If acetone worked, it would be in fuel and be advertised as a high mileage fuel by that company. If the chemists haven't gotten it to work, one person hasn't discovered it here as a great new secret for high mileage. I used to work around some of those chemists.
Let's start a separate discussion for the acetone discussion.
The bottles usually indicate breathing them is not good for you. Most people knew that. They're meant to be mixed with your fuel, not your oxygen for your lungs. Continual inhalation would be bad just like inhaling gasoline which may contain some of the same chemicals already depending on the additives put in at the tank farm.
thanks, at least you were kind enough to read my message and respond. i meant safe (w.r.t. the vehicle's fuel pump and filters). i don't plan on huffing the stuff. thanks.
i liked the line about the acetone. wish everyone would just move past this one.
our host seems to have gotten engaged in an otherwise circular, "i say vs. you say", and ultimately for everyone non-productive thread.
pistols at 50 paces might prove more interesting and educational.
My point was that all the chemicals in the Techron that I use, the one I believe has the greatest efficacy, are chemicals that already are in gasolines. Unlike that other simple, symmetrical hydrocarbon in this discussion. The only danger is the same as standing filling your car and sniffing the fumes that escape around the air suction nozzle.
Did it work? I know a woman, (who was a fiend of a friend, etc), who used it in her home oil tank. I guess she has a 100 gal tank and before adding Raphite, she would use the whole tank and then have to fill it about half way to complete the winter season. Apparently, she has been using it for two winters now, and she has only had to fill her tank once (at the beginning of each winter season), and supposedly there is some left over at the end of the season. Well, she's the only person I've heard of who's used it, so I was wondering how it worked for you?
I don't know but it seems that every time i use shell, my mpg seems to decrease from 18 to 16. Now, with chevron with techron, my mpg actually increase to 19 on average. I heard that shell has more additives than most other brands of gas. Could it be that the more additives a gas has, the decrease in mpg is likely possible?
You see how weird these anecdotal reports are. I get BETTER mpg with Shell gas, about .5 mpg. I just attributed the increased mpg merely to statistical variation or bad math but I do think the car runs better on it.
anyone read the latest autoweek? One of the editorials touches on acetone in gas. Absolutely no evidence or opinion presented ... just an antecdote about a friend of the writer. I am wondering what kind of letters they will get in response to it, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I do agree with your comment that the car runs a little bit better on shell. Shell seems to make my car run "meaner and stronger" than other brands, i really can't tell between chevron. I usually go to Quik Trip to get my gas, but i conclude that it doesn't have the same effect as shell or chevron does (probably have to do something with the cleaning agents/additives). I've also heard that other people have gotten better mpg with shell and chevron, maybe i need to drive awhile and see if my mpg stays constant and recalculate.
"I've also heard that other people have gotten better mpg with shell and chevron, maybe i need to drive awhile and see if my mpg stays constant and recalculate."
Short of a scientific test, I have no idea what your test would prove. Why? In my case, I drive the same commute in the same car fueled with the same gas with the cruise control set at the same speed. Tank after tank I find no evidence to any kind of a trend, well, only half true, the best and worst numbers were driven in consistently windy conditions. I am now about 12,000 miles and 18 weeks into this test and I've seen my mileage for an entire tank fluctuate between 19.8 and 24.3. With that kind of a variance running on a single fuel (ExxonMobil Regular), how on earth could anybody declare that gasoline X delivers better mileage than gasoline Y? Unless you had a dozen identical cars, half fueled on one fuel and the other half fueled on the other fuel, and then have the entire fleet robotically driven around the same course, over and over and over there just isn't any real definitive way to tell which fuel would have the absolute bragging rights.
I don't think im trying to prove which brand is the best to be exact. I'm simply just stating my personal experience with different types of gas to see what others might comment on their gas and how it affects the car's performance. It'd be interesting to find out which additive is the best (puts the most mpg, highest cleaning abilities), but i know that without lscientific experiments, there isn't a way to know for sure. I guess im burning rubber and testing out gases for my own amusement and to see what "feels" better. Yes, i can actually feel how the engine is performing by the push of the pedal haha. My only issue is that does high number of additives or a particular additivie( i don't recall that all additives are the same but maybe the gas itself is?) in a fuel tank increase or decrease mpg? I realize that i wont know the answer, but its just something to think about. Hopefully ill figure it out in 10 years when i become a chemist/automotive tech./engineer, yeah right. :P
Gasolines are blended differently for different seasons. I wonder if when putting in one brand and then a different brand 7-10 days later you get slightly different blends and the cars seems to react better to one brand over another. Also I believe that humidity and outside air temperature can affect how a car runs along with how the car has been driven in recent days. I.e., when I drive to Cincinnati and back the older car seems to run better. It usually doesn't get driven at interstate speeds for an hour and more so I assume the combustion chambers get carbon burned out as well as the computer recalibrating to match the driving style at that time.
I wonder about the blend of gas myself: "Like how do the additives react when you have a half of a tank of one particular brand and then you add another half tank of another brand." I assume that all additives can be safely blended together in all types of vehicles. But, can the blending with the different types of additives/gas cause the octane or the gas itself to alter somewhat negatively or positively? I think that there's already a report out there that has done a research on this.
I don't know if this is old news but i did a little research and came to this website where this person who has a ph.D. in organic chemistry, worked for an oil company, and even tested an additive while working for the company. This person was very clear on his topic on gasoline brands/additives. I don't know if this is a credible website but he did say that the best additive is to use 2 name brand gas like shell and chevron and use one brand for let's say 5,000 miles and then switch to another brand with another additive package. The new additive will look at the old foreign additive and remove it. Of course, after awhile, the new additive will cause some buildup, but by another 5k miles, you use another brand to start the process over. Again, i don't know if this is old news, but i'll b willing to post the link if somone would like me to.
