Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

bkaiser1

my 01 outback's windows will rattle when the doors are closed and the windows are not all the way up, but it does not seem to be a problem...a small price to pay for frameless glass, I suppose.

hashman

00' Outback with Auto. funny...I sometimes hear a click when the transmission shifts...but sometimes a think it was bump or something but it is consistant with shifting. Still unsure the origin...suspension? CV joints? Any Ideas?

hashman

My 72' Chevy rattles (frameless windows). Thought they would beef up the window tracks by now. For more solid closure of the door when the windows opened.

ateixeira

The click you hear may be the AWD clutches in motion. The power shifts as you acclerate. Most people aren't sensitive enough to hear it.

-juice

subearu

I thought I read somewhere here that it's the multiplate clutch switching the torque bias frontward, or something like that.

-Brian

snowbelter

Had the dealer check out the "click". They took it for a test drive and didn't hear anything. The day I drove it to the dealer I didn"t hear anything either, but when I got it home and drove it around the block I heard it. My wife whose car it is doesn't hear any click.

ateixeira

Crank up the tunes, then. :-)

Have the dealer document your concern, just in case.

-juice

subearu

...more noticeable on turns or other situations where front/rear bias is adjusted, etc.

I know I don't hear it all the time on our Outback.

I agree though, it's a common 'normal' noise. Doesn't hurt to have it documented though.

-Brian

red927

In August I had the transmission changed in my '01 Outback. When I got the car back I noticed that it was shuddering and making a great deal of noise when I turned going slowly. I posted my problem here (#703) and got a response from Patti suggesting I go to an empty parking lot and do a few figure eights at low speed to help break in the clutches. I did it and it worked. No more noises from the transmission. Can't hurt to give this a try.

john502

I have recently acquired a 98 Legacy Outback w/101K miles. We are pleased with the car except that it has started overheating unexpectedly. There is no consistency or predictability. I changed the thermostat & seal. It will run normal for a while, then the temp gauge goes hot & it will boil over from the reservoir.
I'm suspecting engine coolant sensor, but I've been told that Subaru's can develop "air pockets" when coolants are changed that will inhibit circulation. The fans seem to operate normally, although I'm not sure they did at the time of overheat.
Yesterday I had it to a radiator/coolant specialty shop & after driving it for several city blocks & letting it idle for about 45 min., it operated normally. They found nothing wrong.
Anyone have similar experience?

paisan

Would be my guess. I'd change it again and see what happens.

-mike

hashman

I would do a good Radiator Flush and Fill. Possibly the temp sensor is being blocked temporarily... or have the specialist check the coolant sensor. A friend had this problem on a Toyota...dirty, old coolant with scale floating around. I've sometimes see the sensor terminals corroded as well.

ateixeira

The figure 8 idea worked? Sweet, I gotta remember that suggestion.

For the cooling issue, follow the suggestions above and add one: Water Wetter. Good speed shops sell this, and it supposedly aids in heat transfer in the cooling system.

-juice

subaru_team

john502

Thanks for the input. As I drove home today, temp. started to rise as I pulled into the driveway. I raised the hood & fans were working. It got to hot, but when I raised rpm to 2500 it began to cool & went back to normal without boiling over.

ateixeira

Sounds like a borderline case. I would definitely at least "burp" the system, and think about that Water Wetter.

Let me find you a link...here you go:

http://www.mmmiata.com/catalogsite/redline.html

For 8 bucks it's totally worth a shot. They are the same guys that make the synthetic oil with the best reputation out there.

-juice

hypov

Are you back at work?

-Dave

john502

Thanks.
How do I "burp" the system? Is there a bleeder valve?

idahodoug

John,

Both my 97 and my Mother's 96 Legacies exhibited this exact symptom immediately after I flushed their cooling systems and replaced the thermostats with new Subaru thermostats. These have the 2.2 engine and have bleeder valves at the right end top of the radiator. Looks like the top of a large Phillips head screw and you loosen it until water comes out - indicating you've gotten rid of any trapped air.

If you've got water boiling into the overflow, don't bother with the water wetter which will help a few degrees, but not something of this magnitude. If this is the original radiator cap, it may be time to replace it as this is an item that wears out. The spring holding the fluid from escaping weakens and allows the fluid to go into the overflow. This reduces system pressure and encourages more boilover through the physics of lower pressure.

So. I'd crack this bleeder till it weeps fluid (warm car), and consider replacing the rad cap for a few bucks. Both the cap and the thermostat should be Subaru parts. If not, you could be in for some trouble.

