nov. 1998 after owning nothing but Chevy, Ford, and Chryslers. I bought my second Honda (a CRV) in May 1999 and my third Honda (an Accord) just last week. I traded in the 1999 Odyssey (26K miles) on the Accord. The Odyssey was bought new in Nov. 1998 for $23600 and traded in for $19500. Held it's value pretty good huh? You should see what the "best selling" Chrysler Town & Country mini-van goes for. Had I bought that instead of the Odyssey, I'd have taken a killing on the trade-in.

I did have a few problems with the Odyssey, brakes and alignment several times, cost me $65. out of my pocket in the 2 1/2 years I owned it, that is other than the Honda recommended maintenance items.

My CRV is the first and only vehicle that I NEVER had to take it to the dealer for even one minor problem. I've had the recommended maintenance done religiously. You should see people [non-permissible content removed] and moan on the CRV forum about the CRV not being a true SUV and lacking power. Hell, that's well known. It's not designed to be a true SUV and the horsepower and torque numbers are right there to see. It's designed to be a run-about vehicle that won't break down or get stuck in normal on-road driving. In my opinion Honda far exceeded my expectations with my CRV.

The other vehicles I owned prior to my Hondas didn't hold any value, some were more reliable than others, but not nearly as reliable as the Hondas I've owned.

I also see a huge difference with the dealer and manufacturer in terms of my customer satisfaction. Hell, I never heard at all from the American manufacturer or the dealer after I bought the car. Both the Honda dealer and American Honda "badger" me constantly about my experience after buying each of the Hondas and also after servicing the Odyssey.

It's a tough job for Honda to better the Accord each time a new generation comes out. But it still beats any GM, Ford, or Chrysler out there in term of reliability and resale value. That's what counts.

I've rambled on enough, give isellhondas a break, go buy a Ford Explorer with the Firestone tires.

isellhondas

Coming from a non sales type, people might believe you.

BTW, the depreciation in Chrysler minivans is perhaps worse than you think. We are getting buy bids for 2000-2500 below wholesale on these!

scottdude

Well I'm seriously considering buying an Accord so this topic is very interesting. I haven't heard anyone suggest another car as good as the Accord in the same price range, so I guess the overall theme is that all cars are getting worse and that I should buy used.

I will say that I have owned a Civic for the last five years and it has never been in the shop for anything other than an oil change! In fact, I think I've only opened up the hood myself twice in all that time just to add some windshield wiper fluid. The only reason I want to trade this car is because the acceration stinks and I want more room. The older Accords just don't get me excited like the new coupes, so I guess I'll roll the dice and take my chances.

dc_sports_rule

Here is a list of cars that overall are better than the Honda Accord according to Consumer Reports magazine:1. VW Passat2. Toyota Camry3. Nissan MaximaReliability and frequency of repair are far listed above the Accord.The first year Odyssey under the new design was quite troublesome. The 2001 Odyssey was listed as tops by Consumer Reports with only average reliability.The CRV is a good mini SUV but it is beaten out by the RAV4 and the Subaru Forester in CSU ratings each year.Chrysler products have always had one of the highest deprecation rates in the industry.(esceptions being the Proexceptionsr and their new retro mini) You take a beating when you drive the vehicle new off the lot. And talk about transmissions, Chrysler has the worst in the industry. Everyone knows of these facts. The Accord Coupe is a very nice looking car. I would take the I-4 over the V-6 due to the tranmission problems encounttransmission V-6.As far as chipping paint on the Accord muffler, it looks tackey on a new car. I don't care what anybody says. It looks like another design flaw or supplier problem. Maybe Honda is getting them from the same supplier of Toyota? Yes, I have seen their chipping muffler paint also.Just thought I would throw in my two cents. By the way, I do not sell Hondas for a living or affiliated with Honda America.

jackiele

Please don't ever let anyone think that the VW Passat is better than the Accord. That car is the biggest POS ever made. They have more issues than my ex mother-in-law! I'm the proud owner of a new Accord EX-6. I absolutely love it. When I turn it on in the morning I sometimes have to listen very carefully to make sure that it's running - it's soooo quiet. No rattles, squeaks, nothing...just a perfect beautiful car. It's a car that you can't go wrong with - and, it will always hold it's resale value. This car is the biggest bargain yet!

