Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

ochssk

Has anyone else had this problem?

I have a rattle on rough roads that sound like lose glass or maybe plastic on glass coming from the upper rear of the vehicle. It's not the rear window or the moon roof- I checked those. The dealer keeps greasing the springs on the back tail gate (or whatever you call it) and tried playing with the door hinges. I keep thinking it may be the third brake light. Any ideas???

Oh yeah the car is a 2002 LLBean.

idahodoug

The only thing that should move up and back there would be the hatch on the rubber gasket seal. Try covering the contact surface of the rubber gasket/seal with masking tape to temporarily stop the "squeaky" sound of paint and rubber. Drive over the rough roads and see if you've found the problem.

Then, as a more permanent fix, take some parafin and rub it on the seal. Silicone spray may or may not do the same as it soaks in and sometimes will make the seal grippier and simply change the noise.

IdahoDoug

ateixeira

Good suggestions.

Another is to ride in the cargo area while someone else drives, trying to reproduce the noise. Then just put your finger in the area, until it stops. When it does, you've found your source.

-juice

rob999

I think there was an earlier complaint on this earlier on this board - an internal rattle in the rear seat area. I have a similar intermittent problem like this, too.

Mine seems to be coming from one of the rear seat belt tensioners, I think. Maybe it's one of the pendulums inside the mechanism that lock the belt on impact. Just a guess.

ochssk

Thanks. I thought about riding in the back. I have to find a good rough road and convince my wife to drive while not wearing a seat belt! I thought about the middle shoulder belt which comes out of the ceiling. The sound seems high up. I don't think it's the hatch because of the higher tone to the rattle and I've gone over speed bumps and heard the hatch move which was a totally different sound. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give them all a try.

Steve

ladywclass

well at least about this anyway ... I've heard intermittent rattle from the back of my 2001 outback. I usually seem to hear it from the right of the back seat when I'm driving. It sounds like it used to when there were no retractors in the back seat and one seat belt would rattle against another one when it wasn't being used. I don't hear it often, and I suppose it hasn't bothered me enough to look for it .. lol
Brenda

ironsides1

The rear seat clamp that you release to fold down the rear seat may be the source of your rattle. When I sat in the back trying to locate my rattle, the pressure on the seat kept everything quiet and if you fold the seat flat for more space, I couldn't find the rattle either. I stripped everything out of the spare tire well, lubricated the tailgate, etc.
It was on this board many months ago that someone suggested the rattle source may be the clamp and to wrap a narrow piece of duct tape around the bar that the clamp fastens to in order to tighten the fitting. It solved the problem on two of our wagons.
Try driving with the rear seat back folded to see if the rattle disappears... if so, then use some tape. Good luck.

Jon

subaru4me

I was wondering if anyone else has this going on? I have a 2000 automatic Outback. When the car shifts between second and third gear I get this "click" sound. It's very consistant one dealer can't hear it and the other says it's an exhaust rattle. I would be willing to believe this but it only happens when the car shifts between second and third gear. I've also noticed that of the three shifts this is the least smooth of the bunch. Other than this annoying sound I love my car.

subearu

I believe that click is the multi-plate clutch pack adjusting/locking/whathaveyou. It is a normal sound. It really is just adjusting the power to the 'normal' 80/20 (or 90/10 depending on who you ask) torque split front/back.

As for the shifting hard, the 4EAT can do that too. All normal.

You may want to check out the Owner's Club to read more on all this and perhaps get more responses. http://townhall.edmunds.com/cgi-bin/townhall.subaru

-Brian

snowbelter

My wife's 00 OB has the same transmission "click" you describe, betweem second and third gear. My wife doesn't hear it, but I do. The transmission shifts smoothly. I will talk with the dealer in a week or two when we bring the car in for an oil change.

psg

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but does anyone know the correct torque to seat spark plugs in a 2.2 1995 Legacy L Wagon. I'm not sure if I put the new plugs in tight enough. I didn't want to take a chance on striping them out so I was very conservative.

TIA,

Phil

jfl

Phil, for the 2.5 liter engine, it's 15.19 +/- 2.14 ft-lb. The 2.2 has got to be identical or very close.

