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Comments
So - should you buy the Honda Care extended waranty? Well, how long do you expect to keep the car? If you plan to keep it a long time that's certainly an argument in favor of buying the warranty. Even if you think you might sell the car before the warranty is up, the warranty is transferable to the new owner and should, therefore, increase the sales price you'd get when you sold. (Folks seem to report that this is, in fact, the case - that buyers definitely value having the extended warranty when buying a used Honda.)
Should you buy the warranty if it costs $1800? If the warranty were available only for that price I'd have a hard time justifying it. But at $755? I think $755 represents very good value.
One apparent advantage of the Honda Care warranty is that it is backed by Honda itself. If there's a problem with something covered by the warranty, they fix it - unlike a "third party" warranty where you may have to pay for the repair yourself and then file a claim with the warranty company.
One more point: If you buy the waranty and decide you've made a mistake, you can get your money back any time within the first 60 days. Also - you don't have to buy the warranty immediately; as long as your car has less than 6000 miles on it you qualify for the "new vehicle" coverage and pricing. So you can buy your car and enjoy it for a bit, then buy the warranty if it still seems like the right thing to do. So - there's really no pressure to make the "warranty decision" right now . . . and don't let your dealer tell you otherwise!
One of the four local dealers I requested Edmunds quotes from finally committed via email to sell me an SE V6 for 20,750 including any dealer or doc fee (which is typically 500 - 700 around Central Florida). So basically 1000 back of invoice. With the understanding that I would be taking advantage of an AHFC special program.
This particular dealer also happened to be one of those dealers that likes to pre-add a number of dealer installed options as soon as they roll off the truck (and then of course bump up the price accordingly) so I actually ended up with a better deal. These items are included in the 20,750 so in a way I guess I did do better than 1000 under invoice.? Depending on the value one might give these items.
This SE V6 had the following added:
Lo-Jack 695.00, Painted Pinstripes 295.00, Wheel Locks 195.00, Splash Guards 395.00,
Trunk Tray 195.00
Total of 1,775
Anyway I walked out with the above for 185.11 + 12.03 tax (6.5%) for a total payment of 197.14 (24mo 15k lease) while only paying first payment and Florida license fee. Funny how Honda and dealers push 36mo which is actually about $20 mo higher than 24mo!
So, if that is true, if you could get one without Lojack, $395 splash guards and a more reasonable doc fee, buyers could probably get into an LX V6 for $0 cap reduction, less than $200 per month., 24 months and 15K allowed miles per year.
Even if the only way they can make any profit at the base price listed is by adding the extra high-margin junk (meaning that if you were to take one without that stuff, they wouldn't discount the base price as much) the LX V6 still shouldn't be all that much more for the same term and mileage.
I'd probably lease one for 2 years for that price, but I don't see anyone else saying that's a realistically available deal today.
Maybe you had an unmentioned trade-in they are going to auction off for much more than they gave you (and that will make the deal highly profitable to them even at the numbers you listed for the lease)?
Do the math or go to www.leaseguide.com
20,750 cap + 595 acq fee = 21,345
23945 MSRP SE V6
+900 (SE V6 option pkg discount)
+1775 (dealer added options)
26,620 x 69% = 18,367.80 (residual)
.0009 factor
The dealers don't even know how good of a lease program AHFC has. The 24mo payment was $20 lower than the 36mo.
The additional dealer add-ons actually help lower the payment because they are residualized at the 69% for 24mo 15k miles.
As a matter of fact the payment is actually lower. They neglected to residualize the $900 option discount package. I went back to have them correct it which at 69% brought the payment down to $160 + tax.
This is such a no brainer I decided to get another one in case the incentives and residual percentages change after tomorrow 4/30.
2007 Honda Accord LX Sedan Auto Black, Odometer: 5 miles
Price: $17943
Destination: $595
Tags/Fees/Title: $146.50
Taxes (6% + additional county Tax): $1,135.31
OTD Price: $19,819.81
I also got 4.9% financing,
Dealer threw in pin striping and scotch guarding.
Ed Morse Honda, Riviera Beach, FL
Thanks for the information everyone posted! It was very helpful.