IdahoDoug

john502

Thanks, Doug. Mine is the 2.5, but I'll check for the valve and will definitely replace the cap. I don't think the garage got the thermostat from Subaru (it still cost $36!) but if the problem persists, I'll look into that.
I did discover that I could squeeze the upper hose and get air out.
John

paisan

I think mine was $6 @ Auto-zone for my XT6.

-mike

nowakj66

My 02 Outback LL Bean has developed a rattle near the glove box or front passenger door.

As I go over bumps there is a tap-tap . . . tap-tap-tap sound eminating from around the glove box.

Any ideas?

ateixeira

Did you check for items inside the glove box? Sorry if that sounds obvious. I had an old cassette case rattling in the door once.

-juice

john502

Yes, That was the AutoZone price also. Must be gold plated or something.

subaru_team

Not yet. A few more weeks I think. I posted over on the Crew board. Keep your fingers crossed for "soon"!!

Thanks for asking.

Patti

idahodoug

Yikes, if you've got that much air in your system (can feel air in the upper hose), there's something terribly wrong and you need to fix it immediately. Like before you drive it another mile.

I suggest you get a jug of antifreeze and a cheap funnel, then pull the upper rad hose from the rad and pour as much antifreeze as you can into it before reattaching it. Then put the heater on full hot and run the engine until the temp guage starts to move, then rev the engine to around 2500rpm until it gets to normal operating temp. You should be getting heat out of the heater vents, also. If not, you've got a plugged heater core or something else from an improper flush.

Once it's up to temp, shut if off and find that plug. Loosen it and you might hear a bit of air come out, but only close it when you have coolant coming out. If this does not happen, let the car cool a bit and open the radiator cap WITH the plug/vent still open. Pour coolant into the rad until it comes out the plug/vent. Then do this whole process again.

I'm worried you have so much air in there that the water pump is cavitating (sucking air, basically) and is unable to properly circulate coolant. This is death on your engine, and this engine (my 2.2 is virtually identical except your cylinders are slightly larger) is the only one I've ever seen do this air trapping thing. Both 2.2's I've flushed recently did this as I noted in an earlier post, so they must indeed have a tendancy to do it.

As to the thermostat - a non factory part here is a bad call. To add insult to injury, I paid $10.95 for a factory Subaru thermostat last month and the full retail on it was $12.95.

IdahoDoug

nowakj66

I did empty the glove box but the sound persists.

They end of the story may be the dealer looking for the rattle. I am hoping it is in the door rather than the dash because I do not relish the idea of the dash being taken apart.

paisan

Could something have overflowed from the glove box into the dash? I had that on one of my cars once.

-mike

ateixeira

The glove box isn't hard to remove, if you want to look. But yeah, let the dealer worry about it.

Patti said they have "ears", a tool that helps them track rattles and squeeks. Ask if they can use one of those.

-juice

john502

Doug,
I didn't mean I was squeezing air in the hose. When I squeeze the hose, it is full of fluid, but is able to "burp" some air bubbles.
Today it ran normal temp, but when I got home, a small amount bled from the reservoir, although the needle had been normal. It seems the reservoir fills without always sucking back into the rad. The rad level was just below sight, but a small amount refilled it.
The Subaru parts was out of the radiator cap, but he said it shouldn't make that kind of difference.
I do get heat inside, so the water is circulating.

paisan

From your latest description I'd say it's the rad cap.

-mike

fibber2

Your radiator cap has two seals and a one way valve. The lower seal is held by the spring to achieve approx 1.0 atmospheres pressurization (approx 14 lbs). The upper seal forces fluid that exceeds this pressure to only go into and out of the overflow bottle. The valve is a small disk at the center of the lower seal that allows vacuum in the system (as it cools and the antifreeze contracts) to pull fluid back out of the bottle and to refill the head space in the radiator.

You will suck in air instead of fluid if:

1) the radiator cap upper seal fails
2) the radiator neck is cracked, scratched, or damage to the point of not making a seal,
3) the plastic tube between the radiator filler neck and the bottle fails - not tight, cracked..
4) the bottom of the tube is not below the fluid line in the bottle

Steve

mn_pat

My check engine light is on, according to my independant subaru shop, its the knock sensor. Is it a DIY fix? How much is a new knock sensor?

