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Comments
One example (different market - SF Bay Area - but still useful info I think): I got an in-person, no-added-bogus-fees-or-dealer-options quote of $23,488 last week for the EX-L V6 AT. Good luck!
After reading the prices everyone else seems to be getting, I really wish I could take it back and start over...Nothing will make you feel more stupid than overpaying for a car.
Lynnwood Honda (northern suburb of Seattle) quoted me $600 under invoice, or $19596 for the car. This is significantly under Edmunds and CarsDirect for the Seattle area. Unlike Honda of Bellevue (who quoted me $500 under), I wasn't forced to put wheel locks, door edge guards, or wheel moldings that I didn't want. They gave me a fair deal on my trade, while Bellevue wasn't even willing to appraise my van without me first committing to buy the car from them! Bellevue also didn't include the destination charge in their quote. Boo!
I'd highly recommend Lynnwood over the other area dealers. They were HONEST and willing to work out a fair deal for all involved. I would be willing to pay more for an honest dealer any day of the week. The other area dealers (Bellevue in particular) had pushy salesmen whose sole interest seemed to be talking over you and dismissing everything you said at their profit and your expense.
#1. Beam me up, Scotty! . . . (this comment concluded at bottom of page) . . .
$25,061.76 = The ACTUAL purchase price LISTED “ON MY PURCHASE CONTRACT” for this vehicle (NOT INCLUDING DEALER OPTIONS, tax, tags, etc.)
Group some of these "dealer installed options" (see #14895 for individual price itemization). Start with the labor and equipment to dig the raw elements out of the earth, include cost of labor and equipment to manufacture the elements into marketable consumer material, included packaging and shipping costs, bring in the skilled professional dealer installation (with employee insurance and benefits), buildings, tool equipped shop and 3 year warranty:
$700 = total for all the following options combined: Cargo Net; Wheel Locks; Pinstripe; Splash Guards; Application of Paint and Leather Protection Package (labor/materials)
$839 = total for all the following options combined: Painted matched side Moldings (as well as Fenderwell trim and door edge guard) and installation of Fog Lights (labor/materials)
$587 = Rear Wing Spoiler (labor/materials)
Pure Dealer Profit? – I DON’T THINK SO! Did they make a few dollars? Certainly! Or they couldn’t have sold me the car. I won’t begrudge the dealer making a few bucks on each option (they certainly didn't make it on the listed purchase price of the vehicle on the contract). Whereas others in this forum go into DENIAL and take huge risks in order to save a few bucks (i.e. internet parts and self installation, reducing a dealer installed warranty to "none") RATHER THAN ADMIT THAT THEY AREN’T ( or weren’t) CAPABLE OF NEGOTIATIATING A BETTER DEAL! It’s in my best interest that Honda stay in business; therefore they must make a profit! However, I am absolutely certain of the fact that the dealer is accustomed to making considerably MORE profit off the average consumer! Criticism over my (freedom of) CHOICE of options has mostly been my reward for trying to help others in this forum understand that they can get a better deal too. I am sure that is why there are those that come into this forum and deliberately choose to give limited or fuzzy details in order to avoid criticism from lurking "have nots"
Fluff and stuff? DEALER JUNK? – :P
$980 = The cost for extending the standard three year dealer warranty into an EIGHT YEAR/120,000 mile Honda Care Dealer Warranty which translates into FREE REPAIRS to all critical and major components for EIGHT YEARS. To say that this extended warranty is a waste of money IF, IF, IF, IF something lasts more than three years then it will last forever is . . . well . . . :lemon:
Yes, remarkably, all the above "optional" items (which includes the addition of the extended eight year zero deductible warranty for only $980) does add up to 3K. That doesn’t automatically translate into “it helped the dealer make a LOT of the profit back” :sick:
(conclusion of comment from #1 above) . . . there is no intelligent life on this planet!
P.S. Yes, the $25,061.76 sale price does include the $595 freight charge. A torque wrench is required to tighten down the wheel lock (and lug nuts) to an equal amount of pressure distribution around the wheel rim.
Thanks again for your comment
For the record, there are always those who don't like a certain option or dealer add-on and those that do. I think that most agree "to each his/her own" in this case. Some get sarcastic or over the top when discussing a certain option, like a rear spoiler, but the bottom line is that it is personal preference.
Extended warranties have such varying opinions that there is a separate topic on Edmunds. Some do not think they are worth the price, others love the peace of mind they bring. Some pay way too much, others get great deals on them.
The various paint and interior protection packages are even more controversial. Even some of the sales staff that post here and elsewhere agree that there is a large amount of profit in them. That doesn't mean that anyone who buys one is an idiot. I've got very strong opinions about them that I choose not to share at this time... but I'm a car detail nut and wouldn't let anyone touch my paint or leather.
