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Comments
I couldn't believe it myself until I left the dealership with the car..
PS. Also got 3.9% thru honda...your prices are pretty on the mark. I think the factory is giving incentives to the delaer this month..hurry!!!
proimion> excellent posts by musicboy
Thank you, I think you’ll likely get great results via this email process if you get enough dealers to compete.
proimion> I'm going to start this On Tuesday
proimion> April 27, right at the start of "end
proimion> of month dealer desperation."
Excellent idea. Two suggestions that I would recommend. First I would send out your “New Car Bid Request” form (along with the carbon copies to all other dealer addresses you’ve obtained) on Sunday night the 25th and specifing a deadline of Tuesday or Wednesday for them to respond. That will give you a little time to get the most responses as well as time to reply for clarifications or price matching or other correspondence as might be necessary. It also allows you to have a little more time before the end of the month if a “deal” falls through and you have to go with another dealer. They will still feel the pressure under this time table.
Second, In addition to sending the request earlier and setting a deadline I would write in your letter to the dealers that you will be purchasing as soon as possible and NO LATER THAN APRIL 30. This should add a little more presure for them to send you their lowest bid the first time.
proimion> I've also done some research into what
proimion> is in stock at the dealers I'd
proimion> actually like to buy from.
That is very good. The dealers that have your exact vehicle in stock will likely be able to give you the lowest price.
proimion> These are my specifications:
I would add that it is a Sedan that you are desirous of purchasing to your specification description. I would also specify Honda’s model number of the trim of the vehicle that you want (CM5674JNW in your case) so that after you’ve got a deal they can’t later say something like they thought they were quoting on an coupe not a sedan.
Good Luck and be sure to let us know how you make out.
bilb656> dealership sell a car for UNDER the
bilb656> edmonds posted invoice value? Surely
bilb656> they arent taking a loss?
Here’s the math for your vehicle which will tell you what the dealer paid the manufacturer for the vehicle. The True Dealer cost including destination charge is Invoice ($24,244) minus Hold back ($792.00) minus Incentives ($0) which equals $23,452.
So if you paid $23,263 (including dest and doc fees but not TT&L) then it appears that you did indeed get a dealer to sell you a vehicle below their cost by $189.00.
Now there is also a $200 local/regional advertising fee built into the Invoice price that gets sent back to the dealer from the manufacturer. What we don’t know for sure about this fee is whether or not the dealer MUST spend this fee from every single vehicle or if they have some flexibility in keeping some of that. If the later is the case then they made $11 profit on you.
I was told that the likely reason some dealers will sell below cost was because Honda requires it's dealers to sell 62% of its cars as Civics and Accords in order to get it's allocation of the hot selling, in demand vehicles like the Pilot and Odyssey, CRV, etc., where they can often sell for above MSRP. In other words, they were gambling that in the long run they would be better off in the end by selling this vehicle below their cost to you.
I expect the Honda dealer makes a lot of money by establishing new customers to their service department.
I went in this week to have them confirm that the sunglass bin really doesn't stay closed (covered under warranty). It only took five minutes, but they offered to wash my car (for free), so I stuck around for another ten minutes.
I wasn't lucky enough to pay hundreds under invoice... *smile* I paid $23833.80 before tax and title (OTD price quoted to me over email) for an EX V6 in the color of my choosing in Ventura, CA. It's my first new car, and it was painless. So far, I'm very happy with my deal.
The invoice price for the car is $25651
Destination is $490
spilier $604(dealer price)
Ground effect $1217 (dealer price)
What do you guys think is a fair price to ask for? I am thinking about asking for $500 below invoice price.
Thanks a lot.
Paul
4 cyl. EX-L (Incls. leather, alloy wheels, side and curtain air bags.) $21,926.00 just add Tax & Tag
6 cyl. EX-L (same items as above) $23,913.00 just add Tax and Tag.
Also, would like opinions from those who already purchased a 4 cyl. are they happy with only having 160 hp. or do they now wish they had 240hp (v-6).
We are having a hard time trying to decide between both. Any info would be helpful. Thanks.
Here's the low down on my deal:
$25,165 Base incl. dest(Philadelphia Area)
$495 Auto-dimming Rear-view mirror
$0 Mud Guards ($160 Value)
-------
$25,660 Total Price
$1,684.60 TTL
-------
$27,344.60 Out the door Price.
Very pleasant buying experience, no haggling at all, feel like a got a good deal.
I shopped on the internet first, but the dealer closest to me had the best internet price.
I strongly recommend that you get a price quote form the internet sales department. They seem to give a little extra off.