After reading his view on gas, i don't think i would be needing the BG44k because it would not make sense to add this to an already highly dosed additive package. It'll probably mess up the oil's chemical makeup if it reaches to that point.
Hi I just read through some of this because there are 30 some pages now. I am driving an old beater right now. It’s a 1995 Mazda Protégé 1.5L, with about 75,000 miles on it. I had it serviced about 6 months ago by a mechanic that I really trust and he said the car is in good running shape which I agree with for the most part. I did notice that when I would be at a light and if I leave the car in drive the engine would seem to “struggle” a little bit. Almost like it was getting ready to die. Though the engine has actually never died. It just kind of makes that sound like it is struggling.
I went to target and bought a bottle of “Gumout concentrated fuel system cleaner”. The kind they say to use twice a year, it was $5.99. Well I immediately noticed a difference; the “struggling” of the engine is gone! I’m not one to imagine miraculous results but from what I can tell it really has made a bid difference. Also it seems to be getting better gas mileage on this tank of gas. I am about half way through it.
Does this seam real? Or am I just crazy and imagining false results?
Well I'm tempted to say "coincidence" because the injector cleaner you used isn't really very strong....but....having said that it is conceivable that you had one injector with an irregular spray pattern and perhaps the cleaner dislodged some dirt. Maybe it's stronger than other "over the counter" additives which really are rather harmless maintenance type additives, not curative type additives (which are often not available in stores).
It seems that I involuntarily signed myself up to perform a back to back to back test of non-name brand fuel. Last Monday I needed to take a different way home from work to pick something up and found myself needing gas in an area that I was not familiar with. Normally I fuel up at ExxonMobil (with a few stray tanks of Shell and Sunoco thrown into the mix) and for the last five months and nearly 14,000 miles I've been averaging about 22 mpg (plus or minus .5 mpg) on virtually every tank. This time however, I was forced to fill my nearly bone dry tank (the "Miles to Empty" display had long since hit zero) with some very inexpensive Brand X ($1.93 vs. a more typical $2.03-$2.09 around here) gasoline, ugh! Today as I pulled into a convenient Shell station (I couldn't make it home to my normal EM station) I checked the “Average MPG” display and saw an astounding 18.5 mpg reading. Yikes! A three to four MPG reduction??? What do y'all suppose was in that gas, Ethanol? Methanol? Water? MMO? Manny’s Super XXX gas additive?
Yeesh! Fortunately after I filled with Shell Regular I reset that abysmal display back to zero and by the time I got home I was right back to 22.4 MPG.
I use the Techron fuel additive every 5k miles . I figure they make the additives that go in bulk gasoline so they know how to make a good over the counter product . Probably Gumout , STP and a few more make good fuel additives but it would be nice if each brand only made one . Easier to choose that way .
Oil additives or supplements of any kind just lighten the wallet .
If i were almost out of fuel while driving out in the open road, cross country, foreign places, etc., i would be sure to bring a can of BG44k; just in case there isn't a top tier gas station around for hundred of miles.
Eventually i came up with the conclusion that it does work IMHO for my high mileage car, i doubted that it worked before but after several applications of it, the car is now idling quietly and no more hesitations when on the road. But, this may not be effective for all people so in my case i can only say that it was effective for my old car.
Call me a skeptic; however, I fail to see what good any additive, Techron, BG44K, or Joe's gas bilge would do for the junk that I put in my tank last week.
The good news is that I am now about 250 miles into the next tank and my Avg. MPG display is once again showing 22.5 mpg. FWIW, the vehicle in question is a 1998 3.8 liter Grand Caravan with 102,000 miles, and it has yet to see a single additive administered to the gas tank other than what already comes in the gas. Considering that it carries an EPA rating of 17/24 and is returning mileage numbers that are as good as it has ever done since new, I'm thinking that all is well and additives need not apply.
I also use Techron as my once-in-a-while additive. I probably do it twice a year in the older car. Just added can last tank. It has started idling rougher sometimes. I added it and the idle cleared up. At 130K I assume it's just injectors having some buildup from fuels.
I have gotten an estimated 22% improvement in gas mileage by using 3 oz (30 mL) of acetone per every 10 gallons of gas. This also works for diesel in about the same ratios.
I first heard David Sereda spreading the rumor on Coast to Coast AM. I decided to research it and was overwhelmed by the cacaphony of ignorance vs intelligence online.
I finally found the authority on this, the person who apparently discovered, developed, and still is arguably the best authority on acetone as a fuel additive: Louis LaPoint.
Everything you need to know is in that essay and on his several non-profit websites. But I will sum it up and add my experience. People want to throw a few oz of acetone in their tank and see an immediate improvement, and if not, then it's a piece of crap, according to them. You need to be able to follow instructions. And realize that it can take time for results to show up. The good news is that even if you decide it didn't help, you're only out 4 bucks of acetone and perhaps a few on a fuel funnel and makeshift measurer.
