Im guessing your mpg will come up? Well, its nice to know how far you are in your trial, i cant wait to see your results. I plan on doing my trial run in a couple of days. Since i usually do about 14.3 miles each day excluding weekends (will not be driving weekends), i think/hope i wont skew my calculations. I will try only two applications of this with Shell regular. First,i will put in about 3 ounces to a 15 gallon tank for "warmups". On my second application, i will put another exact 3 ounces to my tank and measure throughout the whole process. With Shell regular alone, i usually get about 17.9 mpg. Im really skeptical about this, after this experiment is over whether if it increases my mpg or not, i will never do an experiment like this to my new truck :sick: .
I have a quick question, should i put this stuff near empty tank or full tank? Since shipo is doing near empty, i think i should do near empty also? Any requests for me to do near empty or in full tank??
I didn't really add the Acetone to my near empty tank for any particular reason, after all, the first time around is I knew I needed to add enough for the full 18 gallons, regardless of whether it was before the fill-up or after.
Tomorrow when I get my next tank (and for each tank thereafter), I will wait until the tank is full so that I can see how much gas I added and then adjust the amount of Acetone accordingly.
Judging by the gas gauge I'm guessing that I'll need to visit the Shell station on the way to work as waiting until my homeward bound trip will be cutting things a little thin, I think. Anyway, it looks like I'll be posting my first tank results sometime tomorrow. ;-)
Mother Nature is threatening to give us a pretty good hit for the morning commute, something that isn't normally conducive to good fuel economy. As such, I decided to fill-up tonight thus salvaging the testing that I've done so far (at the possible expense of having to eliminate the next tank due to this weather event).
What I was expecting:
Given the unusually light nature of the traffic that I've dealt with this week coupled with the extra run down the Interstate last night, I would have expected that this last tank would have come in between 22.5 and 23.0 mpg with 100% Regular gas.
Expectations were further raised by comments like, "Most people who follow these steps well will usually achieve about 15% mpg improvements, but common improvements range from 15% to 35%." Okay, given my baseline of 22.5 mpg, a 15% bump would have yielded 25.875 mpg, and a 35% bump would have yielded 30.375 mpg. Geez, those numbers sound awfully good for a 1998 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan, almost too good to be true.
What I got:
So, cutting to the chase, what happened? According to my trip computer I got 21.2 mpg. 21.2??? What's up with that? Answer: Nothing. In fact that's a reduction in mileage of almost 6%. A rather inauspicious beginning to this grand test if I might be so bold.
What were the numbers:
Mileage (Start/Finish): 102,808 / 103,102 Total Miles Driven (OBC): 294.3 Elapse Time (OBC): 6:43 Average MPH (calc): 43.82 mph Gallons of Fuel Used: 14.883 Miles Per Gallon (OBC): 21.2 Miles Per Gallon (calc): 19.77
So, am I ready to abandon this test already? Nope. I've decided that I'll stick it out through 2 tanks at a 10 Gallon to 2 ounce ratio, 2 tanks at a 10 gallon to 2.5 ounce ratio, and 2 tanks at a 10 gallon to 3 ounce ratio all on Shell (TopTier) Regular. I will then switch to ExxonMobil (not a participant of the TopTier program but claim to be compliant none-the-less) for another 3 tanks (one to serve as a transition tank), still at the 10 gallon to 3 ounce ratio.
If during any given tank I encounter a weather or traffic event that will negatively affect the mileage, I will eliminate the results from said tank and re-do the next tank with the same fuel to Acetone ratio. This should keep the results from tank to tank as close as possible to identical conditions.
By the time I've completed all seven tank tests (plus a likely two or three that I'll have to scrub), I should still have over a half of a gallon of Acetone left over. Will I continue to use it? Well, I suppose that depends upon whether my mileage manages to work itself up over the 26 mpg threshold. If not, then the hassle of messing around with this nasty stuff simply ain't worth it.
Very interesting indeed. Thanks for your effort Shipo. Now since you mention decrease in mpg, i feel like i shouldnt do this test anymore haha. But oh well, I guess i will begin conducting this experiment today as a matter of fact. For good measures, i just changed my oil/filter and ran my tank all the way down to near empty. I just refueled w/ Shell regular. I will briefly doing this for only two tanks w/ the acetone, so i dont know if it'll be significant or not. Actually, my first tank will be with only shell regular to remeasure my mpg just to see if it is within my average range in mpg. Second tank of gas, with the acetone. Third tank, acetone again.
I will still follow my normal routine in driving in the city. So, this experiment may take awhile yet.
If acetone actually improved fuel economy or did anything beneficial, it would have been part of a patented additive package. If there was a difference between Chevron and Shell, for example, the engineers and scientists at the deficient company would deformulate or simply use GC-MS to identify the acetone peak. After 17 years (the lifetime of a patent), all fuel packages would then be using acetone and the additive packages would be equivalent. My understanding is that the organic polymer seals can actually get damaged from excessive acetone concentrations. Please write this one in to "Mythbusters" to get this ridiculous myth put to rest.
You're preaching to the choir my friend. If you look back through the posts you will see that I too am a non-believer. "So why then" you ask, "are you doing this ridiculous experiment?"
Well, several reasons: 1) If I take a specific stand on an issue and am proven wrong, then I've learned something. I like learning new things, especially when they are contrary to the conventional wisdom. 2) If I take a specific stand against an issue and cannot show any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise to support my case, then I expose myself to claims that I'm not open to new ideas. 3) I've accused those who sing the praises of Acetone of being "overly optimistic" in their claims of like for like tests showing the benefits of using Acetone in their fuel. Unfortunately, unless I attempt this experiment as well, my comments refuting their claims don't carry any weight. 4) I happen to be in a situation where I have very little to loose by trying this experiment, after all, my car is old and I'm currently shopping for a new one. Even if I wind up keeping it, the fact remains that I'm going to burn about 120 gallons of gasoline and only about a quart of Acetone over the next six or seven weeks. I don't think that short term exposure is going to have much of a negative effect.
