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The big question is whether you trust putting it in your car in the first place. If it really is 90% kerosene and you only use, what was it?, an oz. per tank? Then.... I don't know, you decide.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
You are, indeed being polite and civil in these discussions. You are also, outgunned by some very intellegent people with many years of experience.
And, you simply aren't listening or you are so caught up in the propaganda of this miracle product that you have blocked out the facts here.
Do you have any idea how many of these "Johnny Come Lately" schemes have come and gone over the years?
Seriously, you need to come to grips with reality here and listen to the experts that have tried to show you the real facts.
I think, even if 5 others were to try it and get NO results, you would still be hard pressed to convince him that he didn't get a 7 mpg improvement as a result of the miracle juice.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1. You must fill up to the same level on the fuel gauge (or stop at the first "click" of the pump shut-off).
2. You must fill at the same pump or close to the same pump, using the same brand of fuel. This will eliminate variation in ground level and variations in fuel blends.
3. You must calculate fuel mileage as an average for at least 4-5 tankfuls, varying city/hwy mileage.
4. Ideally, you should have a good prior record of your car's fuel mileage over the last 5,000 miles or so.
5. Drive like you drive. Forget you are doing a test. In fact, drive a bit harder--after all, with a 35% mileage gain you can afford to put your foot in it and still come out way ahead, right? :P
6. DON'T do a tune up or add air to tires etc during the test. Adding air can bump fuel mileage 3-4% and a good tune up could add 10% easy. Doing other things to a car can really skew the test results.
My prediction. The increase in fuel mileage will be zero, or within a statistical variation of 1 mpg, if you run the test as I suggest.
Okay get out there and prove me wrong
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=9752&page_number=1
http://www.toptiergas.com/
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This topic has come up before and so I think that it is appropriate that I repost what I posted 156 posts back:
shipo, "Fuel and Oil Additives" #316, 16 Mar 2005 12:06 pm
After reading this post, I checked out the Top Tier web site and did a little studying of my own. This seems to me to be something of a non-issue (at least with name brand fuels), however, just to be on the safe side, and since the only "TOP TIER" blessed fuel company that has even a single station within 100 miles of my home is Shell (the closest being nearly 20 miles), I decided to drop a note to ExxonMobil (whose stations are so numerous around here that it's hard to run out of gas without being able to roll up to the pump). The following is the response:
"Mr. Shipo,
Your email was forwarded to me for response.
ExxonMobil has been providing detergent additized gasolines since the 1950s and we are proud of our historical leadership in this area. In fact, back in 1985, ExxonMobil pioneered gasolines that cleaned up fuel injector deposits. All of our current gasolines are formulated to meet stringent performance standards and exceed all industry and government specifications for detergency. All Exxon and Mobil gasolines pass the performance criteria of the TOP TIER program.
Thank you for contacting ExxonMobil.
Jacqueline Levesque
Exxon Mobil Corporation"
Best Regards,
Shipo
-----------------------------------
Three different vehicles will be used to evaluate the fuel additive. All vehicle operators must adhere to the requirements below or the results for that vehicle will not be used at the end of the evaluation period. Ensure you annotate mileages to the nearest tenth of a mile and fuel to the nearest tenth of a gallon. No guessing or estimating, accuracy is important for a good evaluation. Ensure highway miles are about the same for the baseline and additive evaluations. During the test period stay out of the mountains, altitude will affect gas mileage. If you have a job in the mountains take a van. They are not being used in the test. Then get right back in your normal vehicle. Drive safe guys!!!
1. Tune up vehicle and air up all tires prior to the beginning of the tests. None of this can change during the mileage tests.
2. Start with a baseline running through four tanks of fuel not using the fuel additive and recording the results on the sheet below.
a. When filling the tank stop at the first "click" of the pump shut-off. (DO NOT cap off.)
b. Fill up at the same pump using the same brand and octane fuel every time.
c. Drive normal at all times, no rapid acceleration while establishing the baseline.
3. Start additive evaluation running through four tanks with a ratio of 2 ounces of additive per 10 gallons of fuel. This must be as exact as possible. (Measure it out, don’t guess.)
a. When filling the tank stop at the first "click" of the pump shut-off. (DO NOT cap off.)
b. Fill up at the same pump using the same brand and octane fuel every time.
c. Do not change driving habits. If anything, put your foot in it a little more.
4. Continue additive evaluation running through four tanks with a ratio of 1 ounce of additive per 10 gallons of fuel. This must be as exact as possible. (Measure it out, don’t guess.)
a. When filling the tank stop at the first "click" of the pump shut-off. (DO NOT cap off.)
b. Fill up at the same pump using the same brand and octane fuel every time.
c. Do not change driving habits. If anything, put your foot in it a little more.
I had to buy another bottle from my neighbor to get three vehicles in the test, but it is only $14 and I want to make sure I get a good sampling.
