Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Hummer H2

1568101114

Comments

  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    I thought so. But what makes the H2 less easier in sand?
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Tire pressure has a lot to do with it. I don't know what the specific situation is here, but when I go out I usually am down to 15 psi and 12 psi in the deep stuff. When I purchased tires I was specifically looking for sand driving performance and I found is that BFGs A/Ts are recommended to run at 6 psi in the sand, not 12-15 psi. Perhaps that is the issue?
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Why does the H2 get stuck?? Because it sinks, the underbody sinks too. In essence, the underbody becomes the anchor because the wheels have to push the underbody thru sand.

    H1 is better because it's ground clearance is very good (16" i think). In essense, it can dig all the way down to the bottom and it will still have enough clearance to NOT have it's underbody touching the sand.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    Reading the last few posts I noticed a few comments about the new Unimog, an H2 getting stuck in the sand, Hummer1 as a better alternative, etc.

    First, “ANY” vehicle will get stuck in the sand and mud if you push your luck too much.

    Someone was mentioning the new Unimog being sold in the US, the sad part is that this particular model, the U500 as in fact most Unimogs, are intended as work trucks, they are very specialized vehicles, in other words is not a vehicle in the sense of personal transportation with good off road capabilities. For instance the U900 that the US Army uses, known as SEE truck is equipped with a front end loader in the front and a backhoe in the rear. About the only model that comes close to a road vehicle is the 404 which was designed as a troop carrier for NATO and is the vehicle most off roaders use since is light compared to the other Mogs and has decent hwy speed. (It can be bought as surplus from European armies for 5 to 7K for a good one)

    I guess what I am trying to say is that the Mog on the hwy is out of its element, most owners have to trailer their Unimogs to the play ground and just a regular pickup and trailer wont do, for instance my 406 with a wheel base one inch shorter than my Porsche weighs almost 10,000 lbs.

    I consider the Mog crowd to be a true hard core off roaders, I am not talking about the souped up jeep crowd that go out on weekends to tear up the toys rock crawling but in a true sense of adventurer, not that Mogers wont do any rock crawling, we often do it for the hell of it since a stock Mog will do it with no problems.

    If someone wants some good pointers on sand traveling, the following link has 1000 mile trip with good pictures and good insight by a couple of U1300 and a Doka. Day 4 is pretty good, tells about the dangers of getting flooded by the tide and an old Moggers trick, using magnesium engine blocks for camp fires.

    http://www.billcaid.com/Altar2002/Altar2002TripReport.html

    In this link there are some good videos of Mogs playings, like Robs climb wall and Tyson at Helldorado.

    http://www.unimogvideo.com/
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    "Why does the H2 get stuck?? Because it sinks, the underbody sinks too. In essence, the underbody becomes the anchor because the wheels have to push the underbody thru sand."

    This isn't accurate in my opinion. I do a lot of sand driving and it comes down to getting your tire pressure right and driving technique. I see suburbans, expeditions and excursions oversand. Those are the same weight and have narrower tires. When tire pressure is lowered to the proper level, the underbody shouldn't even come close to hitting the sand. The only vehicles that really drag over sand are anything with under 7" of ground clearance to begin with...which is not true of the H2.

    I think it is a safe bet the H2 is very capable in the sand. However sand driving takes some preparation and knowledge of how to do it. I can't tell you how many times I see people who are out for their first time on the beach stuck up to their frame. They hit the beach full speed with tires fully inflated, they stop about 10' into it...usually blocking the access road and making a nuisance of themselves.

    I don't think you can take any 4x4 and plow off into deep sand without the right air pressure and driving techniques and not get stuck.
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    thor8 - Awesome! Any idea what is the retail, maintenance and specs for one of those?
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Airing down is a very good idea, as i have stated before. However, in deep sand, your 6400+ lbe truck will sink, no matter how much you air down! As soon as you loose momentum, you will sink. Granted, you can drive real fast to avoid losing momentum...but sooner or later, in deep sand, you will be caught. Obviously, if the sand is not deep, then it is no problem.

    BTW, i have an '02 4Runner 4wd (4100 lbs) with BFGoodrich AT/KO tires. I have gotten stuck before in deep sand...and i did air down.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    Lok888 wrote,
    “Awesome! Any idea what is the retail, maintenance and specs for one of those?”