Actually when I did research on the acetone business I found a website where someone took a poll of experimenters....and while some reported gains, an equal number reported no gain and some reported a loss in fuel mileage.
Such a wild spread of results certainly points to either one of two things:
1. The experimenters were not conducting the test properly.
2. The "placebo effect" is as alive and well in automobile ownership as it is in medical practice.
I actually agree with you that the acetone can damage critical parts of an engine.
Im just doing this experiment for the heck of it, not trying to prove anything; well just to see if it increases my mpg by 25-35% or not. Im using my beater car anyways.
By no means, i will EVER tell someone to use this stuff in their tanks. I would advice people that they should use only the good quality gas at the many gas stations around and not try to push for increases in mpg by using non-scientific proven stuff. Better safe than sorry i guess.
I agree placebo effect is in many of those experiments.
Man, talking and messing with acetone is getting irritating but ill do this little experiment because im half-committed already. Well, i started today with just my regular tank of shell regular up to 15.4 gallons. After this, ill put in 3 oz of "acid-tone" to my second full tank. Then another 3 oz. This may take me awhile to complete, so hopefully by the time im done, we're on to discuss better, newer things :P . If by any chance, my car gets sold to someone during this month (whoever wants to buy my car, stay away!! haha), then i guess i have to abort the mission.
On my Accord, my average driving miles per weekday should be around 14.3 miles: everyday i drive to my university, work, and then back home. The route that i take to do this everyday is virtually routine for me. So, there should be no highway or stuck in traffic factors. My average mpg should be 17.9 for one full tank. My tank usuallly holds 15 gallons. I guess ill see how it goes and check in occasionally.
where are those adamant supporters of acetone now? I half-expected some sort of reply to shipo's results. I've already got a few excuses in mind they could and might use, but don't want to spill them and give any ideas.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think that they're waiting for my next tank to come in (probably Wednesday), hoping that the numbers will come up. Unfortunately a quick peek at the Trip Computer this morning as I was pulling into the office parking lot suggests, if anything, that the next round of numbers will be worse.
This is turning into a painful test, but I'm going to stick it out a little longer.
they said it would take a few tanks ... maybe even they said the first one or 2 could be lower than normal? Kinda sounds familiar to me. But, then again, when I first read that (if i read that), i seem to remember thinking "likely excuse."
I mean, if the idea is that it affects the way the gas acts, and not the way the car uses the gas, then why should tank 5 be any different than tank 1?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I too do not understand the logic of waiting several tanks for the effects to kick in, however, I believe that (like you) I read that as well. The only possible argument that I can think of is that it was recommended to start at two ounces per ten gallons of fuel, and then work your way up to two and a half ounces per ten gallons and then up to three ounces.
While I don't buy the arguments, and can find no logic or science to support such recommendations, I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong. Stay tuned.
Im just sticking to 3 oz throughout my whole experiment to eliminate any advantages/disadvantages factors. Almost done with my regular tank of shell, mpg appears to be around average. So, Im getting close to getting my first tankful with the acetone. Tune in later.
well, come on, we all know a frown weighs more than a smile, therefore resulting in worse gas mileage because of the extra weight the naysayers have to cart around.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
First off, this tank was driven in conditions that were more similar to what I would consider my established norm (as evidenced by the drop in my average MPH), with said traffic being maybe a little on the heavy side.
Geez, really stingy numbers. Well, i just started on my full tank with the acetone today. Will post when done with my tank. It also looks like that i may have potential buyers. I may have to abort my mission soon but hopefully get my only tank with acetone out of the way and record what i got. Still doing the same routine as before. Nothing out the ordinary so i still believe im doing this the best i can to my limited resources. Also, I have a helper who is helping me out with this trial. My helper's field is in chemical engineering which is a plus i guess
.....research on fuel addititves, but I've never used an oil additive that was anything but a filter clogger. The only product I've even read about doing anything was Auto RX and even that product did nothing for me. Some may feel otherwise, but I think they're all just a waste of money.
For some reason there's a number of people that are in favor of the Auto RX. It suppose to fix sludge problems and allow people to switch over to synthetic anytime after the use of it. I haven't seen or hear alot of people talk about it here much. I will look into it though and try to get my friend to do it on his 95 honda civic.
What is AutoRX supposed to do? I use Rislone in the quart container when I want to clean oil area of motor. I do half a quart added, drive less than 400 miles and drain oil. And replace with new oil and filter.
im skeptical about it because in my opinion, its similar to just using a synthetic oil, but im willing to test it out on an old engine that my friend has.
I like the filter shots. They need a little more controlled experiment method of showing the product's ability to liquify sludge or contaminants and have them caught in the filter.
IMO this is better than the typical mousemilk over the counter product sold at all the stores.
I believe modern oils have a lot of cleaners and frequent oil changes may do more to remove the shellacs and sludge than some additives. The Rislone I like seems to be just a 5 weight oil with an SJ or whatever is the most recent oil rating addition package. In the past decades the Rislone had a lot more cleaners than the then current oils, so it has essentially been equaled by current oils. For $1.99 a quart I'll use it at a low level to keep my 03 cleaner a couple times a year. I'll use it in my 98 too-but at 1/2 dose just before oil changes.
