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H1 is better because it's ground clearance is very good (16" i think). In essense, it can dig all the way down to the bottom and it will still have enough clearance to NOT have it's underbody touching the sand.
First, “ANY” vehicle will get stuck in the sand and mud if you push your luck too much.
Someone was mentioning the new Unimog being sold in the US, the sad part is that this particular model, the U500 as in fact most Unimogs, are intended as work trucks, they are very specialized vehicles, in other words is not a vehicle in the sense of personal transportation with good off road capabilities. For instance the U900 that the US Army uses, known as SEE truck is equipped with a front end loader in the front and a backhoe in the rear. About the only model that comes close to a road vehicle is the 404 which was designed as a troop carrier for NATO and is the vehicle most off roaders use since is light compared to the other Mogs and has decent hwy speed. (It can be bought as surplus from European armies for 5 to 7K for a good one)
I guess what I am trying to say is that the Mog on the hwy is out of its element, most owners have to trailer their Unimogs to the play ground and just a regular pickup and trailer wont do, for instance my 406 with a wheel base one inch shorter than my Porsche weighs almost 10,000 lbs.
I consider the Mog crowd to be a true hard core off roaders, I am not talking about the souped up jeep crowd that go out on weekends to tear up the toys rock crawling but in a true sense of adventurer, not that Mogers wont do any rock crawling, we often do it for the hell of it since a stock Mog will do it with no problems.
If someone wants some good pointers on sand traveling, the following link has 1000 mile trip with good pictures and good insight by a couple of U1300 and a Doka. Day 4 is pretty good, tells about the dangers of getting flooded by the tide and an old Moggers trick, using magnesium engine blocks for camp fires.
http://www.billcaid.com/Altar2002/Altar2002TripReport.html
In this link there are some good videos of Mogs playings, like Robs climb wall and Tyson at Helldorado.
http://www.unimogvideo.com/
This isn't accurate in my opinion. I do a lot of sand driving and it comes down to getting your tire pressure right and driving technique. I see suburbans, expeditions and excursions oversand. Those are the same weight and have narrower tires. When tire pressure is lowered to the proper level, the underbody shouldn't even come close to hitting the sand. The only vehicles that really drag over sand are anything with under 7" of ground clearance to begin with...which is not true of the H2.
I think it is a safe bet the H2 is very capable in the sand. However sand driving takes some preparation and knowledge of how to do it. I can't tell you how many times I see people who are out for their first time on the beach stuck up to their frame. They hit the beach full speed with tires fully inflated, they stop about 10' into it...usually blocking the access road and making a nuisance of themselves.
I don't think you can take any 4x4 and plow off into deep sand without the right air pressure and driving techniques and not get stuck.
BTW, i have an '02 4Runner 4wd (4100 lbs) with BFGoodrich AT/KO tires. I have gotten stuck before in deep sand...and i did air down.
“Awesome! Any idea what is the retail, maintenance and specs for one of those?”
Lok888 from my post # 377 I don’t know which model are you referring to, in the 50+ years since Mercedes has been making the Unimogs there are many models, from a very little size like a 411 to big 6x6 models.
The last time Unimogs were sold in the US was in the 70’s through CASE equipment, this year is the first time they have been back in the US since then, they are sold through Freightliner trucks, a division of Mercedes, there are several models but so far the only model being brought to the US is the U500.
Is a big truck, one seats way high over the road with a panoramic view with one of the biggest windshields of the industry, 22ft square, (you don’t want to break it, ouch) they sell for around 70k, still is about 30$+ cheaper than a H1 and it could carry the H1 on its bed all day long.
Bruce is one of the first customers, you can see the size of the vehicle at his web site and also compare to an older 404. The U500 is as tall as an H1 is wide, go figure. You can click on the pictures for a better view.
http://l1-a.net/U500/
What most people do is buy a used from some of the dealers like the following ones, they are good honest people and I heard nothing but good about their dealings.
Most of this Mogs are 30 and 40 and more years old but in excellent shape, besides all parts are available, I just bought a new cab for my 25 year old 406 directly from Mercedes, see who is going to sell you a new cab for a vehicle that old. The prices are reasonable and you are buying a true and tested vehicle, they give the price and specs of each vehicle, also worth mentioning is the Pinzgahuer, although lighter is a very capable army truck and you can buy a 6x6 very affordably, check this.
Check the 406’s.
http://www.offroad-imports.com/
and check the custom Unimogs
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/trucks.htm
I will concede that there is sand that a heavy SUV will most likely get stuck in. I do stop and turn around if the sand looks too treacherous...this is part of the overall driving experience I refer to...knowing your vehicles limits.
I go through some deep stuff finding good surf casting spots in the summer. I have come close to getting stuck, but have never sank. As soon as start to spin and dig in I back up over my tracks and do get a good run at it. I never sank unless I am spinning hopelessly, which in sand is useless to make progress.
Two events I remember well, once I went in my Ford tractor to the river near my home, I took the small trail trough the woods at the end of the street where I live and a couple of miles in the trail and I was in the river bank, like a dummy I felt confident in my big tractor tires, 5 ft tall with huge lugs and extra wide, I went down the bank played in the water for a little while, when it was time to go I turned back and headed up the small incline in the sand, beautiful white sugar sand, as soon as I got into the incline the tractor stopped dead on its tracks and just started to dig in, I could not believe it, those big tires just kept digging like a trencher, I set the hand throttle about 1200rpm with the diff lock on and jumped out of the tractor to help it, while the wheels were turning I kept throwing all kind of branches and pieces of wood in front of tires to no avail, it dug itself so deep that it would not go back either, down hill. Finally it was getting dark and I had to walk back those two miles and find a neighbor with his tractor to come and pull me out.