1. Sales staff outside the building constantly watched for potential customers to drive up.
2. I was immediately greeted by "trainee" sales person, and requested info on a particular Honda. Trainee asked if I was buying today. I said I would have to drive the car to determine that.
3. Trainee ran off, got regular salesperson. The two escorted me to a honda of interest, then allowed a __short__ drive (5 minute, around the block). They offered comments and "promotions" during the drive.
4. Once drive was ended, salespeople hustled me into the dealer to meet the SalesManager. He asked "What do I need to do to sell you a car TODAY??" I explained I needed to now read some more about the car from their literature. At that point the salesmanager gave me the limpest handshake in the world and said "aw, he doesn't want to buy a car today" and walked off.
Guess what? I not only didn't buy it, but they never got another chance. Honda's good, but not THAT good.
I never stepped foot on a lot until I had detailed out-the-door quotes from all the places I was interested in shopping at. I called and made an appointment with the Internet sales manager, and ended up speaking and dealing with no one else during the seventy minutes (including test drive, paperwork, closing the deal, and vehicle inspection) that I was there.
Easy. No pressure. I'm happy with the experience.
Here's my current benchmark quote from a Honda Dealer in Maryland.
2004 Accord EX-V6,4dr,Silver,Blk Leather,
no add ons
Car+Dest:$23,215.00
TTL: 783.00
Process Fee: 100.00
Total "Out the Door": $23998.00
This sale person stated that there were no hidden fees, add-ons, etc... this was their final price.
I told the sales rep he is my benchmark at this point and will be making my decision by Wednesday once I hear from the other bids I put out.
This is definitely in the ball park for the total price I want to pay for this vehicle. For those in the know... what are my chances of getting it cheaper.
This forum is GREAT! Thanks for all the information everyone provides on this site.
2004 Accord EX-V6 Silver, Blk Leather, XM
$22,895.00 - Car including destination
$ 695.00 - Va Tax
$ 27.84 - Locality Tax
$ 39.50 - title / license
$ 299.00 - processing fee
$23,956.79 - Total "Out the door" price
She sweetened the deal with free add-ons (nothings free but its nice to think there's a possibility)
* Door Edge Guards
* Wheel Well Guards
* Pin Stripes (yuck... hoping I can opt out of that one)
* Mud guards
* Wheel Locks
* Floor mats (slight embellishment on that one since EX V6 automatically comes with them anyway. I can forgive that one I guess.
Thats the best offer so far. It sounds pretty good since destination is included with the 22,895.00 price tag for the car. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again... I love this forum. Actually makes car buying a fun process. Who would have guessed?? :-)
With respect to the 4 cyl. vs the V6, I have the EX-L 4 cyl. sedan with AT and it's plenty fast for me. It's effortless at 80 mph and highway gas mileage on a recent trip was 33.2 on a new engine. City mileage is 22.6--average mileage depends on the mix, of course.
Unless you're carrying a car full of heavy people and a trunk full of luggage, the 4 should be quick enough. By all means, test drive a 4 cyl. before you spend extra $$$ for the V6. The 4 is very smooth, too.
Note also that the 4 cyl. has a permanent timing chain instead of a belt--a consideration if you keep a car for a long time or drive many miles per year.
In the distant past, I've had a '68, 383 V8 Dodge Charger and a '72, 350 V8 Buick Skylark (I'm still trying to forget the horrible, '66, 289 V8 Ford Fairlane pile of junk--phooey!). Anyway, after having some relatively fast cars like those, the 4 cyl. Accord seems just as responsive to me. Try it...........Richard
I am soliciting bids from local dealers on two trims of the Accord and would like your opinions on whether the following numbers are good. I got them from the "no haggle but there's some wiggle room" Internet salesperson at one dealership.
#1 - EX 4 Cyl, cloth upholstery with curtain air bags:
- dealer's bid is $19,429
- true dealer cost I calculate to be $19,835
- invoice $20,519
- total out-the-door is $21,284.64
#2 - EX 4 Cyl with leather:
- dealer's bid is $20,777
- true dealer cost I calculate to be $21,138
- invoice $21,867
- total out-the-door is $22,713.52
Edmunds' holdback article states that holdback is 3% of MSRP ($22,800 for #1, $24,300 for #2) so that is what I subtracted from invoice to get true dealer cost ... $684 for car #1, and $729 for car #2. Since the dealer's cost is below this, either I am calculating it incorrectly or they are playing with the advertising fee, as musicboy mentioned in post #4415. Or maybe my $1 calculator from WalMart just isn't working right!