    Lok888 from my post # 377 I don’t know which model are you referring to, in the 50+ years since Mercedes has been making the Unimogs there are many models, from a very little size like a 411 to big 6x6 models.

    The last time Unimogs were sold in the US was in the 70’s through CASE equipment, this year is the first time they have been back in the US since then, they are sold through Freightliner trucks, a division of Mercedes, there are several models but so far the only model being brought to the US is the U500.

    Is a big truck, one seats way high over the road with a panoramic view with one of the biggest windshields of the industry, 22ft square, (you don’t want to break it, ouch) they sell for around 70k, still is about 30$+ cheaper than a H1 and it could carry the H1 on its bed all day long.

    Bruce is one of the first customers, you can see the size of the vehicle at his web site and also compare to an older 404. The U500 is as tall as an H1 is wide, go figure. You can click on the pictures for a better view.
    http://l1-a.net/U500/

    What most people do is buy a used from some of the dealers like the following ones, they are good honest people and I heard nothing but good about their dealings.
    Most of this Mogs are 30 and 40 and more years old but in excellent shape, besides all parts are available, I just bought a new cab for my 25 year old 406 directly from Mercedes, see who is going to sell you a new cab for a vehicle that old. The prices are reasonable and you are buying a true and tested vehicle, they give the price and specs of each vehicle, also worth mentioning is the Pinzgahuer, although lighter is a very capable army truck and you can buy a 6x6 very affordably, check this.

    Check the 406’s.
    http://www.offroad-imports.com/

    and check the custom Unimogs

    http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/trucks.htm
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Where is this deep sand that will sink a heavy SUV? Indiana sand dunes? My SUV is only 4500lbs, I don't have a h2. We never did get clarification on the sand conditions from the h2 owner reporting poor performance in sand. I maintain it was more likely due to air pressure and sand driving experience..not weight.

    I will concede that there is sand that a heavy SUV will most likely get stuck in. I do stop and turn around if the sand looks too treacherous...this is part of the overall driving experience I refer to...knowing your vehicles limits.

    I go through some deep stuff finding good surf casting spots in the summer. I have come close to getting stuck, but have never sank. As soon as start to spin and dig in I back up over my tracks and do get a good run at it. I never sank unless I am spinning hopelessly, which in sand is useless to make progress.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    One can encounter a bad spot anywhere no need to go thousands of miles way from home, just get off the road anywhere.

    Two events I remember well, once I went in my Ford tractor to the river near my home, I took the small trail trough the woods at the end of the street where I live and a couple of miles in the trail and I was in the river bank, like a dummy I felt confident in my big tractor tires, 5 ft tall with huge lugs and extra wide, I went down the bank played in the water for a little while, when it was time to go I turned back and headed up the small incline in the sand, beautiful white sugar sand, as soon as I got into the incline the tractor stopped dead on its tracks and just started to dig in, I could not believe it, those big tires just kept digging like a trencher, I set the hand throttle about 1200rpm with the diff lock on and jumped out of the tractor to help it, while the wheels were turning I kept throwing all kind of branches and pieces of wood in front of tires to no avail, it dug itself so deep that it would not go back either, down hill. Finally it was getting dark and I had to walk back those two miles and find a neighbor with his tractor to come and pull me out.

    The other is even more laughable, my yard is acreage, to the right of my house I have a wooded section with some boggy areas after a good rain, deep soft mud from an ancient bottom land, I got my Unimog stuck in a stump hole, I went to get my tractor to help it out and it got stuck too, all within 100ft from my house, as we can see we don’t have to go too far to get in trouble.

    Let me tell about a trick how I got myself out of it, if there is no water standing on the surface, just gooey mud and if you have a bag of Portland cement on hand, first dig with a shovel in the direction of intended exit, throw a few handfuls of dry powder into the area of contact of the tires and the mud and along the pathway of intended exit, spin the tires a couple of times and let it seat for a while, the more powder the better, if you feel like jabbing the mix into the mud along the path the better, after it thigthens up a little it will come out.
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    thor8 - Thanks for the links. Great picture! For the truck (U500) itself, can I just buy the chassis with cab and modify to a 4 door SUV? Double cabs. The Unimog website shows there are many things that you can add to the chassis like crane, front end loader, snow plow, you name it for 30 mins...