This tank was driven in relatively light traffic (I think lots of folks have taken some extra days off for the holidays as my commute has experienced much lighter traffic than normal). So far, the only trends that I see developing are the consistency of the calculated MPG numbers and the discrepancy between the MPG as calculated by the OBC and my calculated MPG (which in theory should be less consistent given the vagaries of how/when different pumps will click off when nearing full). The last time I compared the two was in 1998 or 1999 and back then the two were always within two tenths or so. This discrepancy of course just generates more questions:
Has my OBC failed in some manner? If so, why were my pre-Acetone Test mileage numbers so consistent? Is the Acetone causing the OBC to calculate incorrectly? Am I due for a correction in an upcoming tank? (unlikely at this point) Will OBC and calculated MPGs return to similar numbers after the Acetone Test is over? Could it be that the OBC and calculated MPG numbers might get further apart when the Acetone Test is over, thus implying that the Acetone did in fact improve my economy?
Do the onboard computers calculate average fuel mileage over the entire miles since a reset or do they computer only the last 25, 50, 100 miles?
Someone posted that they limit how many miles back they use, which causes the discrepancy between the calculated reading and the one from the OBC. I wonder if the posted confused the range calculation for fuel left in the tank. I believe my car used the last 25 miles to calculate how far you can go before refueling.
Hmmm, interesting thought. That having been said, I've seen no evidence of that for this car (or any car that I've had for that matter). The reason that I feel that way is that regardless of whether I start out a tank driving a high MPG scenario and finish with a low MPG scenario or the reverse, the longer it has been since I reset the OBC, the harder it is for any given driving type over any given distance to affect the Avg. MPG display. As for the Distance To Empty (DTE), yeah, I'd buy the "last 25 miles" or so argument, and while I've never paid attention to that, it does make sense.
....in my Tercel in hopes that it would slow or stop an oil consumption problem. I didn't. I've been told by others that my engine is a lot cleaner now. Who knows.
Almost done with my experiment I should be able to post up numbers by tomorrow! Just in time because i have buyers to buy my car asap. All i can say is that thank goodness i dont have to do this ever again. My advice for right now... dont try acetone, its not worth the trouble and time.
Here is my result with the 3 oz of acetone during my only tank with shell regular.
My usual mpg was at 17.9 with shell regular before this test took place. I drove about 18.4 miles routinely per day this month. My tank holds approximately 15.8 gallons. I did had a helper to take down notes every time this was going on. He is a really good friend that is into chemical engineering and has nothing better to do than to be doing this for fun!
Odometer reading before starting experiment = 126,251 miles 1st tank with only shell regular just to see if within range of avg mpg = 18.1 total miles driven = 288.3 estimated avg. speed was at 43.2 mph tank = 15.785 gallons
2nd tank with shell regular and exactly 3 oz. of 100% acetone. avg mpg = 17.7 :confuse: total miles driven = 281.2 estimated avg. speed was at 42.4 mph tank = 15.865 gallons
My driving style was very routine.. went through the same streets, stops, etc. every day for this experiment.
I must say it's been really fun doing this and trying to do WOTs on my new truck. Even though i saw that there was no mpg improvement with my Accord, i cant blame my driving style.. if there's something to blame it could be the excessive idling or stop and goes during the trial runs. i could do this trial in the highway but i decided to do this on the streets because i do about 85% city driving in a month. Rarely any highway driving for me. Only my truck gets highway because i need the extra speed limit to do WOTs.
plus i was obsessive with my tire pressure.. always was at 37 psi. Warm-up time was 30 sec. each time and drove gently (1k-2k rpm) for about 15 min. and then drove normally. Usually when i try to speed up, it was always under 3k rpm. Well, thats about it for me. Accord is getting bought!
So, as I was going to hit the OBC "Step" button last night so that I could record my results, I fat fingered it and hit the "Reset" button. :-/ As such, I don't have the usual OBC numbers.
I'm now into the 3.0 oz to 10 gallons of gasoline phase. If I don't show much improvement after this tank, I'm most likely going to switch to ExxonMobile a tank or two early and see if that fuel has any effect. I'm not too optimistic, and at this point, I'm looking forward to the test being over as I HATE messing with the Acetone.
well, I initially got 20.5 mpg with nothing but med test gas. Shell, I believe, owns the Go Mart, and I try to buy gas from the same pump but it isn't always possible. My first tank with 2 oz acetone in 10 gallons of gas got me 24.9, as calculated by TI. (no good in my head, even tho it was clear that 10 gallons even, would be much easier than some calculations will be. I can't always get 10 gallons in it,and I can't stop myself from getting gas once it hits 1/4 tank. some habits are just too hard to break.
Next tank was back down to 21.8, so I had lost the increase, or most of it. HOWEVER, THat was during a cold snap, and I warmed the car up several times for 10-15 minutes. Idling = 0 MPG. hehe Nest tank was 24.7, and almost back up to the 2nd tank hi number. This tank was was real easy. It took exactly 10 gallons, and went 248 miles, so it is 24.8 mpg. No idling this round. But longer trips to the city.
Anyway, The 3rd tank of gas and acetone, about the middle, the engine/drivetrain started whining, which was rpm related and noiser the faster I went. Scared me, as it never made that noise before.
I bo't a can of Seafoam, which I use in my motorcycle to clear out water, and to lubricate upper engine parts. The whining stopped immediately!!! I have to believe it was a lubrication problem. Not enough of it to counteract the cleaning effect of the acetone, is what it felt like. NOW THIS IS A PERSONAL OBSERVATION, so I don't expect anyone to go along with it. You weren't here, so the sound means nothing to you. I added 2 ounces of seafoam, midtank, which kept the whineys away for the rest of the tank. MGP increase during this tank was not much, even tho seafoam helps my motorcycles gas mileage...
Anyway, Seafoam is expensive, and I can't be adding it to every tank, or it will play havoc with my money figures...
What I can do, for right now, is try a couple ounces(however much acetone I put in, I will use the same amount of Marvel Mystery Oil, or whatever I use,,, to keep the whining away, and see how the mpg goes...