neil73

I was intrigued by this topic since I have had 105K trouble-free miles with my 1996 Honda Accord LX. For the price and it's purpose I just don't see any reason to chose another model over the Accord. I don't expect a car to be perfect but after 5 years of ownership I have never been hit with a major repair bill and everything still works properly. I'll buy another Accord. Can't say the same for the Chevy sold. BTW, my Accord was built in Marysville, Ohio.

mikefm58

One more note on this subject. Only Honda with it's huge parts database of all models and years can come up with accurate quality numbers. Those of us who rely on our own experiences and sharing information with others may get a different perception of Honda quality than what is actually real. Those of you that are on your second Accord and are experiencing more problems than your first Accord will feel Honda quality is slipping. Also remember, the internet wasn't around 5 years ago the way it is now so there wasn't information sharing like we have with this forum. The internet contains a wealth of information, and also mis-information, so be careful.

You folks have been great, keep sharing your experiences and ideas.

gonzo1124

I have had 6 Honda's in the last 20-years. Civics Accords and Preludes. My experience has been this...NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM!!! All I have done is change the oil/filter, batteries, and after some miles on them, brakes tires and timing belts. (I wish I could say the same thing about other cars I owned during this period also). 20 years of not problems...yes I think I'll buy another one.
Gonzo

dkrab

I have owned a 94 dx, 96 lx, and I still own a 98 LX, all with 4cyl, 5sp., all built in Ohio. I will list the problems encountered and let the readers draw their own conclusions:

94DX:
Misaligned drivers door (dealer said it was close enough, I fixed it myself)
Noisy power steering at low speeds (characteristic of the car, not a reliability issue)
Creaking air intake box (fixed under TSB)
Clutch judder upon engagement when cold (charateristic of car, not correctable)
Crack in engine block where exhaust manifold bolts to it (Honda replaced short block under warranty, factory man said he has seen a few like it)
Wrecked at 34K, just when I had it like I wanted it!

96LX:
Clutch judder when cold (characteristic of the car, not correctable)
Power steering noise at low speed (characteristic, uncorrectable)
Stolen at 36K

98LX:
Clutch judder when cold (what can I say?)
Clutch master cylinder made scrunching noise when stroked (replaced under warranty 4 times, last one was the charm when a redesigned unit was installed under a tech. service bulletin)
Power steering fluid leak at rack (rack replaced under warranty)
Body creaks in B pillar drivers side and rear package tray (corrected under warranty)
Trunk lid misaligned (corrected myself)
Still own it at 67K miles, drives like new, and will own it until someone steals it from me or it gets wrecked. Maybe I'll get a chance to wear this one out some day.

Paint on all Hondas above has been thin and easily damaged by bug guts and bird droppings.

In defense of VW, the best car I have ever owned was a 85 Quantum 5 cylinder. 125K with very few problems. Tight, rattle free. I wish I had never sold that car! Much better paint than Honda, too. I seriously doubt the current Passat is a POS. I drove one, and it drives better than the Accord (subjective opinion, but hey, I'm entitled!) Still, Honda will likely have much lower overall cost of ownership.

anselmo1

I agree, the Accord paint and clearcoat is one of the thinnest in the industry. I also have noted that the sheet metal seems to be a lot thinner than its competitors.

pblevine

I'll agree that my Accord Coupe '98 EX V6 is a very good car, and yes, the engine is both great and quiet too. The paint now being used, however, is another story.

Isellhondas: If you remember the good olde Acura Legend, that was a great car. My brother-in-law's '90 Legend is still going strong with about 500,000 miles on it! The paint on that car was much thicker, and more coats, and each coat was much longer lasting. On my car, the slightest little pepple or hard piece of sand hitting my car will leave a little pock mark cutting right through the clear coat and paint. My "counter measures" now include touch-up paint and losts of Zaino.

ravyn

sending out my letter to the president of american honda today after exhausting all local options. previously i'd posted about paint problems on my '00 coupe and commiserated with several other unhappy owners. i now have two independent appraisals stating that the paint has poor adherance to the substrate and metal and upon closer inspection with a lighted magnifier, is actually shattering, not just chipping...an indicator of several possible problems with the paint process. cross your fingers, and we'll see what certified mail gets me.

isellhondas

Wow! 500,000 miles !! Pretty impressive.

