Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

nygreg

First, which year and model? Second, was the car riding OK before the bar detached? If so, it only makes sense that it wasn't installed properly or a different bar was installed. Since you mentioned dealer, I would hope you have the right bar. How about the rubber guides? Are they installed. Maybe a look see yourself would point to something obvious (sounds like it might be). Keep us posted, and welcome. I'm sure others will chime in.

Greg

paisan

Sounds like the bar was disconnected all along or loose all along, so it was nice and "soft" now that they tightened it down in place it is "hard" but that is how it's supposed to be for handling purposes.

-mike

subwagoneer

Thanks for the quick response! Greg, it's a 2000 legacy outback and it drove wonderfully before. I'll take a look for the rubber guides. Where would they be located in proximity to the tire and sway bar?

I'm thinking you're right, Mike, in that it will ride more harsh with the sway bar fixed. Hearing other sub owners talk about the smooth ride though, and given how much vibration I'm feeling, I'm not sure it's suppose to be this hard. I'm thinking of taking another subwagon for a test drive to compare. Feeling the bumps in the road isn't what's bad, it's the vibration or bouncing feeling.

jfl

Consider test driving a similar Subie at the dealer, if it's much smoother than yours, get the service advisor to do a comparison ride with you.

The road vibration you describe sounds abnormal.

Good luck,

Jim

nygreg

My 01 OB has a firm ride, but absorbs bumps very well. No vibration. Follow the bar along from one wheel to another and look for anything obvious. The bar will go through 2 bushings (rubber) where it attaches to the body.

Greg

paisan

Yeah it's hard to diagnose some problems especially Vibrations over the net. One man's "firmer ride" is another man's "vibrations all over the place". Luckily you can test drive a similar vehicle @ a dealer (2000 is similar to 2002/2003) to get a feel for it.

-mike

subwagoneer

Thanks for the help and advice guys. I'll check for the rubber guides and let you how the test drive goes. The dealer has a 2000 OB. If it's the same, maybe I'll consider breaking that sway bar again.... just kidding.

luck11

I am cross posting this from the Maintenance and Repair Thread - Subaru Problems:

"I have a 2000 OB that has a persistent burning rubber smell. It occurs when the car has been driven and is warm, and very noticeable when it comes to a stop. My dealer has replaced my valve cover gasket a few times, the first time seemed to work. They did so again a few weeks ago but the smell persists.

The service manager told me this morning that several OBs have come in with the same symptom and they have not been able to diagnose the problem. Subaru Canada has been aware and same deal...no solution. They questioned whether it is a problem with the catalytic converter, but they are not sure.

I did have my car undercoated, but the smell of the Krown product burning off is very distinctly different, and regardless, the burning rubber smell was evident before I had the Krown applied. The Krown "burning off" smell was gone in about a week. It can't be the original undercoat....my car is 3 years old.

I notice that ZROCK posted back on Nov 1 regarding the same problem. I did not see whether he responded with a resolution.

I have had a few too many little problems with my Subaru, and question whether I will get another when time comes next year to get a new vehicle, even though warranty has covered them all. This "smell" problem may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Any thoughts or suggestions?"

BTW, I also notice that several people in this thread have reported this same smell. Wait and see when I pick up my car today to see if is in fact oil leaking from one of the seals.

I wonder of Subaru of America is aware of this problem and whether it is as common as it seems it is in this forum?

Thanks.

paisan

It's probably a boot leaking onto an exhaust pipe.

-mike

luck11

Not sure it is...dealer just called....they checked it head to toe....for leaks of all kinds including oil, coolant, exhaust.....can't seem to find it. Are the CV boots close enough to the exhaust to have grease/lube leak and cause this?

BTW, extremely disappointed with Subaru Canada. Go to their website, NO PHONE NUMBER, NO FAX, NO E-MAIL, only snail mail address. Hello?...we're going into 2003 folks....heard of electronic mail? I had to call Subaru of America to get the Cdn tel #. What a joke! I guess I could of called the dealer but that's really not the point. This demonstrates the lack of interest in providing customer service.

So finally spoke to Subaru Canada rep. Not helpful at all and his attitude seem like one who is very disinterested in providing any service. Asked why they had no contact info for customer service on their web-site. His response " don't know, not my decision". I felt like I was wasting his time by keeping him on the phone! I wish we had a "Patti of Canada"!!!!