MMO is a real old time remedy, and its only a couple bucks for 18 or 20 oz. SO, that only adds a tiny bit to the acetone cost.. I could live with that. I really go the coleman route, or PIB route, or any of those other ideas I have read about. I NEED TO keep this simple, or I won't do it... It can't be expensive or I won't be able to buy the additional ingredients, OR it would make the mPG prohibitive to maintain. I might do it anyway just to screw the oil companies, and the government. That IS collusion, that you can NEVER do anything about...
So, wish me luck, and I'll report the findings as I get them.
I did not see what caused Hiroller to feel that acetone wasn't worth it, except he got no results. Thats what this is all about. Not everyone will get results!! And if you use too much, you sure as hell won't get good result.....
I know of at least 2 other NG's that keep this topic going, yahoo has a mpg something, and THe discovery show has a consumer blog type thing that does the same. They want the two myth busters to test this out, but havne't had any luck so far... hehehe
Im so skeptical of aftermarket fuel products. I believe it has to do mostly with placebo effects. I tried various products regarding to fuel cleaners etc. and none work in my opinion. Only one i know of is that of the BG can i used (i got it at the dealership) for my old accord. With the auto-rx treatment, i believe it swells the seals up if im not mistaken. I think there's some adverse effects to this method. Correct me if im wrong and please speculate!
I'm not sure about Auto-Rx. I didn't know what seafoam is alleged to do. I do know the Marvel Mystery oil is a mystery as to why it would be a top cylinder lube and why you would need it. It's owned by Turtle Wax now, which lowers its credibility in my own opinion. It used to be a valve guide lube for intake and uppere cylinder lube. But I suspect it's content is more just a money lube to move money from your pocket to the company's pocket.
The only gasoline additive I've personally felt was good is Techron by Chevron. It's the chemicals that were used in their gasoline as additives. I can hear a change in the motor after I've driven a short time when I put it in -- about twice a year. I buy it at Advanced Auto or Meijers department store here in Midwest. Others have talked about BK444 or some name like that as a gasoline cleaner.
I've used Rislone in the oil a few hundred miles before a change just to help clean out gunk and keep it suspended. Anymore the oils have such good additives that just doing an early oil change has the same cleaning effect.
Yeah, sort of. The following is a repost of something I put on the Synthetic Oil discussion a couple of days ago:
Running Mobil 1 at 104,000 miles...
Hey gang, just to underscore what has been said fairly often here about just how clean synthetic oil keeps the innards of an engine, I posted a couple of pictures on my Yahoo! photo album. These two pictures (actually one photo that has a small section copied out for easier viewing) are of the valve cover oil filler hole and the rocker arm below of our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan with the 3.8 liter mill. I don't recall exactly when I converted it over to synthetic oil, but it was most certainly before the 20,000 mile mark and has had nothing but Mobil 1 (in various weights and formulations) since. Also, I have been less than religious about my OCIs, which have ranged from the factory recommendation of 7,500 miles to well over 12,000 miles in a couple of cases.
Once in my album, click on "Caravan Stuff" and then click on the last photo DGC3.8-104K.jpg for the detail view of the rocker arm assembly. Interestingly enough, it has been about 4,000 miles since I changed the oil and as can clearly be seen in the small pool of oil in the rocker arm, the oil is still almost as clear as the day I poured it in.
Ive seen it shipo, looks nice. That is why i am converting to synthetic oil in my next oci. I believe a clean engine can help maintain a good mpg. A bad engine contributes to a load of mpg losses, that's why people resort to fuel cleaners, mpg improver methods, etc. But yeah... synthetic is the way to go dudes. Or, if have to stick with dino, then change it 2000 miles...
Traffic and curiosity lead me to drive this tank like I was a little old lady, in an attempt to see if I could get back to my pre-Acetone 22.5 OBC readings. Nope. Even with using every fuel conserving trick I know (not how I normally drive mind you), I still only got the OBC display back to my best reading since my first Acetone tank. That having been said, I did get the best calculated mileage of any tank while on this test. It will be interesting to see how I do when I start using ExxonMobil fuel next week and then again once I stop using Acetone all together.
Hmmm, interesting idea. After my current/last tank of Shell Regular, I'm inclined to go two tanks of ExxonMobil Regular with a 3.0 oz to 10 gallon ratio. It makes sense to me that I should then go to say the ExxonMobil Premium (93 Octane around here) for a tank with the same acetone ratio, and then another tank of Premium without the acetone.
Given that my engine has a relatively mild compression ratio my bet is that my mileage will drop somewhat with the Premium, however, given the range of my results so far, that would be hard to prove.
"I'd wager your fuel mileage would go up about .5 to 1 mpg with premium/no acetone."
Really? Why?
I'm thinking that running the Premium in my car may negatively affect combustion even more than the Acetone. Of course the Acetine/Premium mix is the formula that I'm suspecting would be capable of the worst mileage of this test.
My local paper publishes twice a week a short article written by Click and Clack, the carguys that also do a PBS show.
Last article was about acetone in gas, which appears to be the latest internet rumor.
Their response was that it does nothing in improving fuel efficiency and even worse can attack rubber components in your fuel system as it is a very strong solvent.
This is just as I suspected is the case. I suggest you who are experimenting should probably stop now or risk disolving any o-rings, gaskets or other components.
Grrr, last Saturday Mrs. Shipo decided to do me a favor by taking the kids out to breakfast and while out having my test vehicle washed and gassed. Not realizing that I was running this test, she obviously didn't bother to record the particulars, or for that matter add any acetone. :-/ As such I'm reporting two tanks at once, one with 3.0 ounces per 10 gallons of gas and one with some diluted amount acetone left over.
As if that wasn't bad enough, this morning the regular routine was more than a little hosed up causing me to be unable to fit the post-fill-up adding of the acetone step into my available time. I did however take Mr. Shifty's suggestion and fill with Premium fuel. This should be interesting.