The paint on the leading edge of the hood on my 99 Accord V-6 Coupe (black) has it's fair share of chips also. As I look at the hoods of late model other make trade ins I see similar chips.

Last night I took in a 2000 Sebring Convertable with 17K. It has it's fair share of chips too.

So, I don't know...I'll probably get my hood "fogged" soon and start the chip process all over.

lugwrench

I have noticed a lot of 1998-2001 Accords with a lot of paint chips on the front of the vehicle. Most noticeable of course is the hood on black Accords. This issue of paint shattering on the Accords probably makes lot of sense. When you try to cut corners to save a few dollars on the bottom line, this happens. Ford back in the mid 1970's had a tremendous problem with paint chipping on their cars. It was later found out that one of the executives at Ford made an arrangement with their paint supplier to "cut" the paint. Hey maybe Honda hired this old Ford executive to handle their paint purchasing? Honda definitely is cutting corners to keep their cars competitive.

isellhondas

I see as many chips on the older Accords.

But, I guess if you want to think quality has slipped you'll notice more chips I guess.

I also see chips on Buicks, Toyotas, Fords and Studebakers. A rock WILL chip paint!

dash400m

To date, the paint quality on my raisin pearl '98 Accord (4cyl/4dr) has held to its high standard. Heck, I'm just glad these cars don't rust out anymore!

This Accord has been flawless to its present 50,000 miles. Yep, it'll go 200,000+.

dc_sports_rule

I am curious to know if your Accord was made in the United States or Japan? Personally, I have noticed Accords with Japanese Vin #'s seem to have better fit and finish as compared to those built in Ohio.

ravyn

i think it's great that you're enthusiastic about the cars you sell. i've also been a big honda enthusiast for many years, but it's almost to the point that you're taking the comments made here personally. you don't have to neigh-say everyone's opinion. this particular board is about quality control, and people's different experiences with their cars. it's especially nice when people have had more than one honda in their lifetime and have something to compare the newer ones to.

we have an '88 accord, white, that doesn't have chips on it at all. driven up and down the east coast by several different people in my family. sure it's got dings and some dents, and yes, the paint is starting to crack in certain places-due to age, but CHIPS? no. there aren't any chips.

and as to other companies, my brother has a '97 camaro, black, driven all over virginia, with maybe 2 chips.

i would really like to think that honda quality isn't slipping. and perhaps overall it isn't. but you're bound to get a few lemons in any car company, especially with the volume of cars that are built now.

anselmo1

Your comments are well said and to the point. This is a board discussing Accord quality control. Accord owner's experiences and comparisons are what this topic is all about.

pbagrat

My 2001 Accord LX V6 has a few "bubbles" sticking up from the paint. They have not ruptured, but this doesn't seem right. I've purchased four new vehicles in my lifetime so far and never seen this. I assume this would be covered by the rust warranty wouldn't it?

lugwrench

Definitely take the car back to the dealership and show the service manager.This is not normal and Honda will correct the problem for you under warranty. I would suggest to take it to the dealership as soon as possible.

isellhondas

Yep, a good post. I take nothing personally. Some balance is needed in these forums I believe and I tell it as I see it.

Heck, I've even defended Toyota, my biggest competitor in other forums.

dash400m

My Accord was made in the U.S. Funny thing -- raisin pearl (plum) wasn't the most popular color, and I believe that it's been discontinued [?]. It's been a great car.

I've driven Civics on and off since '74. Empirically, I believe that the Japanese Civics are better than the U.S. versions. I have two Civic Wagons; an '85 with 245,000 miles (new engine installed at ~240,000 miles), and an '89 with 173,000 miles. Both look near-new. OK, so this is an Accord forum...

BTW: I know an individual in Fauquier County, VA who has an '87 Accord (Japanese/LX-i [?]) with 405,000 miles. This car is well maintained, and has never had any problems associated with the engine.

Keep the great topics going.

qqq

I've noticed on the 4 cylinder 2001 Accords (2 or 4 door) in the SF Bay area (even brand new!) that if you look underneath from the back of the car that a) the round bar that welds to the back left of the muffler is rusted, and b) if you look further forward (in the middle in line with the back tires) there are two vertically aligned bolts and the bottom one is rusted as is the bar attached to it.

