Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

jerrys2

Thanks for the input on the brake, pulsating problem. Rotors were machined again and problem and tire vibration is gone (also had tires rebalanced). if rotors must be replaced down the road I will report back.

Jerry

jay_24

It could cost $500-600. Mine was right at $500. It really depends on what they do. I called 3 subie dealers and each was different in what they do.
Example: A transmission drain/fill is about half the price of a flush.

--jay

ateixeira

Great news, Jerry.

After a hard stop the key is get off the brakes, shift into neutral or park if you have to. The pads and rotor cool at different rates, so it you stay on the brakes after they're red-hot, they could warp.

-juice

rob999

I've got a dash rattle behind the airbag module ('01 Outback) that's driving me nuts. The airbag module seems to pop out about 1/2" with no trouble, but then some sort of hidden clips stop further progress. I don't want to force anything, but how do you remove the module completely?

bat1161

Thanks guys for a lesson in brake wear, and rotors. You definitely get an education here!

Mark

originalbitman

This month's R&T has quite a nice discussion about brake wear in the Technical Correspondence section. Talks about how different sorts of brake use effects brake wear like long downhill grades etc. Good info about heat build up and disipation. Unfortunately it is not online yet.

bit

holiday3

I think my Subaru Legacy's brakes are kind of squishy or spongy. The pads have about 10K more miles on them in the back and 15-20 more on the front but wondering if all subaru's have that same spongy feeling? It is very different than any other car's brakes that I have owned.

ateixeira

You're feeling the dual-stage brake booster.

With light pedal pressure, only one booster kicks in. This allows for smooth stops and saves on pad wear. Slam the pedal and both kick in for full stopping power. Stopping distances tend to be short on Subies.

The trade-off is a less linear feel, basically what you are describing. But drive a rental Cavalier, for instance, with its touchy brakes, and after you nearly get car-sick you might be glad you have two-stage boosters.

-juice

holiday3

Thanks for the info!

subaru_team

I sent you an e-mail. I hope the information helps you and your friend.

Thanks!

Patti

danac4

Hello, Need some clues why my 96 Ob SW (automatic) has a pulsing/thumping sensation around sharp curves and parking lots. Seems to come from the front wheels when I press the gas pedal. Gradual curves and straight drives are fine and it brakes smoothly. Tires show no excessive wear. Am I creating more damage by driving it like this? Hopefully it can be remedied at home by spouse mechanic but we need somewhere to start. Thanks for any help!

subaru_team

More information might be helpful. How many miles on your Subaru? When was it last serviced and what was done? How many miles on the tires and have you had one recently replaced? I look forward to the information. I'm sure the folks here can help. Has it been to the dealer lately?

Thanks!

Patti

jfl

Does it only happen when the steering wheel is at full lock left or right?

Jim

hypov

felt through the steering wheel or resonating through the car? And like Jim asked, when steering wheel is at full lock?
Just trying to get more info for the Techies

The only time I'd experienced such with my '98 OB [deceased], doing what you've done, was during wet conditions when the sidewalls rolled under. Felt like the ABS kicked in but I was on the gas and not the brakes.
I do also vaguely remember the same when Auto-Xing on the 205/70-15 tires when the sidewalls rolled, but you couldn't be doing any kamikazi turns in a parking lot could you ;-)

-Dave

eric102

It could be a u-joint on one of the front axles. You would first notice it when the wheels are turned at their extremes.

Eric

hashman

anyone know where I can get a "shop" service manual? For 00' Outback. Would appreciate.

danac4

Hi Sub Crew and other helpful posters, My 96 Ob has 78488 miles and tires were new at 58000 and haven't been changed. There is no unusual tire wear on either front and back.Bought it used with just oil seals need replacing, no other work has been done. Thumping happens on either right or left turns ( on dry or wet pavement) The turns aren't even real tight(full lock) but thumping is worse when parking in tight lots. When turning on corners WITHOUT stepping on the gas there is no thumping, so I'm thinking this must be a clue to what is going on. I think this thumping started gradually and is getting stronger
over time. There is no vibration anytime anywhere when driving or
braking. The thumping does seem to resonate in the front section underneath. Hope these clues help. Thanks again..

kens

I wonder if the thumping is the AWD drivetrain binding. A friend of mine had that happen to his Forester, but it was with the 5-MT (different AWD system). However, the symptoms sound very similar.

KEn

jfl

To my knowledge, no one publishes an independent service manual. The factory manual is 8 or 9 volumes and costs about $300. Fortunately, they are available individually.

There's a listing of the volumes posted in the Subaru Maintenance & Repair thread in January and again in October. Let us know if there is some specific information you're looking for and I might be able to tell you what volume it's in.

