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Honda Accord Quality Control Issues
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Comments
As I've stated before when this forum started, only Honda knows the true reliability numbers of every part it puts in it's cars. For my money, Honda is still one of the best values out there.
My son has a Ford truck, sheesh, you should see the number of forums I've seen complaining of Ford quality.
I just try to tell things as I see them and do appreciate the support.
Thanks!
As far as me personally being a bully isellhondas, you are grossly mistaken. You point of view is appreciated to some degree but your denial of problems regarding Honda Accords is almost laughable at times. A case in point is the fuel sending unit problem regarding Accords. You mentioned that your dealership's service department has only seen two defective units. Come on, most see two or more defective units a day.
Your opinions are appreciated but the constant denial regarding quality assurance issues regarding Accords is crossing the line of reason.
1991 with 151k miles
1997 with 75k miles
2000 with 19k miles
Have never had a fuel sending unit problem.
Never even heard about it until this forum.
Honda makes an excellent car for the money, IMHO.
I just don't see the quality drop that people are talking about after 1998. My 2000 appears just as well built as the 1997, maybe better.
I guess the 6th generation Accords just seem to have more problems than previous generations. Honda has taken steps to cut corners on their once high standards.
Just look at the Honda Accord LX 5th generation exhaust and muffler and compare it to a Honda Accord LX 6th generation's exhaust system. You will see what I mean by cutting corners. Enough said.
Silvercoupe--regarding your gas gauge/fuel sending unit, you are definitely one of the lucky ones.
isellhondas--I don't agree with you on 90% of your replies. Consider yourself lucky I agree with you 10% of the time.
I have had 94, 96 and 98 Accords, and my sis has a 2000 Ody. Other sis has a 96 Accord, and nephew has a 94. Dad has a 94 Civic. Not one has had fuel gauge accuracy problems. Not to say it isn't a legitimate issue, it's just not quite as prevalent as some may have us believe. Like Isell stated, the sky is not falling. Honda makes a very good product for the money. In my experience, quality has been better with my later models. I had the most nagging problems with the 94. I would deduce that quality hasn't really gotten better or worse, overall.
(1) Honda's quality has truly slipped in the last 5 or 6 years. Building them in North America, brings North American build quality problems a la GM, FORD, and CHRYSLER.
(2) Don't ever buy an Accord V6 Automatic because there is a serious design flaw with the Automatic. They must get over 50-60 service calls a week relating to this model. They tell me the Prelude and the CR-V are well-built cars (for your info- both made in Japan).
Sorry, Isellhondas, I trust and appreciate the comments from people who actually work on the cars and have no pecuniary interest. I think most people would agree that they have more credibility.
The Honda Accord V-6 does have design flaws and is very problematic. The service technicians at my Honda dealership have also communicated this point to me. I actually considered buying a V-6 coupe until I heard all the negatives regarding the transmission.
I agree that Honda's Japanese made autos are far superior to those produced in North America. The Japanese still take pride in what they produce.
isellhondas must be living in OZ. A salesman not knowing about Hondas V-6 automatic transmission problems is quite interesting to say the least.
I would listen to a mechanic any day at my Honda dealership as compared to a Honda salesman regarding quality assurance problems that the new Accords are facing.
Simply put, "Hondas are not what they use to be"!
Yes, there were two (2) issues with them, ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN FIXED VIA RECALLS AND/OR TSB'S!!!!
The rest of the supposed "v6 tranny problems" are NORMAL SOUNDS of an automatic transmission, and the other "alleged problem" posts are PARANOIA from the previous issues that have already been fixed.
To those of you considering an Accord V6, have no fear about tranny reliability issues. Yes, there were some, but have been LONG FIXED.
I moderate a forum at SuperHonda.org specifically for ACCORD V6 owners, and this is the largest Accord V6 forum on the Internet. There have been no unexplained auto tranny problems from our members. Some have problems, but are fixed by the TSB's and are all KNOWN issues on SOME Accord V6's.
Many of our members have modifications on their engines such that they're making close to 250HP (up 50 from stock) and they have not had ANY automatic transmission problems either.