    And for an used one like 10 years old with 70K+ miles for $30K range. Reasonable? I am still interested in the cost, service and more for maintain one of these. It sounds like fun than the Hummer.
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    What was wrong with towing with the Exp? Was it too slow, lack of power, problems with towing uphill? If those were your problems the H2 probably won't be much better because of its weight.

    The H2 is heaver and will sink more than most other SUVs but still I haven't heard others complain of H2s getting stuck on a beach. Motortrend didn't have problems when they did the AK to FL torture test. AMG took several groups of new owners to I think silver dunes and didn't have anyone get stuck just by driving on a beach. I think his problems were lack of sand driving experience and not a vehicle problem.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    Lok888, did you check in the sites I mentioned for the used ones? There are several 404’s under or around 10,000$ most of those have between 10 to 20k miles and well kept, since they were army vehicles, specially the Swiss army is a stickler for good service.

    There are also some nice 406’s for under 20,000$.

    If you want a dedicated off road vehicle this is the way to go, they will last you a lifetime, look at it this way, this vehicles are 40 to 20 years old and now the off roaders are grabbing them and starting a new life, for the big chunk of iron you getting for that kind of money you cant beat what you are paying for, the cheapest SUV will cost you twice or more and is nothing but a flimsy toy by comparison.

    Second, you don’t have to worry about trashing them in the boondocks and when you come to town with one of them believe me all eyes will be on your truck and all kind of questions, specially if you customize it a little.

    You were mentioning in buying a new U500 or something like that and then modifying in it for a double cab, no need to do that, to expensive, Eurotruck was offering this 406 Doka (double cab) for around 20K if my memory is correct, the truck completely certified.

    http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/Blk416doka-3.jpg

    Or a nice Pinzgauer like this 6x6

    http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/mypinz-12.jpg

    Or this nice 416 beautifully restored

    http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/SSloading3.JPG

    Or this nice U140

    http://teamunimog.com/Images/GT140%2057.jpg

    I am not affiliated in any shape or form to Eurotruck, I am just showing you the many possibilities and shapes of the Unimog as a high quality alternative for the serious off roader.
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    Thanks for the info. Do you any link about the dealers or importers for these used Unimog? All I have is the dealer location for the brand new. According to the Unimog website, the nearest one is in Maine.
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    at about 9:55pm central I'm watching CNN and Fox guys following tanks in civi Hummers. The only civi vehicle that are following abrams on the battlefiels, pretty cool. "Hummer-Real 4WD"
  • algie_fawkesalgie_fawkes Member Posts: 14
    doesn't AM general still make the H1? that's the one for me, not this H2 GM thing.
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    AM General makes both the H1 and H2 in Mishawaka IN. The H1 plant is owned by AMG. The H2 plant was built by GM for AMG. AMG makes all product changes to the H1/Humvee and also owns General Engine Products, which makes the 6.5 diesel engine. GM currently owns the brand "Hummer", the Hummer grille trademark, distribution and marketing and other things. GM pays AMG to make the H2.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    The H2 plant is brand new, and was built by GM to their own plant plans. It is exactly like every other GM truck plant. It is (supposeldy) staffed by AMGeneral employees though.
  • algie_fawkesalgie_fawkes Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for the clarification. I don't mind the idea of the GM-based H2...and it will be sweeter on people's budgets. Just keep making the H1, and I'll be okay. :)
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    Yeah, AMG runs, staffs, pays the bills of the H2 plant.
  • larssunlarssun Member Posts: 14
    I am going to be buying a car this summer and I asked my boys what should I buy and of course the H2 was their first choice. I live in Vermont and
    there are no dealers in the state and that concerns me. I don't want to drive 2.5 hours for
    service. I called a dealer in New Hampshire and he stated that I would have to have them do warranty work and checkup. This could get real expensive and if I have to have the car towed forget it. My question is can my Chevy dealer do the warranty work?
    Has anybody have any idea what the changes are going to be on the 2004?
    Lars
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    You can have any mechanic do ALL the work except for warranty work. As long as it is a qualified mechanic, and you follow the maintenance schedule to a "T" then you will be all set.

