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Comments
I totally understand your side. My best friend owns one of the top Lexus-Cadillac dealerships in the country and is the most honest guy I know. That said, it is still a free market. Consumers' jobs are to pay the least possible, and sellers' try to get the most. You will notice most of us here, or at least myself, have not said anything bad about car dealers. I just want the lowest price possible. If a dealer is willing to give me a low price because I am totally straight about what I am willing to pay, then that's his choice and my good fortune. Not all car dealers are bad guys, and the good ones are the ones I'll go to for servicing, but I'm still not going to pay sticker for a car that I agree may be the best deal in any price range. I used to think the TL-S was, but this beats it. Anyway, I've been straight with dealers, I say what I will pay... what kind of game is that? Good luck to you. Good luck to the other consumers seeking invioce prices. We all have to agree for sales to be made so obviously no one should be too upset.
(*) Note: be aware of this piece. i've heard of people getting cars at invoice only to lose several hundred dollars in documentation fees. i know its higher elsewhere, but for example, doc fees are only $45 in CA.
good luck
Carsdirect quoted me MSRP. A dealer through Autobytel gave me a quote of $1,000 over invoice and a dealer I emailed quoted $525 over invoice but was not going to have the car until his next shipment. Since my 1990 Civic LX had just been determined to be a total loss, I needed a car sooner than the "next" shipment.
I got on the phone and called the nearest dealer and asked to speak with the sales manager. He first quoted $1,000 over invoice but seemed a little soft on it. I then explained that I was prepared to buy and that my research on Edmunds.com showed that the car could be had from $100 under invoice to & 600 over invoice.
I offered $500 over invoice and after the song and dance that included a discussion about add-ins, I cordially terminated the conversation. Twenty minutes later he calls back and accepts my $500 over offer but...and this is a big but...he wanted to charge me retail for the mud guards ($166). I had mistakenly told him that the only add-in I was interested in was the mudguards and that I could buy them for $58 dollars. So in reality we were within $108, so I accepted his counter. I should also point out that I was incurring $13 a day in rental car expense.
Did I get a good deal? Well, when the F&I women was typing up the paperwork she commented (out of habit I'm sure), "You got a good deal", I replied in a matter of fact manner that I wanted more. This retort stopped her in her tracks and she actually looked at the price paid and said that she had not seen a 2003 at such a low price, the 2002s yes, but not a 2003.
If I had the luxury of more time I probably could have gotten a better deal. No buyers remorse on my part and I know I'm going to love this car.
Regards,
aswhite3rd
I don't mean to sound harsh but I don't care how you make a living. It is not my responsibility to help pay your rent or feed your family. My goal is to purchase a car for the best price I can (sometimes is at invoice, sometimes it is at MSRP). What the dealer pays its sales people is not my concern.
Lastly, I can't help but laugh at how people will debate over a few hundred dollars - 'I paid $500 over invoice, perhaps if I'd negotiated better I could have shaved another $200 off it...'. Er, you're buying a NEW car. The minute you drive it off the lot you're going to lose $2000+. If you're buying a new car obviously a couple of hundred dollars don't matter too much, otherwise you'd be looking at used cars...
Gplayer I don't ever want to see someone have food taken from their families mouths. But the accords sell themselves. What use is a salesman and what service does he or she provide taking an order and tacking on extra dollars to what i have to pay???? Honda should take a page from Saturn set the price fairly and have non commissioned
people show the car and write up the order.
Then I would have no problem paying sticker.
When you think all the people who are looking for a piece.. book man, used car manager, sales manager, salesman, etc no wonder you want sticker.
Gplayer according to your logic the person at the drive up window should be commissioned as well.
Sorry but most salesman in my life will tell you anything you want to hear to get what they want.
The last car salesman agreed with everything i said until bargaining time then he began to get amnesia. Typical....
400 OVER Invoice for LX-V6
0-100 Over for LX I4
200-300 Over for EX
In south Ohio, one of the hottest regions.