The service manual also states, "NOTE: If torque wrench is not available, tighten spark plug until gasket contacts cylinder head; then tighten further 1/4 to 1/2 turns."
HTH,
Jim

peterson10

sources I've found (2000 OB): rear seatbelt buckles rattling against plastic trim (I now keep them buckled even when not in use), cargo cover latches (the thin, gasket-like strips which are suppose to keep the connection tight get compressed after a while; I replaced mine with some felt), center seatbelt retractor (make sure the belt and tab are wedged up in that pocket good and tight, with no contact between the tab and plastic trim).

I still hear the occasional rattle from back there, but its pretty minor and I'm pretty picky.

On that subject, I'm suddenly getting the dreaded "loose heat-shield buzz". Every damn car I've owned in the last fifteen years has had the heat shields come loose; clatter, buzz, zzzzzanggggg! And why? Because manufacturers (even our beloved Subaru) are either too brain-dead to see the virtue of stainless steel fasteners on rust-prone parts OR (and now it gets spooky...evil consiracies everywhere) they design this little time-release annoyance into the car to get you thinking about buying a new one after a few years. Sure, its only a rattling heat shield, its not a critical defect, but its like fingernails on a blackboard after a while. And "fix it"? Forget it! You (or they) can stick as many clamps on there as you like; the deterioration is not going to stop; the buzz is going to return, and soon. So, "take them off", you say. Not wise; that greenhouse gas swapper they call a catalytic converter gets hot enough to ignite grass, paper, etc. You can't escape...we're all doomed!

Rant, rant, rant....thanks folks, I needed to get rid of that.

May you all have a quiet drive home,
YetAnotherDave

ateixeira

I agree - the AWD is in 50/50 mode in 1st and 2nd gear, then switches to 80/20 when it shifts to 3rd. Most people can't detect it, and it's probably not a concern unless it gets louder.

-juice

paisan

That is a rumor or possibly not. What actually happens?

According to my factory manuals, in 1st gear (I'm not sure if it's when placed in "1" or if it also applies when in "D") it increases the line pressure of the ATF and Electronic clutch line pressure. I was starting to read it the other day. This may corespond to a greater rear torque split, but not positive.

-mike

psg

Thanks Jim. Evidently, I was too conservative. My gut feeling is that I will be okay but I hate the idea of a plug popping out and possibly damaging my head. I've had parts stripped out by "mechanics" before on other cars, so I picked up a torque wrench specifically for this purpose. I just didn't know what setting. So do I leave them alone or go back and tighten them up? I wasn't to far off.

Phil

jfl

Phil, tough decision. I don't think they will loosen up and fall out (my plug wires have always been a pain to remove!). But will you be losing compression if they aren't tight enough?

Personally, I'd go through the trouble of bringing them up to spec. My $0.02.

Jim

ateixeira

Leave 'em. The specs are there for a reason.

If you overtighten, they may be hard to get off next time. Did you put any grease on 'em?

-juice

toca

I always thought the split to be 90/10. When the computer senses slippage it can move as much as 50% of the torque to the rear, making it 50/50 like the manual transmission model. The torque is moved back and forth constantly as the computer senses slip and grip. The one exception to the 90/10 rule is if the transmission is placed in REVERSE or 1-LOW the split becomes 50/50.

psg

I used anti-seize lubricant on the threads. Since the plugs are currently torqued slightly below the lower range of spec, they should be easy to loosen up and retighten to spec. Just a matter of finding the time. The worse part of the whole thing was getting the plug wires off. Any tricks? I read something about using dielectric silicone lubricant. Of course, that would only make it easier (maybe?) to remove the wires the next time.

Phil

ateixeira

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had problems removing plug wires. Or plugs, for that matter.

-juice

carl40

I have a 97 outback with the standard 2.5 litre flat top 4. The car has 85,000 miles and has been over heating recently. The needle is very erratic, especially after a long hi way trip. I assumed it was a sticky thermostat. My mechanic told me that he had seen the problem on numerous Outbacks of the same vintage with the 2.5 and that the car probably needed a new head gasket. Apparently this is fairly common? The 2.5 was re designed in '99 to deal with this problem? Just wondering if anyone has heard of this or experienced the same.

idahodoug

A little insight on torque settings that will help you sleep easier without touching the plugs. These values are for a new fastener with a faint film of oil they all get for corrosion resistance when made. The torque setting is the amount of rotating force required to get the amount of "stretch" in the bolt (or sparkplug) to provide a vibration-resistant grip in the seating surface (the place where the crush washer contacts the block). You can see where the slipperier the threads the lower the torque setting required to get the same force on the seating surface.