2007 Honda Accord EX-L V6 Sedan Auto w/Navigation:
(Royal Blue Pearl, Odometer: 86)
plus Dealer's Accessories: Wheel Locks, Pin Stripe
MSRP: 30,205 (Base 29,400 + Freight 595 + Accessories 210)
PAID: 25,723.81
(Base & Accessories 25079.81 + Freight 595 + Dealer Fee 49)
TAX (MD 5%): 1286.19
TITLE/TAG: 190.00
OTD: 27,200 (with 2.9% Financing for 36 months)
DEALERSHIP: Hagerstown Honda/Kia (Hagerstown, MD)
The salesperson went back to his manager 4 times before coming down to this price. I felt I could have gotten at least $200 lower. One thing I didn't care for was that they did not honor the $500 OFF coupon they had emailed me, if I buy before 4/30/07. They used the quote of "Not valid with any other offer" and said that they already gave me another offer. Is that legit?!?!?!
Also, has anyone kept track of the best quotes so far for this vehicle model? If so, please share. My girlfriend is planning to get one as well, and I would like to get her a better deal if possible.
Thanks in advance!
I am not sure they will be happy with $1,775 worth of dealer "junk" added onto the MSRP and residualized into the lease. The Lojac might be worth some of what they charged, but the other prices are GROSSLY overpriced (the trunk tray is $83, the wheel locks are $30, etc).
If someone is paying attention, they will not approve the deal - I would not think.
If they do fund the lease, be sure you have GAP insurance coverage either through AHFC or your insurance company or both - as in the event of a total loss the bloated residual + unpaid principal and interest will likely be well in excess of the market value of the car.
Dennis
I don't remember seeing a line item for splash guards and trunk mats when you calculate values of use cars.
Even the LoJack will not add much at resale time. They certainly are not going to bring back anywhere near 69% of the original inflated prices.
Interesting that this person that they "miscalculated" the deal and still went back and changed it after he had already signed and agreed on the original deal.
I am in the BayArea also, What dealer was it?
:shades:
Since I knew I was not getting the best price in person, I have now tried the email route with a dealership. However, the salesman keeps emailing monthly payments and mixing up information. I'm sure this is to encourage you to call. I wish they would stop the bs. If someone would just give me a fair deal, I would have signed the lease papers 2 months ago. New rates come out tomorrow so I'm waiting until then to do anything.
Thanks for the help! I appreciate it.
In this case I would say the same saying applies in reverse. If the dealer can only give you BS, then walk away and talk to another dealer.
Try Boch over in Norwood, MA. They claim to be the largest Honda dealer in the US and I have heard of some super prices from them. Maybe they can give you a straight deal on the price and on the lease? If not them, check with more dealers and don't waste your time with someone who will not give you the figures when you ask for them.
Dennis
new vehicle sale: $21,198.00
5% state tax(MA): $1,059.90
plate and reg.: $86.00
documentation fee: $299.75
----------------------------
total: $22,643.65
What do you guys think?
How do you like the car so far?
If I was shopping for a V4 and got more quotes than just my one, I think I would have gotten it $500 lower.
BTW, it's not V4, but I4 (inline 4 cylinder).
Base price + dealer options + destination: $23,500
My added options: $998.50
Dealer document fees: $499
Total before TTL: $24,997.50
My added options included wheel locks, front and rear all season mats, door edge guards, Music link for iPod (dealer had to substitute for original Apple unit not being sold any more) and automatic day/night mirror w/compass (they agreed to split cost on this one).
Subtracting the dealer added options, that's $1,851 below invoice and falls in line (actually below) the $1,500 below invoice target I got from this forum.
Purchased on 4/30 from Honda Mall of Georgia in Buford, GA via internet quoting system. Had also considered the V6 version (too low of gas mileage by comparison and that is what we were going for), a Toyota Camry more expensive after adding nav system, stability control and XM which were standard on the Accord) and the Acura TL (nicer by far, but not worth it if gas mileage was determining factor).
Purchased April 7th, 2007. White 4 door SEDAN EX-L V-6 Automatic with Navigation (see #14632)
NO TRADE IN!
NO FINANCING!
#1.) $25,061.76 = The ACTUAL purchase price LISTED “ON MY PURCHASE CONTRACT” for this vehicle (NOT INCLUDING DEALER OPTIONS, tax, tags, etc.)
#2). $29,900 = IS the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for the SEDAN EX-L V-6 AT with Navigation (NOT INCLUDING DEALER OPTIONS, tax, tags, etc.)
#3.) $26,627 = IS the National AVERAGE Invoice Price (standard features only) for this basic SEDAN EX-L V-6 AT with Navigation (NOT INCLUDING DEALER OPTIONS, tax, tags, etc.)