My questions are:

1. Is this only for 2001 4 cylinder Accords in the Bay Area? (Owner's can you take a look and let us all know about your vehicle?)
2. Is this normal? (Doesn't seem like it!)
3. Is it cosmetic?

Thanks.

isellhondas

That only happens in the Bay Area. From Vacaville north and Salinas south you won't have that problem.

isellhondas

Just heard a report...it's been spotted as far east as Antioch.

qqq

Let's stick to the issue, as opposed to belittling it since you sell Honda's and don't want to admit it's an issue with rust.

lugwrench

It happens and noticed it in the area I live in. When Honda cheapened up their exhaust system, you can see it on the welds from the muffler to the tail pipe. Has Honda not galvanized the whole undercarriage of the vehicle excluding the exhaust system? Cutting corners in the manufacturing process will result in the rust you are talking about.

anselmo1

Honda had an engineering design flaw on he 1995 Accords. If you live in the Northeastern USA or Canada where a lot of rock salt is used during the winter, you will see Accords have a rust problem on the upper rear wheel wells. A collision shop owner pointed this out to me once since water collects and sits in that area which causes rust. Add rock salt to the mix and you have rust. Strange that it happens exactly 5 years expires on the rust threw warranty.

isellhondas

Of course I was attempting to interject a bit of humor.

The truth is, I have no idea what you are talking about. Here in Seattle we get a LOT more rain (like today) then you get in the Bay Area.

Of course I follow behind a lot of Accords and I've noticed nothing like you have described. Are you crawling under the cars or something?

I'll take a look at some Accords that are up on the lift in our shop.

Someone else mentioned the black paint peeling off the back of the mufflers on V-6 Accords.

Again, something I had never noticed or cared about. BUT!! I took a close look at my own V-6 Coupe and...HORRORS...one of the mufflers has a slight bit of peeling paint!

I'm a pretty fussy guy....but...big deal!

So, first nice sunny day I'm off I might buy a can of heat resistant flat black paint...psst..fixed!

Rust on exhaust bolts BTW, hurts nothing.

qqq

My point was that it was for 4cylinder Accords only, brand new on the lot there is rust...doesn't sound right to me. Just wish some other owners would pipe up on this issue.

isellhondas

Since you've posted the same message in several other boards.

I think you are looking at surface rusting on the exhaust bolts. I'll look today when I get to work.

I'll report what I see.

lugwrench

As anyone can tell you, service rust can lead into body and metal rust. Usually, those bolts in question are galvanized on the under carriage of the auto. Maybe Honda is cutting corners on the galvanization process. By the way, isellhondas, I read reply regarding the chipping off of the black paint on your Accord's muffler. That is the first defect that you have admitted to on this board or any board. Congratulations!

isellhondas

Yeah...isn't that horrible? A 1" square of chipped off paint...on a stupid muffler of all things! A terrible "defect" after 38,000 miles.

I'll continue to "admit" to any other terrible things that I find. In the meantime, I'm sure a couple of Honda haters will be able to nake a great big deal out of other minor things.

I have nothing to gain by not agreeing with people who think the sky is falling.

isellhondas

They probably would have been smarter to simply not paint the mufflers in the first place.

Anybody would know the paint will eventually peel from the heat.

That way, nobody could call that a "defect"!

qqq

Now that you've had a chance to take a look at work, what's it look like in terms of underside rust? You mentioned yesterday you would take a look...

fritz1224

I had car serviced today and mentioned the way the fuel gauge acted. Service writer patiently listened to my description of its characteristics and said they would look at it. When I picked up the car paper work showed fuel sending unit replaced. I asked him if this was a common problem and he answered with a rather evasive "yes". I also asked if honda had redesigned this part and he said they did something because the 2001 have not had the problem. Any truth to that? Mine's a 2k lx v6.

lugwrench

When are you going to "admit" to the V-6 Accord transmission problems that you say are isolated. Probably no big deal to you but how about the poor guy when he gets 40K on his V-6 and the transmission fails? Does Honda know something since they have a 3 year 36K powertrain warranty? Do you think Honda will give that guy a free fix under their one time "good will gesture" program? I think not!By the way, have you checked yet for the undercarriage rust yet? We would all like to know!