Dealer's bid does not include destination ($490), motor vehicle fees ($79), NJ sales tax (6%) or documentation fee ($91.50).
I realize the documentation fee is a little high, but you have to give these folks some points for creativity ... why not $90 or $95? ;-) Anyway, I am concentrating on the out-the-door prices, which look pretty good to me, anyway. What do you guys think??
sarakay> working right!
Looks like all the calculations are correct. There has been some mention (mostly rumors)on these boards that Honda was currently offering some manufacturer to dealer incentives. At the end of March they were providing $400 for the Accord.
All of the online services that I've checked including Edmunds do not list any current incentives (other than financing and leasing) available for the Accord. Of course there might be one and it just hasn't appeared or been updated yet. You might just want to ask your dealers if there are any Manufacturer to Dealer incentives available. If there are I'm sure they will tell you by probably saying it is already included in their quote. That could account for the below cost price.
Otherwise you may have dealers that are trying to make end of month quotas and are willing to sell to you slightly below their cost.
sarakay> I am concentrating on the out-the-door prices
Keep your eye on the bottom line including all taxes and fees comparing apples to apples and you will end up with a good deal. Double check everything.
Check out my post #4427 for a quote I received today. I think it's pretty good for an Ex V-6. Would like your opinion... thanks for any help you can provide.
Do you think a price of $21,926 for a EXL 4 cyl.(just add Tax and Tag) is good? Or $23,913 (Tax and Tag) for a EXL 6 cyl. is good?
Thanks for your help.
I bought my '04 Accord EX-L 4 AT sedan including destination and the PZEV hardware sold in California ($150 extra as shown on factory sticker) for the pre-tax, etc. price of $22,700. That price sounds high today, but was quite good last August within a week or 2 of introduction of the 2004 model. It stands to reason that, all else equal, the price should decline as the year progresses toward the "year-end clearance" time which is only 2 to 3 months from now.
I bought my Accord from the dealer in downtown San Francisco--one of the most expensive cities in which to buy anything--and still did pretty well at the time. Maybe I could have saved $100 buying the car from a dealer 50 miles away, but did well because I did plenty of research on the internet--especially at Edmunds. I told the dealer I'd done my homework on the net and the haggling stopped with a fair price offer. I haven't needed any service yet--the buying experience at S.F. Honda was quite good.
Finally, I think the V6 Accord does still use a timing belt, but the service manual doesn't call for a change for quite a few years and/or miles, so that might not be an issue for you.
Of course, the V6 must be a blast to drive--I didn't bother to test it because the 4 was plenty quick for me and anything faster would be a waste. I believe the invoice price of the V6 is $1887 more than the 4, so a dealer will try to get $2000 for the faster engine--you might be able to bring that price down a bit if the dealer is hungry enough.
I don't think traction control is all that necessary with the 4 on rainy streets because initial acceleration, while VERY responsive when you need it, is easy to modulate without wheel spinning. Performance on ice might be different--I don't know. Hope this helps........Richard
regards,
kyfdx
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Honda accord EX auto for
$19886 OTD
$20671 OTD(with honda care 5/100k with zero deductable)
Honda Accord LX auto for
$17886 OTD
$18671 OTD(with honda care 5/100k with zero deductable)
Can it be any better?
anhandrew
$22,895.00 - car including destination
$ 695.00 - Va tax
$ 27.84 - locality tax
$ 39.50 - title / license
$ 299.00 - processing fee
Price includes the following options:
* door edge guard
* wheel well guard
* mud guards
* pin stripes
* wheel locks
* cargo tray
$23,956.34 - Total Out The Door price
It sounds pretty good to me. Curious to see what users on this site think. Let me know ASAP...
Dan
If it is the car you want, you won't do much better....
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$17886 OTD
$18671 OTD(with honda care 5/100k with zero deductable)
Anhandrew: Can you tell us a little about this LX. That sounds like a very good price. Where are you located?
I just bought a 04 Coupe EX V6 w/o Nav. As for your offer, you can't do much better than that in VA. Go for it. See my earlier post if you want to know more about what some Northern VA dealers are charging.
Good luck!
Both the HA EX and LX are quoted with mudguards being the only option. The breakout price is
EX
19788 + 98 doc fee =19886 OTD
+ 785 (hondacare)= 20671 OTD
LX
17788 + 98 doc fee =17886 OTD
+ 785 (hondacare)= 18671 OTD
anhandrew
Thanks,
Andrew
Accord EX Sedan with Leather/XM/Nav
4 cyl engine
no dealer add-ons
Color: Graphite Pearl
PRICE: $23,468
I love this car, BTW!