Next year, my OB is being traded in, as I had originally intented. I will also be in the market for a 2nd car. I was seriously considering getting the Baja for me, the new OB for my wife. After this eye-opening event, however, I will seriously re-consider purchasing another Subaru. Period. Unfortunate, because generally, I have been very happy with the service from my dealer.

fibber2

I drive an '02 OBW with 10k miles. I too have the burning smell, but it usually only shows up after 'spirited driving'. I have looked around but see nothing amiss. I suspect that something that never burned off at time zero rises in temperature after running the car harder than usual. I smell it at the back edge of the hood (cowl area), sometimes around the drivers wheel well. It usually goes away a few moments after engine shutdown. I don't like it, but have not done much about it yet.

Steve

paisan

Your inner CVs come out right above the exhaust pipes or in the same vicinity. So a few drops of grease from them onto the exhaust pipe will cause a burning smell. I get a burning smell on my subies when I push em hard but they are all at least 10 years old so I'm used to the minor oil leaks from em.

-mike

fibber2

I understand your concern and disappointment with SoC customer service. But if you have been generally happy with the car, why the harsh stance about not buying another? In general, customer service is terrible at all car companies. Maybe their weakest link overall as a class. Fortunately for us, SoA seems to be above average.

Why not try another dealership? This is an illusive problem, as you have seen from the posts. I don't think anyone is intentionally avoiding trying to help you. Give it a chance...

Steve

ateixeira

A sway bar will limit body roll, but the springs are still the same so it shouldn't really make the ride much stiffer.

Make sure the rubber bushings are lubed up with lithium grease. You'll see a black bar connecting one side of the suspension with the other, held in place by two rubber bushings. It's easy to find if you take the wheels off, but you can also crawl under.

Check your tire pressures, make sure it's not something else. 40psi would make the ride rock hard. Try 30-33 or so.

For the smell, I'm with mike - check your axle boots. Our 626 tore one and grease spilled all over the wheel well, tire, and even shorted out the oxygen sensor, triggering a check engine light!

-juice

fibber2

act to limit differential travel between the two wheels they are connected to. So if you drive over a wide dip and both springs compress and rebound evenly, the sway bar will have negligible effect (other than some slight dampening effect due to bushing and linkage friction). But if the bump is one sided, the sway bar retards action like a stiffer spring. It effectively adds a torsion bar spring in parallel with the coil spring. So yes, it can make the suspension seem stiff, especially if you were use to driving with it disabled/missing.

IIRC, OBW tire pressure is 29 front, 30 rear (???). It seems to strike a good balance between comfortable ride and decent handling. Adjust to suit your taste, but don't go under this for safety sake...

Steve

subearu

I believe those doing rock crawling (Jeeps and whatnot) disconnect the swaybar(s) to get better suspension travel for articulation.

Do you have your repair order handy? Does it list any parts used or just labor?

-Brian

irish24

We also have an 00 outback and tho my husband usually drives it, I noticed last summer the sway bar was broken. It was fixed under warranty and we don't have the vibration that you are talking about at all.However, I did notice a rattling noise that was driving me crazy...I drive it maybe once every 2 weeks...it turned out to be a loose screw behind the dash that had nothing to do w the sway bar. If it drives differently than you are used to I would have them fix it. If you aren't satisfied, next oil change try another dealer and give them a shot at it. We have moved often and I have found that sometimes I have to take our cars to a different dealer than I usually use to get a certain problem fixed.

I know what each of our cars sound like and feel like. If things change, I try to get it taken care by the next oil change. Good luck

toboggan

don't work on my '98 OBW. Turn signals work just fine. Checked the fuse (#30) on the engine compartment - it was OK. Haven't checked the flasher unit under the dash yet. Does the switch on dash just "pop" out? Would like to avoid paying "big" bucks at the dealer for them to trouble-shoot.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Toboggan

luck11

thanks mike, I'll ask the service manager if he checked the boots....if not, I'll bring it in again.

Don't get me wrong, I like my OB....actually I love it. What concerns me is the many things that have gone wrong....will this continue after my warranty is up? Also, I have no problems with my dealer....service manager has been dealing with me directly and he is very capable. He told me he has been in touch with Sub tech line in Canada (who has known of this prob for over a year) and they can't seem to diagnose the problem. Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but frankly, I was a bit shocked at Suburu Canada's attitude. I guess I have been spoiled by my dealer, and had higher expectations.