The point that some have been trying to make is that no one can compare the $25,061.76 sales price with a deal they may be making without all the dealer add-ons because there is so much profit in the extra stuff. Someone who pays $26k for the car but only $2k for the add-ons is getting the same deal but it may look like they are paying more for the car. It's extra hard to figure value because I'm not aware of any place that lists invoice prices for those items, including installation.
As for paying to have things like mud flaps and rear wings installed, nothing wrong with that at all. It is certainly cheaper to buy the part and do it yourself but not everyone has the skill or wants to take the time to do it.
It's all about choice and comparing apples to apples. Heck, look at all the people who think that buying an Accord is a stupid decision!
What are the risiduals and MF's right now? I see a lot of different rates listed. Does $13181.60 sound right for pay off amount?
Thanks
Shane
I decided not to buy the Honda car from the local dealer due to their price. I got a quote from a Toyota dealer for camry much lower than Honda accord. Bought a Camry LE OTD price 20850. Details are in Toyota Camry buying experience.
A properly negotiated purchase of an Accord would result in an actual cost of a Navigation system of no more than $1,800.
I've not bothered to buy ANY of the new $185 DVD updates since December 2003 as there are not that many changes from year-to-year. To see what I mean, click here:
https://store.alpine-usa.com/Hondadvdsales/naviorder.php
Click "Find out what's new for your vehicle's navigation DVD update"
Select 2004
Select Accord
Click Prior Updates near the bottom of the page.
While taken as a whole, the entire USA and Canada may have had many updates. However, most folks will not see many changes for whichever areas they might frequent.
The most significant might be newly-built neighborhoods. But in anyone's own area, that might not be of any importance at all. Yes, restaurants and retailers do go in and out of business, but I've never been inconvenienced.
The 2003 NAVTEQ maps and points of interest (POI) in the OEM Accord system don't have that many differences from the 2006 NAVTEQ maps and POIs in my wife's pocketable Garmin nüvi 350 navigation system. I haven't purchased the one $75 update available for that unit either.
A database upgrade once every five years may be something to consider.
You wrote: "I already had a compatible phone, so adding Telenav is $5.99 per month if you don't think you will be using it often (10 trips per month) or you can sign up for unlimited service for $9.99 or you can prepay 2 years unlimited for $199 in advance."
Shall I presume that to get the $5.99 per month rate your cellular carrier required you to subscribe to a premium-priced data package? Or can someone with plain voice service just spend an additional $5.99 monthly? Probably not.
$23,651
$595 Destination
$299 Dealer Conveyance(on the high end)
$1472.70 CT sales tax
$170 Regisration
$26187.70 Total out the door
Pick up the car on Friday Honda of Westport. 4 dealers couldn't compete, Westbrook and Danbury may have, but they got back too late
I can't imaging keeping a 4 year old DVD map even if I lived in an older area that didn't have as many new roads and stores.
I forgot about the data access since I had already been using it for over a year for internet access and e-mail before I added the Telnav service. So, yes if you get a data plan for the sole purpose of using Telenav, then it will be pricey to pay for data service for that single use. $9.99 per month for 5MB of data or $19.99 for unlimited data on a smartphone.
No one knows for certain (and does not wish to appear to possess the common sense to figure it out for themselves) WHAT IT ACTUALLY COSTS THE DEALER to purchase and professionally install a "fluff and stuff" item on the vehicle, therefore, IT MUST BE totally needless and . . . "pure dealer profit"!!!!
OH MY! then that means . . whatever I paid . . . I PAID TOO MUCH!
When it comes to the topic of "fluff and stuff" the general attitude in this forum seems to be: forget about professional installation; forget about dealer warranty; buy your "fluff and stuff" off the internet; do it yourself; "it's just mop and glo"; an eight year extended warranty is useless IF nothing goes wrong in three years; the nav system is just overpriced and useless because it's map is soon to be outdated by the next new street or restaurant; and my personal FAVORITE: if the dealer made an ounce of profit "You paid too much!".
I'm getting the message loud and clear.
Scotty? You still there? Where's that transporter beam I ordered? Get me the #$@!&% out of here! :shades:
Thanks again. It's been fun!
Here is an itemized "line by line" breakdown on the invoice in the exact order that the dealer listed. I didn't care how the dealer juggled or arranged the numbers at the top (for options, etc.) just as long as they gave me the agreed upon purchase price for the vehicle on the bottom line ($29,701 including tax and tags). Yes, I said I wanted all the accessories up front and said I planned on buying HC and protection package". Please be certain to include what EACH AND EVERY "FLUFF AND STUFF" item ACTUALLY COSTS THE DEALER TO PURCHASE AND INSTALL on the vehicle (compared to what was actually listed on the purchase invoice as being paid for each item) so we can see the exact dollar amount of "make up profit" the dealer actually pocketed on the entire deal. Thank you for being exacting in your mathematical figures. I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to do this. I particularly want to thank you in advance for withholding any negative comments concerning my choice in options (or their benefit value) as that is a matter of personal preference. Just listing the amount of "make up profit" to the dealer would mean a great deal and be most appreciated. Thanks much!