Given my underwhelming results so far (which isn't anything of a surprise) with the acetone, I'm most likely going to end the test here and leave it go at that. I will however report on how my Premium vs. Regular comparisons go for the next few tanks.
if you go back and read the discussion here on acetone, you'll see we've already covered all the details regarding fuel system components, etc. So anyone here doing the test now (shipo) is doing so knowing full well the potential hazards.
Just wanted you to know in case you think your warnings are going unnoticed ... its not that, its just that we've already covered them.
All I can say is, i'm glad i'm not testing it on my car. I've got enough problems to deal with on it right now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As I mentioned last time, tank 8 was run on Mobil Premium, and as many of you know from my previous posts, it is my stated position that engines designed to run on Regular gasoline (such as mine) will suffer a decline in both power and fuel economy when Premium fuel (93 Octane in this case) is used. While this tank delivered the highest fuel economy of this test, it still fell 1 mpg short of my pre-test benchmark of 22.5 mpg (per the OBC). I attribute the increase in mileage to the fact that this is my first full Acetone free tank since the test began, and I fully expect my current tank of Mobil Regular to return to my pre-test range of results (22.5 plus or minus 0.2 mpg). I'm figuring that Friday evening will be my next stop at a Mobil gas pump, it should be interesting.
Thanks! Funny thing though, I'm actually looking for a reason to dump it and get a new Audi A3. Unfortunately even after 105,000 miles this thing has only cost me about $200 in unscheduled maintenance and is only using about a quart of (Mobil 1 5W-30) oil every 7,500 miles. :-/
Comments
Since i usually do about 14.3 miles each day excluding weekends (will not be driving weekends), i think/hope i wont skew my calculations. I will try only two applications of this with Shell regular. First,i will put in about 3 ounces to a 15 gallon tank for "warmups". On my second application, i will put another exact 3 ounces to my tank and measure throughout the whole process. With Shell regular alone, i usually get about 17.9 mpg. Im really skeptical about this, after this experiment is over whether if it increases my mpg or not, i will never do an experiment like this to my new truck :sick: .
I have a quick question, should i put this stuff near empty tank or full tank? Since shipo is doing near empty, i think i should do near empty also? Any requests for me to do near empty or in full tank??
High
Tomorrow when I get my next tank (and for each tank thereafter), I will wait until the tank is full so that I can see how much gas I added and then adjust the amount of Acetone accordingly.
Judging by the gas gauge I'm guessing that I'll need to visit the Shell station on the way to work as waiting until my homeward bound trip will be cutting things a little thin, I think. Anyway, it looks like I'll be posting my first tank results sometime tomorrow. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
What I was expecting:
Given the unusually light nature of the traffic that I've dealt with this week coupled with the extra run down the Interstate last night, I would have expected that this last tank would have come in between 22.5 and 23.0 mpg with 100% Regular gas.
Expectations were further raised by comments like, "Most people who follow these steps well will usually achieve about 15% mpg improvements, but common improvements range from 15% to 35%." Okay, given my baseline of 22.5 mpg, a 15% bump would have yielded 25.875 mpg, and a 35% bump would have yielded 30.375 mpg. Geez, those numbers sound awfully good for a 1998 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan, almost too good to be true.
What I got:
So, cutting to the chase, what happened? According to my trip computer I got 21.2 mpg. 21.2??? What's up with that? Answer: Nothing. In fact that's a reduction in mileage of almost 6%. A rather inauspicious beginning to this grand test if I might be so bold.
What were the numbers:
Mileage (Start/Finish): 102,808 / 103,102
Total Miles Driven (OBC): 294.3
Elapse Time (OBC): 6:43
Average MPH (calc): 43.82 mph
Gallons of Fuel Used: 14.883
Miles Per Gallon (OBC): 21.2
Miles Per Gallon (calc): 19.77
So, am I ready to abandon this test already? Nope. I've decided that I'll stick it out through 2 tanks at a 10 Gallon to 2 ounce ratio, 2 tanks at a 10 gallon to 2.5 ounce ratio, and 2 tanks at a 10 gallon to 3 ounce ratio all on Shell (TopTier) Regular. I will then switch to ExxonMobil (not a participant of the TopTier program but claim to be compliant none-the-less) for another 3 tanks (one to serve as a transition tank), still at the 10 gallon to 3 ounce ratio.
If during any given tank I encounter a weather or traffic event that will negatively affect the mileage, I will eliminate the results from said tank and re-do the next tank with the same fuel to Acetone ratio. This should keep the results from tank to tank as close as possible to identical conditions.
By the time I've completed all seven tank tests (plus a likely two or three that I'll have to scrub), I should still have over a half of a gallon of Acetone left over. Will I continue to use it? Well, I suppose that depends upon whether my mileage manages to work itself up over the 26 mpg threshold. If not, then the hassle of messing around with this nasty stuff simply ain't worth it.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I will still follow my normal routine in driving in the city. So, this experiment may take awhile yet.
High
Well, several reasons:
1) If I take a specific stand on an issue and am proven wrong, then I've learned something. I like learning new things, especially when they are contrary to the conventional wisdom.
2) If I take a specific stand against an issue and cannot show any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise to support my case, then I expose myself to claims that I'm not open to new ideas.
3) I've accused those who sing the praises of Acetone of being "overly optimistic" in their claims of like for like tests showing the benefits of using Acetone in their fuel. Unfortunately, unless I attempt this experiment as well, my comments refuting their claims don't carry any weight.