I mean, it is accord, straight invoice is reasonable, wait for a couple of months, it will drop under such an economy.
To answer your question. During my last purchase I approached a sales person and told him exactly the model and color vehicle I wanted. I also gave a price I felt was fair. The sales person agreed and the order form was filled out. Total time spent was less than 10 minutes. There was no test drive. When the vehicle was ready I gave the Finance guy a check(no financing). The sales person gave me the vehicle overview. After a few minutes I was showing him where the ATF dipstick was and how to work the Traction Control button. I had no follow-up questions.
To his credit, he did have the vehicle ready and it looked great. He also called the next day to make sure I was happy. I was and if I buy another Honda I will call him first.
I'm sure your job has its challenges. Mine does too. I don't fault you for trying to maximize your profit. Don't fault me for trying to keep as much of my money as I can.
1. When I got to honda.com, they quote 17" upgrade at $1,000. Is this for real? How much an upgrade should cost?
2. The hassle of selling 16" is not worth it to me (obviously, they know it), and I thought that buying a car from a dealer, I should be able to pay a price difference between 17" and 16" setup. How much should this difference be? Is this a reasonable request?
Thank you all!
$23,675. Can anyone do better than this? Please advise. I am buying this car next week and I would like to know before then. Even at invoice the dealer make about $1,000 since there is a 3% hold back and paper work fees. Please advise.
Thank you,
Base invoice for LX V-6 is $21,159 and I think the Appearance Package is at least worth $250. That means the dealer is offering about $170 below invoice! But I don't know why there are two processing fees... I just sent an e-mail about it. I think it might be the 3% state tax in Virginia.
Even with two processing fees, I think this is a very good price for out the door price. Are there anything I should be concerned before I head out to the dealer(about 1 hr drive)?
Our pricing on a 2003 Honda Accord LX V-6 would break down as follows:
03 Accord LX V-6 Sedan $20,776.00
Freight 460.00
Processing Fee 299.00
3% Processing Fee 646.05
.12% " " County Tax 25.84
Title Tax 40.50
Total Price $22,247.39
John Perry
As for those buying a Honda for invoice, there's nothing wrong with that when they have the 3% holdback built in. I was looking at a Audi A4 for comparison, which has no holdback, and they are taking $1500 off sticker without even negotiating down further I might add. They's about a $1300 profit for them on a $30,000 car. And jbatcal,you say it's perfectly fair to make $700-1000 holdback, which is fine, plus another $2500 profit between invoice and retail, not to mention your dealer mooch add-ons that is worthless, just pads the dealers pockets. That's $3200-$3500 profit on an Accord, not counting add-ons. I don't think so, not for this car shopper. You say it's fair to make $3500 profit on a $25,000 car? Besides, the dealer will "keep the lights on" b.s. by used cars, service, and parts, which there's more money in that, then on new cars. Then again, with your math, I stand corrected. You make more on a new Honda, than Audi makes on a new A4. That's not right folks. Inovoice or nothing if I were buying.
Any person who will even suggest we all buy a dealership to buy a car at invoice while receiving holdbacks and incentives is nothing more than a greedy troll. How many people are well versed enough to actually pay invoice for a car? Probably not much, since the majority of the buying public still doesnt know about all the money the dealer gets from the manufacturer to sell him/her the car he/she wants. Durh, we aren't all a bunch of high school drop outs, bozo the clown. You really think you are more specialized than the clerk at Wal-Mart? At least, I won't get no BS from him. It's more complex to listen to the car audio installer than some guy telling me a car has 2 front airbags and cup holders and by the way, that will cost me 2 grand. Oh, I'm sorry, you sit in the car with me after running the oh so intricate copy machine with my driver's license for the test drive too. I guess that in itself is worth another extra $500 profit. Oh yes, if I don't like the product from Wal-Mart, I can get my money back with a smile. Let's not even talk about what happens if the product is defective. Then again, the poor guy at Wal-Mart doesnt drive a Lexus SC400 while selling a value car either and maintaining they really dont make much money off of you. A quality car for less than 30K? Try an Infiniti G35, Honda's own Acura TL.