96l wagon 106k

hashman

hashman

Hit the enter key too fast...
I agree with fibber2 too! I've see cracked radiator cracks do this...there are some muscles out there who love to do the "twist". fibber2 procedure seem simple enough. Its amazing the abuse of the rad cap takes. I don't know about needing OEM parts.

alwinak

I had to have an oil change and I had a few warranty issues and I made an appointment with Beltway Subaru in Brooklyn to bring my Outback in the following week at 7:00AM. I brought my Outback in at the appointed time and saw Steve. I gave him my LL Beam coupon. He took the information and then told me he would do the oil change and nothing else. I told him the heater on the passenger seat is on all the time to at leadt fix that as it is unconfortable driving with the heat on in the summer. He told me he would only do that. While sitting there, I called the customer rep at Subaru. I heard the phone ring and Steve was talking to her. She called me back and told me there was nothing she couldn't do anything about my other warranty issues.

ateixeira

No idea about the knock sensor, sorry. Anyone?

-juice

ffsteve

alwinak,

Your report confirms my impression that the Subaru service department at my dealer also fails to do anything but the oil change (and the associated tire rotation) when the coupons are used. I asked for something else (minor, or I would have been upset) to be done the last time I was in, and was also refused.

Too bad, it would be nice to combine visits. You might try, as I might next time, to insist that two tickets are created - one for the coupon oil service, and the other for the warrenty work. You have to assume that different entities somewhere are being billed for the different work.

Steve in San Diego
(Balboa Subaru for those interested)

cptplt

why would they not do non coupon work the same time as coupon work?? its no different than if they had sent out a coupon for something discounted or , less likely, free! If there was like a quick lube thing they run and you showed up there and wanted major engine work without an appointment I can see that being a problem but if you have an appointment, the only differnce is your oil change is free! Some dealers are nuts! I would find another dealer if there is one in your area!

ffsteve

Yes, I agree with you cptplt. But Balboa is walking distance to my work, so services are pretty easy to work into my daily schedule. The alternate dealer is quite a distance away, and would necessitate a special trip for every service - and I'd bet that I would find the same result from them on this subject too! I've had good service from them otherwise, so will not rock the boat.

Sometimes you just need to be patient, and just realize there is very little perfection in our world.

Steve

sharonp3

Hi! First time here interesting reading.
I am the owner of a 1996 Subaru Outback and am proud to say that I will soon be getting rid of this lemon. The day I drove my new vehicle off lot I heard whine/rear differential. To make long story short including the dif that came with the car I have had four rear difs installed! And just recently the front dif/transmission. What really burns me is that I found out that the mfg changed the front dif in 1997/they were aware of the problem but would not have the decency to recall my 1996 which technically would have been covered under warranty. Furthermore, I complained of the noise but service people wrote it off to noise from tires, I was beginning to think I was hearing things. Lots of problems with oil leaking mechanics having difficulty finding out where it is coming from/suspect rear dif seal. This Subaru is "down and under"

hashman

What's a Knock Sensor? Is it a device that senses "back fire"? If it is. Would the Oxygen sensor be at fault? dunno...

ateixeira

It took 7 years for you to decide to sell that Outback???

A knock sensor basically listens for detonation in the cylinders before the spark occurs. If the ECU gets that signal, it dials back ignition timing until the knock stops.

-juice

hashman

is it sensing pressure?

idahodoug

Wow, sorry to hear of your problems. There's a wealth of talent here on the board that would love to hear more details so it can be picked apart and find out the root cause, but sounds like you're moving on. Best of luck to your next vehicle purchase.

The knock sensor is actually a vibration sensor. Normal detonation causes vibration A and premature detonation (knock) causes vibration B. The sensor is in the engine block and there are often more than one to ensure both banks of a V design are protected.

IdahoDoug

jfl

Out of curiosity, anyone know where Subaru's knock sensors are?

Jim

grahampeters

G'day Juice

I think I smell troll. Profile shows a Ford owner!

Cheers

Graham

ateixeira

Yeah, wrong topic, you should go to the "Ford Problems", LOL.

-juice

sandiaman

In addition to some mild shuddering of the clutch during cold weather, I've noticed a creaking sound near the shifter just as I engage 1st gear. It sounds like the creaking of a wooden floor. The dealer was able to replicate the problem, and at one point replaced all the bushings in the shift linkage. Although the repair worked for a week or so, it reappeared soon thereafter. I've only noticed the problem during cold weather and especially if the transmission is cold.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and found a different solution?

Note: the shudder doesn't bother me too much...it goes away after the tranny is warm. But the creaking drives me nuts.

Thanks

hammersley

I can't tell if any creaking I hear is the car, or me!

Cheers!
Paul