The price includes ALL dealer fees. Does not include tax, but that is not relevant to you anyway as tax varies from place to place. By my calculations, this price is $686 below dealer invoice for this model and $38.62 above true dealer cost. I probably could've beaten another couple hundred out of the dealer, but this isn't a blood sport for me--I just wanted to know that I wasn't taken for a ride (no pun intended).
I emailed 7 dealers here in the area and my preferred dealer (where I did test drive, etc) matched the lowest price. I'm very happy with this price, but I've had better experience in the past by faxing my request to the fleet manager. I found that many "internet managers" are just regular salespeople in disguise and most of them started out WAY high. I knew most were high because of the experiences described in this forum. I bought a Toyota Sienna two years ago via a "fax attack" and the fleet managers started out at invoice or less.
As usual, the finance guy tried to sell me an extended warranty: bumper-to-bumper with no deductible for 6yrs/75K. Initial asking price was $1200. I told him that I've been lucky and never needed this before, and why did I buy a Honda anyway but for it's reliability. He pressed some more and I turned down again. He tried once more by telling me how he owns EXACTLY the same model I just bought and how the DVD NAV blew up and woulda cost $4,200 to fix. Yeah, right. So then I asked, "Do you have a quota on these warrantees? I'll buy it for $600." We settled on $652, which he claims is his "cost." Anyway, I got half off the ext warranty just by asking. He gets a good deal too as they get to park my $652 in an interest-bearing account for at least the next 3 years.
Bottom line: you should be able to deal on an Accord right now. Do your homework, read these posts, and you will save a bundle! Happy hunting!
The salesmen were not too pushy (Saturn was great--too bad their cars are so disappointing). Sales people wanted me to buy, of course, but I was firm in not being eager to make an immediate deal. Also, when it became clear that I didn't like certain aspects of a car, I was vocal in my criticism so the salesman knew I was not going to buy. Many sales people don't know how to handle objections and will give up if you're critical of their product.
Of the above cars I tested, the Honda Accord was clearly the best for me, but the 2003 Accord 4 cyl. didn't have side, curtain airbags which I thought might be available on the 2004s. This turned out to be the case and I bought the '04 EX-L a few weeks later--end of August '03.
I bought from a different and more convenient dealer than the one where I did my test driving--the test drives were at a group of dealers within a couple of blocks of one another, but farther from home.
Be sure to do your homework before you go there so you'll know a good deal if one is offered.
When you're ready to buy, tell the sales person that you've been using the internet and know what other careful shoppers are paying. The dealers know what internet prices are and you should be able to quickly cut through the silliness of sales people running to managers, etc.........Richard
danwashdc> $ 22,895.00 - Car including destination
danwashdc> $ 695.00 - Va Tax
danwashdc> $ 27.84 - Locality Tax
danwashdc> $ 39.50 - title / license
danwashdc> $ 299.00 - processing fee
danwashdc> $23,956.79 - Total "Out the door" price
danwashdc> ...free add-ons...Door Edge Guards, Wheel Guards,etc.
danwashdc> ...would like your opinion
Looks pretty good to me. The true dealer cost on this vehicle including destination charge is Invoice ($24,244) minus HoldBack($792.00) minus Incentives ($0) which equals $23,452.
So if you paid $23,194 (including dest and doc fees but not TT&L) then it appears that you have a dealer willing to sell you a vehicle below their cost by $358.00.
There are some area dealers that says they will beat any other dealers offer by $200 (I know of at least one in MD that did.) If you are really looking for a rockbottom price you might contact one of them to see if they will do that. They are limited to a $100 processing fee in MD and you do not pay the PWC locality tax either.
The accessories also are nice free additions to this deal. From the list of add-ons I'm guessing this offer is from the Woodbridge dealer as that is their usual type offer.
If that is the case then be prepared for a pitch to purchase pre-paid dealer service as well as extended waranty when you hit the F&I office. If you are possibly inclined to purchase an extended waranty, then I would get your best Internet pricing on that and ask them to match it. I don't have an opinion on the prepaid service plans.
Additionally, I would get the two year VA tags for your convenience which will be an additional $29.50 (assuming you plan to be living here for two years.) The dealers quote was for only one year as opposed to the two years that was included in your MD dealers quote.
beedublu> (phoning or just walking in and telling them that I'm
beedublu> only here to test drive)
Just call up any Honda dealer and ask for the Internet Department(don't get involved with the "regular" salesmen unless you want to play dealer games) and tell them you are considering the Accord and that you would like to come in for a test drive. I had no trouble doing that and these guys were never pushy afterward trying to get me to buy on the spot. If they tried I was prepared to tell them that I was also considering another car (insert choice: Camry, Altima, Passat) and that I would contact them if and when I was ready to buy the Honda.