I may try another dealer in town re the smell. Problem is, my 3 yr bumper to bumper runs out on the 28th of this month, I believe. If I cannot get in before, will another dealer still repair under warranty if the problem has been identified through my dealer and not theirs?

BTW....I changed my cabin filters again...talk about disgusting. They were grey-black. Granted, I built a new house in developing subdivision, so dust levels were higher than normal. New, they are pure white. Juice will recall the side by side pics of used vs new I took last year...he had posted them on his site. This year, they were worse. Its amazing the c$%p we breath when sitting in our vehicles! Especially up here in winter when you can often cut the salt dust clouds with a knife. Considering my 4 yr old son is often in the car with us, cabin filtration will be a definite prerequisite for any future vehicles!!

hammersley

Toboggan: On my 97, the flasher unit is under the dash, right behind the hood release. Remove the dash panel that runs under the steering column for access. The turn signals and hazard warnings may use two separate flasher modules. If not, I'd suspect the switch, as you do. Not sure how to access that rascal - I defer to the experts on that one!

Cheers!
Paul

sibbald

I have also had a burning smell since day one with my 00 O.B. It now has over 60,000 k. and the smell was still there this week. It is only noticeable when driving up to Mt. Washington which is from sea level to 4200 ft. in 18 k. The dealer has checked it on three different occasions, but no sign of any leak etc. My friend who also has a 00 O.B. and a place at Mt. Wash. has the same strong burning smell.

I have decided to just let it go and worry about things I can do something about. ;-)

Although, it would be interesting to know if this is just another Canadian thing like metric, cold winters, a devalued dollar, eh.

Tom

lprofesor

Well at least I'm not alone. My Outback Wagon has 80K on it (3.5 yrs old. I'm on the road a lot) and I started to notice the burning smell right after an oil change, and new tires. I thought that I was just an oil spill somewhere, but it's not consistent at all. I drove this car 2.5hrs on the highway this a.m. w/no problem. The car sat for 12hrs, then I drove back 2.5hrs and when I pulled into my garage there was the smell again WITH a bit of smoke. This is first for the smoking. I guess I'm headed to the dealer on Monday. I've not had any problems with the car up to this point, so I guess, it's just time.

nygreg

Noticed an antifreeze / maple syrup smell recently and noticed my coolant low. Checked under the car today and found an antifreeze leak by the rear left part of the engine. Could not find the source though. Could be the head gasket, however, no antifreeze in the oil that I can tell and no white smoke from the tailpipe. Saw some drips this morning after driving a little, but that was it for the day. Will have the dealer check it out (33k miles).

Greg

toboggan

have made an appointment with the dealer for this Monday morning to look at a recurring rattle in the gearshift lever mechanism. Think I'll have them check the 4-ways at that time.

Toboggan
'98 OBW Limited w/5-speed

cmilner

I didn't see any other postings on this, but occasionally (and frustratingly) the rear gate on my 1995 Legacy wagon will not unlatch. It seems to do it on a random basis, and the problem fixes itself on a random basis as well. I've met one fellow in my hometown with the same problem on his '95 Legacy. Has anyone else encountered this, and what did you do to fix it?

I've also got problems with leaky door seals and excessive tire noise. And I hate the cup holders. HATE THEM!

But all in all, it's been a nice versatile vehicle for my little family.

cptplt

have had the same problem 3x on my 98. Twice it sorted itself out in a day. Once I took it to the dealer, though to be honest, after having decided I would take it there I nver tried again to open it! Maybe it would have opened on its own, because after they "fixed" it, the service manager was very reluctant to say exactly what it was that had gone wrong but they fixed it in minutes!Had probably fixed itself like the other 2 times and they thought I was nuts!
Tire noise - get decent tires!

rob309

What does this sound like ?
i start my ob in the morning after being garaged overnight, shift from Park to Reverse, reverse out of the garage, shift from Reverse to Drive, and THEN there is a delay in DRIVE engaging, typically a couple of seconds, somethings between 10-30 seconds , then engages with a thud. BUT it doesnt happen all of the time.

I mentioned the problem to my subaru dealer, and they supposedly couldnt reproduce the problem.

