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Comments
If acetone worked, it would be in fuel and be advertised as a high mileage fuel by that company. If the chemists haven't gotten it to work, one person hasn't discovered it here as a great new secret for high mileage. I used to work around some of those chemists.
Let's start a separate discussion for the acetone discussion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The bottles usually indicate breathing them is not good for you. Most people knew that. They're meant to be mixed with your fuel, not your oxygen for your lungs. Continual inhalation would be bad just like inhaling gasoline which may contain some of the same chemicals already depending on the additives put in at the tank farm.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i liked the line about the acetone. wish everyone would just move past this one.
our host seems to have gotten engaged in an otherwise circular, "i say vs. you say", and ultimately for everyone non-productive thread.
pistols at 50 paces might prove more interesting and educational.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You know, as gas prices go up we're going to be seeing all kinds of "faith-based" theories on improving fuel mileage.
I can hardly wait for the next gadget/magic fluid/secret to arrive.
All that can do is block air flow slightly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Short of a scientific test, I have no idea what your test would prove. Why? In my case, I drive the same commute in the same car fueled with the same gas with the cruise control set at the same speed. Tank after tank I find no evidence to any kind of a trend, well, only half true, the best and worst numbers were driven in consistently windy conditions. I am now about 12,000 miles and 18 weeks into this test and I've seen my mileage for an entire tank fluctuate between 19.8 and 24.3. With that kind of a variance running on a single fuel (ExxonMobil Regular), how on earth could anybody declare that gasoline X delivers better mileage than gasoline Y? Unless you had a dozen identical cars, half fueled on one fuel and the other half fueled on the other fuel, and then have the entire fleet robotically driven around the same course, over and over and over there just isn't any real definitive way to tell which fuel would have the absolute bragging rights.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Yours truly
Highroller
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
After reading his view on gas, i don't think i would be needing the BG44k because it would not make sense to add this to an already highly dosed additive package. It'll probably mess up the oil's chemical makeup if it reaches to that point.
Highroller
I went to target and bought a bottle of “Gumout concentrated fuel system cleaner”. The kind they say to use twice a year, it was $5.99. Well I immediately noticed a difference; the “struggling” of the engine is gone! I’m not one to imagine miraculous results but from what I can tell it really has made a bid difference. Also it seems to be getting better gas mileage on this tank of gas. I am about half way through it.
Does this seam real? Or am I just crazy and imagining false results?
Base
Yeesh! Fortunately after I filled with Shell Regular I reset that abysmal display back to zero and by the time I got home I was right back to 22.4 MPG.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Oil additives or supplements of any kind just lighten the wallet .
Eventually i came up with the conclusion that it does work IMHO for my high mileage car, i doubted that it worked before but after several applications of it, the car is now idling quietly and no more hesitations when on the road. But, this may not be effective for all people so in my case i can only say that it was effective for my old car.
High
The good news is that I am now about 250 miles into the next tank and my Avg. MPG display is once again showing 22.5 mpg. FWIW, the vehicle in question is a 1998 3.8 liter Grand Caravan with 102,000 miles, and it has yet to see a single additive administered to the gas tank other than what already comes in the gas. Considering that it carries an EPA rating of 17/24 and is returning mileage numbers that are as good as it has ever done since new, I'm thinking that all is well and additives need not apply.
Best Regards,
Shipo
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have gotten an estimated 22% improvement in gas mileage by using 3 oz (30 mL) of acetone per every 10 gallons of gas. This also works for diesel in about the same ratios.
I first heard David Sereda spreading the rumor on Coast to Coast AM. I decided to research it and was overwhelmed by the cacaphony of ignorance vs intelligence online.
I finally found the authority on this, the person who apparently discovered, developed, and still is arguably the best authority on acetone as a fuel additive: Louis LaPoint.
The seminal essay on the matter, written by Louis LaPoint (forgive me if already given in this thread), is:
http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm
Everything you need to know is in that essay and on his several non-profit websites. But I will sum it up and add my experience. People want to throw a few oz of acetone in their tank and see an immediate improvement, and if not, then it's a piece of crap, according to them. You need to be able to follow instructions. And realize that it can take time for results to show up. The good news is that even if you decide it didn't help, you're only out 4 bucks of acetone and perhaps a few on a fuel funnel and makeshift measurer.
- You need to completely avoid alcohol/ethanol in your gas, and buy only high quality gasoline.