- You need to completely avoid alcohol/ethanol in your gas, and buy only high quality gasoline. States like CA with mandatory oxygenators used dreaded MTBE a lot, but since it is being banned, they are switching to ethanol en masse as their oxygenator, including Shell in California. Chevron/Texaco seems to have instead gone with a new type of hydrocarbon called NExOCTANE made in retrofitted plants which used to make MTBE. NExOCTANE was developed in northern Europe and is licensed in the U.S. to Halliburton, alert to all you libs. Chevron/Texaco also use quality additives which complement acetone quite well. If you can get Shell gas without alcohol, that is good stuff, too. Worst you can do is buy no-name gas (convenience store, Costco, etc). Arco is a 'brand name' but is reputed to be bad for cars, and my experience supports that. You NEED to be disciplined with your gas purchasing. This is too difficult for some people. Also, quality gas will cost you more but will net you more milage resulting in an overall savings. I'm not talking about octane rating, mind you; I use the lowest I can find as higher octane reduces gas mileage in my car. Higher octane gas is reputed to work even better with acetone, but I haven't tested this myself, and I'm not sure if the mileage increase would validate the increased cost. I recommend finding & using quality gasoline for a few tanks or at least one tank BEFORE you start using acetone, because when you see gains with the acetone, people are going to say that it's the change in gasoline which caused your increase, not the acetone. Of course, these are usually the people who say all gas basically comes from the same refineries and it doesn't matter where you get it or which ones you use. There are many people out there who trust the strength of their own ignorance over someone else's measured result. I shake my head when those overly-skeptical people try to pass themselves off as "scientific" when science is based on measurements, whereas most people knocking it have never tried it themselves, or didn't fully follow directions.
- Use 100% pure acetone. Start with a quart, not a gallon. I purchased a quart at Auto Zone (sold in the paint aisle as a paint stripper) for $3.99 which said 100% pure. The stuff at Home Depot was $1.75 more per quart, had a more unweildy can IMO, and did not say 100% pure. CVS, Wal-Mart, and many other places also sell 100% pure acetone. Sometimes additives are put into acetone to make it not evaporate as quickly, for the health of those who clean/strip with it. That's not good for a gas additive.
- Less is more. Start low, and work your way up--not the reverse. Many who don't see significant gains dump too much in their tank hoping to "clean it out" or something, then complain about not seeing results, then stop by the second tank. Boohah. Once you know you have any old bad gas cycled out of your tank, and get your baseline mpg with the new gas, go ahead and start with 2 oz (20 mL) per 10 gal. Then work your way up every tank or two. Most people see their peak at 3oz/10gal. That's three point zero. Few in my research see a peak ABOVE 3.0 oz/10gal, although most people who have gotten poor or no results (or even had a redux in gas mileage) START with something over 3.0oz, relying IMO too much on Louis LaPoint's famous and frequently-swiped "Amount of Acetone in Fuel" chart which puts the general peak of 4 of his cars slightly over 3.0 oz/10 gal. A few people hit their peak at 4oz/10gal, but not many. It depends on your engine, but the fact is that you're not adding acetone for its energy, you're adding it because of how it alters the way fuel behaves (how it alters it is in dispute; what is not disputable in my experience is that it DOES alter it somehow in a very good way).
- Resist the temptation to use the extra perception of power. My car ran & idled smoother, and I had the perception of slightly more power after about 40 minutes of driving on my first tank with acetone in it. Such a perception is common and not a placebo effect. It is easy to make use of this new fun, which will negate any mpg increases, so stay disciplined. I always drive for peak efficiency anyway, so I knew the excuse of "You're just driving more efficiently because your subconscious wants to prove the stuff works (placebo effect)" didn't work with me. After going to 3.0 oz/ 10 gal, I got the best mileage I ever had in my 17 year-old car which I've had for 10 years and kept gas mileage figures for much of that time. I only broke 29 mpg a couple times, and never broke 30mpg, even in flat Texas cross-country with 100% highway at optimum speed with great Texas gas. Well, on my first tank with 3.0/10 (after using 2/10 for a tank, which I had used just regular Chevron gas with nothing added for the tank before), I broke 30mpg for the first time ever, and although it was mostly highway driving, it was all rush hour driving with some city driving, which tells me I can do even better than that on the open road. That was really when I knew I had something special on my hands, and that was when I started to get upset that it wasn't being added voluntarily by the gas companies, or even mandated by law. Acetone adds literally 4 cents per gallon to my fuel cost, but saves about 60-70-some cents per gallon for me if gas is close to three dollars a gallon.
- Be careful (duh). Acetone is the primary ingredient in nail polish, but still, don't get it on your skin regularly, get a decent funnel (i.e. fuel funnel or transmission funnel) which extends into your pump receptacle, of course keep the acetone lid closed tightly, don't run with scissors... It's not any more dangerous than driving around with nail polish remover in your car. Acetone is also known as "paint stripper" so act accordingly, and it also does not get along with certain plastics and rubber. Watch your oil for a change in color; if you have a poorly-performing engine, you don't want acetone getting into your oil, as acetone IN oil will degrade it. In a healthy engine, though, acetone in gas will probably help your oil, because it seems to remove water from both the gas & the oil. Check your oil and if it turns black (instead of the normal brown), obviously stop using acetone and change your oil. Healthy engines should have no reason to worry, despite chicken littles who have all kinds of warnings about the "caustic" 0.23% of acetone in your gas, but who then happily fill up their tanks with 10% alcohol or high levels of MTBE, both of which are undisputedly damaging or caustic to one's engine and fuel lines. Any "modern" fuel line (last 20 years at least) which can handle gasoline (which itself is caustic!) and any of the other terrible, caustic things often put into gas nowadays, should easily be able to handle 0.23% acetone. With millions of cumulative miles using acetone by people out there, I challenge you to find anyone whose engine was damaged by using acetone. On the contrary, the actual evidence very strongly suggests that the proper use of acetone in gas dramatically increases engine life. Who can say the same of ethanol or MTBE?
- Have fun and be disciplined in doing your mileage. Once you see the gains, it can put new fun into driving, or at least take much of the bite out of high gas prices. Feel free to experiment and report your results. I am currently adding 2 oz of Marvel Mystery oil to my gasoline on top of the 3 oz of acetone. I actually add the MMO first and follow it with the acetone, because the acetone cleans out my measuring cylinder. BTW, once the acetone is in your gas, it bonds to it, so it won't evaporate out as many fear. I haven't completely confirmed that the MMO on top of acetone is yielding better mileage, but I'm hoping it at least provides some supplemental upper cylinder lubrication, which some fear could be compromised in the long term by using acetone, although Louis LaPoint's results display the stark opposite if engine longevity is any measure. But then again, LaPoint is nowadays also often adding small amounts of crankcase-additive lubricants to his gasoline as well (I was doing this before I discovered his essays).