If it was a manual gearbox, id say the clutch was slipping, but im ignorant of auto transmissions.

any views would be appreciated.

mrk610

When was he last time you had the tranny serviced. Could only need new clean fluid.

Mike k

rob309

the car has 70000 kilometres (40000 miles ) on it. I have owned it for the last 15000. The cars records show that it has been serviced regularly by the subaru dealer i purchased it off.

I asked the subaru service department the question today, and the transmission fluid change is part of the 50000Km service, so i would guess the fluid has been changed within the last 12-18 months.

svcraig

I am new to the Town Hall and have a couple of questions. I originally posted this on the Legacy/Outback board then noticed this board so copying the questions here and offer apologies on the misplacement.

I have a 97 GT sedan and have two annoying problems. First is all three heater control lights are burned out. I tried to take the unit out from the dash to replace but could not access the plugs. Do I have to remove the whole dash? The second is the rear window defogger does not work although the indicator light in the switch comes on....any guidance/suggestions on repair? I have restored a 69 GTO so have a fair mechanical inclination.

Our other car is a 96 Outback wagon with 110,000 mi (owned since 98k). Recently it started chattering during slow, tight turns (like at a corner but not on a road curve). Our mechanic (Subaru specialist) says that the tranny is not disengaging the AWD as it should so needs replacement (cost = $5k). He said this is can happen in pre-2000 Outbacks, especially 95-96 models, because the added clearance + rim dia are a strain on the tranny. He is a reputable shop (this car's previous owner, a high-tech machine shop owner, swore by him & so far he has done us right) so don't believe he is blowing smoke. Curious if others have heard about this as well as other comments.

As a replacement, we are considering the '03 Forester XS. Any feedback?

subearu

You may also want to try looking in the Subaru Crew topics, which you can get to from here: http://townhall.edmunds.com/cgi-bin/townhall.subaru

-Brian

foresterbean

Rob309,

I had the same problem with my 1999 Forester (52,000 miles). I had the transmission fluid flushed and that seemed to do the trick and that was 3,000 miles ago.

Alan

originalbitman

Tires of different cirumferences (more than 1/4 inch dif) can damage the AWD.

bit

idahodoug

Sounds like the tires on the front are more worn (smaller diameter) than the rears. This causes the AWD system to remain engaged constantly as it interprets the faster rotating fronts as slipping and puts power to the rears. This binds on sharp turns.

This symptom and the tire issue are so common I'm almost tired of typing this response. (almost - heh)

IdahoDoug

ladywclass

Is this an argument FOR having tires rotated regularly???

xccoachlou

If I did the math correctly, then that means the difference in diameters is 0.0796 inches?? That is about 2 millimeters. Now, you have me wondering to what tolerances the tires are manufactured to.

Of course, it is possible I screwed up the math...

- Lou

paisan

You should rotate ever 5-7K miles on AWD vehicles, just like any other vehicle.

-mike

idahodoug

Yes, rotate regularly and aggressively. Once you have a pair of tires that are worn smaller it is difficult to manage the process of getting them to match again.

If the above measurements are correct, I think you're well within the spec, but that's an incredibly precise measurement and makes me curious how it was done? Less than 1/100th of an inch variance between all your tires??

nygreg

Well, just came back from the dealer. The antifreeze leak is indeed the left head gasket. Kinda figured. The dealer mentioned that they have seen several of these, all on the left side, with both Foresters and Legacys of the 00 MY (mine is 01 with 33K). As for my pulsing brakes, there are hot spots on the rotors. They will replace them under warranty. The good news is I am getting new plugs (Bosch), an antifreeze replacement (with new gasket), oil change, diffy fluid change and tranny fluid change. I will pay about $100 in the end.

Greg

hammersley

Sounds like you also need to drag out your "how to replace the heater dash lights" page for Craig.

Craig: I still have that e-mail that Doug sent me, regarding the heater control backlight. E-mail me if you want it, and I'll send it to you in reply. My e-mail address is in my profile.

Cheers!
Paul

vince14

Happy new year to all. I haven't posted in quite a while, but have 84k on my OB and it has been great 'til last night. Please forgive the length, want to give as much background as possible.

Few weeks ago, since I felt the tranny was sluggish, I had fluid changed, on tranny and differentials,at local Lee Myles.