By putting anti-sieze on your threads, you should use a lower torque setting because obviously there will be less rotating resistance to achieve the correct seating pressure. I'd say if you were within 10-15% of the recommended torque you're right on the mark. Somewhere I have the exact conversion but that's about right if I recall correctly.

Obviously a used fastener that's dry would require MORE than the factory torque setting, but that sets off a whole bunch of problems that can cause the threads to gall or for them to sieze in place over time.

I use anti-sieze on my '97 plugs (and all vehicles, actually) and practise this on every fastener I touch. I also use dielectric grease (nonconductive) in the plug boots to make them a cinch to remove with two fingers 30,000 miles later.

Incidentally, if you use anti-sieze on the wheel studs, DO NOT get any on the outside of the lug nuts where they seat against the wheel. The friction in this area is the seating friction required to prevent loosening.

IdahoDoug

paisan

I have a writeup I did on I-club linked here

http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2088053#post2088053

Hopefully it explains the various systems of AWD and how they operate.

-mike

ateixeira

carl: I'd bet you a brewski that it's the front seals.

Do this - change your timing belt now, and have them replace the front seals. It won't cost you much more because they are basically in the same area, so you've already paid for the labor.

If you have a new timing belt, bummer. Should have done those at the same time.

-juice

storyteller

You are to the mechanical side of cars what Mr Detailer is to the surfaces. I can't keep track of all your tips on fine points of auto maintenance. The IdahoDoug Book of Auto Maintenance would take a long time to read and would contain a lot of information most people don't know or practice.

Speaking for all of us who enjoy these posts . . .

Steve

mrk610

ladywclass

I don't know a thing about it but Doug sure sounds like he does .. lol
Brenda

psg

I like your math. I'm going to leave the plugs alone for now and add dielectric silicone lub to my shopping list.

I don't think I'm brave enough to put anti-seize on the wheel studs.

Thanks again all!

Phil

idahodoug

You are all very kind people to say such a thing. Thanks from the bottom of my heart! Cars and anything vaguely related to them are the light of my life and I've made a living messin' with them for 20 years. Great stuff.

It's midnight here and I just left the garage where I spent 3 hours meticulously installing an "invisible bra" on the Subaru - a second business I'm starting. I'm talking to a big dealer tomorrow to show it to him and pursuade him to contract with me to install 3-5 a week for him. If so, I'll be able to duplicate this at the other dealers in town and make money AND what else? - have yet more fun with cars!!!!

So anyway, after a tense 3 hours I came into bed with the laptop and you folks made my day (that day would now be Friday). Thanks for that.

IdahoDoug

storyteller

IdahoDoug: What,you meticulous? Do you seriously expect us to believe that? ;-)

Steve

snowbelter

Subaru4me reported hearing a "click" as his transmission shifted, sounding exactly like the "click" I heard in my wife's 00 OB. Went to the dealer today and they reported "no abnormal noises heard". Not sure if I heard a "click" today either.

bkaiser1

Hi -- does anyone know the precise location of the outside temp sensor on a 2001 OB? Several months ago, after a particularly muddy off road drive, my outside temp gauge started reading very low when the car gets wet. It's as if the sensor is covered with mud or debris and records the water temp instead of the air temp.

Once the car dries completely, the gauge seems to be quite accurate, but car washes and (presumably) rain lower the readout temp to far below the outside temp. It usually reads around 60 degrees after a car wash, which is pretty close to water temp at the hose.

It's not a big deal, but if the sensor is easy to find, I'd like to check it to see if it's covered in mud. Any thoughts?

Brian

paisan

My SVX one is right in front of the radiator on the verticle beam. Yours might be too.

-mike

idahodoug

This would be an interesting thing to hear about - keep us posted. If your sender probe has a glob of mud on it, I'm wondering if the subsequent prolonged evaporation would act to knock off a few degrees. I'll be surprised, frankly as there's not really much chance that the ideal circumstances would exist to capture this cooling effect.

I've heard of muddy probes causing a warmer probe tip due to a glob of mud absorbing radiant engine heat. But never the opposite. However, I believe evaporation can cause cooling *slightly* below the ambient air temp.

So, let us know.