4) I happen to be in a situation where I have very little to loose by trying this experiment, after all, my car is old and I'm currently shopping for a new one. Even if I wind up keeping it, the fact remains that I'm going to burn about 120 gallons of gasoline and only about a quart of Acetone over the next six or seven weeks. I don't think that short term exposure is going to have much of a negative effect.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Such a wild spread of results certainly points to either one of two things:
1. The experimenters were not conducting the test properly.
2. The "placebo effect" is as alive and well in automobile ownership as it is in medical practice.
Im just doing this experiment for the heck of it, not trying to prove anything; well just to see if it increases my mpg by 25-35% or not. Im using my beater car anyways.
By no means, i will EVER tell someone to use this stuff in their tanks. I would advice people that they should use only the good quality gas at the many gas stations around and not try to push for increases in mpg by using non-scientific proven stuff. Better safe than sorry i guess.
I agree placebo effect is in many of those experiments.
High
On my Accord, my average driving miles per weekday should be around 14.3 miles: everyday i drive to my university, work, and then back home. The route that i take to do this everyday is virtually routine for me. So, there should be no highway or stuck in traffic factors. My average mpg should be 17.9 for one full tank. My tank usuallly holds 15 gallons. I guess ill see how it goes and check in occasionally.
High
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
This is turning into a painful test, but I'm going to stick it out a little longer.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I mean, if the idea is that it affects the way the gas acts, and not the way the car uses the gas, then why should tank 5 be any different than tank 1?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
While I don't buy the arguments, and can find no logic or science to support such recommendations, I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong. Stay tuned.
Best Regards,
Shipo
High
well, come on, we all know a frown weighs more than a smile, therefore resulting in worse gas mileage because of the extra weight the naysayers have to cart around.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Tank --- Mileage ----- Net ------ E/T --- MPH --- Gallons --- Acetone --- MPG (OBC) --- MPG (calc)
Start ---- 102,808
Tank1 -- 103,102 --- 294.3 --- 6:43 --- 43.82 --- 14.883 ---- 2.0 oz --------- 21.2 ------------- 19.77
Tank2 -- 103,444 --- 341.3 --- 9:36 --- 35.55 --- 17.727 ---- 2.0 oz --------- 19.7 ------------- 19.25
Best Regards,
Shipo
Will post later.
High
High
What is AutoRX supposed to do? I use Rislone in the quart container when I want to clean oil area of motor. I do half a quart added, drive less than 400 miles and drain oil. And replace with new oil and filter.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.auto-rx.com/
im skeptical about it because in my opinion, its similar to just using a synthetic oil, but im willing to test it out on an old engine that my friend has.
high
IMO this is better than the typical mousemilk over the counter product sold at all the stores.
I believe modern oils have a lot of cleaners and frequent oil changes may do more to remove the shellacs and sludge than some additives. The Rislone I like seems to be just a 5 weight oil with an SJ or whatever is the most recent oil rating addition package. In the past decades the Rislone had a lot more cleaners than the then current oils, so it has essentially been equaled by current oils. For $1.99 a quart I'll use it at a low level to keep my 03 cleaner a couple times a year. I'll use it in my 98 too-but at 1/2 dose just before oil changes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
High *happy holidays*
Has my OBC failed in some manner? If so, why were my pre-Acetone Test mileage numbers so consistent?
Is the Acetone causing the OBC to calculate incorrectly?
Am I due for a correction in an upcoming tank? (unlikely at this point)
Will OBC and calculated MPGs return to similar numbers after the Acetone Test is over?
Could it be that the OBC and calculated MPG numbers might get further apart when the Acetone Test is over, thus implying that the Acetone did in fact improve my economy?
The numbers for tank 3:
------------- Total --------- Net --------------- AVG ------------------ Acetone --- MPG --- MPG ---- Fuel
Tank --- Mileage ----- Miles --- E/T ---- MPH --- Gallons --- per 10g ---- OBC --- Calc ---- Brand
Start ---- 102,808
Tank1 -- 103,102 --- 294.3 --- 6:43 --- 43.82 --- 14.883 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 19.77 --- Shell
Tank2 -- 103,444 --- 341.3 --- 9:36 --- 35.55 --- 17.727 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 19.7 --- 19.25 --- Shell
Tank3 -- 103,765 --- 321.6 --- 7:45 --- 41.50 --- 16.206 ---- 2.5 oz ------ 20.8 --- 19.84 --- Shell
As usual, stay tuned. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Someone posted that they limit how many miles back they use, which causes the discrepancy between the calculated reading and the one from the OBC. I wonder if the posted confused the range calculation for fuel left in the tank. I believe my car used the last 25 miles to calculate how far you can go before refueling.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Best Regards,
Shipo
high
My usual mpg was at 17.9 with shell regular before this test took place. I drove about 18.4 miles routinely per day this month. My tank holds approximately 15.8 gallons. I did had a helper to take down notes every time this was going on. He is a really good friend that is into chemical engineering and has nothing better to do than to be doing this for fun!
Odometer reading before starting experiment = 126,251 miles
1st tank with only shell regular just to see if within range of avg mpg = 18.1
total miles driven = 288.3
estimated avg. speed was at 43.2 mph
tank = 15.785 gallons
2nd tank with shell regular and exactly 3 oz. of 100% acetone. avg mpg = 17.7 :confuse:
total miles driven = 281.2
estimated avg. speed was at 42.4 mph
tank = 15.865 gallons
My driving style was very routine.. went through the same streets, stops, etc. every day for this experiment.
I must say it's been really fun doing this and trying to do WOTs on my new truck. Even though i saw that there was no mpg improvement with my Accord, i cant blame my driving style.. if there's something to blame it could be the excessive idling or stop and goes during the trial runs. i could do this trial in the highway but i decided to do this on the streets because i do about 85% city driving in a month. Rarely any highway driving for me. Only my truck gets highway because i need the extra speed limit to do WOTs.
plus i was obsessive with my tire pressure.. always was at 37 psi. Warm-up time was 30 sec. each time and drove gently (1k-2k rpm) for about 15 min. and then drove normally. Usually when i try to speed up, it was always under 3k rpm. Well, thats about it for me. Accord is getting bought!