Jim

idahodoug

Dana,

You don't mention any tire rotations in the 20,000 miles since putting the tires on, so I'll assume since it was not at the top of your mind when you posted that you may not be as diligent about it as some are. Don't take that wrong - just being my annoyingly analytical self.

That said, I suspect the front tires are more worn out than the rears. Which means they're slightly smaller in diameter. Which means on a turn the AWD system interprets the fronts as slipping and tightens up the clutch sending power to the rear. On dry pavement, this will cause something called axle windup.

Don't go out and look at the tires and decide by eyeballing them that I'm wrong, either. If they're .25 inches in circumference different then they're out of Subaru's spec and even an experienced tire man cannot see this difference - no way.

To test this theory, put the front tires on the rear and vice versa. If the problem abates, you know you've been a bad girl and have not been paying enough attention to tire rotations front to rear. You are correct that applying power and hearing the noise make for a clue - this jibes with my analysis. Bet your mileage has also dropped a bit as well, though you'd have to be pretty good at checking to note it.

IdahoDoug

hashman

I want to make sure this puppy is in top shape. All the time. 300 bucks isn't justifiable. I like to know how to check and change the drivetrain fluids at transaxles. Are they still using 90W in these? My first AWD. 37500 mi..

brad5280

Sorry for the duplication..... I wanted to cover the two places I originally posted this issue to be sure people saw this.
--------------------------------------------
AS STATED IN POST #525 UP-DATE: Airbag distance (post #452 ) by brad5280 Nov 26, 2002 in "SUBARU PROBLEMS"

THANKS to all who responded with their comments and help on my friend's concerns with air bag distance and gas pedal discomfort.

The following is edited from a direct e-mail I got from Subaru Dealer rep, Patti Mickel. This was most helpful and is a great example of the dedication Subaru has for resolving owner's concerns (but you already knew that, right?)

My friend is going to a local place to retrofit (add spacer blocks) to brake & gas pedals. She will file for the reimbursement. BTW, the spacer blocks will cost $400 installed.

Thanks again,
Brad
======================================
I saw your post on Edmunds. I'm sorry about your friends problem and please convey my concern.
1st - please ask her to call 1-800-SUBARU3 and relay the information on how she was treated by the dealership. We take issues like this very seriously.

2nd - there are places that can modify the vehicle though out the U. S. Please check the yellow pages. If that doesn't work, our Customer Service Representative can call the dealer for a recommendation. Subaru does offer a vehicle modification program for folks with a handicap or disability. If your friend can get a note from a Doctor stating that the change needs to be made to accommodate her for her stature or for her leg/back problem, she will be reimbursed for up to $500 for the change. It shouldn't cost more
than that anyway. Once again, the Customer Service Rep. can help her with this.

Patti Mickel
Quality Control/Training Leader
Customer Dealer Services

danac4

Thanks Doug! your analysis sounds brilliant to me and you are right, I have neglected the tire rotation thinking "they look ok to me". And yep, my mileage does seem to be not so great when I notice the fuel gage dipping after a few miles. I will get those tires rotated and post later. Thank you everybody else for your imput and if this doesn't work I'll check into the other possibilities. Zoom Zoom

jfl

Volume 1 of the Subaru Service Manual covers most routine maintenance. It's about $16.

However, I'll point out two things: 1) it's spotty in a few areas - it includes bleeding brakes but not changing pads; 2) the manual transmission gear oil amount is wrong, follow the OWNER'S manual. Otherwise, it's good information and I'm glad I got it.

Jim

nick_slc

I've got a 97 Outback wagon. I replaced the clutch last summer at 59,000 miles and now at 63000 miles it sure is acting like it might need another clutch: shifting is not very smooth etc. This is the only Subaru I've ever owned and in my home state of UT, you can't throw a rock without hitting another one. I can't believe they're this popular with a recurring problem like this. I've owned Toyotas in the past and replaced clutches around 110,000 miles and then maybe again at 160,000 miles. I don't think that I'm suddenly aging and riding the clutch. Is this a common problem with this model? and do you think there's a dealer out there that will create an incentive like my local coffee shop and give me my 10th clutch free?

hashman

Subaru publications wants $32 for volume 1. Where are you getting a deal? $375 for the set of eight. Am I looking at inflation since you purchased yours? wow! Thanks for the info.

bkaiser1

After only 4K miles, I'd hate to think that the clutch is bad again, even for these notoriously awful clutches that Subaru uses. Take it back to the dealer ASAP -- maybe they are slightly more motivated/able than my crummy dealer to diagnose problems.

The clutch in my '01 OB shudders so bad some days that it sounds like the doors are going to pop open from the stress...40K miles and counting, still no fix. My dealer says it's normal...

Since it's a new clutch in your car, I'd really hope the dealer (or whoever did the clutch) would take another look at it. Good luck...you'll need it.