Peter85 (#765) where is this dealer at?
Also, to everyone posting prices please specify the region you're in (state, city), dealer name, salesman name and what's included in the price (like gotb #767). This way others living in the same area can benefit from the information and hopefully get the same deal !
Thank you
John Perry
Very simple experience - I talked to Paul Hamilton in the Internet department, got a demo of the car, and Paul quoted $250 over invoice. I would have preferred a gray interior, but Paul didn't locate more than a handful throughout the entire state (LX-V6s are apparently in remarkably short supply at present), and I didn't feel strongly enough about it to hold things up and buy a car that had been driven a few hundred miles from another dealer.
Carsdirect was quoting $650 higher on the same trim level, and after a couple of months of research and test drives it wasn't worth my time to haggle on price further, so the "negotiation" was very short.
The F&I guy did talk me into the 7/75 Honda Care extended warranty for another $1065, though it's possible that I'll take advantage of the 60 day full refund period on that after doing some more research. Any boards covering extended warranties, BTW?
As said before, we all pick our professions, and all dealers only have to sell a car at a certain price if they want to. As you noted, you turned away someone with a price that was below what you are seeking. Another dealer may find that price workable... that's how the system works. So don't complain... your not forced to sell the car at any price.
Oh, and just so you think of us consumers (who are professionals in other fields), I work for the government in national security areas, have advanced degrees, and will likely never make what a good used car salesman make (unless I leave the government). That's a choice I made, as I like what I do. The fact that I make less and spent more on education hasn't made me complain about getting fair value for my brain. We all make choices! Sell it to me at invioce or don't, but don't blame me for wanting to save money. For my part as a customer, I try to be frank, and ready to deliver when I say I will buy at this or that price. That is the best we can both do.
So the Navi systems come out in January or when do we think they will really hit the market?
Do cars with Navi usually sell quick, or is there a limited market usually. See, I was going to buy the EX-V6 in two weeks, but now I'm thinking of waiting...
You asked who is willing to discount services to a salesperson or dealership owner?
Look at response 775
After staying true to my price and working with two dealerships I had a standing offer of 600
over invoice with no trade by one dealership.
The other was MSRP and 16,675 trade for my
2000 accord ex v6. That offer descended $500
from the saleman's original offer by the sale manager. Still 1200 over my absolute best offer.
That was as of Friday night.
This weekend i was called by the general manager
of the dealership offering the higher of the two deals. He wanted to know why i didn't buy a car yet.
I told him it was simple. The price was higher than i was willing to go. He asked me what my deal was with dealership #1. He matched the offer of 600 over invoice and offered 15500 for the used car. I told him that we were still off.
He then said look for a few hundred dollars
he won't lose the sale.I told him 16000 for my car not a penny less, 600 over invoice for the new car. The doc fee and tags were proviously quoted by the salems manager at 102+. I told him that i was also offered 4.9 financing for 60 months by the other dealership. He said he could do all that. I said we'll if you can i'll do the deal now...
He then told me he had to see my used car again to do the deal. I reiterated that i will not budge and don't waste our time if he can't meet the criteria. I'm supposed to go in tonight to
do the credit ap and for him to look at the car.
My feeling is he's gonna take his last shot at
making the deal but will try like heck to give me less for my trade in. He probably figures with me there in person he has a better chance to work me than over the phone. I believe this because i told him saturday i would do the deal. It's strange to tell a buyer who says he'll buy now to wait two days.
Bottom line if he's feeling me out to see how much i want the car and trying to work me for the 500 dollars i'll walk.
Most people get trapped because the desire to have the car sometimes impedes the ability to
make a fair deal. People get over anxious whne they get close to gettting what they want. The sales people know it and take full advantage.
Never go food shopping when your hungry and try not to shop for a new car while your desire level
to own is out of control.
To add : is that a fair deal ?????
600 over invoice
16000 2000 ex v6 excellent shape 33,500mi, new insp, new brakes, well maintained.