High
------------- Total --------- Net --------------- AVG ------------------ Acetone --- MPG --- MPG ---- Fuel
Tank ---- Mileage ---- Miles --- E/T ---- MPH --- Gallons --- per 10g ---- OBC --- Calc ---- Brand
Start ---- 102,808
Tank1 -- 103,102 --- 294.3 --- 6:43 --- 43.82 --- 14.883 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 19.77 --- Shell
Tank2 -- 103,444 --- 341.3 --- 9:36 --- 35.55 --- 17.727 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 19.7 --- 19.25 --- Shell
Tank3 -- 103,765 --- 321.6 --- 7:45 --- 41.50 --- 16.206 ---- 2.5 oz ------ 20.8 --- 19.84 --- Shell
Tank4 -- 104,109 --- 344.6 --- ?:?? --- ??.?? --- 17.907 ---- 2.5 oz ------ ??.? --- 19.24 --- Shell
I'm now into the 3.0 oz to 10 gallons of gasoline phase. If I don't show much improvement after this tank, I'm most likely going to switch to ExxonMobile a tank or two early and see if that fuel has any effect. I'm not too optimistic, and at this point, I'm looking forward to the test being over as I HATE messing with the Acetone.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Next tank was back down to 21.8, so I had lost the increase, or most of it. HOWEVER, THat was during a cold snap, and I warmed the car up several times for 10-15 minutes. Idling = 0 MPG. hehe
Nest tank was 24.7, and almost back up to the 2nd tank hi number.
This tank was was real easy. It took exactly 10 gallons, and went 248 miles, so it is 24.8 mpg. No idling this round. But longer trips to the city.
Anyway, The 3rd tank of gas and acetone, about the middle, the engine/drivetrain started whining, which was rpm related and noiser the faster I went. Scared me, as it never made that noise before.
I bo't a can of Seafoam, which I use in my motorcycle to clear out water, and to lubricate upper engine parts. The whining stopped immediately!!! I have to believe it was a lubrication problem. Not enough of it to counteract the cleaning effect of the acetone, is what it felt like. NOW THIS IS A PERSONAL OBSERVATION, so I don't expect anyone to go along with it. You weren't here, so the sound means nothing to you. I added 2 ounces of seafoam, midtank, which kept the whineys away for the rest of the tank. MGP increase during this tank was not much, even tho seafoam helps my motorcycles gas mileage...
Anyway, Seafoam is expensive, and I can't be adding it to every tank, or it will play havoc with my money figures...
What I can do, for right now, is try a couple ounces(however much acetone I put in, I will use the same amount of Marvel Mystery Oil, or whatever I use,,, to keep the whining away, and see how the mpg goes...
MMO is a real old time remedy, and its only a couple bucks for 18 or 20 oz. SO, that only adds a tiny bit to the acetone cost.. I could live with that. I really go the coleman route, or PIB route, or any of those other ideas I have read about. I NEED TO keep this simple, or I won't do it... It can't be expensive or I won't be able to buy the additional ingredients, OR it would make the mPG prohibitive to maintain. I might do it anyway just to screw the oil companies, and the government. That IS collusion, that you can NEVER do anything about...
So, wish me luck, and I'll report the findings as I get them.
I did not see what caused Hiroller to feel that acetone wasn't worth it, except he got no results. Thats what this is all about. Not everyone will get results!! And if you use too much, you sure as hell won't get good result.....
I know of at least 2 other NG's that keep this topic going, yahoo has a mpg something, and THe discovery show has a consumer blog type thing that does the same. They want the two myth busters to test this out, but havne't had any luck so far... hehehe
I wish yall the very best!!!
Oldcyborg
What is Marvel Mystery Oil? What does it contain?
How does each do anything to benefit the running of the motor?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The only gasoline additive I've personally felt was good is Techron by Chevron. It's the chemicals that were used in their gasoline as additives. I can hear a change in the motor after I've driven a short time when I put it in -- about twice a year. I buy it at Advanced Auto or Meijers department store here in Midwest. Others have talked about BK444 or some name like that as a gasoline cleaner.
I've used Rislone in the oil a few hundred miles before a change just to help clean out gunk and keep it suspended. Anymore the oils have such good additives that just doing an early oil change has the same cleaning effect.
Other suggestions folks?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yeah, sort of. The following is a repost of something I put on the Synthetic Oil discussion a couple of days ago:
Running Mobil 1 at 104,000 miles...
Hey gang, just to underscore what has been said fairly often here about just how clean synthetic oil keeps the innards of an engine, I posted a couple of pictures on my Yahoo! photo album. These two pictures (actually one photo that has a small section copied out for easier viewing) are of the valve cover oil filler hole and the rocker arm below of our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan with the 3.8 liter mill. I don't recall exactly when I converted it over to synthetic oil, but it was most certainly before the 20,000 mile mark and has had nothing but Mobil 1 (in various weights and formulations) since. Also, I have been less than religious about my OCIs, which have ranged from the factory recommendation of 7,500 miles to well over 12,000 miles in a couple of cases.
Once in my album, click on "Caravan Stuff" and then click on the last photo DGC3.8-104K.jpg for the detail view of the rocker arm assembly. Interestingly enough, it has been about 4,000 miles since I changed the oil and as can clearly be seen in the small pool of oil in the rocker arm, the oil is still almost as clear as the day I poured it in.
http://photos.yahoo.com/shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
Once you are looking at the picture, click on the "Download" button above the picture to see it in its original resolution.