    I live in Windsor VT and have a Mazda Progegé5. The nearest dealer is Concord, NH or Montpelior, VT. I have my local "Foreign Auto Specialist" do all my scheduled work. I haven't needed any warranty work though so I haven't seen the dealer since I bought it.

    It's all GM truck underneath, any good garage should be able to work on it.

    You may get some grief from the Hummer dealer but they cannot LEGALY require you to have your maintenance performed there.
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    Alot of owners have asked this question. SOme people were told any GM mechanic would be ok, while others that contacted GM Hummer customer assistance were told no, you have to service your H2 at a Hummer dealer.
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    Sporin - I am not sure about the Hummer. Have you spoke to your local GM dealers yet? Or even customer service from Hummer? My Honda dealer told I can have warranty work (including extended warranty) done anywhere I want, any Honda dealers or qualify auto mechanic (ASE certified). They will submit a claim form to Honda for the cost. For my Kia, the customer service said the similar thing. But when warranty work done in non-Kia dealer. I have to submit the receipt to the Consumer Affairs for reimbursement.

    And you right, no Hummer dealer in VT. There is one in Manchester, NH, two in MA and one in South Portland, ME. And there are 10 in NY. Are you close to upstate NY?
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    I'm not in the hummer market, but to the best of my knowledge, it is ILLEGAL for any car company to REQUIRE you to have your maintenance and service done by them.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Soon to be hummertime in Europe (Financial Times)

    Steve, Host
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    It has too many mistakes, 60% not degrees, Humvee went into service in 83 not 79, new H1s MSRP for ~110k-125k and actually sell ~90k not 150k. But its good to see AMG will get to make more money, I wonder how they'll keep up with demand though.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    Maybe owners don't post here because the editors don't like the H2, hmm...

    But I agree with basically everything the editors said. At its price it needs more luxurious equipment, a better interior and definitely a sturdier shifter, our beatup 92 corolla has a sturdier shifter. And as for the interior I know GM is going to improve the interior soon.
  • p18303p18303 Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone on this board have experience using the H1 as a daily driver for commuting, etc? I am seriously considering purchasing one, mainly because of its rugged good looks. I don't really care about cost of gas, etc. My only concern is its ability to fit into normal parking spots when I go places. Any experiences? Does it's weight prevent you from entering many parking lots? I have been carefully noticing signs on many parking structures with weight limits of around 6,000 pounds. I don't think I will be put off by it's size and handling - if I can handle a 22 foot Mack Truck with a manual transmission, I think the H1 will be ok. BUT then again - finding parking for the 22 foot Mack Truck was something I had to plan for well in advance.

    Thanks in advance for your advice.
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    I don't think anyone here does but I know lots of others that do. I've driven and parked them before, and thought parking was pretty easy. I've never heard the weight problem before, I guess it all depends on the lot. If you do buy one get a newer one, they have the most creature comforts. If you don't want to spend ~95000 for a 2003 then look for 2002s, lots of no/low mileage 2002s are being sold at mid 60s to low 70s.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    So the biggest is mileage. Did these people not even look at the H2 before they bought it? What did they expect a 6000+lb truck with no aerodynamics to get? Does JD list the problems for the vehicles so we can see what other kind of problems had?
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I agree...I see more soccer mom's driving these things around where I live. What did people expect? It says 11 MPG but I figured it would really be more like 17? I guess image isn't everything.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    From this message:

    colorado1974 "Honda CRV vs Jeep Liberty" May 9, 2003 10:34am

    I was thinking maybe it was unrated for mpg?

    Steve, Host
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I was only guessing...however I wouldn't expect over 10. Most truck based SUVs barely get 15 around town. The H2 is in the expedition class for MPG. I have seen different ratings from 11 to 13 around town.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, we don't show any mpg estimates for the H2. So I was wondering if the EPA does provide an estimate like people are used to seeing on the sticker.

    Steve, Host
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    The H2 is a class 2 truck so its not rated, but GM themselves said to expect 11-13mpg. Most owners get around 10 average, with some mods like better exhaust they have been known to get 12+.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That helps explain the JD Power report yesterday where owners complained about lower mileage than they expected. If the 11 mpg estimate had been plastered on the Maroney sticker like most cars, maybe some of them wouldn't have been surprised and disappointed, and the Hummer would have scored lots better on the survey.