States like CA with mandatory oxygenators used dreaded MTBE a lot, but since it is being banned, they are switching to ethanol en masse as their oxygenator, including Shell in California. Chevron/Texaco seems to have instead gone with a new type of hydrocarbon called NExOCTANE made in retrofitted plants which used to make MTBE. NExOCTANE was developed in northern Europe and is licensed in the U.S. to Halliburton, alert to all you libs. Chevron/Texaco also use quality additives which complement acetone quite well. If you can get Shell gas without alcohol, that is good stuff, too. Worst you can do is buy no-name gas (convenience store, Costco, etc). Arco is a 'brand name' but is reputed to be bad for cars, and my experience supports that. You NEED to be disciplined with your gas purchasing. This is too difficult for some people. Also, quality gas will cost you more but will net you more milage resulting in an overall savings. I'm not talking about octane rating, mind you; I use the lowest I can find as higher octane reduces gas mileage in my car. Higher octane gas is reputed to work even better with acetone, but I haven't tested this myself, and I'm not sure if the mileage increase would validate the increased cost.
I recommend finding & using quality gasoline for a few tanks or at least one tank BEFORE you start using acetone, because when you see gains with the acetone, people are going to say that it's the change in gasoline which caused your increase, not the acetone. Of course, these are usually the people who say all gas basically comes from the same refineries and it doesn't matter where you get it or which ones you use. There are many people out there who trust the strength of their own ignorance over someone else's measured result. I shake my head when those overly-skeptical people try to pass themselves off as "scientific" when science is based on measurements, whereas most people knocking it have never tried it themselves, or didn't fully follow directions.
- Use 100% pure acetone.
Start with a quart, not a gallon. I purchased a quart at Auto Zone (sold in the paint aisle as a paint stripper) for $3.99 which said 100% pure. The stuff at Home Depot was $1.75 more per quart, had a more unweildy can IMO, and did not say 100% pure. CVS, Wal-Mart, and many other places also sell 100% pure acetone. Sometimes additives are put into acetone to make it not evaporate as quickly, for the health of those who clean/strip with it. That's not good for a gas additive.
- Less is more.
Start low, and work your way up--not the reverse. Many who don't see significant gains dump too much in their tank hoping to "clean it out" or something, then complain about not seeing results, then stop by the second tank. Boohah. Once you know you have any old bad gas cycled out of your tank, and get your baseline mpg with the new gas, go ahead and start with 2 oz (20 mL) per 10 gal. Then work your way up every tank or two. Most people see their peak at 3oz/10gal. That's three point zero. Few in my research see a peak ABOVE 3.0 oz/10gal, although most people who have gotten poor or no results (or even had a redux in gas mileage) START with something over 3.0oz, relying IMO too much on Louis LaPoint's famous and frequently-swiped "Amount of Acetone in Fuel" chart which puts the general peak of 4 of his cars slightly over 3.0 oz/10 gal. A few people hit their peak at 4oz/10gal, but not many. It depends on your engine, but the fact is that you're not adding acetone for its energy, you're adding it because of how it alters the way fuel behaves (how it alters it is in dispute; what is not disputable in my experience is that it DOES alter it somehow in a very good way).
- Resist the temptation to use the extra perception of power.
My car ran & idled smoother, and I had the perception of slightly more power after about 40 minutes of driving on my first tank with acetone in it. Such a perception is common and not a placebo effect. It is easy to make use of this new fun, which will negate any mpg increases, so stay disciplined. I always drive for peak efficiency anyway, so I knew the excuse of "You're just driving more efficiently because your subconscious wants to prove the stuff works (placebo effect)" didn't work with me. After going to 3.0 oz/ 10 gal, I got the best mileage I ever had in my 17 year-old car which I've had for 10 years and kept gas mileage figures for much of that time. I only broke 29 mpg a couple times, and never broke 30mpg, even in flat Texas cross-country with 100% highway at optimum speed with great Texas gas. Well, on my first tank with 3.0/10 (after using 2/10 for a tank, which I had used just regular Chevron gas with nothing added for the tank before), I broke 30mpg for the first time ever, and although it was mostly highway driving, it was all rush hour driving with some city driving, which tells me I can do even better than that on the open road. That was really when I knew I had something special on my hands, and that was when I started to get upset that it wasn't being added voluntarily by the gas companies, or even mandated by law. Acetone adds literally 4 cents per gallon to my fuel cost, but saves about 60-70-some cents per gallon for me if gas is close to three dollars a gallon.
- Be careful (duh).