fritz1224

was in stock. No need to order. Had it replaced in half hour. Funny, I always thought that due to limited space, service depts. only stocked parts they regularly replace and have to order the rarely replaced ones. Is this an indication of the frequency of this problem? I think so.

mikeg61

I've owned Hondas since 1984, and in total members of my family have owned 15. My 1994 Accord, which was the first I'd bought that was built in Marysville, OH, was delivered with a leaking axle seal and a split CV boot. At 1,000 miles, the right axle needed to be replaced because it was out of round. At about 10,000 the left tie rod end gave out. I've also had 3 fuel gauge sending units replaced. From 15,000 to 90,000 miles there were few problems.

At 87,000 I had the water pump and timing belt done, and the balance shaft seal let go less than 4,000 miles later, spewing oil all over the timing belt. Fortunately, this happened in my driveway, so the engine didn't seize. This was in 1998, before the TSB and retainer clip silent recall. I've been fighting with Honda since November trying to get reimbursed for the cost of a new timing belt, seals and labor. Honda has one of the weakest B2B warranties in the business, especially for powertrain. After the experience with this car and Honda's "customer service", think I'm going to buy another one? Naaah.

bolivar

I'm so glad several people have brought my attention to the possibility of rust on the undersides of my car.

I have just returned from my garage and crawling under my 1994 Ford Ranger pickup.

HORRORS!!!!! There is rust, grease smears, road oil and grit, and it appears there is even a large amount of dirt under there!!!!!! Not just on the muffler and exhaust, but the frame and entire sheet metal from front to back.

I hope I can calm down some. When I can regain some of my composure, I'm going back out to the garage again. It will probably take the use of my floor jack, but I'm going under my Cadillac next. I'LL BE EXPECTING A MUCH CLEANER AND RUST FREE ENVIRONMENT THERE! AFTER ALL IT IS A CADILLAC! Rust on the bottom of Hondas and Fords might be expected, but Cadillac had better shine!

lancerfixer

Yeah, the underside will shine, but I'll bet good money the body panels won't be aligned right, the dash will squeak, etc.

lugwrench

Honda should reimburse you as long as you have your receipts. Same thing happened to my friend's 1994 Accord with 240K on the odometer. Happened in his driveway also! This was before the Honda notice. When he the notice about the retainer clip was sent to him by Honda, he sent in the receipts and he was reimbursed. This did include the timing belt since it was ruined by the seal blowing.

isellhondas

I was pretty busy at work yesterday and I'm off today. I did follow a new Accord that was ahead of me on a demo drive and I didn't see any rust.

I'm off today but I'll try to look tomorrow.

lugnut...I'm sooooo sick of explaining this again and again and again...BUT...

Some Odysseys and V-6 Accords were affected with a glitch in their transmissions. This problem didn't cause a failure, but resulted in a "thunk" or a "clunk" while in reverse. Some of these experienced some kind of a "shudder" at certain speeds. A vendor changed a part in these transmissions without telling Honda. They basically got blindsided by this.

This only applied to some cars that were built during a certain time frame.

And they were fixed, no charge, under warranty.

and, lugwrench, I'm sure you won't believe this...but, I have NEVER heard this "clunk". I have literally backed up hundreds of these cars too. I own a 99 V-6 EX Coupe with 38,000 miles and it's as perfect as a car can be...no, wait...I have a postage stamp size of paint chipping off one of the mufflers...sorry.

Now, if you want to talk about bad transmissions, I can give you a list.

lugwrench

You are a salesman and paid to sell Honda Accord V-6's. We all understand your concerns but why is it that it is a continuing problem regarding the V-6 transmission? It started in 1998 and has continued on V-6 Accords through 2001? Same supplier or just a poorly engineered transmission?
Who wants a transmission that clunks? Who wants to fear the horrible thought of transmission failure? Isellhondas, I suggest you do a little more research regarding the transmission issue. It is an ongoing problem and Honda has made attempts to correct the problem in the manufacturing process to no avail.

isellhondas

And several others here have told you this. Yes,I do sell Hondas. I get the feeling you may also sell some other brand of cars.

You can believe whatever you wish. Teh problem is NOT ongoing.