    Steve, Host
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    I think one reason the H2 scored so low was because most owners thought it was just a more offroad capable Tahoe or something. They expect it to be more comfortable because its a luxury suv, have more space because its so wide, and etc.

    But the H2 doesn't because it had to sacrifice those things, like a 3rd row bench, for its offroad abilitys and those people don't understand.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Maybe people had different expectations, but GM and everything I have seen regarding it has made it abundantly clear that this is an offroad vehicle, just with more onroad mannerisms. Though I spend a lot more time learning about cars than most people. Maybe GM should start selling them with tall skinny road tires might help the gas mileage? The tire size/type alone should be a good clue to anyone about its purpose and gas mileage.
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    Not everyone does research and not everyone gets it. One owner had a lady say to him that they made it too tall, how am I supposed to get in? Others want 4wd to be optional!

    I don't think they should sell them with skinny tires, because it is a Hummer, offroad ability should be the main focus.
  • grunt03grunt03 Member Posts: 15
    Well, I've read about the H2's not doing very good in the sand. I spend many afternoons playing in the sand dunes without any problems. I usually air down to somewhere between 15-20lbs, sometimes less, sometimes more. The stock tires are fine in the loose, sugar sand when bagged properly, even when climbing dunes. Don't try the sand with 40lbs of air though, you may not get stuck until you stop. I've taken 2 wheel drives with bagged tires places that 4x's were getting stuck.
                                                    The H2 may weigh 6400 lbs + with driver and gear,
    but I go everywhere I want in the dunes. Just like I do in a Z-71. You gotta bag them tires.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Was vehicle maligned by Power's study? (South Bend Tribune)

    Steve, Host
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    "Even the Toyota Prius, a hybrid-electric vehicle which achieves about 48 miles per gallon, was marked down by some owners for excessive fuel consumption."

    "The Mini Cooper, for instance, was cited for oddly placed cupholders"

    WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!? I thought this was an initial QUALITY survey.

    "The quality truly is there with the product," he said. "It's just that I believe -- and this is my personal opinion -- that customer satisfaction may not have been what it should have been or the survey may have been a little skewed because we only had 112 surveys returned."

    That sure explains ALOT! Way over 30,000 units sold, only 112 surveyed. Using 30,000 as number of units sold means .00373333%, 4 thousandths of one percent! They should of just put insufficient data. Really thanks for the article.
  • jack4108jack4108 Member Posts: 3
    Anyone out there have any guidance of how much one should pay for a new at the dealer (300 dealer miles) 2002 H1 with the winch, 2 piece aluminum wheels, and MTR tires on a 4 door wagon? Thanks for responding.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Using 30,000 as number of units sold means .00373333%, 4 thousandths of one percent!

    Repeat after me: "When converting a decimal to a percent, move the decimal point two places to the RIGHT!"

    The correct figure is 0.373%. 112 is a significant sample size. Compare this with the 0.0015% sample size used in nationwide political polling.

    tidester, host
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    Um, yeah, that was stupid. Sorry. My head hasn't worked right for a long time. .0015%? Never knew that, thats sure low.

    Any scratches, dents? Are they a new or old dealer. Currently H1 prices vary quite a bit from dealer to dealer. SOme new delaers never had a vehicle that would attract so much attention, be liked by everyone, and still won't sell. These dealers will often take alot off msrp.

    Older dealers have experienced this before and will usually take less off.

    My guess is about 70k. Check out other dealer sites, email them, H1s don't have a sales area, so you can get your dealer to match another dealers price. Good luck.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So, none of you who own H2s are having undue problems with the truck? I have one friend with a black one, can't keep it out of the shop, so he's not surprised at the JD Power rating (gas mileage excluded, as we both feel that's a stupid reason to ding the car, I mean, what do they expect???).
  • h1vch1vc Member Posts: 295
    They do have problems. So far the major ones I've heard are tcases and transmissions that brake for no reason. Check with your lemmon law if they can't fix it.
Sign In or Register to comment.