Brian

jfl

Try these two places, most add 10% for shipping & handling:
Liberty Subaru (NJ) 888 782-9493

Auburn Subaru (WA) 866 528-5282
aka: 1stsubaruparts.com (I ordered parts from them at very good prices.)

I re-posted information from another member "bigfrank" in the Subaru Crew - Maintenance & Repair thread (post #5904) about the manuals. That's how I learned what the "fair" price was. Good Luck.

Jim

subaru_team

and ask them to take a look at the assembly. It may be something else. What dealer did the replacement? If you are not happy with their services, call 1-800-SUBARU3 and open a case. The Rep. will need to look at the repair order from the intial repair and we can take it from there.

Thanks!

Patti

emmaline

I posted earlier that my dealer had advised me to check in mid-November, and Subaru would have a solution for the shuddering clutch on my 2001 Legacy Wagon (I've had the problem from the beginning; my car now has about 10,000 miles). When I called, I was told to call back the first of December. I also received a letter from Subaru, saying the engineers in Japan are working on this problem. Meanwhile, the shudder continues. I mostly notice it in the morning when I first start up the engine. I like my Subaru...I do not like the shuddering clutch...Emma

subaru_team

I know that waiting is frustrating, but it is something that our engineers are working on. I appreciate your patience. Hang in there! When a fix is available, I'll make sure I post it here.

Patti

leo2633

Patti,

That's good to hear. I had the clutch in my '01 Forester replaced in the spring at around 29K and now, at 46K, the chatter/shutter has returned. I'll be glad to hear when a permanent fix is available, and will be watching the boards. No problem with the clutch in my wife's '02 Outback (so far...knocking on wood). Happy Thanksgiving!

Len

toboggan

Check out Amazon.com for a Haynes 1990-1998 OB/Brighton repair manual.

Subaru Legacy Automotive Repair Manual: Models Covered: All Legacy Models 1990 Through 1998: Includes Legacy Outback and Legacy Brighton (Haynes au...)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=pd_ir_sr_h/103-2619163-6177426

Toboggan (need that white stuff for my Blzzaks!)

toboggan

AARRGG! Tried to edit my previous message but got an error message about over 115 characters.

The manual costs $13.97, new.

Toboggan

emmaline

I appreciate your response to my post about the shuddering/chattering clutch problem in my Legacy Wagon. I look forward to it being taken care of. I've come to love driving my Subaru...it is a fun car, and the safety features make me feel good about passing it on to my son in a few years. I have only driven Hondas and Toyotos for the last 30 years, so am holding Subaru up to what I had come to expect from them....including the first 100,000 miles trouble-free. Please don't let me down. Emma

ratbag1

WE PURCHASED OUR '96 LEGACY WAGON NEW AND HAVE HAD VERY FEW PROBLEMS, JUST GENERAL MAINTENANCE.
BUT, OVER THE LAST 6 MONTHS WE HAVE HAD AN INTERMITTANT, VERY FRUSTRATING PROBLEM. WHEN TRAVELLING, USUALLY UPHILL & USUALLY AT HIGHWAY SPEED WE EXPERIENCE A LACK OF POWER OR HESITATION. ONE TIME I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF TRAFFIC AND I COULD BARELY KEEP THE CAR IDLING. THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT WILL COME ON FLASHING THEN STAY ON FOR A DAY OR TWO BEFORE GOING OUT. TO DATE WE HAVE:
-CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS & LEADS
-CHANGED THE FUEL FILTER
-COIL
-FUEL INJECTOR
-REAR OXYGEN SENSOR
IN TOTAL WE HAVE SPENT OVER $1000 AND ARE BACK TO SQUARE ONE. WE HAVE BE DEALING WITH 2 DIFFERENT SERVICE DEPT. AT 2 DIFFERENT SUBARU DEALERS AND NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.
THE DEALERS DON'T SEEM TO BE TOO WORRIED ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEM.
AM GETTING VERY PO'D AND TOTALY LOSING FAITH IN SUBARUS!

mn_pat

how many miles on your 96 legacy?

ratbag1

It has 142,000 Km on it now but, the problem started about 6 months ago. There was also an industion service performed after the oxygen sensor was replaced. The dealer wants in back in to see if they can figure it out, but we feel as if we are funding some kind of training mission.
I guess we really don't have too much of a choice as we feel the car has become undependable. We were contemplating trading the car in before we started having problems and now we are debating whether or not we would want another Subaru.

paisan

1 bad subaru, and one with what is probably a very minor problem, shouldn't sour you to the whole brand. Have you tried a different dealer? That would have been my first instinct after the 1st dealer couldn't solve it.

-mike

ratbag1

-MIKE: READ MESSAGE #1005.

paisan

Sorry bout that.

I very rarely read msgs that have all caps on the internet.

