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Comments
Ken
Phil
To be safe, check the ATF fluid level, and smell the fluid. It will stink, but it should not have a burned smell.
-juice
Go to an empty parking lot. Drive the vehicle in a tight figure-8 pattern a few times to help break in the clutches. If it doesn't help, please let the dealer know you tried this.
I'm not sure where I recall this from, but I did it in one of my test vehicles and it worked.
Patti
your OB's alternator should be covered by the recent recall.
-Dave
Otherwise you'll be looking at a 3rd soon.
-juice
Thanks!
Patti
(Knock on wood!!!)
I have owned a number of new cars including several Suburbans. With kids grown and a move to 'snow country', I bought the OB new and have found it to be the best car I have owned in my life. Any other cars had to be taken back to the dealer within about 2 weeks with a long list of 'fixes'. (Maybe they 'lowered' my expectations for this car ... lol)
My OB has had only one problem to be fixed. When the car was almost a year old, I found 2 slits in the upholstery on the side of one of the back seats (where the seats 'split fold'). As I'd not hauled anything IN the car with the seats split, I asked if it could be fixed. If appeared that a part of the metal frame did not have foam applied correctly, and that caused the slits. After some minor mixups with parts, the car was fixed by the dealer at no charge.
This car moved my daughter's stuff to college dorm and back. It is a workhorse! And great in winter driving. I can't say enough about heated seats! My main driving is just IN CITY - stoplights, etc. I get 20+ mpg. When we take a trip it goes up to about 27 mpg.
So - I'm sorry about problems others are having, but I'm loving this car!
Ladywclass
Well here's an update... I checked with two dealers and they quoted me between $45-55 for the toe hook cover (unpainted). One dealership said that they can get it painted for another $50 more. After hearing this, I decided to go back to the street where I lost the cover (it happened at night so I didn't try looking around then). Amazingly, I found the cover on the curb. It was a bit scratched up, but I was able to put it back onto the bumper (after reading the instructions in the manual a few times). Unfortunately, it turns out that my bumper got misaligned or bent through my "encounter" with the lawn mower bag in the middle of the road. So now there's about a 0.5-1cm gap between the toe hook cover and the bumper on one side.
My 2001 Green Bean is due for its 15k oil change, so I plan to take it back to the dealer where I bought it (2.5 hours away) to get that done, along with changing the air filter (the instructions for doing this seems a bit involved), and having them check out the bumper. I've considered taking my Subie to the local dealership, but I question their knowledge about Subarus. The parts guy was quite antagonistic when I called about the tow hook cover, first claiming that no such part existed, but then after flipping through his catalog discovered it.
--Amy
Amy: FWIW, a bottle of touch-up paint is about $5, if you want to touch-up the paint on the cover.
-juice
I'm sorry for the agg. Hopefully you'll be happy with what they are able to find out for you. Worse case scenerio, you'll have a case on file documenting your concern if they come up with a way to quiet it down.
Thanks!
Patti
I am looking to buy an Outback in the next few weeks,and I will be going in w/ a limited budget. I am looking in the 12,000 range, and the cars I am finding seem to be running about 90,000 miles on them (these are '97-'99 I am looking at). Am I being foolish in getting into car payments on a vehicle with such high miles? I can swing a car payment, but not in additon to repairs. These are all highway miles, but I just need to know is this going to be a solid reliable car choice for my family (I am married with one baby,and plans for another in the next year or so)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
A little history that may help you: '95 was the first Outback, and it had the 2.2l engine. In '96 it got the 2.5l, but that engine ran on premium fuel. '97 is sort of a nice sweet-spot, that model bumped HP from 155 to 165 and ran on regular gas, 87 octane.
So aim for a '97 or newer, and maybe consider an extended warranty. On any car with 90k miles, routine maintenance means everything. Ask for receipts, even call 800-SUBARU3 and ask for a VIN search to make sure any recalls were taken care of.
One more suggestion: new cars carry a 5/60 warranty. Any way at all you could swing a new Legacy L? We bought a 2002 wagon, 5 speed, for $17,827 earlier this year. That's $5 grand above your price limit, I realize, but even if you have to get a 5 or 6 year loan, you are under warranty for most of that time.
Good luck either way.
-juice (father for the 2nd time just recently)
I am looking to buy an Outback in the next few weeks,and I will be going in w/ a limited budget. I am looking in the 12,000 range, and the cars I am finding seem to be running about 90,000 miles on them (these are '97-'99 I am looking at). Am I being foolish in getting into car payments on a vehicle with such high miles? I can swing a car payment, but not in additon to repairs. These are all highway miles, but I just need to know is this going to be a solid reliable car choice for my family (I am married with one baby,and plans for another in the next year or so)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks for giving me some thoughts to consider...