#4.) $3,100 = The total amount listed “ON MY PURCHASE CONTRACT” for the OPTIONS BELOW that I personally elected to have added to this vehicle (ALL OF WHICH PROVIDE ME WITH A PROFESSIONALLY INSTALLED, THREE YEAR, DEALER INSTALLED WARRANTY - No wasted time looking for cheaper "limited warranty" parts on the internet, No trying to find some guy to intall my parts without screwing up my vehicle or the part, no tools to buy, no worries, no problem, no risk, no faulty or improper installation, I am ready to roll
$ 61 Cargo Net (they "threw this in" for the total bottom price I was willing to pay for the car but they still had to list it on the purchase order and list a price with it).
$ 76 Wheel Locks (I didn't want to mess with buying them and putting them on myself - don't forget to purchase a torque wrench when you purchase your wheel locks somewhere else)
$125 Pinstripe (I like it . . . a lot!)
$138 Splash Guards (if they fall off I got a three year dealer installed warranty and I didn't have to buy a drill and drill bits and spend worrisom/valuable time on my back under the vehicle to get it installed perfectly!)
$300 Paint and Leather Protection Package (7 year warranty/renewable for life/ includes DAMAGE REPAIRS to exterior paint and interior leather for the life of car ownership as long as I renew every 7 years)
$399 Paint Matched Moldings (including Fender well and door edge trim) Looks great and protects my side door panels from dents and bangs
$440 Fog Lights (I can see better on the road and it looks wicked at night)
$587 Rear Wing Spoiler (Is the paint on a perfect match with the rest of the vehicle and did you drill the holes through the trunk lid in the right place? Hope you got the time, the skill level and the right tools, which cost money too)
$980 Eight (8) year Extended Honda Care Warranty (Zero Deductible).
ONE CRITICAL ITEM GOES WRONG AND THE EXTENDED WARRANTY PAID FOR ITSELF! THE NAVIGATION SYSTEM ALONE COULD COST A SMALL FORTUNE TO REPAIR. RARELY CAN YOU GET A CAR IN AND OUT OF THE SHOP THESE DAYS FOR ANY REPAIR UNDER A GRAND, NO MATTER HOW MINOR IT IS! BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY BUT DON’T GET ROBBED.
#5.) $28,161.76 = Is the TOTAL COMBINED PURCHASE PRICE PAID (NOT INCLUDING tax and tags) when adding #1 (Purchase Price listed on contract paper) plus #4 (the eight year warranty WITH all the options I selected).
DON’T PURCHASE AN EXTENDED WARRANTY AND DON’T PURCHASE ANY OPTIONS AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THIS VEHICLE FOR CLOSE TO $25,000! (NOT INCLUDING TAX AND TAGS)
^&^you know what, today I went to the dealer, pick up my accord exl 2.4l at, and got a problem with finance---it looked a little big tricky!!!two days ago the dealer said he was sure that credit score 710&up could get the prefer finance rate 2.9%for 36months. I am sure that my credit score was 720, is it count for "good credit"? I just applied a diamont reward credit car last night, and got approved right away, but today... when i showed up ,I was told by the financal guy that i just qualified for 9%( from toyota financing)instead of that 2.9%, Honda finance declined my application!!have you even seen something like this before?? :mad:
sale price$21575
doc fee $58.00
sales tax(8.75%)
new T&P $143...
...
OTD price $23670.
Obviously, if what you were saying about the Hondacare service contract were true, and a high percentage of buyers had covered claims higher than the amount of their paid premium, the program wouldn't have a valid business plan.
The chances of the nav system working fine for 3 years, then failing during years 4-7 are very slim. At the rate of current improvement, in 4 years cell-phone based nav systems will have the features of a 2007 Accord anyway and you'll be able to buy one for less than the cost an updated map DVD on a 4 year old Accord. A2DP stereo Bluetooth is a very slick way to integrate a cell phone-based nav system and music player into car stereos without wires.
Leather and paint protectant?
I bet the "damage repair" is subject to lots of caveats, weasel-out interpretations and discretion of the company.
(I wrote a long reply to your previous post - then lost it in the great ethernet in the sky somewhere!)
Now that you've actually signed papers it looks like you're committed to the 9% Toyota financing unless you come up with something else. I think I'd try these guys first in attempting to get a better rate: http://www.capitalone.com/autoloans/index.php
Good luck . . . and hey, enjoy your new car!
this is my first car~yeah!!!exciting!!!got the insurance from farmers insurance $760/6months for hubby&me,suggested by the dealer,but the insurance agent seems like they know each other very well!!!any better insurance???
could i just get my loan from internet or local bank( the rate might be 1~2%different),around 6-7.5%, which one is better? internet?local bank?at the beginning i tried to pay all by using credit card,0%for a year*, he said they only could accept up to 5000 from credit card.