NEW 2007 HONDA ACCORD 4DR White
EX-L V-6 with Automatic Transmission and Navigation
ORIGINAL LIST $29,400
Navigation System Included/Freight $595
ENG1NE-3.0L DOHC V-6
TRANSMISSION-5 SPEED AUTOMATIC
*** DEALER INSTALLED ITEMS **
SPLASH GUARD SET $138
WHEEL LOCKS $76
PINSTRIPE $125
PAINTED MATCHED MOLDINGS $399
(as well as Fender well trim and Door edge trim included in the above price)
REAR WING SPOILER $587
FOG LIGHTS$440
CARGO NET $61
Discount $5,033.24
DEALER PROCESSING CHARGE $100
SELLING PRICE $26,881.76
Paint and Leather Protection $300
CASH PRICE $27,181.60
TAX $1,364.24
New Tags: 175
TOTAL $26,881.76
Eight year/120,000 mile “0” Deductible
EXTENDED SERVICE POLICY $980
FINAL CASH TOTAL $29.701
DOWN PAYMENT $29,701
TRADE-IN: NONE
TOTAL DOWN PAYMENT $29,701
"Hey look, they sold me the car for $2,000 under invoice!" I proclaim, and then don't tell you that I got ripped off on my trade in. No one could get that same deal without having a trade in - no matter how they list it on my paperwork. The same is true if you buy a bunch of extras at inflated prices and do this up front as part of the car. They can SHOW on the paperwork anything they want, in your case they appear to sell you the car cheap and then make all the profit back on the add-ons. If you had told them you didn't want anything added on to the car price (and they had not already started installing stuff) I would doubt you could have driven off the lot with the car for the price they "pretend" to giving you for the car.
I would NEVER buy a car by telling them up front that I wanted to buy all this extra stuff on it too. I would negotiate the best price on the car I could, then negotiate the price on the accessories I wanted one at a time - and only buy the ones that required a dealer to install.
Not counting install, splash guards are $66 a set, wheel locks are under $30, pinstripe is worthless, door edge guards are $46 for 4, fender trim under $60, spoiler is under $300, fog lights under $250, cargo net under $35, paint and leather protection is worthless, $980 is about the going rate for a $0 deductible 8/120k HondaCare warranty (you don't state if you purchased HondaCare or some 3rd party policy - if HC then good deal, if not HC then not a good deal at all). Allowing for reasonable install prices, there is a LOT of profit compared to your prices. Enough to let them sell you a car for what appears to be a nice price.
If you are happy with your deal, I am happy for you. I am sure if someone else agrees to buy all this stuff up front for these prices they could get a similar deal.
Dennis
Thank you so much for stepping up and accepting my challenge!
Ok, let’s take a look at the “DENNIS SCALE” pricing on “extras” and how much I was apparently (and I quote) “RIPPED OFF” (and I quote) “Not counting install”.
#1. $66 splash guards (all around) v.s. $138 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $72
#2. $30 Wheel locks (all around) v.s.$76 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $46
#3. “Worthless” pinstripe v.s. $125 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $125
#4. $106 total for door edge guards plus Fenderwell trim (no credit given by Dennis
for painted side moldings) v.s $399 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $293
#5. $300 Spoiler v.s. $587 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $287
#6. $250 Fog lights v.s. $440 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $190
#7. “Worthless” paint/leather prot. v.s. $300 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $300
#8. $35 Cargo Net v.s. $61 = “rip off” to me by dealer = $26
The Honda Care Warranty is precisely what I purchased so that would be a WASH (and I quote) “if HC then good deal”. I wouldn't even consider “some 3rd party policy”.
$ 2,126 = Represents the total dollar amount listed on the contract as paid to the dealer for ALL the above options (not including the Honda Care Warranty)
$ 787 = Represents the “DENNIS SCALE” maximum amount I SHOULD HAVE paid for JUST PARTS on all the extras (Not including DEALER install or a three year dealer warranty). LABOR is not factored into your pricing at all (and I quote) “Not counting install”. AND of course, you can see that there is NO cost for a PART deduction (on the “DENNIS SCALE”) for the painted side moldings, the “worthless” pin strip and the “worthless” paint/leather protection.
$1,339 = IS (according to the “DENNIS SCALE”) the amount I OVERPAID or was “ripped off” by the dealer on ALL my “extra’s” and/or “fluff and stuff”. Therefore, this would be the “make back” DEALER PROFIT on the purchase of the car that you referred too.