The only V6 tranny problems we ever hear about are from people with 98's that never got the TSB done and now 4+ years later the tranny is finally giving out because it never got fixed, and then once in awhile we have some people with the MY2000 problem which affected a SMALL number of cars, and is also fixable and a KNOWN ISSUE.
There are currently NO WIDESPREAD or REAL V6 tranny issues with Accord V6's.
My 2001 Accord V6 is perfectly fine.
On the other hand, I had one fuel sending unit replaced at 7,000 miles and the replacement is bad now. Even when I fill the tank, the fuel gauge only goes up to 3/4 full, and shows erratic readings until the tank is almost empty (it does seem to indicate empty correctly). I reset my tripometer when I fill up and go by it rather than the fuel gauge. I plan on calling my dealer and having it fixed again.
So, vote me no and yes on the "recurring problems". And don't dismiss Isell so easily. It is, in fact, human nature to escalate or even create a problem that someone else has pointed out that you should look for.
Anselmo...please don't misquote me. I didn't say that I had only heard of *two* fuel sending unit problems.
Let me try to recreate the conversation I had with one of our long time Service Advisors one evening...
ME: I've read of troubles with fuel sending units. Are these causing problems?
HIM: Fuel tank sending units?
ME: Yeah, I hear these are causing lots of problems.
HIM: Well...not really. We've replaced a few of them I guess.
ME: so, this isn't a big deal?
HIM: no, not at all.
================================================
That is how the conversation went. He had no reason to lie to me.
NOW...it's also possible that some people are bothered by what doesn't bother other people and have demanded that their irratic gas guage be fixed.
I do know that on my 99 V-6 coupe, the gas guage reads empty when there is still something like five gallons left. To ME, this isn't a "problem".
It's just the way the guage reads. I know this, and consider it somthing of a safety net.
Would a new sending unit "fix" this "problem".
Perhaps, but I don't care. Others might.
Now, timadams, in my opinion, DOES have a problem if the guage only registers 3/4 with a full tank.
That, I would get fixed.
http:// www.nhtsa.dot.gov/car/
I suggest isellhondas spend some time at this site to find out what really is going on regarding Honda Quality Assurance issues. Welcome to the real world isellhondas.
Fuel sending units---the reason the gas gauge is only indicating 3/4 of tank is the ongoing problem that Honda has yet to correct. Is it a supplier or engineering problem or a little of both? Its there and it hasn't been corrected since 1994!
Bullies---I got to admit, the first salesman that felt that he was being bullied. Now that's a first that I will always remember. Sorry isellhondas but I am laughing as I type.
Since 1998, all new Hondas are delivered with a full tank of gas. When we deliver these cars, one of the things I check is the gas guage reading.
If the cars have been driven a bit and the guage doesn't register full, we have a lot attendant run the car to the corner station and top off the tank.
I have literally sold and delivered HUNDREDS of new Hondas since 1998 and have yet to see one guage that didn't read full.
Nor have I heard from another salesperson that this was the case.
Must be a hell of a problem....!
Some people are afraid what they read and immediately go into the "defensive mode"! To deny a problem is human nature but when your car has a problem it usually results in a trip to the shop.
A Honda salesman is always going to defend their product even if it has known faults. Good example of this is the quality plagued Honda Passport built by Izuzu. The vehicles has more problems and this is indicated in Consumer Reports.
People just have to take the good with the bad!
This is not a Honda bashing topic but it is a topic that is suppose to expose quality assurance problems regarding Honda Accords. This is being done to help the Accord owner and not hinder him.
A few of you are taking it as personal assaults regarding your Accords. Mind you, I DO OWN AN ACCORD and do not work as a salesman for Toyota!
Let's discuss quality control issues like the topic suggests.
I also have the knock at start up. Should I worry about this?
50 or 60 a week, huh. Yeah they must be a busy place. Six day work week means 8 to 10 a day. It's getting awful deep, better put my waders back on. You sure it's not 500 or 600 a week?
I wouldn't think your cars sit on the lot with full tanks.
And just because the gauge reads full doesn't mean it will be accurate thru its entire range as fuel is used.