Most people who follow these steps well will usually achieve about 15% mpg improvements, but common improvements range from 15% to 35%. I am right in the middle of this and with more testing could possibly still increase it. Of course, there are many other ways to improve your gas milage, such as slightly overinflating your tires (I use 40 psi; consensus is above that is usually diminishing returns), changing your oil and air filter regularly, etc., but none were nearly as dramatic for me as acetone (I was doing all the other ones beforehand). My car is old-school enough that I can experiment with timing adjustments (setting timing forward to increase combustion time) in future experiments.
- Beware of Chicken Little skeptics The controversy and ignorance surrounding acetone in gas in automotive forums is unbelievable and overwhelming. But I do admit, that if you're jumping into this, it helps to have an old car which isn't worth much and could be replaced fairly easily. Obviously, use your own judgement and if you are totally dependent on your car and you cannot replace it or afford to have anything go wrong, don't do it--I'd say that with anything, no matter how good I thought it was. As is often said around here, "your mileage may vary" (literally).
What I can say is that I easily have better gas milage now than I have ever had in the decade I've owned my car, I enjoy driving my car more now, and I'm even more glad I made the purchase I did all those years ago. Sure, it takes longer at the pump, and I personally go out of my way to use the exact same pump at the same station to get consistency in my calculations, but as a whole, it's been way worth it to me.
Acetone in gasoline was mentioned on a national car repair talk show. They mentioned the windings on the injectors as being one part susceptible to damage from the solvency of acetone.
If acetone would help the mileage it would be in the fuels. Can't you see Mobile's ad now:
"Our fuel gives 30% better mileage due to our new, secret additive. No longer do you have to suffer the low mileage by your Shell gasoline and those lesser brands. Buy Mobile today."
Of course, it's 10% higher in price. Great marketing -- if acetone worked.
There is much evidence, on the other hand, to acetone's actual promotion of both near-term engine health AND longevity.
please post the references to scientifically-refereed studies, reports, journal articles that support your assertion. they would be good reading if they existed.
I'd really like us to avoid the inevitable in-fighting that occurs with acetone discussions and the tone of this new discussion already presages an inevitably bad conclusion.
Therefore I'd like to suggest once again that new people entering the forum who are interested in the acetone issue scroll through past discussions in this forum (which has good links to expert opinion) and once having done so, if there is really significant new info to be introduced, such as user777 suggests, then we could start with that new "hard" data rather than comments about each other's personalities, i.e., flaming. Anecdotal experience hasn't done much good for us in the past on this subject.
I'd also be interested in any credible scientific report that suggests acetone is a harmless additive and/or has a significant effect on fuel mileage.
It is interesting. The guy starts off great but starts to lose his grip near the end of his spiel. Also note the disclaimer in the boxed text to the right.
Also an interesting comment I picked up ABOUT the above website:
"Those websites that bark the holiness of using acetone, and that just an ounce in 20 gallons will double your fuel mileage have never submitted their studies for serious engineering peer review. This is something which all engineers must submit to, peer review, and each study must be repeatable in order for it to be valid."
Anybody got an old wreck of a car to experiment with?
I too was told by some old coger at my local gas station about acetone on my 97 caddy. I thought for a long time I had made a mistake trying the stuff????
The author of the "report" should test it on several cars in a blind test. His test does not meet any scientific measure from what I read in a quick scan.
All this acetone stuff is driving me nuts. Im so sick of the topic that im going to use it on my beatup lawnmower just for the heck of it. And then im going to sell it when i have a garage sell. Acetone should make my beatup lawnmower like new again right?
I don't know what to think about his writings. He seems to have some chemistry organic knowledge but seems to have some urban legend mixed in--I mean some things that sound like they might be urban legend.
I'm not an organic chemist but his differentiation of premium as having a different base than mid and regular doesn't sound right to me. Sunoco uses a different base for premium and mixes it at the pump for you by ratio to give all the different grades?
As for the acetone, my thinking is it's more likely to interact with or affect the additives in the gasoline (to mention nothing of being miscible with the alcohol in ethanol-rich fuels) rather than affect the vaporization behavior in the spray into the cylinder.
I have a 2000 toyota echo and recently I have noticed that I am having trouble getting the power I used to between gears. It is especially hesitant between when shifting into second or third. The last thing I want to do is pay an arm and a leg to have my clutch replaced. Any suggestions or ideas? Thanks.
I think maybe you are posting in the wrong forum. Here's my suggestion to get you started on the right track.
Cut and paste your question but I'd add a few things, like whether it's an auto or manual transmission and whether you're having trouble actualy putting it into gear or not (shift lever jamming).
With the confluence of three recent events, 1) all of the anecdotal posts on Acetone, 2) my experience with a bad tank of gasoline that dropped my mileage an astounding 18% from the tanks of gasoline immediately surrounding it, and 3) my daily driver (1998 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8) passed 100,000 miles (and got the prescribed 100K tune up), I got to thinking that since my car seems to have a very high level of sensitivity to the quality of the fuel its fed, may I should ante up and do an Acetone test. The fact is that while the GC has been a model of reliability, and is as nearly free as any ride can be, I want a new car, thus at least partially removing the fear of damaging my car with the Acetone.