The new is definitely out of our price range. So, '97 is a good year, then? I geuss I was thinking the newer the better, but I geuss that's not necessarily the case... Is a Forester large enough for two baby carseats and stuff?
As far as car history, I have signed up for a month of unlimited CarFax reports-- how much of a help,that is, how complete a picture do you get from those reports? Any other tips on making sure I am buying a mechanically sound car when I am delaing with a dealer, and not an individual who has maintenence records? As you might gather, this will be my first go-round on the dealership lot, so I feel at a distinct disadvantage!
thanks!
Do the math, at $12k vs. $18k for a new L, that's $8,000 for 90,000 miles... I realize it's a bit of apples to oranges, comparing the L with the Outback, but name one thing you can't do with the L that the OB can.
If I could buy the first 50, 80, 90,000 miles of a car for 10c/mile or less, I'd certainly do it every time.
Subies are pretty reliable, but this is a car w/ 10 cv joints and 2 timing belts... buy it new... can't swing it? '98 Chevy Prizm for < $6k will last a loooong time and be about the cheapest transportation you could get. Subarus, Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs are best bought new... the huge depreciation "as you drive off the lot" is largely a myth with these vehicles.
Good luck,
-Mathias (likes cars, but can do math)
-mike
So take a thorough test drive. Listen out for engine pinging, drivetrain whine, hub/bearing noises. It should drive quietly. The engine should not knock, even going uphill pulling a load. The differentials should be quiet, any loud whine/grinding is a bad sign.
Come to think of it, the wheel hub/bearing on the Legacy is fine, it was the Impreza/Forester that had that issue. Even then, you'd know, believe me. Our 626's bearing went out and the thing sounded like a coffee grinder.
If anything is wrong, you'll likely be able to hear/feel it. If not, then a '97 that is running smoothly will likely continue to do so, because those problems tend to show up early on.
Another thing is you could look for a 2000 Legacy L or Brighton. They had the 2.5l engine, too, a fewer gadgets but they'd still be under the powertrain warranty, FWIW.
-juice
The Forester might be a little tight with all the baby gear. It would fit, but snug.
-juice
First, while I can't swing a new new car, I could probably spend an extra thousand or so if it's going to make a big difference. I have found a couple 99 Legacy l's still under warranty, with 50,000 miles. that's worth an extra $1500, yeah?
Also, these L's are 1999 with the 2.2l engine- how big a deal is that? I live in a rural community with lots of rain and hills, but not much snow. I drive over the speed limit regularly(sorry!), but I don't need to do stop-light showdowns with 19 year old kids.... Isn't the main differences between the Legacys and the Outback primarily cosmetic?
The '97 Legacy had some minor changes internally over the '96. The biggest and most notable was a huge soundproofing package in the rear that really quieted it down. On the same day a few months ago I purchased a '96 (48k miles) and a '97 (23k miles) Legacy wagon.
These cars have the 2.2L engine, which I've heard is superior to the 2.5 from a longevity standpoint. I don't mean to start a war with the 2.5 owners here (all Outbacks after the 1st year), but I've heard and seen that the 2.5 (just a punched up 2.2) didn't make the transition so well. It has a experienced some oil leaks and seal problems the 2.2 doesn't due perhaps to stressing it a bit with the added horsepower. The local mechanics I spoke to before buying gave me this impression, then I called two acquaintences with 2.5 Outbacks and they'd both experienced major oil, gasket and seal issues. This was by no means a scientific survey, obviously. I'm sure most are having fine 2.5 experience, but wanted to point this out as part of my decision process.
The best part? I paid $9k for the '96 and an incredible $9250 for the '97. I let my Mom choose and she selected the 96, so I kept the 97. It has been like a Swiss metronome - just quietly goes about its business with nary a bad move or bad characteristic.
So, go with a used Legacay and choose a '97 up model. The only thing I miss that the Outbacks have are cargo tie downs, which I'm currently trying to locate (they bolt right in).
IdahoDoug (running for cover from the2.5 owners)
-mike
If your a taller person you might prefer the Outback due to the slightly raised suspension. Its only an inch or two, but it seemed more to me. Just getting in/out is easier. I had a Legacy GT last week (for a day) while my Outback was in for its 30k checkup. The GT felt hard to get out of compared to my Outback.
is that worth the extra $$? Again up to you.
--jay
I say it's worth the extra $1500, for a 2 year newer car under warranty, yes.
Before MY2000, the Legacy did not have the raised roof, so check the headroom. Outbacks have more clearance, too, but other differences are mostly cosmetic (besides the 2.5l, of course).