IdahoDoug

bkaiser1

I'll check around and see if I can find it. The car's at the dealer today getting a new window regulator but I forgot to ask them about the temp sensor...and they don't seem amenable to any additional work today. I was planning on having the oil changed, too, while the car was in getting the window fixed and the service guy informed me that they would not do an oil change because I didn't tell them last week when I made the appointment that I would also need that done. It's a friggin' oil change! It takes 5 minutes!

Anyway, I also asked them to check the clutch again since it sank to the floor last week and refused to return to the top of its stroke for a few minutes (in traffic, of course) and he informed me that they don't do "powertrain work" on Mondays and I'd have to come back. I swear if there was another dealer anywhere near me I'd never go back to Lithia Subaru...

I'll let you know if I find anything out about that sensor, though! Thanks,
Brian

megawatt1

I have a "00 OB, auto 4 cyl. 40K, I have always noticed the hesitation when nailing it from around 25-30mph. Dealer said they could not find the problem. I too think it is dangerous, especially if someone who is not familiar with it is driving the car and doesn't plan that 2 seconds ahead (but who does?).
Every other auto I have had or driven would give an almost immediate downshift in response to throttle position. I would like to know if anyone has been able to have this problem corrected. Thanks.

ateixeira

Try easing into the throttle gradually instead of stomping on it.

If you don't like that idea, consider resetting the ECU (*). Then drive aggressively for the first few miles, so the tranny learns that you want immediate downshifts and the quickest acceleration, vs. gas mileage or smoothness.

-juice

* disconnec the negative battery terminal on a cold engine, wait 30 minutes, reconnect, start and idle until warm

reblack_jr

Sorry for the double post but I would like some help.
Does anyone have any info on the cause of water dripping from the overhead console (location of sun roof switch and switchable two lights)? I posed this question last year but it just started to drip again now that it is raining heavily in the northeast. I seem to remember there were some suggestions that water was building up and overflowing the seal because a drain may be clogged. Help!
I tried to gently lift out off the plastic cover that mates with the headliner to get a peek at the situation. The plastic did not budge and thought I might ask those who know before I break something.
Other than dripping and the accumulation of water in the switch assy the headliner got locally damp when it rained.
Thanks for the help!

dcheng

Hi everyone. I have a 98 Legacy wagon GT. The light behind the climate control panel has burned out so I can't see the outlines of the buttons or the fan level numbers. However, the green LEDs are still working.

Anyone know if this light bulb can be replaced, or do I have to replace the whole unit? I can't see the button outlines at night. I was able to unscrew the unit from the dash but couldn't take it apart any further, plus I couldn't figure out how to remove the half-ring clamp that holds in the temp control cable. And I was afraid I couldn't get the clamp back on later ...

Thanks
David

jfl

I think someone posted before that this is caused by a clogged drain hole. Thought they are near the front corners of the sun roof and drain down to the front wheel wells.

dude

David, got the same problem on the same car, Quite a coincidence, I'm afraid. I can email you instructions that were sent to me if you want, they don't have pictures though.

idahodoug

Go to the thread 'Subaru Crew - General Maintenance and Repair II'. A discussion about this very vehicle and part is on there from the last few days.

IdahoDoug

dude

You know this is very strange. We've had 3 cars in our family and one of them was 13 years old and I've never had a bulb burned out like that. I've had my share of headlights and tailights burned out, but not this one. Could it be that Subaru put some kind of defective bulbs? I know this probably doesn't deserve a big fuss but still.....

dcheng

Thanks much to dude and idahodoug. I found Russ' web page instructions and I should be good to go. This forum is a great resource!

ateixeira

Now that is how this topic is supposed to operate, nice. :-)

-juice

haemon

... also (see previous post), as a new Subaru owner, what problems might I anticipate encoutering with my Subaru. Again, I have an '01 Legacy GT, Limited Sedan with 32k miles. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

hashman

Anyone notice a door rattle when the windows down and closing it? I just purchased 00' Outback with 36K miles on it. Has Power windows, doors, winter package. Love the car. Just had it re aligned (pulled to the right). Suggestions? or is this normal?

originalbitman

Normal. Due to the frameless doors (no frame around the windows).

bit

ateixeira

Are the windows half way down? Then it can happen, but with the windows up none of the Subies in my family rattle.

-juice