Between the aforementioned 100K tune-up and yesterday, my car has driven about 3,300 miles in about seven weeks, and consumed ten tanks of fuel in the process. Of those ten tanks, seven of them were within 0.2 mpg of 22.5 mpg. The three tanks that fell outside of that range, and hence are being eliminated from my baseline calculations, are as follows:
1) That nasty tank of gas that yielded 18.5 mpg that I wrote about back around Thanksgiving. 2) The tank of gas that I consumed last Friday while I was driving between southern New Hampshire and NYC, right in the middle of a one foot snowfall. That trip took almost eight hours and the recorded MPG for the trip was 19.7. 3) The tank that included the return trip from NYC on Saturday, a 70-mile errand that night, and my normal daily 80-mile commute yesterday. That tank yielded 24.2 mpg.
Speaking of my baseline, prior to my tune-up in October, the GC averaged 22.1 mpg over the previous 4.5 months and 10,000 miles, and with the exception of the three excluded tanks, has averaged almost exactly 22.5 since the tune-up. As such, I'm using that 22.5 number as my official baseline for this test.
About the fuel that I plan on using. Of late I've been switching between two different stations, one ExxonMobil and one Shell. Since I've had a long term relationship with General Aviation I know the simple Ethanol test used by many pilots who fly with MoGas in their airplanes, and so last week I tested the Regular gasoline at my local ExxonMobil station, and then the Regular gasoline at my local Shell station yesterday. Both tests were not surprisingly negative.
After my fill up last night, I added a very carefully measured 3.6 ounces of Klean-Strip 100% Acetone purchased from AutoZone to my nearly empty eighteen-gallon fuel tank and then filled it up with over seventeen gallons of Shell Regular. Today during my commute I didn't notice any difference in drivability or power, but I guess that shouldn't be too surprising given that I didn't really notice any drivability issues with that crummy tank of gas several weeks ago.
When I fill up again (which will be sometime between Friday and Monday) I'll report my results, as I will for each tank for the next couple of months. FWIW, I bought a one gallon can of Acetone (the AutoZone didn't have any quarts), and as I am using about twenty gallons of fuel per week, that means that I will be consuming six ounces per week once I reach the "magic" ten gallon to three ounce ratio. That in turn means that should I choose to extend the test so that I consume the full gallon, I can go in excess of twenty weeks before I decide to discontinue using the Acetone, or buy some more. Stay tuned.
Great...this will be interesting. I wanted to do this myself but didn't want to risk my new car or my old one. I was thinking of getting a beater since (ahem) this seems to be what most of the Acetonians are using for their own experiments. I'd hardly call your car a "beater" by any means but I see your reasoning, that with so many miles its value these days is probably not so great. We promise to share your pain. :P
Regarding the whole value thing, the Edmunds TMV is showing it at $2,510, $3,354 and $4,458 (Trade-In, Private Party sale & Dealer Retail). I'm thinking that I'd be lucky to get even the $2,500 around here. The only thing that really give me pause is the fact that I've only just recently crossed the $200 threshold for unscheduled maintenance on it since new, so slice it and dice it any way you want, this thing is cheap to drive. ;-)
I applaud your courage to do this. Im also using acetone but only on my old, beat-up lawnmower. Since my relatives own several nail shops here in texas, i get a lifetime supply of 100% acetone. So i decide to give it a try. My method is just putting some acetone in and pouring some gas. Dont know how much gas was in there before i put it in but who cares. I know i dont use the lawnmower everyday like i would be driving a car daily, but what the heck... just doing it for kicks right? So far, i'd cut the grass twice in two weeks, feels the same as before the acetone was poured in. Nothing points to increase in power, better startup, or a more quiet engine. I still have to pull the string several "thousand" times to startup my mower.
I would like to see how you do on ur vehicle. Also, since im selling my old accord anyways, maybe i should put some in for a few applications before i sell it? "evil laugh". Im not sure if i should because i'd just used some BG44K with Shell regular (this may seem like alot of additives for a tank but oh well) on my accord and dont really know how my catalyst converter will react with the acetone since the BG44K was added like 2 wks ago. But, boy i gotta tell ya that BG44K is really kicking some butt! Lovin it. Only used 3 applications with it now and engine is idling quietly. Before then, the engine was vibrating alot as it seems. But, hope my oil is not diluted with fuel =/
ill let you guys know when i do this little experiment on my honda accord, i should be able to start within this week or so. Well, now i have something to do over the holiday season rather than sitting home watching football or what not . With a lawnmower, i dont think i will be able to unless i feel like cutting my grass almost everyday in this cold weather month haha.
Tonight after work I needed to run an unscheduled errand that added almost 70 miles to my evening commute. What that means is that I'll be filling up most likely tomorrow night or Friday morning, which of course is earlier than I had planned. This also means that I will have a higher percentage of highway miles on this tank than what is my typical, which will most likely skew my calculations for this first tank up a little bit. Should be interesting. Stay tuned.
Comments
If acetone worked, it would be in fuel and be advertised as a high mileage fuel by that company. If the chemists haven't gotten it to work, one person hasn't discovered it here as a great new secret for high mileage. I used to work around some of those chemists.
Let's start a separate discussion for the acetone discussion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The bottles usually indicate breathing them is not good for you. Most people knew that. They're meant to be mixed with your fuel, not your oxygen for your lungs. Continual inhalation would be bad just like inhaling gasoline which may contain some of the same chemicals already depending on the additives put in at the tank farm.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i liked the line about the acetone. wish everyone would just move past this one.
our host seems to have gotten engaged in an otherwise circular, "i say vs. you say", and ultimately for everyone non-productive thread.
pistols at 50 paces might prove more interesting and educational.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You know, as gas prices go up we're going to be seeing all kinds of "faith-based" theories on improving fuel mileage.
I can hardly wait for the next gadget/magic fluid/secret to arrive.