Acetone is the primary ingredient in nail polish, but still, don't get it on your skin regularly, get a decent funnel (i.e. fuel funnel or transmission funnel) which extends into your pump receptacle, of course keep the acetone lid closed tightly, don't run with scissors... It's not any more dangerous than driving around with nail polish remover in your car. Acetone is also known as "paint stripper" so act accordingly, and it also does not get along with certain plastics and rubber. Watch your oil for a change in color; if you have a poorly-performing engine, you don't want acetone getting into your oil, as acetone IN oil will degrade it. In a healthy engine, though, acetone in gas will probably help your oil, because it seems to remove water from both the gas & the oil. Check your oil and if it turns black (instead of the normal brown), obviously stop using acetone and change your oil. Healthy engines should have no reason to worry, despite chicken littles who have all kinds of warnings about the "caustic" 0.23% of acetone in your gas, but who then happily fill up their tanks with 10% alcohol or high levels of MTBE, both of which are undisputedly damaging or caustic to one's engine and fuel lines. Any "modern" fuel line (last 20 years at least) which can handle gasoline (which itself is caustic!) and any of the other terrible, caustic things often put into gas nowadays, should easily be able to handle 0.23% acetone. With millions of cumulative miles using acetone by people out there, I challenge you to find anyone whose engine was damaged by using acetone. On the contrary, the actual evidence very strongly suggests that the proper use of acetone in gas dramatically increases engine life. Who can say the same of ethanol or MTBE?
- Have fun and be disciplined in doing your mileage.
Once you see the gains, it can put new fun into driving, or at least take much of the bite out of high gas prices. Feel free to experiment and report your results. I am currently adding 2 oz of Marvel Mystery oil to my gasoline on top of the 3 oz of acetone. I actually add the MMO first and follow it with the acetone, because the acetone cleans out my measuring cylinder. BTW, once the acetone is in your gas, it bonds to it, so it won't evaporate out as many fear. I haven't completely confirmed that the MMO on top of acetone is yielding better mileage, but I'm hoping it at least provides some supplemental upper cylinder lubrication, which some fear could be compromised in the long term by using acetone, although Louis LaPoint's results display the stark opposite if engine longevity is any measure. But then again, LaPoint is nowadays also often adding small amounts of crankcase-additive lubricants to his gasoline as well (I was doing this before I discovered his essays).
Most people who follow these steps well will usually achieve about 15% mpg improvements, but common improvements range from 15% to 35%. I am right in the middle of this and with more testing could possibly still increase it. Of course, there are many other ways to improve your gas milage, such as slightly overinflating your tires (I use 40 psi; consensus is above that is usually diminishing returns), changing your oil and air filter regularly, etc., but none were nearly as dramatic for me as acetone (I was doing all the other ones beforehand). My car is old-school enough that I can experiment with timing adjustments (setting timing forward to increase combustion time) in future experiments.
- Beware of Chicken Little skeptics
The controversy and ignorance surrounding acetone in gas in automotive forums is unbelievable and overwhelming. But I do admit, that if you're jumping into this, it helps to have an old car which isn't worth much and could be replaced fairly easily. Obviously, use your own judgement and if you are totally dependent on your car and you cannot replace it or afford to have anything go wrong, don't do it--I'd say that with anything, no matter how good I thought it was. As is often said around here, "your mileage may vary" (literally).
What I can say is that I easily have better gas milage now than I have ever had in the decade I've owned my car, I enjoy driving my car more now, and I'm even more glad I made the purchase I did all those years ago. Sure, it takes longer at the pump, and I personally go out of my way to use the exact same pump at the same station to get consistency in my calculations, but as a whole, it's been way worth it to me.
If acetone would help the mileage it would be in the fuels.
Can't you see Mobile's ad now:
"Our fuel gives 30% better mileage due to our new, secret additive. No longer do you have to suffer the low mileage by your Shell gasoline and those lesser brands. Buy Mobile today."
Of course, it's 10% higher in price. Great marketing -- if acetone worked.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
please post the references to scientifically-refereed studies, reports, journal articles that support your assertion. they would be good reading if they existed.
Therefore I'd like to suggest once again that new people entering the forum who are interested in the acetone issue scroll through past discussions in this forum (which has good links to expert opinion) and once having done so, if there is really significant new info to be introduced, such as user777 suggests, then we could start with that new "hard" data rather than comments about each other's personalities, i.e., flaming. Anecdotal experience hasn't done much good for us in the past on this subject.
I'd also be interested in any credible scientific report that suggests acetone is a harmless additive and/or has a significant effect on fuel mileage.
thanks
MrShiftright
Host
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
It is interesting. The guy starts off great but starts to lose his grip near the end of his spiel. Also note the disclaimer in the boxed text to the right.
Also an interesting comment I picked up ABOUT the above website:
"Those websites that bark the holiness of using acetone, and that just an ounce in 20 gallons will double your fuel mileage have never submitted their studies for serious engineering peer review. This is something which all engineers must submit to, peer review, and each study must be repeatable in order for it to be valid."