Gosh! YOU MADE IT SOUND LIKE I GOT RIPPED OFF FOR A LOT MORE MONEY THAT THIS! (“Not counting install”) :confuse:
Dennis SAYS: (and I quote) “in your case they appear to sell you the car cheap and then make all the profit back on the add-ons” . . . you “let the dealer make back the savings on the extras and "protection" packs”.
WE’LL SLAP ME SILLY! :surprise:
YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT I SCREWED UP AND ACTUALLY LET THE DEALER MAKE AN INCREDIBLY OUTRAGEOUS PROFIT OF $1,339 (on the “DENNIS SCALE” not including install) by stupidly purchasing all of those mostly “worthless” fluff and stuff options? OF COURSE, THIS PROFIT AMOUNT ONLY HOLDS TRUE FOR AS LONG AS WE DON’T INCLUDE THE COST OF LABOR FOR DEALER INSTALLATION and the three year dealer warranty. Well, we COULD give them SOMETHING for the cost of installation! LABOR ALMOST ALWAYS COSTS MORE THAN THE PARTS, but hey, I wouldn’t want to burst your bubble in spite of the fact that (maybe) you’re trying to burst mine. I have absolutely NO objection to doing my fair share to help Honda (and I quote) “keep the lights on” or (and I quote) "they wouldn't sell me the car". That $1,339 PROFIT should help them keep those overhead stadium type parking lot lights burning overnight for about a week or so.
Since I’m not a fan or member of the “buy your part off the internet, go to the additional expense of purchasing installation tools, have NO three year dealer warranty and spend hours on your back only to risk screwing it up yourself CLUB . . . I’m even more convinced that I did NOT get “ripped off” by the dealer at all. As matter of fact, I sincerely want to thank you, Dennis! Because I’m even MORE convinced than I ever was (thanks to the “DENNIS SCALE”) that I came extremely close to ripping the dealer off! I guess you could say I’m A MEMBER OF THE “GO, GO, GO, MOP AND GLO” - CLUB!
And I'm also a member of the “BUY MORE FLUFF AND STUFF AND GET IT FOR LESS” CLUB! Kind of like “buy one, get one free”.
Hey, thanks for playing! Oh, yes . . . and I also want to thank you for honoring my earlier request to "withhold any negative comments concerning my choice in options (or their benefit value) as that is a matter of personal preference."
Thanks for posting your experience in buying a Honda Accord. Part of the deal in relating your experience is other members can comment on it. They aren't always going to agree with your assessment of how well you did.
The most important thing is that you are happy with your car..
Now that it's been a month since you posted your deal, let's just move on.. and give others a chance.
Thanks,
kyfdx
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However, is it likely that the start of the official Honda Clearance sale (June?) will bring about even better discounts on the remaining inventory?
2007 Accord SE 4 cyl Auto in NJ
Target: 18,000 with 2.9% for 36 month.
or it will be better if I wait more to July or Aug to get better price and interest?
Please give me your ideas.
Thank you,
How do you get the information?
I try to buy accord in few months but waiting for best deal!
I was unaware that I had surpassed the allowable limit for replying to someone else who disagreed with my own assessment. :confuse:
Disagree away and I will make no further comments.
Good bye and good Honda fun to everyone. :shades:
Final Post!
How about 2.9% interest?
MSRP: $27,995
Invoice: $25,664
Our price: $24,164
Not all EX models come with leather. I think all EX-L models come with leather, and V6 only comes with EX-L in the EX class.
And if that is the final price without a trade and no doc or other dealer fee, that is a great price... assuming that is really that much under the invoice... I didn't look it up.
BTW, which dealership did you purchase your EX-L V6 w/navi at?
But if you go into dealer showroom, you may have better than 18500. Maybe, 18000 even.
Quick correction: I4 not V4
For some reason I cannot get the dealer to come down from $25,800.
I am trading a car in, so that may have something to do with it. I have a friend that works for Honda, only in another state (~500+ miles away). He told me what not to pay over and this guy wont budge. What gives?
Thoughts? :confuse:
Also seems to me it probably makes sense to negotiate/establish the selling price of the EX-L V6 first; then have the used car manager (or whomever) evaluate/appraise your trade-in - no sugar coating, just a realistic "here's what it's worth to us". Additionally . . . since there's a good bit of info on this forum re what is a competitive price on the EX-L V6, I think you could expect to pay within a fairly narrow range at several different dealers - BUT those dealers may very well appraise your trade-in quite differently from each other, depending upon whether they're going to wholesale it out or think they can sell it at quickly on their lot. All the more reason to have more than one dealer involved!
In any event - i recommend establishing the two items separately: 1) selling price of the new car 2) trade-in allowance on your old car.