All that can do is block air flow slightly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Short of a scientific test, I have no idea what your test would prove. Why? In my case, I drive the same commute in the same car fueled with the same gas with the cruise control set at the same speed. Tank after tank I find no evidence to any kind of a trend, well, only half true, the best and worst numbers were driven in consistently windy conditions. I am now about 12,000 miles and 18 weeks into this test and I've seen my mileage for an entire tank fluctuate between 19.8 and 24.3. With that kind of a variance running on a single fuel (ExxonMobil Regular), how on earth could anybody declare that gasoline X delivers better mileage than gasoline Y? Unless you had a dozen identical cars, half fueled on one fuel and the other half fueled on the other fuel, and then have the entire fleet robotically driven around the same course, over and over and over there just isn't any real definitive way to tell which fuel would have the absolute bragging rights.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Yours truly
Highroller
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
After reading his view on gas, i don't think i would be needing the BG44k because it would not make sense to add this to an already highly dosed additive package. It'll probably mess up the oil's chemical makeup if it reaches to that point.
Highroller
I went to target and bought a bottle of “Gumout concentrated fuel system cleaner”. The kind they say to use twice a year, it was $5.99. Well I immediately noticed a difference; the “struggling” of the engine is gone! I’m not one to imagine miraculous results but from what I can tell it really has made a bid difference. Also it seems to be getting better gas mileage on this tank of gas. I am about half way through it.
Does this seam real? Or am I just crazy and imagining false results?
Base
Yeesh! Fortunately after I filled with Shell Regular I reset that abysmal display back to zero and by the time I got home I was right back to 22.4 MPG.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Oil additives or supplements of any kind just lighten the wallet .
Eventually i came up with the conclusion that it does work IMHO for my high mileage car, i doubted that it worked before but after several applications of it, the car is now idling quietly and no more hesitations when on the road. But, this may not be effective for all people so in my case i can only say that it was effective for my old car.
High
The good news is that I am now about 250 miles into the next tank and my Avg. MPG display is once again showing 22.5 mpg. FWIW, the vehicle in question is a 1998 3.8 liter Grand Caravan with 102,000 miles, and it has yet to see a single additive administered to the gas tank other than what already comes in the gas. Considering that it carries an EPA rating of 17/24 and is returning mileage numbers that are as good as it has ever done since new, I'm thinking that all is well and additives need not apply.
Best Regards,
Shipo
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have gotten an estimated 22% improvement in gas mileage by using 3 oz (30 mL) of acetone per every 10 gallons of gas. This also works for diesel in about the same ratios.
I first heard David Sereda spreading the rumor on Coast to Coast AM. I decided to research it and was overwhelmed by the cacaphony of ignorance vs intelligence online.
I finally found the authority on this, the person who apparently discovered, developed, and still is arguably the best authority on acetone as a fuel additive: Louis LaPoint.
The seminal essay on the matter, written by Louis LaPoint (forgive me if already given in this thread), is:
http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm
Everything you need to know is in that essay and on his several non-profit websites. But I will sum it up and add my experience. People want to throw a few oz of acetone in their tank and see an immediate improvement, and if not, then it's a piece of crap, according to them. You need to be able to follow instructions. And realize that it can take time for results to show up. The good news is that even if you decide it didn't help, you're only out 4 bucks of acetone and perhaps a few on a fuel funnel and makeshift measurer.
- You need to completely avoid alcohol/ethanol in your gas, and buy only high quality gasoline.
States like CA with mandatory oxygenators used dreaded MTBE a lot, but since it is being banned, they are switching to ethanol en masse as their oxygenator, including Shell in California. Chevron/Texaco seems to have instead gone with a new type of hydrocarbon called NExOCTANE made in retrofitted plants which used to make MTBE. NExOCTANE was developed in northern Europe and is licensed in the U.S. to Halliburton, alert to all you libs. Chevron/Texaco also use quality additives which complement acetone quite well. If you can get Shell gas without alcohol, that is good stuff, too. Worst you can do is buy no-name gas (convenience store, Costco, etc). Arco is a 'brand name' but is reputed to be bad for cars, and my experience supports that. You NEED to be disciplined with your gas purchasing. This is too difficult for some people. Also, quality gas will cost you more but will net you more milage resulting in an overall savings. I'm not talking about octane rating, mind you; I use the lowest I can find as higher octane reduces gas mileage in my car. Higher octane gas is reputed to work even better with acetone, but I haven't tested this myself, and I'm not sure if the mileage increase would validate the increased cost.
I recommend finding & using quality gasoline for a few tanks or at least one tank BEFORE you start using acetone, because when you see gains with the acetone, people are going to say that it's the change in gasoline which caused your increase, not the acetone. Of course, these are usually the people who say all gas basically comes from the same refineries and it doesn't matter where you get it or which ones you use. There are many people out there who trust the strength of their own ignorance over someone else's measured result. I shake my head when those overly-skeptical people try to pass themselves off as "scientific" when science is based on measurements, whereas most people knocking it have never tried it themselves, or didn't fully follow directions.
- Use 100% pure acetone.
Start with a quart, not a gallon. I purchased a quart at Auto Zone (sold in the paint aisle as a paint stripper) for $3.99 which said 100% pure. The stuff at Home Depot was $1.75 more per quart, had a more unweildy can IMO, and did not say 100% pure. CVS, Wal-Mart, and many other places also sell 100% pure acetone. Sometimes additives are put into acetone to make it not evaporate as quickly, for the health of those who clean/strip with it. That's not good for a gas additive.
- Less is more.