-juice
It looks like next week we'll be going down to Santa Rosa (200 miles away) to check out cars. Two that I am looking at are a 1999 Legacy L w/ 35k under warranty for $14,000 and a 1997 Outback Limited w/ 62k for $12,600. Now I understand that a warranty is a good thing, but Juice you were saying that problems tend to crop early if they're there-- will I be able to figure that out from a test drive? Also, this oil leak thing with the Outback's-- are '97's more prone to that the later Outbacks? Is that something I can tell from a visual inspection?
Thanks!
Sounds like it might be the infamous Pinion Bearing / Gear Ring noise made while the gas pedal is depressed between 60-80mph.
SOA rep told me that it was NORMAL noise that all
Subarus "can" make! Note: I said "can"...
I suspect that SOA won't allow a shop to work on it as my local shop replaced the Pinion Bearing and Gear Ring in my 02 OBW A4... Afterwards the
noise was NOT eliminated and I was told by the dealer that they considered it repaired..
4 weeks later the District Rep told me while riding and listening to this High pitch squeal that he considered it NORMAL transmission noise.
After 3 weeks with a CSR at SOA I was politely told that it was indeed a noise within specs of the pinion bearing/gear ring (front diff).
I'd like to see Fred Adcock, Exec- VP SOA, ride in this car for 3 or 4 hours on cruise at 70mph and see if would consider this a normal operating noise. I DONT THINK SO, HELLO SOA can you hear (read) this...
A good test (i did this) test drive 3-5 other new 2002 OBW A4 and see if they too have this high pitch whistle while the gas pedal is depressed.
Good Luck
Ken
-mike
Greg
mama: do you have any friends that live close by? I'd get a Subie owner to come with you, they might know what to look out for.
If it's a 5 speed, don't let them pull it up for you. Test it cold. Start it yourself, and check the clutch for smooth operation. If it chatters, it'll happen when it's cold, right at first.
-juice
One of the Legacy wagons that I will be looking at is still under factory warranty. My lack of vehicular knowledge will be abundantly clear when I ask you- what is a "powertrain"? Also, the dealership that I'm thinking of going to has a mechanical warranty on all their vehicles- what do you think that is?
Juice, unfortunaltely, no I don't have any Subaru-owning friends to take with me. My brother, who has a Saab convertible will be helping me. He knows more than about cars than i do (ut who doesn't?!), but is mainly there to make sure I don't get taken financially...
Good luck.
-juice
2. I drive a standard Legacy and tested Outbacks. The Legacy definitely has a better road feel. My Legacy is great in the rain. It's my personal preference. The Outback has softer steering for dirt roads. The Outback generally runs 2-3K more.
3. My son has a 2.2 in his Legacy Sedan and that thing moves. I would expect a little slower response in a wagon, but it should be sufficient.
4. I would really advise against getting a car over 65K if you don't expect to put in a lot of money for necessary maintenance and repairs. When younger I bought 3 vehicles over 90K and it cost a lot for repairs. I have bought at least 3 over 60K and these hold up much better in the long haul, especially if you stick to a strict maintenance schedule.
5. National public radio's Car talk guys Tom and Ray indicated that the least expensive thing to do it get a fairly new used car, maintain it well and drive it a long time.
Good luck in your car hunting.
Now I have a new concern-- I just got off the phone w/ my brother and wwas telling him about the dealership that I was planning on going through. the prices are good, and I assumed it was because it was a small dealership, etc. this guy's prices are more than private KBB prices, but less than KBB retail. They deal with used and reconditioned Subarus only. My brother thought I was mentally deficient to be talking with a place that dealt w/ reconditioned cars for the amount of money I'm willing to spend (no more than $14,000).
Ok- the cars that I am specifically interested in are '99 Legacy L's with about 30-35K miles for $14,000, under factory warranty and the dealership offers an additional mechanical warranty. When I told him that, he thought it unlikely that cars w/ such low mileage would be reconditioned. Then I remembered Juice saying that problems w/ Subarus tended to crop up sooner rather than later. Are the odds in my favor that I will be buying a lemon, albeit one under warranty? I really need reliability. I was feeling like this was going to be a good way to go, but now I am substantially more confused than I was a few hours ago...
Is it just a wash & wax?/ tune-up?/ sunshine treatment? (park it in the sun for a few hours)
Find out exactly what they do. They may hem & haw or have a canned answer.