The other is even more laughable, my yard is acreage, to the right of my house I have a wooded section with some boggy areas after a good rain, deep soft mud from an ancient bottom land, I got my Unimog stuck in a stump hole, I went to get my tractor to help it out and it got stuck too, all within 100ft from my house, as we can see we don’t have to go too far to get in trouble.
Let me tell about a trick how I got myself out of it, if there is no water standing on the surface, just gooey mud and if you have a bag of Portland cement on hand, first dig with a shovel in the direction of intended exit, throw a few handfuls of dry powder into the area of contact of the tires and the mud and along the pathway of intended exit, spin the tires a couple of times and let it seat for a while, the more powder the better, if you feel like jabbing the mix into the mud along the path the better, after it thigthens up a little it will come out.
And for an used one like 10 years old with 70K+ miles for $30K range. Reasonable? I am still interested in the cost, service and more for maintain one of these. It sounds like fun than the Hummer.
The H2 is heaver and will sink more than most other SUVs but still I haven't heard others complain of H2s getting stuck on a beach. Motortrend didn't have problems when they did the AK to FL torture test. AMG took several groups of new owners to I think silver dunes and didn't have anyone get stuck just by driving on a beach. I think his problems were lack of sand driving experience and not a vehicle problem.
There are also some nice 406’s for under 20,000$.
If you want a dedicated off road vehicle this is the way to go, they will last you a lifetime, look at it this way, this vehicles are 40 to 20 years old and now the off roaders are grabbing them and starting a new life, for the big chunk of iron you getting for that kind of money you cant beat what you are paying for, the cheapest SUV will cost you twice or more and is nothing but a flimsy toy by comparison.
Second, you don’t have to worry about trashing them in the boondocks and when you come to town with one of them believe me all eyes will be on your truck and all kind of questions, specially if you customize it a little.
You were mentioning in buying a new U500 or something like that and then modifying in it for a double cab, no need to do that, to expensive, Eurotruck was offering this 406 Doka (double cab) for around 20K if my memory is correct, the truck completely certified.
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/Blk416doka-3.jpg
Or a nice Pinzgauer like this 6x6
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/mypinz-12.jpg
Or this nice 416 beautifully restored
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/SSloading3.JPG
Or this nice U140
http://teamunimog.com/Images/GT140%2057.jpg
I am not affiliated in any shape or form to Eurotruck, I am just showing you the many possibilities and shapes of the Unimog as a high quality alternative for the serious off roader.
there are no dealers in the state and that concerns me. I don't want to drive 2.5 hours for
service. I called a dealer in New Hampshire and he stated that I would have to have them do warranty work and checkup. This could get real expensive and if I have to have the car towed forget it. My question is can my Chevy dealer do the warranty work?
Has anybody have any idea what the changes are going to be on the 2004?
Lars
I live in Windsor VT and have a Mazda Progegé5. The nearest dealer is Concord, NH or Montpelior, VT. I have my local "Foreign Auto Specialist" do all my scheduled work. I haven't needed any warranty work though so I haven't seen the dealer since I bought it.
It's all GM truck underneath, any good garage should be able to work on it.
You may get some grief from the Hummer dealer but they cannot LEGALY require you to have your maintenance performed there.
And you right, no Hummer dealer in VT. There is one in Manchester, NH, two in MA and one in South Portland, ME. And there are 10 in NY. Are you close to upstate NY?
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
But I agree with basically everything the editors said. At its price it needs more luxurious equipment, a better interior and definitely a sturdier shifter, our beatup 92 corolla has a sturdier shifter. And as for the interior I know GM is going to improve the interior soon.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Steve, Host
colorado1974 "Honda CRV vs Jeep Liberty" May 9, 2003 10:34am
I was thinking maybe it was unrated for mpg?
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
But the H2 doesn't because it had to sacrifice those things, like a 3rd row bench, for its offroad abilitys and those people don't understand.
I don't think they should sell them with skinny tires, because it is a Hummer, offroad ability should be the main focus.
The H2 may weigh 6400 lbs + with driver and gear,
but I go everywhere I want in the dunes. Just like I do in a Z-71. You gotta bag them tires.
Steve, Host
"The Mini Cooper, for instance, was cited for oddly placed cupholders"
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!? I thought this was an initial QUALITY survey.
"The quality truly is there with the product," he said. "It's just that I believe -- and this is my personal opinion -- that customer satisfaction may not have been what it should have been or the survey may have been a little skewed because we only had 112 surveys returned."
That sure explains ALOT! Way over 30,000 units sold, only 112 surveyed. Using 30,000 as number of units sold means .00373333%, 4 thousandths of one percent! They should of just put insufficient data. Really thanks for the article.
Repeat after me: "When converting a decimal to a percent, move the decimal point two places to the RIGHT!"
The correct figure is 0.373%. 112 is a significant sample size. Compare this with the 0.0015% sample size used in nationwide political polling.
tidester, host
Any scratches, dents? Are they a new or old dealer. Currently H1 prices vary quite a bit from dealer to dealer. SOme new delaers never had a vehicle that would attract so much attention, be liked by everyone, and still won't sell. These dealers will often take alot off msrp.
Older dealers have experienced this before and will usually take less off.
My guess is about 70k. Check out other dealer sites, email them, H1s don't have a sales area, so you can get your dealer to match another dealers price. Good luck.