I know i can get more on the open market, but i'll
also have to lose the tax advantage of trading in a 16000 car. In pa that's $1120. SO if i got 17120 for my car on the open market that would be the same thing. plus i don't have all the head-aches of selling the car and what goes along with it.
Any feed back
What an education for me! Thanks.
Wonder if Maryland has the trade-in tax advantage?
Starts me wondering what I would accept for trade-in of 99 Ody for $600 over invoice EX V6.....????
Dealer offered $16000, with Accord at MSRP. MSRP would be about $2k over invoice, and $16k was about $3.5k less than TMV. $5k apart???
$600 over invoice, and $18k for the van might do it for me with tax advantage.
SO if I trade in the 2000 exv6 accord that I bought new and paid taxes on. The $16000 will be deducted from the cost of the new car
by the dealership. For example : let's say I pay $24000 for the new car. I then deduct the $16000 for the trade. I pay taxes only on the 8000 or difference. So when I say I get a $1120 tax advantage. That means the 7% tax on 16000 dollars, the sales tax in pennsylvania.
If I sell my car privately, I lose that advantage.
SO I'd need to sell my car privately for $17120 to break even.
That's at least one case where by taking less from the dealership than selling privately, you do better.
May be close enough for me to visit!?!
By the way, they had a large inventory of sedans and COUPES!!
Anyway, save yourself $300 and buy the same Honda warranty directly from:
http://www.hondawarranty.com
Enjoy your $300 bucks !
Thanks for the warranty info! Will check them out and call some other local dealers too. The F&I guy was so insistent about my being able to cancel the warranty within 60 days for any reason, and so reluctant to budge at all on the price, that I won't feel any shame in cancelling if someone else will do substantially better.
Nice car so far. Anyone have recommends for aftermarket floor mats? :-)
I went to that Honda warranty page but no prices were listed. It just seemed to ask for a name and email to get specials... which I'm loath to give out just to get a price. Did I miss a page? Do you know how much the 7/100,000 one goes for? Thanks for the site though, I've bookmarked it.
INKY
He said he wanted me to stay a customer,use his service dept, and bring repeat business. I said
sure and requested for all future deals to deal with him. Hopefully he stays there a long time and maybe in five years or so i'll buy another.
My wife is looking sooner, so i think we might've developed a good relationship.
He's extending a few services, the normal stuff : tank fill up, mats, free shuttle service for when i have my car in the shop, free lifetime state & emmisions inspection. These are small things but he was quick to let me know.
My car will be on order though. He said they aren't being built until November ??
That seemed strange. I figured he could get a car sooner. That made me leary a lil.
I left a small "returnable deposit" & he locked in the price for my trade, provided i don't destroy the car, and new car as well( in writing). The car will have no more than double digit miles or 50 tops.
He also mentioned test cars which have 40 or so miles on them. I told him that could be a deal breaker. I probably over reacted and insisted on a non-test model. I qualified for the Honda financing under 5%. I told him that if that number changes that would definitely break the deal. he assured me that he had pull with the financing office and not to worry.
He gave me the option of other colors, ie the new graphite pearl with dark leather( beautiful),
but the wife wanted silver and black leather so
we'll have to wait.
When the deal's final and all that's promised comes true i'll sing praises then... So far I have
nothing really invested except a returnable deposit for $100.
I thought it was peculiar though that i had to wait until next month or so. The test model thing
raised some questions also. But i reiterated & insisted that i'll end the deal if i have to get a test model, end up with higher than 4.99 financing, or get a lower offer for my car come delivery....
I'm anxious but i think i have all bases covered.
http://hondawarranty.com/net/transferscript.cfm
Let me know if it works
Thanks
Adam
I was quoted $900 over invoice for a EX-V6.
Sales Manager acted like he just "gave" me the car... nice try. In this economy, i'm looking for a few hundred over or AT invoice.
Thoughts?
V6 and have seen a wide range of starting prices.
e.g. one dealer with a market adjustment over MSRP.
TIA
IJY