Why code did they pull when you initially brought it in? That should be a place to start. Was it a mis-fire? (based on the repairs it seems that it was) It could be incorrect cap/rotor I had a similar problem when a place gave me the wrong cap/rotor for a car. Perhaps a vaccum leak?

-mike

friendly_jacek

How about a good, honest, independent mechanic with import experteese?
Sometines dealer mechanics place too much importance in engine codes (or lack thereof).
Just a thought, I could be wrong.

ateixeira

I'd do a throttle-body service. Our old 626 V6 was hesitating so badly you would stall at times. They force pressurized solvent through, and clean it up nicely. After that the V6 was peppier than ever! Huge difference. Worth a try.

Haynes are available after all, eh? Still, I have one for the Miata and it's useful by not good enough all by itself. I refer to Miata.net as well, and actually get more complete info from them. It is nice to have all the capacities and torque specs handy.

Zoom zoom? Someone else also own a Miata? ;-)

Though nowadays our Subies outnumber our Mazdas.

If a brand new clutch with just 4k miles behaves like that, my guess is your flywheel needs resurfacing. It's not the clutch at all, IMO.

Generally, try using low revs with the clutch and smooth operation. It has to absorb the differences in speed between the drivetrain and the wheels, so go easy on your clutch, especially before it's fully warm.

49k miles on my original clutch, with only a slight chatter when very cold/damp.

-juice

idahodoug

Sounds like you're on the right track to solve this. I'd check that the catalytic converter is not clogged. Sometimes the internal plates get rusted and come loose - plugging the converter when at high flow sustained RPMs like you describe on a hill. You might detect this by lifting the car a bit and thumping it with a rubber mallet or something else soft and heavy. Listen for internal rattling of loose parts. If this is it, the dealer will never figure it out. Also, has he checked your fuel injection system pressures?

IdahoDoug

skipper9

Owned 1981 (GT)5 sp. wagon, 1991 Legacy 5 spd. wagon, and now a 2003 Legacy 5 spd. Special Edition wagon.
In the 2003, I noticed clutch chatter or a valve tap when cold, disappears in 3-4 minutes. Is this normal?
Also, what is the thought on the Added Security Gold Plus extended service contract backed by Subaru? With this early problem, it may be wise to consider.

emmaline

I paid $700 or $750 for an extended service warranty (100,000 mi) on my 1990 Toyoto Corolla Wagon when I purchased it new. This was a very good car, with no unusual problems. Until at 98,000 miles, it had a crack in the manifold. I tried to contact the insurance company. They were defunct. No forwarding address,etc. Since then, I have been told that the people who make the most money in dealerships are those who sell extended warranties. I will not buy extended warranties. I would hope that Subaru and other companies will be honorable and back up their product. Emma

ladywclass

I bought one on a vehicle that was worthless and one that paid for itself and more ....
However, I also had a friend whose father was purchasing a vehicle. Right down to the "extended warranty sale". When the salesman listed all that it would cover "breaking", the man said .. if YOU'RE that concerned about your product, I'm not buying it .... and walked out ....

ateixeira

If you buy, I would definitely get the manufacturer's extended warranty. I got one, and find that the roadside assistance, peice of mind, and improved resale value are worth it to me.

If the powertrain is smooth once it warms up, you're OK, though.

-juice

fibber2

Extended warranties are offered by vehicle mfgrs, and private, fly-by-night psudo insurance companies. I think you now know which one to avoid. Unless you were unlucky enough to have bought a Daewoo, I doubt that many could ever claim to have been stiffed by the vehicle mfgr.

I have bought 6 and leased 3 new cars. You do not need one on a lease if you are careful to keep the lease terms within the warranty. Overall, I came out very slightly behind on the 3 times I bought extended warrantees, got killed on the one I didn't take. Your luck may vary.

After waiting about a year to see if my two new cars are going to be 'keepers', I decided to buy the Honda warranty for an excellent price off the internet from a dealer down south. I am still shopping for the right price on the Subaru, but will probably eventually do it also.

Agreed, it may not be the worlds best investment, especially not at or near the list price your dealer probably quoted. But for me the peace of mind at fixing my liability, especially if the price is right, was worth it. And as Juice made the case, it can reduce your auto club cost, and add to resale value.

Steve

subwagoneer

I'm new to the board, so first, hello hello to everyone!

I'm hoping someone out there can tell me I'm not crazy that my Subwagon is not driving as smooth as it used to. The sway bar by the front driver's side tire came off a few weeks ago. We had it repaired and ever since the car drives harsh with a lot of road vibration. Lets just say there's a lot of jiggling going on! It's driving me nuts, but the dealer's service shop said they checked it out and "all the nuts and bolts are tight." ?? I'm no mechanic, but I was expecting something a little more thorough.

Any ideas or experiences with why my car has lost it's smooth ride? Thanks for any help!