Anybody got an old wreck of a car to experiment with?
Host
p.s. glad to have found you guys.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
High on acetone, i kid you guys.
I dont know if i can post this... but here ya go anyways.
http://vettenet.org/octane.html
High
Makes me wonder about the rest of his credibility, really.
Oh well....
I'm not an organic chemist but his differentiation of premium as having a different base than mid and regular doesn't sound right to me. Sunoco uses a different base for premium and mixes it at the pump for you by ratio to give all the different grades?
As for the acetone, my thinking is it's more likely to interact with or affect the additives in the gasoline (to mention nothing of being miscible with the alcohol in ethanol-rich fuels) rather than affect the vaporization behavior in the spray into the cylinder.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks.
Welcome to the Edmunds Forums.
I think maybe you are posting in the wrong forum. Here's my suggestion to get you started on the right track.
Cut and paste your question but I'd add a few things, like whether it's an auto or manual transmission and whether you're having trouble actualy putting it into gear or not (shift lever jamming).
Here's your link:
Technical Questions
MrShiftright
Host
Between the aforementioned 100K tune-up and yesterday, my car has driven about 3,300 miles in about seven weeks, and consumed ten tanks of fuel in the process. Of those ten tanks, seven of them were within 0.2 mpg of 22.5 mpg. The three tanks that fell outside of that range, and hence are being eliminated from my baseline calculations, are as follows:
1) That nasty tank of gas that yielded 18.5 mpg that I wrote about back around Thanksgiving.
2) The tank of gas that I consumed last Friday while I was driving between southern New Hampshire and NYC, right in the middle of a one foot snowfall. That trip took almost eight hours and the recorded MPG for the trip was 19.7.
3) The tank that included the return trip from NYC on Saturday, a 70-mile errand that night, and my normal daily 80-mile commute yesterday. That tank yielded 24.2 mpg.
Speaking of my baseline, prior to my tune-up in October, the GC averaged 22.1 mpg over the previous 4.5 months and 10,000 miles, and with the exception of the three excluded tanks, has averaged almost exactly 22.5 since the tune-up. As such, I'm using that 22.5 number as my official baseline for this test.
About the fuel that I plan on using. Of late I've been switching between two different stations, one ExxonMobil and one Shell. Since I've had a long term relationship with General Aviation I know the simple Ethanol test used by many pilots who fly with MoGas in their airplanes, and so last week I tested the Regular gasoline at my local ExxonMobil station, and then the Regular gasoline at my local Shell station yesterday. Both tests were not surprisingly negative.
After my fill up last night, I added a very carefully measured 3.6 ounces of Klean-Strip 100% Acetone purchased from AutoZone to my nearly empty eighteen-gallon fuel tank and then filled it up with over seventeen gallons of Shell Regular. Today during my commute I didn't notice any difference in drivability or power, but I guess that shouldn't be too surprising given that I didn't really notice any drivability issues with that crummy tank of gas several weeks ago.
When I fill up again (which will be sometime between Friday and Monday) I'll report my results, as I will for each tank for the next couple of months. FWIW, I bought a one gallon can of Acetone (the AutoZone didn't have any quarts), and as I am using about twenty gallons of fuel per week, that means that I will be consuming six ounces per week once I reach the "magic" ten gallon to three ounce ratio. That in turn means that should I choose to extend the test so that I consume the full gallon, I can go in excess of twenty weeks before I decide to discontinue using the Acetone, or buy some more. Stay tuned.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Splendid courage!
Regarding the whole value thing, the Edmunds TMV is showing it at $2,510, $3,354 and $4,458 (Trade-In, Private Party sale & Dealer Retail). I'm thinking that I'd be lucky to get even the $2,500 around here. The only thing that really give me pause is the fact that I've only just recently crossed the $200 threshold for unscheduled maintenance on it since new, so slice it and dice it any way you want, this thing is cheap to drive. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I would like to see how you do on ur vehicle. Also, since im selling my old accord anyways, maybe i should put some in for a few applications before i sell it? "evil laugh". Im not sure if i should because i'd just used some BG44K with Shell regular (this may seem like alot of additives for a tank but oh well) on my accord and dont really know how my catalyst converter will react with the acetone since the BG44K was added like 2 wks ago. But, boy i gotta tell ya that BG44K is really kicking some butt! Lovin it. Only used 3 applications with it now and engine is idling quietly. Before then, the engine was vibrating alot as it seems. But, hope my oil is not diluted with fuel =/
High
High
Best Regards,
Shipo