------------- Total --------- Net --------------- AVG ------------------ Acetone --- MPG --- MPG ---- Fuel
Tank ---- Mileage ---- Miles --- E/T ---- MPH --- Gallons --- per 10g ---- OBC --- Calc ---- Brand
Start ---- 102,808
Tank1 -- 103,102 --- 294.3 --- 6:43 --- 43.82 --- 14.883 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 19.77 --- Shell
Tank2 -- 103,444 --- 341.3 --- 9:36 --- 35.55 --- 17.727 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 19.7 --- 19.25 --- Shell
Tank3 -- 103,765 --- 321.6 --- 7:45 --- 41.50 --- 16.206 ---- 2.5 oz ------ 20.8 --- 19.84 --- Shell
Tank4 -- 104,109 --- 344.6 --- ?:?? --- ??.?? --- 17.907 ---- 2.5 oz ------ ??.? --- 19.24 --- Shell
Tank5 -- 104,467 --- 357.9 --- 9:08 --- 39.19 --- 17.603 ---- 3.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 20.33 --- Shell
As usual, stay tuned.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Given that my engine has a relatively mild compression ratio my bet is that my mileage will drop somewhat with the Premium, however, given the range of my results so far, that would be hard to prove.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Really? Why?
I'm thinking that running the Premium in my car may negatively affect combustion even more than the Acetone. Of course the Acetine/Premium mix is the formula that I'm suspecting would be capable of the worst mileage of this test.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Last article was about acetone in gas, which appears to be the latest internet rumor.
Their response was that it does nothing in improving fuel efficiency and even worse can attack rubber components in your fuel system as it is a very strong solvent.
This is just as I suspected is the case. I suggest you who are experimenting should probably stop now or risk disolving any o-rings, gaskets or other components.
As if that wasn't bad enough, this morning the regular routine was more than a little hosed up causing me to be unable to fit the post-fill-up adding of the acetone step into my available time. I did however take Mr. Shifty's suggestion and fill with Premium fuel. This should be interesting.
Given my underwhelming results so far (which isn't anything of a surprise) with the acetone, I'm most likely going to end the test here and leave it go at that. I will however report on how my Premium vs. Regular comparisons go for the next few tanks.
------------- Total --------- Net --------------- AVG ------------------ Acetone --- MPG --- MPG ---- Fuel
Tank ---- Mileage ---- Miles --- E/T ---- MPH --- Gallons --- per 10g ---- OBC --- Calc ---- Brand
Start ---- 102,808
Tank1 -- 103,102 --- 294.3 --- 6:43 --- 43.82 --- 14.883 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 19.77 --- Shell
Tank2 -- 103,444 --- 341.3 --- 9:36 --- 35.55 --- 17.727 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 19.7 --- 19.25 --- Shell
Tank3 -- 103,765 --- 321.6 --- 7:45 --- 41.50 --- 16.206 ---- 2.5 oz ------ 20.8 --- 19.84 --- Shell
Tank4 -- 104,109 --- 344.6 --- ?:?? --- ??.?? --- 17.907 ---- 2.5 oz ------ ??.? --- 19.24 --- Shell
Tank5 -- 104,467 --- 357.9 --- 9:08 --- 39.19 --- 17.603 ---- 3.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 20.33 --- Shell
Tank6 -- ???,??? --- ???.? --- ?:?? --- ??.?? --- 15.593 ---- 3.0 oz ------ ??.? --- ??.?? --- Shell
Tank7 -- 105,102 --- 635.3 - 16:36 --- 38.27 --- 16.712 ---- 0.0 oz ------ 20.4 --- 19.67 --- Mobil
Best Regards,
Shipo
Just wanted you to know in case you think your warnings are going unnoticed ... its not that, its just that we've already covered them.
All I can say is, i'm glad i'm not testing it on my car. I've got enough problems to deal with on it right now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
------------- Total --------- Net --------------- AVG ------------------ Acetone --- MPG --- MPG ---- Fuel
Tank ---- Mileage ---- Miles --- E/T ---- MPH --- Gallons --- per 10g ---- OBC --- Calc ---- Brand
Start ---- 102,808
Tank1 -- 103,102 --- 294.3 --- 6:43 --- 43.82 --- 14.883 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 19.77 --- Shell
Tank2 -- 103,444 --- 341.3 --- 9:36 --- 35.55 --- 17.727 ---- 2.0 oz ------ 19.7 --- 19.25 --- Shell
Tank3 -- 103,765 --- 321.6 --- 7:45 --- 41.50 --- 16.206 ---- 2.5 oz ------ 20.8 --- 19.84 --- Shell
Tank4 -- 104,109 --- 344.6 --- ?:?? --- ??.?? --- 17.907 ---- 2.5 oz ------ ??.? --- 19.24 --- Shell
Tank5 -- 104,467 --- 357.9 --- 9:08 --- 39.19 --- 17.603 ---- 3.0 oz ------ 21.2 --- 20.33 --- Shell
Tank6 -- ???,??? --- ???.? --- ?:?? --- ??.?? --- 15.593 ---- 3.0 oz ------ ??.? --- ??.?? --- Shell
Tank7 -- 105,102 --- 635.3 - 16:36 --- 38.27 --- 16.712 ---- 0.0 oz ------ 20.4 --- 19.67 --- Mobil
Tank8 -- 105,468 --- 365.4 --- 9:22 --- 39.01 --- 17.842 ---- 0.0 oz ------ 21.5 --- 20.48 --- Mobil/Prem
Best Regards,
Shipo
I hope shipo hasn't done damage to the vehicle.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks! Funny thing though, I'm actually looking for a reason to dump it and get a new Audi A3. Unfortunately even after 105,000 miles this thing has only cost me about $200 in unscheduled maintenance and is only using about a quart of (Mobil 1 5W-30) oil every 7,500 miles. :-/
Best Regards,
Shipo