Good luck, (in a good way, not a sarcastic way) 8~)
Also, what is the difference between simply used and this "reconditioned"? Every business that sells cars does some "reconditioning". I'm worried that these special cars they call "reconditioned" are perhaps what we in the business call "salvage" vehicles. These are cars that were severely damaged and written off by insurance companies, then purchased and rebuilt for sale. Could have been an accident, flood or fire, but they are generally NOT a good idea to purchase. To clear this issue with them, ask them if these vehicles have any damage history (flood, accident, etc).
I don't mean to put fears into your search, but you seem to be looking for advice and some of the terminology you're using indicates something other than what many are assuming you refer to. Hope this helps.
I well maintained and clean Subaru is an excellent investment and you've chosen a good route to take. Like any used car, there are pitfalls and foibles to avoid.
IdahoDoug
I say go for it, just take a thorough test drive and if anything at all feels wrong, pass on it.
-juice
Seats: I'm 5-11, 200 lbs, and worked ambulance for a lot of years. I don't have a "bad back" per se, but it's been stressed more than the average bear. My OB seats are fine, IMO... between the seat heat, adjusting positions occasionally on long drives, and the variable lumbar support, I'm comfortable.
Anybody: What's the best solution for heat shield vibration? It's starting to get on my nerves (finally)
Cheers!
Paul
-juice
Up until reading these posts, I never really considered that "reconditioning" can mean something as minor as a good, thorough detailing. I had a vision of them patching together parts from various salvaged vehicles, basically making a FrankenCar that I would be the unwitting buyer of...
That said, I've emailed the dealer and asked them the source of their vehicles, damage history and for a few VIN to get me started. As far as the "dealership" goes, they are a small lot on a family farm that only deal w/ Subarus, but farming is their main business. So we shall see...
My brother emailed me a link this morning to some auto brokers in the Bay area that seem pretty reasonable to work with. I've contacted them w/ my car specifications, and we'll see what they come up with. It might be a not bad way to go, because pricewise, all SF area dealers seem to be asking substantially more than Edmunds TMV. I don't know if that's because that gives them room to negotiate, or because these models are more desireable here than they are in ,say, Texas. But, as y'all may figure,dickering over price with a professional gives me the willies at best, so I'd really like to deal with a straighforward situation...
Anyhow, thanks so much and I appreciate all the advice
The last used car I bought was a Miata, and Mazda's 800 number was able to tell me that it had a rear LSD but not ABS (later verified to be correct about both).
-juice
I haven't been around for a few months and BOOKS have been written in the Subie Crew area! No way will I catch up!
So I took my '02 Bean in for its 7500 mile checkup, and had 2 question/issues, neither of which were solved to my satisfaction.
#1 The moonroof. Until about a month ago, when I hit the moonroof switch, both sections of the front moonroof opened with the switch - first the car roof slid open, then the glass popped up. The car roof part stopped opening with the switch, and I now have to open it manually. The Service Dept. said this is normal. Huh? How come mine opened with the switch until a month ago? So I stopped at the dealer, who only had '03's, and we check one. Sure enough, the car roof part had to be opened manually. Now, was mine the only Bean in the world that opened both parts with the switch? Any other '02 Bean owners out there who can tell me what theirs do?
#2. Acceleration Hesitation. This is a big concern. I'm not in the habit of flooring the vehicle, but the first time I had to do it, merging in heavy traffic, there was a loooooooong hesitation before the car responded, and it scared the behoovies out of me! I thought it might just be because it wasn't fully broken in, but here we are at 7500 miles & I've played with it a bit, and when I'm moving at anything over 30 mph, there's a full 2 second hesitation before it picks up speed after I floor it. Now, in an emergency situation, this could equal a dangerous situation. The Service Dept.'s response? Normal. Actually, first they test drove it, said "no hesitation", then hooked it to diagnostics, said all checked out OK, then test drove "other like vehicles. This is a normal type operation." Feedback from other H6 drivers? Does this sound normal to you?
Overall, I still love this car, but may the goddess forbid I should ever need a quick response!!!!
Thanks for your comments ~
Jillian & the wintergreen bean.
-mike
-mike
Haven't crawled underneath yet... waiting for the next LOF - is removing it as easy as it sounds?
How's the littlest one? Not so little anymore, I'll wager!
Cheers!
Paul
I got the VIN's from the dealer that I've been talking to, and sure enough, the '97 Outback LTD was part of the alternator recall, and the '99 Legacy L had the air flow meter recalled. Once these problems have been fixed, are these cars worthy of my consideration, or are they a sign of bigger things looming on the horizon?
Alos, right now I am leaning alittle towards the '97 as it has more of thefeatures that I'd like in a car, but it has 62k miles (vs the '99's 35 k and full warranty). CAn you buy an extended warranty on a car that has its original warranty expired?
thanks!