I noticed a distinct burning smell, that came and went, smell in car is similar to latex baloons.

Was supposed to bring it back to Lee Myles, but didn't have the chance, they seemed to think it was strange since they only changed the fluids.

I did just have the car inspected two days ago.

Well, last night, leaving a friend's house, backing out of their driveway, I started pushing into some snow so I pulled up and starting backing out straighter. I was confronted with a horrible, high pitched, metal against metal, grinding sound.
Tranny shifted ok, and I drove it home like that, (about two miles) but can't imagine what it is!
I looked under the car and see nothing wedged, I checked the tranny fluid, and there is nothing obvious to me (virtually car illiterate)
Sound only occurs with movement,I backed it out of garage a little, was ok in reverse but grotesque in drive.
So, tomorrow, I'll get it towed, but to where?
my regular mechanic or to the tranny place?
any ideas or help would be appreciated!

jfl

Could it be brake pads worn to the warning indicators?

vince14

thanks jfi,
You were close. Brakes were recently replaced, I'm pretty fanatical about maintenance since I depend so much on the car. Anyway, my brother in law listened to the sound, noticed it was from the left front and guess the problem before he got under the car. Guess the plate outside the rotor got bent in a spot, even had a small rock wedged in it. He bent it out with a screwdriver and the car is fine. Man, the money you can save when you have a clue. Like I said, I've never run pads that low, so I've never heard such horrible scraping sounds before. Though I spent most of my time looking under the rear tires, I probably would not have noticed the problem looking at the front.
still have that burning smell, though.
thanks again, Vince

jfl

Glad it's solved!
Jim

hoggc

We own a 2001 automatic forrestor and 2002 Outback 5 speed. The forrestor gets ~590KM on 51 litres of reg gas. My outback gets ~470KM on 55 litres of reg gas. The dealership (who are quite good) have talked about driving habits. Over 90% of my driving is highway. Looking for something more tangible.

the outback revs high. 3000 at 100Km/h which is a full 500 rpm higher than our forrestor or a 2002 outback automatic I had as a courtesy car. This concerns me as I drive between 120-130 KM/h in highway commutes. Therefore the engine is always revving between 3500-4000 in 5th gear. Can someone else tell me this is normal.
Cheers
Chris

jfl

all of the data here pertains to the 2000 model year.

Assumptions:
Tire: 225/60 R16,
Final drive: 4.111 for manual (typ 4.444 auto)
Top gear ratio: 0.871 for manual (typ 0.694 for auto)
Your speed of 125 km/h = 77 mph, rpm would be ~3600. Automatic (to specs above) would be 3100 rpm.

Your rpms appear correct. Your mpg at 20-21 does seem low, IMO. You might run your tires at +2 to +4 psi higher than recommended - slightly rougher ride in exchange for better handling and gas mileage.

Sorry, that us folk in the lower 48 cannot calculate these numbers efficiently in metric.

Jim

rob999

I posed this question on this board about a year or so ago - it does seem strange.

My 2001 H4/5spd runs at 3,500+ rpm at highway cruising speed, too. It does seem higher than it needs to be. You'd think they would've put in a taller 5th gear in to reduce revs and improve hiway gas mileage.

hoggc

Thanks for verifing the RPM's. Mystery solved. My dealer has already boosted my tire pressure as a result of my poor mileage claims. No real change. Jim thanks for the great stats, F.Y.I. I once drove 300 miles up north with the cruise on, no traffic & no AC. I got 22MPG. I little disppointed to say the least. The car has 24K on it. I am thinking of spending $500 and doing a major service (early than required) at dealer. That way if it doesn't get resolved, I can seriously start getting them to look at other possible solutions other than tire pressure.

Chris

paisan

No offense but no matter what you do unless you can track it down to something tangible, all mileage figures are variable according to the stickers, at least here in the states. Even if everything is 100% perfect, you'd have a weak case trying to get them to fix something they don't know is a problem. Hopefully something will crop up as a bonefide problem (fuel injectors perhaps?) so that it can be fixed.

-mike

nygreg

My 4EAT, H4 revs about 2700 RPM at 70 mph. FWIW, my dealer is charging about $380 US, for the 30K service. I am going to pick up my car now from the dealer - new head gasket and rotors along with changing all fluids. Wish me luck.

Greg