Obviously you consider yourself to have all the answers about the Honda Care Service Contract, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Slim or not, nav systems can and do fail. You are free to take the chance and gamble that you're NOT going be the who has the unfortunate experience of having an expensive electronic or mechanical failure. Do I really need to mention that the extended eight year warranty covers substantially more than JUST the navigational system? I just used that as an example!
I'm sure that in four years there will be a lot of technical improvements but I'm not in the process of buying a new car four years from now, so I could care less. As for Bluetooth, I have no desire or use for it.
The Honda Navigational system includes a comprehensive voice command prompt system which operates the radio, A/C, DVD, information center as well as the Navigation system itself. Have fun with your cell phone four years from now! It will be interesting to watch you squinting to read the map and turns on your postage stamp sized cell phone screen while driving with one hand on the wheel. I doubt that your cell phone will be able to voice operate the vehicles audio and A/C controls.
If you would actually take the time to READ the paint and leather protectant warranty certificates you would find that you lost your bet! This is not the "The chances are" or "I'll bet" forum! I'll be looking forward to your "price paid and buying experience" which is what this forum is all about. When the time actually arrives for you to buy your next Honda, it would be interesting to see if, in the end, you include any "high margin fluff" for yourself
This is absolutely NOT true. As long as your car has less than 6000 miles on it, you can purchase the extended warranty for a "new vehicle". Please check with these folks if you have any questions - they are the ones selling the 7/100000/0 warranty for $755, not $1800 or $1620 or whatever your local dealer is trying to gouge you for. Here's the link:
http://myhondawarranty.com/
There is a FAQ page on their website, and you can also call them with any questions. From reading these forums it's clear that many Honda owners have bought their extended warranty from this company - Saccucci Honda - and saved significant money.
PS: Do not succumb to the pressure (and lies?) of your local dealer. You will save a lot of money buying the warranty online - and it is exactly the same warranty your dealer is trying to sell you for twice the $$. And don't let them tell you if you buy it elsewhere it's not valid at your local dealer - it can be used at any Honda dealer.
Good luck - stay strong.
For #3 (Invoice): The $26,627 doesn't include the $595 Freight charge, so if you add those that in, it would be $27,222.
So if your sale price includes the Freight charge, then that said you got it for $2,160 below invoice. WOW!!! Awesome job. I think I only got mine for $1,700 below invoice. CONGRATS on your new car with all the extra bells and whistles. Mine doesn't have those extra stuff, but I love it regardless.
BTW, why would you need a torque wrench if you purchase your Wheel Locks somewhere else?
Controlling the stereo and A/C by voice isn't worth much when you already have steering wheel controls and/or automatic A/C.
It is a gimmick that many Honda owners have posted that they gave up using after the novelty wore off.
As one who has driven my 2004 Accord with Navigation since December 2003, I cannot agree at all with your "gimmick" position.
The wonderful Honda voice-controlled system is extremely useful. Its most valuable feature is that it keeps your eyes SAFELY on the road and your hands SAFELY on the steering wheel when you input commands. Yes, I already have limited steering wheel controls for the audio system and an automatic climate control system. However, there are MANY more features that can be controlled much more conveniently by voice than by those manual controls.
1½"-screen cellular phone navigation is only useful where your own cellular carrier has coverage, since it works only via cell tower triangulation, not via satellite. If you are in an area not covered by your native cellular carrier (such as in another part of the country) you cannot navigate, even though you may still be able to make roaming phone calls.
7"-screen satellite navigation works EVERYWHERE there is a view of the sky.
Not that this is a discussion for this particular forum, but the trend is toward real GPS in cell phones, although the GPS and cellular repeater triangulation is more robust and reliable than the "dead reckoning" in most vehicles.
I agree with you about a tiny cellular phone screen being totally worthless for nav while you are driving, or just about any other time.
Nighthawk: You did just fine. Remember that he paid over $3000 in options which helped the dealer make a lot of the profit back. Your car without the "extra stuff" was an excellent deal for $1700 below invoice. (However, if you had a trade or paid a high doc fee, it may not be so excellent.)
This does nothing to the dealer proceeds as the selling price was unchanged. Save me an additional 25 a mo that Honda Finance would have gotten. Sorry I think I need it more than they do.
With respect to the adds on options, I have received conflicting information. Residualized options are supposed to be "hard" options. Of course one would need to know exactly what a given lender considers a hard option. I would assume that Genuine Honda options would be considered, but couldn't say for sure.