I realize they are going to pitch the extended warranty stuff and the pre-paid dealer stuff on me but I'm not buying it. I stated that several times in my email correspondence with the Va dealer. I currently own a 1990 Integra that I purchased new and I have not had one single problem in the 15years I have owned that car so I don't see the need for an extended warranty. Thats why I am buying a Honda again. As far as pre-paid dealer stuff that's not an option for me since I plan to leave the DC area by the end of this year. Honestly if I could get the Va dealer to match the processing fee from Md I would just buy it from Hendrick and be on my way. I plan to do my test drive within the next 2 days and we'll see what happens.
Thanks very much for your many postings on this site. They have been extremely helpful guiding me through this process. I am completely sold on internet purchasing. I will let you know how I make out with my test drive. Thanks again.
Burt-Kuni Honda in the Tech Center on Arapahoe Road. This is where I bought, did all my test drives, etc. Very laid back and no-pressure but I was dealing with a new salesperson. Huge selection. They have several EX V6 Nav in stock including several that have been there a long time and they need to move.
Ralph-Schomp on Broadway in Littleton. If you are going to drive out here from Junction, I'd call them. Their schtick is that nobody is on commission, so they quote a price with all fees included. They promise no surprises. They will also hype their free extended warranty but that is good only if you service the vehicle there which obviously is no good for you. 2 other dealers in Denver had the same thing.
You will be in a vulnerable position because a dealer will know you don't want to drive back to Junction empty handed. So get several bids online or over the phone first. I'd call Schomp first--they'll give you a low price that you can use as a baseline for other dealers. Who knows--maybe with a low bid you can get your local dealer to match. I doubt the Junction dealer will want to lose a sale to Denver.
Burt-Kuni Honda in the Tech Center on Arapahoe Road. This is where I bought, did all my test drives, etc. Very laid back and no-pressure but I was dealing with a new salesperson. Huge selection. They have several EX V6 Nav in stock including several that have been there a long time and they need to move.
Ralph-Schomp on Broadway in Littleton. If you are going to drive out here from Junction, I'd call them. Their schtick is that nobody is on commission, so they quote a price with all fees included. They promise no surprises. They will also hype their free extended warranty but that is good only if you service the vehicle there which obviously is no good for you. 2 other dealers in Denver had the same thing.
You will be in a vulnerable position because a dealer will know you don't want to drive back to Junction empty handed. So get several bids online or over the phone first. I'd call Schomp first--they'll give you a low price that you can use as a baseline for other dealers. Who knows--maybe with a low bid you can get your local dealer to match. I doubt the Junction dealer will want to lose a sale to Denver.
$25,090.21(includes the following: destination/freight-$490.00, Dealer processing fee-$49.00 & protection pkg-front & rear mudguards, wheel locks & rear cargo tray & pin stripes) plus $752.71-3% Va sales tax & $100.00-2yr new Va tags(includes 60day Md temp tag) =
$25,942.92 on the road/out the door
What are good sites to get pricing on extended warranties? Anyone have any thoughts on the extended warranties which are refunded at end of term if not used?
thanks
Thanks for your help everyone. If we buy soon we'll post.
I'm asking the question here because (and I maybe mistaken), my experience has shown the EX 4cyl w/Nav to run about the same as the EX V6 w/o Nav in terms of costs.
Any experiences where a dealer may be willing to budge more on one model vs the others (EX V-6 w/Nav vs EX 4cyl w/Nav vs EX V-6 w/o Nav)?
Thanks in advance for your help!!!
if given choice between 6 cylinder without nav or 4 cylinder with nav, for us it was better to do the 4 cylinder-- better gas mileage and plenty of get up and go-- and the navigation screen works nice with the XM radio as well.... plus the navigation has come in handy ...
Purchased several acces. for ~50% off list installed and an extended warr. for ~45% off list.
All in all a good deal and no BS from the sales person or his managers. Very willing to cut to the bottom line; clearly wanting to move inventory. I got some push back on the extended service contract pricing but held firm and did not agree to the car until it was reduced in price to where I wanted it.
2004 EX, 4 door, 4 cyl, AT, side curtain airbags, w/out nav.
MSRP: $23,440
Invoice: $21,143
My Price: $20,388
Out the Door Price: $22,109.39 (tax 7.25%)
He did say this included a holdback.
The Edmunds TMV price is $21,535.
Sound like a good deal? It looks like it is to me, but I would appreciate any feedback...
Thanks.