Start low, and work your way up--not the reverse. Many who don't see significant gains dump too much in their tank hoping to "clean it out" or something, then complain about not seeing results, then stop by the second tank. Boohah. Once you know you have any old bad gas cycled out of your tank, and get your baseline mpg with the new gas, go ahead and start with 2 oz (20 mL) per 10 gal. Then work your way up every tank or two. Most people see their peak at 3oz/10gal. That's three point zero. Few in my research see a peak ABOVE 3.0 oz/10gal, although most people who have gotten poor or no results (or even had a redux in gas mileage) START with something over 3.0oz, relying IMO too much on Louis LaPoint's famous and frequently-swiped "Amount of Acetone in Fuel" chart which puts the general peak of 4 of his cars slightly over 3.0 oz/10 gal. A few people hit their peak at 4oz/10gal, but not many. It depends on your engine, but the fact is that you're not adding acetone for its energy, you're adding it because of how it alters the way fuel behaves (how it alters it is in dispute; what is not disputable in my experience is that it DOES alter it somehow in a very good way).
- Resist the temptation to use the extra perception of power.
My car ran & idled smoother, and I had the perception of slightly more power after about 40 minutes of driving on my first tank with acetone in it. Such a perception is common and not a placebo effect. It is easy to make use of this new fun, which will negate any mpg increases, so stay disciplined. I always drive for peak efficiency anyway, so I knew the excuse of "You're just driving more efficiently because your subconscious wants to prove the stuff works (placebo effect)" didn't work with me. After going to 3.0 oz/ 10 gal, I got the best mileage I ever had in my 17 year-old car which I've had for 10 years and kept gas mileage figures for much of that time. I only broke 29 mpg a couple times, and never broke 30mpg, even in flat Texas cross-country with 100% highway at optimum speed with great Texas gas. Well, on my first tank with 3.0/10 (after using 2/10 for a tank, which I had used just regular Chevron gas with nothing added for the tank before), I broke 30mpg for the first time ever, and although it was mostly highway driving, it was all rush hour driving with some city driving, which tells me I can do even better than that on the open road. That was really when I knew I had something special on my hands, and that was when I started to get upset that it wasn't being added voluntarily by the gas companies, or even mandated by law. Acetone adds literally 4 cents per gallon to my fuel cost, but saves about 60-70-some cents per gallon for me if gas is close to three dollars a gallon.
- Be careful (duh).
Acetone is the primary ingredient in nail polish, but still, don't get it on your skin regularly, get a decent funnel (i.e. fuel funnel or transmission funnel) which extends into your pump receptacle, of course keep the acetone lid closed tightly, don't run with scissors... It's not any more dangerous than driving around with nail polish remover in your car. Acetone is also known as "paint stripper" so act accordingly, and it also does not get along with certain plastics and rubber. Watch your oil for a change in color; if you have a poorly-performing engine, you don't want acetone getting into your oil, as acetone IN oil will degrade it. In a healthy engine, though, acetone in gas will probably help your oil, because it seems to remove water from both the gas & the oil. Check your oil and if it turns black (instead of the normal brown), obviously stop using acetone and change your oil. Healthy engines should have no reason to worry, despite chicken littles who have all kinds of warnings about the "caustic" 0.23% of acetone in your gas, but who then happily fill up their tanks with 10% alcohol or high levels of MTBE, both of which are undisputedly damaging or caustic to one's engine and fuel lines. Any "modern" fuel line (last 20 years at least) which can handle gasoline (which itself is caustic!) and any of the other terrible, caustic things often put into gas nowadays, should easily be able to handle 0.23% acetone. With millions of cumulative miles using acetone by people out there, I challenge you to find anyone whose engine was damaged by using acetone. On the contrary, the actual evidence very strongly suggests that the proper use of acetone in gas dramatically increases engine life. Who can say the same of ethanol or MTBE?
- Have fun and be disciplined in doing your mileage.
Once you see the gains, it can put new fun into driving, or at least take much of the bite out of high gas prices. Feel free to experiment and report your results. I am currently adding 2 oz of Marvel Mystery oil to my gasoline on top of the 3 oz of acetone. I actually add the MMO first and follow it with the acetone, because the acetone cleans out my measuring cylinder. BTW, once the acetone is in your gas, it bonds to it, so it won't evaporate out as many fear. I haven't completely confirmed that the MMO on top of acetone is yielding better mileage, but I'm hoping it at least provides some supplemental upper cylinder lubrication, which some fear could be compromised in the long term by using acetone, although Louis LaPoint's results display the stark opposite if engine longevity is any measure. But then again, LaPoint is nowadays also often adding small amounts of crankcase-additive lubricants to his gasoline as well (I was doing this before I discovered his essays).
Most people who follow these steps well will usually achieve about 15% mpg improvements, but common improvements range from 15% to 35%. I am right in the middle of this and with more testing could possibly still increase it. Of course, there are many other ways to improve your gas milage, such as slightly overinflating your tires (I use 40 psi; consensus is above that is usually diminishing returns), changing your oil and air filter regularly, etc., but none were nearly as dramatic for me as acetone (I was doing all the other ones beforehand). My car is old-school enough that I can experiment with timing adjustments (setting timing forward to increase combustion time) in future experiments.
- Beware of Chicken Little skeptics
The controversy and ignorance surrounding acetone in gas in automotive forums is unbelievable and overwhelming. But I do admit, that if you're jumping into this, it helps to have an old car which isn't worth much and could be replaced fairly easily. Obviously, use your own judgement and if you are totally dependent on your car and you cannot replace it or afford to have anything go wrong, don't do it--I'd say that with anything, no matter how good I thought it was. As is often said around here, "your mileage may vary" (literally).
What I can say is that I easily have better gas milage now than I have ever had in the decade I've owned my car, I enjoy driving my car more now, and I'm even more glad I made the purchase I did all those years ago. Sure, it takes longer at the pump, and I personally go out of my way to use the exact same pump at the same station to get consistency in my calculations, but as a whole, it's been way worth it to me.
If acetone would help the mileage it would be in the fuels.