We immediately take the cars to the gas station as soon as they are unloaded so, yes, all of our new cars are sitting on the lot with full tanks.
And, you are correct. No gas guage is totally linear in it's accuracy. They are not precision instruments. That's good enough for me.
Yes, Accords are still bing built and sold in U.S along with American built. I spent almost six month last year to help my sister research and buy 01 Japanese built Accord. We did not had any problem finding one and are very happy with the decision.
If you have eyes to see, you can figure out the difference in quality and fit and finish. When U.S built Accord uses same suppliers who supply to G.M. or any other U.S. manyfacturer ther is bound to be a difference in over all quality of the product. Why is that most American models don't hold their value after four/five years?
I strongly agree with the posts who are suggesting that Honda has slipped in quality our past 4 years. Like I said I researched extensively when buying my sisters Accord and sat and drove atleast 7-8 different models and manufacturers. You can feel the difference immediately when you sit and drive a good quality car.
Choose whatever you like, we choose Japan built and are very happy and satisfied with our decision. No wind noice, can't say about auto trans. b/c our is 5spd. Although the check engine light has come on after 7200 Miles which was shocking, will have it checked next week.
I am still driving 90 Accord made in Japan, 5spd with 173000 miles. Other than couple of auxiliry thing no major break down has ever happened. In my opinion the quality that Accord used to have, say 7-8 years ago, has been transferred to upscale luxury models, i.e. Acura's. Although I will still not buy American built Acura, that my decision, you have every right to disagree with it. Take care
Personally I think it's a placebo effect.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Japanese I-4 Accord
as the quality of workmanship is much better than its US manufactured counterpart. Fit and Finish is far superior. As far as a placebo effect regarding the Accord, the Japanese built version would be my first preference.
The Japanese still have a "higher standard" in the manufacture of automobiles whether it be Honda, Toyota or Nissan. The Honda worker in Ohio isn't in the same league with his Japanese counterpart.
isellhondas--did you sell Hondas ten years ago? If you didn't, there is no way you can compare the 2001 Accord's quality as compared to the 1991 Accord. It is like comparing apples to oranges.
Just thought I would relay my 2 cents.
Also if people think the US built cars are inferior compared to Japanese built, wait 'till the UK produced vehicles start coming over. I may be interested in an '02 CR-V but no way will I buy it if it's made in jolly old England.
IIRC reading in another board here that the typical thickness of the primer, paint, and clearcoat on the average car is less than the thickness of 2 sheets of newsprint.
I wouldn't be suprised to discover that Honda uses the same standards for painting all over the world. Although cars may come from different places to the US, they still need to be repaired here. Additionally, Honda is mass market - it's cheaper for them to standardize on one kind of paint from one manufacturer.
Why would Honda allow the North American plants to have a lower quality level than the Japanese plants? All the products and manufacturing processes are designed to meet a certain expectation of quality. We North Americans seem to have that certain expectation from Honda/Toyota. Since NA is Honda's biggest market, why would they let the plants produce product lower than the level of expectation the customer has. Honda has exported these North American vehicles back to Japan and to Europe as well.
Is my 98 better than my 91? Maybe not better, but I wouldn't say worse. More complex, yes. More features, yes. More troublesome, Nope - not at all. In my 3 years of ownership, I have had 4 warranty items only one of which was more than minor (something called a vent shut valve replaced). My 91 had similar results.
As for the British made CRV - remember, Honda has a lot riding on this product line. It is a new model and it takes a ton of confidence to bring a new product from a plant in a country stereotyped for less than perfect quality.
Remember, quality is based on statistical analysis and expectations. Honda must have a standard all plants must attain. I think the American manufacturers have raised their quality level and we all think Honda stay ahead by the same level. At least Honda was there in the beginning.
Deming in my opinion is the master of quality control. Many of you may already know that he spent a number of years in Japan during the 50's. As a result of his (at least in part) and other Japanese influences (including Dr. Noriak Kano), the economic transformation of the Japanese economy prevailed. You have to wonder if companies like Honda benefited directly, although Honda's history goes way back prior to World War II. I think Honda probably did benefit.