They did put the whammy on me and decided not to let me get a second one for 20,750 last night and gave me the reason that the original sales manger who wrote up the deal on Saturday should not have residualized the options. I would probably have just taken word on that if it were not for the fact that this dealer slaps a handfull of options to every car they get and has done so for many years. hard to imagine that the sales manager would not know that they could not be if in fact they cannot. I think they just thought they sold me the first car too cheap.
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If your credit is not strong enough to get a good rate, you are at the mercy of the dealership's F&I guy. They really can get folks financed that can't get financed at their own bank - but usually at a price. If you are in this case, you should keep driving what you have now, get something cheap and used, and get your credit back in order. If the banks will not give you a loan at a good rate, they may be right - and taking a higher rate loan from a dealer will just lead to worse credit.
If you have good enough credit, the C1 online rates will likely be better than your bank and perhaps your credit union. And as was mentioned you get an answer right away and a blank check in a few days (or next day for $10).
The CC companies charge a fee to the dealer - maybe as high as 3% - for the use of the car. So accepting a card on a $20,000 purchase could cost them as much as $600 lost profit.
Go with whoever will give you the best rate, get a check and pay them for the car and get rid of that 9% financing.
Dennis
If they said they wanted all the accessories up front and said they planned on buying HC and protection package then they could have gotten a low ball price on the car - knowing that they would make up profit on all the "fluff stuff".
They may have done a good job on the price, then let the dealer make back the savings on the extras and "protection" packs.
The stated claim that you could buy this same car for $25k is probably not true. If you take all the extras off you might end up at $25k, but the dealer would not let it roll off the lot for that including dealer fee and destination. If you take invoice less 100% of hold back and $750 in dealer money you end up at $25,572. At $25k or $25.5k without a dealer fee they would be losing money to sell the car - at that will not keep the lights on. They COULD sell you the car for that price IF they added on a dealer fee and you purchased a bunch of accessories and mop and glow and stuff.
As to the NAV system, I do like OEM factory NAV systems. No theft risk, usually easy to use and see. The down side is the silly high cost the auto makers put on them - then most of them have infrequent map updates and when they do they can cost $200 or more for the new maps. You can get a Garmin GPS for as little as $200 and a really nice one for not much more. New maps come out about every 12 months and the charge for updates is $75. Higher theft risk, not integrated into the car, but a whole TON cheaper. I have both and have had for years and it is getting really hard to justify the OEM NAV systems on price and map update prices.
Dennis
give me all of the rates. This is a quote that I obtained May 1, 2007 for a 24 month lease with 12,000 miles per year:
2007 Honda Accord EX(V4 with cloth)
Sticker price: $24,095.00
Sale price: $21,899.00
Residual: $16,143.00
Residual %: 67%
Money factor: .00078
Amount down: $775.97..Inception fees & 1st months payment
Monthly payment:$324.53(includes 6% CT sales tax)
This quote was from a dealer with a non commissioned sales staff. Personally, I think it is high! Help!
My cell phone has real GPS and I don't even look at the screen since it gives great audio instructions.
GM has OnStar navigation available that has no screen at all. 100% voice guidance.
Back to the Honda, if I were to get an Accord with nav, I wouldn't worry about it costing thousands to fix out of warranty since the odds extremely slim that it would work during the first 3 years and fail in the next 4. The main moving part is the DVD disc drive itself and that doesn't cost thousands.
While it is possible for an extended warranty to cover repairs that have a higher value than the cost of the warranty on an individual car, if you buy extended warranties on all of the next 20 cars you buy in your lifetime, you will have spent several times more in premiums than you will have received in covered claims. This is true even if you get some major repairs covered on a few of those vehicles.
I got it from Hayward Honda last week. Man that is the best deal you can get. They said they lost money on it. This is included wheel locks and floor mats. 2.9% finacing, I was surprise with this rate. I want to get one more like this. Good luck
How much does your cellular phone company's Telenav/data package cost per month? An OnStar Navigation subscription costs about $27 per month and you can't even see an electronic map.
The only cost with an OEM Honda Navigation system, commanded by YOUR OWN voice, is up front. There are no continuing MONTHLY COSTS.
I already had a compatible phone, so adding Telenav is $5.99 per month if you don't think you will be using it often (10 trips per month) or you can sign up for unlimited service for $9.99 or you can prepay 2 years unlimited for $199 in advance.
Your maps and points of interest are updated automatically.
How much does a Honda DVD update disc cost? Divide that by 12 and that is your additional cost for keeping current data that may already be several months old at purchase time.