Good snake oil salesmen always had a plant in the audience to serve as an "unbiased and satisfied customer."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
good luck.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
This car has always had pretty decent power until about a month ago. It started hesitating when accelerating and doesn’t have the mid RPM range power it used to have. While looking for the possible problem I found the air filter duct had come loose between the air filter box and the throttle body (pumping dirt right into the engine). How long it was like this I don’t know. I didn't notice it because of the vacume hoses and electrical wiring on top of it in the engine compartment. The onboard computer does not report any problems. My buddy hooked his machine up to it and nothing was reported.
I removed everything including the throttle body and cleaned them up real good then reinstalled them with a new air filter. It still ran the same so I started it and ran carburetor cleaner through the air intake system trying to clean out the plenum. I should have removed and cleaned it too, but was trying to find an easy way out.
I’ve tried all kinds of fuel additives (from cheap to very expensive) to get it running properly. Nothing has worked!!! Does anyone have any suggestions, other than tearing the engine apart, to clean it up? If I have to I will, but my spare time is limited and I was hoping to avoid a time consuming project. Thanks in advance for your help.
Best Regards,
Shipo
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
wonder if it's a QC issue rather than a design one.
Geez, imagine if I had simultaneously added some "Maxo-Power" miracle additive--I'd be raving about it.
For a "placebo" to work the patient reallly needs to project a pressing need and must really be looking for a cure. I wasn't doing either.
And the tach needle doesn't lie. It's steady now, used to undulate a bit. And I could rarely dump into 5th gear at low speeds and get away with it.
I've never been able to detect the slightest difference between brands except for Arco. Arco gummed up our boat and I didn't believe the mechanic until the guy who fixed my lawn mower asked me if I had used Arco in it.
if you want a trial, send me your $60, and I will tell you I taped it to my fuel line, and how things went
if BP was producing regenerative braking components for hybrid cars, or spending a billion dollars a year in a combine with GM and D/C on the hybrid, I'd buy their pitch.
they are just dabbling in any alternative technology to oil burning so they know the technology, and can gear up to commercial if any of them take off. far as I can see, that's their "beyond petroleum" stance.
prove me wrong.
folks, here's something you didn't know. there is a magnet in each and every fuel injector ever made. all the fuel has to flow around these magnets (also called injector pintles) to get into the cylinder. even if it worked, which it never did on carbed cars, it's already there, and you pay a hundred bucks or more for each one already.
so take the $60, and fill your tank with it
government is just another captive division of big oil, inc.
or does anybody else have any ideas why hydrogen tests are limited to a few cars in upstate new york, hybrids are produced in whopping numbers like 7 thousand a year at the most busy of the lines at toyota, and no matter how many high school and college teams build little microcars that go forever across the US on solar power, it never gets past these little competitions?
agrifuels like E85 are the only chink in their armor.
Biodiesel is a much more usable fuel. E85 engines are very inefficient. You lose about 20% mileage with E85. It is still more costly to produce ethanol than it is worth. I don't see any gain except for ADM. That is the agricultural equivelant. to Exxon or BP.
Solar has never proven cost effective. PV cells cost more to produce than they generate in their lifecycle. Ask anyone that has had them for 5-10 years on their home.
July 5: Solar Energy Research Institute begins official operation, in Golden, Colorado, USA. First director is Dr. Paul Rappaport (1977-1979).
November: Atlantic Richfield purchases Bill Yerkes' company Solar Technology International. ARCO Solar builds world's largest PV manufacturing facility, in Camarillo,
California. 1980: ARCO Solar is the first company to produce more than 1 MW of PV modules in one year.
ARCO was earlier than Amoco in the history of Solar PV Cell production. Both were swallowed up by BP. Making BP the largest producer of solar cells. I guess they have all the bases covered.
http://www.solarenergyalliance.com/complete_history_of_pv.htm
It is true that Government and specifically Congress is controlled by lobbyist money. Oil money is a big part of that control.
selected holiday and all cenex stations have e85 here in mn, with a random few others, and most cenex have biodiesel of probably 20 percent soy oil.
e85 at the present time is still a little bit of a subsidy to farmers, but on doubling to 8 billion gallons a year and the wider distribution, should pretty much clear that issue. if the additional plants use biomass instead of feed corn for their input, the ethanol industry should be a net gainer for energy instead of a slight loss. one fact to remember, however, is that it's domestic fuel, at least 85% of it is. precious few suppliers can prove it. this alone counts for something these parlous days of murder and intrigue in the net exporting nations.
http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html
It is pricy, Around $20US This stuff saved me from taking my 2001 Quest to the dealer
Keepem :shades:
My question is - Is this stuff snake oil, or is it a pretty proven product? Just curious if any mechanics on this board have an opinion about this stugg.
That's what I was thinking when my buddy told me about this - otherwise, why would the past sludge issues of some of the manufacturers been such a big deal if all the dealer had to do was dump an additive in with the oil? I also wondered how the conditioner was able to "condition" the gaskets and prevent leaks. Does this stuff supposedly mix in with the oil - or does it stay as a seperate chemical down inside the pan and go seeking out the rubber gaskets? Just seemed like a little too much of a "tell the customer it does this so they will feel good about spending the $ on this."
The product works by the transfer method. It transfers your money from your pocket to the dealer's pocket.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,