Can't you see Mobile's ad now:
"Our fuel gives 30% better mileage due to our new, secret additive. No longer do you have to suffer the low mileage by your Shell gasoline and those lesser brands. Buy Mobile today."
Of course, it's 10% higher in price. Great marketing -- if acetone worked.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
please post the references to scientifically-refereed studies, reports, journal articles that support your assertion. they would be good reading if they existed.
Therefore I'd like to suggest once again that new people entering the forum who are interested in the acetone issue scroll through past discussions in this forum (which has good links to expert opinion) and once having done so, if there is really significant new info to be introduced, such as user777 suggests, then we could start with that new "hard" data rather than comments about each other's personalities, i.e., flaming. Anecdotal experience hasn't done much good for us in the past on this subject.
I'd also be interested in any credible scientific report that suggests acetone is a harmless additive and/or has a significant effect on fuel mileage.
thanks
MrShiftright
Host
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
It is interesting. The guy starts off great but starts to lose his grip near the end of his spiel. Also note the disclaimer in the boxed text to the right.
Also an interesting comment I picked up ABOUT the above website:
"Those websites that bark the holiness of using acetone, and that just an ounce in 20 gallons will double your fuel mileage have never submitted their studies for serious engineering peer review. This is something which all engineers must submit to, peer review, and each study must be repeatable in order for it to be valid."
Anybody got an old wreck of a car to experiment with?
Host
p.s. glad to have found you guys.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
High on acetone, i kid you guys.
I dont know if i can post this... but here ya go anyways.
http://vettenet.org/octane.html
High
Makes me wonder about the rest of his credibility, really.
Oh well....
I'm not an organic chemist but his differentiation of premium as having a different base than mid and regular doesn't sound right to me. Sunoco uses a different base for premium and mixes it at the pump for you by ratio to give all the different grades?
As for the acetone, my thinking is it's more likely to interact with or affect the additives in the gasoline (to mention nothing of being miscible with the alcohol in ethanol-rich fuels) rather than affect the vaporization behavior in the spray into the cylinder.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks.
Welcome to the Edmunds Forums.
I think maybe you are posting in the wrong forum. Here's my suggestion to get you started on the right track.
Cut and paste your question but I'd add a few things, like whether it's an auto or manual transmission and whether you're having trouble actualy putting it into gear or not (shift lever jamming).
Here's your link:
Technical Questions
MrShiftright
Host
Between the aforementioned 100K tune-up and yesterday, my car has driven about 3,300 miles in about seven weeks, and consumed ten tanks of fuel in the process. Of those ten tanks, seven of them were within 0.2 mpg of 22.5 mpg. The three tanks that fell outside of that range, and hence are being eliminated from my baseline calculations, are as follows:
1) That nasty tank of gas that yielded 18.5 mpg that I wrote about back around Thanksgiving.
2) The tank of gas that I consumed last Friday while I was driving between southern New Hampshire and NYC, right in the middle of a one foot snowfall. That trip took almost eight hours and the recorded MPG for the trip was 19.7.
3) The tank that included the return trip from NYC on Saturday, a 70-mile errand that night, and my normal daily 80-mile commute yesterday. That tank yielded 24.2 mpg.
Speaking of my baseline, prior to my tune-up in October, the GC averaged 22.1 mpg over the previous 4.5 months and 10,000 miles, and with the exception of the three excluded tanks, has averaged almost exactly 22.5 since the tune-up. As such, I'm using that 22.5 number as my official baseline for this test.
About the fuel that I plan on using. Of late I've been switching between two different stations, one ExxonMobil and one Shell. Since I've had a long term relationship with General Aviation I know the simple Ethanol test used by many pilots who fly with MoGas in their airplanes, and so last week I tested the Regular gasoline at my local ExxonMobil station, and then the Regular gasoline at my local Shell station yesterday. Both tests were not surprisingly negative.
After my fill up last night, I added a very carefully measured 3.6 ounces of Klean-Strip 100% Acetone purchased from AutoZone to my nearly empty eighteen-gallon fuel tank and then filled it up with over seventeen gallons of Shell Regular. Today during my commute I didn't notice any difference in drivability or power, but I guess that shouldn't be too surprising given that I didn't really notice any drivability issues with that crummy tank of gas several weeks ago.
When I fill up again (which will be sometime between Friday and Monday) I'll report my results, as I will for each tank for the next couple of months. FWIW, I bought a one gallon can of Acetone (the AutoZone didn't have any quarts), and as I am using about twenty gallons of fuel per week, that means that I will be consuming six ounces per week once I reach the "magic" ten gallon to three ounce ratio. That in turn means that should I choose to extend the test so that I consume the full gallon, I can go in excess of twenty weeks before I decide to discontinue using the Acetone, or buy some more. Stay tuned.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Splendid courage!
Regarding the whole value thing, the Edmunds TMV is showing it at $2,510, $3,354 and $4,458 (Trade-In, Private Party sale & Dealer Retail). I'm thinking that I'd be lucky to get even the $2,500 around here. The only thing that really give me pause is the fact that I've only just recently crossed the $200 threshold for unscheduled maintenance on it since new, so slice it and dice it any way you want, this thing is cheap to drive. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I would like to see how you do on ur vehicle. Also, since im selling my old accord anyways, maybe i should put some in for a few applications before i sell it? "evil laugh". Im not sure if i should because i'd just used some BG44K with Shell regular (this may seem like alot of additives for a tank but oh well) on my accord and dont really know how my catalyst converter will react with the acetone since the BG44K was added like 2 wks ago. But, boy i gotta tell ya that BG44K is really kicking some butt! Lovin it. Only used 3 applications with it now and engine is idling quietly. Before then, the engine was vibrating alot as it seems. But, hope my oil is not diluted with fuel =/
High
High
Best Regards,
Shipo