Wait a minute! I'm looking under the hood of my '85 Civic Wagon, and I believe I see Deming's autograph on the valve cover. That's it, "W. Edward Deming!" And geeezzz, I've been trying to get that ^%&^%$ Ohio Buckeye beer can out of my '98 Accord's exhaust for three years!
robr2: your arguments are well stated, but empirically, I do agree that the Japanese have a better handle on quality control issues. I still don't understand why the American automotive industry didn't embrace Dr. Deming. My vote goes to Honda Motor Company of Japan.
Thank you, Mr. Soichiro Honda.
Yes, I believe that the Japanese have a better handle on quality. Acceptance of Deming and willingness to adapt has been one of Japan's competitive advantages. But for what is considered an insular society, isn't it pretty amazing that they were willing make capital investments in nations where low quality was the norm? This only shows that the methods can be successfully implemented, so long as the workforce is willing to accept the methods. Yes Honda (and Japan, Inc.) has had to make exceptions to the ways which they believe leads to quality, but overall it has proven successful here and has brought the level of all automakers in NA up.
Have Honda's quality levels slipped or has our level of expectation risen so high? Is there such a thing as perfect quality?
I have always contended that the fit and finish of the Japanese manufactured Accord is of higher quality control standards. The easiest way to determine this is to compare fit and finish on the Honda lot. You will be surprised since the Japanese standards are more detailed orientated.
When I buy my next Accord, I will definitely buy a Japanese produced version.
anselmo1: You said it all with respect to Japanese fit and finish, and detail orientation.
I don't believe that Honda of Japan quality levels have slipped. Maybe it's more of an issue as to whether or not Honda of America is meeting standard. And yes, expectations are high, and I'm not sure what perfect quality is. I will say that my '85 Civic, '89 Civic and '98 Accord have been maintained by two oustanding mechanics. These mechanics, along with forum mechanics like auburn63 keep them "running."
Speaking of Running... America does have the best 400m runners in the world! I'm not one of them, but as an older fart, I'm still trying. Now let me get out of here and hit the track to race those snails. Keep posting.
This board is great conveying the "quality message" and what a customer should look for.
Take heed isellhondas and pass the message along.
As far as running, I don't but I sure has heck would love to give an S-2000 a run around a Honda testing facility track.
The worker in Ohio cannot meet the stellar standards as compared to the Japanese auto worker.
I would put money on it that the Japanese Honda salesman has far more insight in his product line as compared to the American salesman. Refute this statement if I am wrong isellhondas!
As far as the Japanese produced transmission in the V-6, I am sure that the supplier is working hard on correcting the problem.
And I've sold hundreds and hundreds of them...
Therefore, the average Joe could care less about this issue which seems SO important to a couple of people here.
And I'll say it again. I cannot tell even the SLIGHTEST difference in quality between these cars.
Guess those who disagree must have more experience with Hondas than I do!
Do you really get many of them?
It had the only vin number that began with the letter J.
This past December though, I counted 11 Japanese built Accords on the same lot. The reason I remember the number 11 is that I was having coffee with one of the salesman and we were walking around in the Accord area while my car was being serviced. He told me the month of December is usually when they receive the most Japanese built Accords.
Can anyone tell me one December is the month that Japanese Accords hit US lots?
And...no, we see very few of them at all.
It should be pretty clear to even the most casual reader what your agenda is.
I didn't even read the post you are talking about.
Well, it sounds like that person had a defective transmission. It happens.
I'm sure the two of you would LOVE to believe that this is a horrible, widespread, ongoing problem that will only get worse with time. Sorry, this isn't the case.
An automatic transmission has hundreds of parts in it, any of which can fail on even the best of them. It can and will happen albeit it rarely.
Guess that's what warranties are for.
The readers here are intelligent and know when one acts like a "shill". Sorry isellhondas, I don't buy what you are telling us.
The V-6 transmission is troublesome since 1998 in all Accords. Read some of the posts from other readers regarding the infamous "clunk" and what happens shortly after that. Honda has a problem which they just haven't corrected!