Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

paisan

New subies always have a bad smell for 5-10K miles, the undercoating is extra thick IIRC and takes a while to burn off.

NE cars and cars in places where a lot of salting is done and snow driving will reak from buring off the chemicals used to treat the roads. I've noticed this on my Trooper, Subies and just about any car I drive in the winter in NY.

-mike

postmodern

I was wondering over on the other board if the washer/wiper system might be related as the smell is strongest right in that area. I caught the latest whiff inside the car while idling at the TSP exit Monday night. Weather was wintery, the desfroster was on, wiper deicer was off, and I'd been using the washer. Sitting next to me was a NYS DOT salter.

Like Fibbers car, SueBee also is an 02 OBW H4 w/AT and Winter tires. Could it be a chemical reaction of the tire compound and the road chemicals??? Paisan may be right about it being road salt.

Lyn

otis123

Smell for me (2001 H6 LLBean 38K) is whenever there is lots of moisture (rain in summer, slush in winter), I've been highway driving (70 to 80MPH) and the car has idled. Smell doesn't bother me (it happens so infrequently) and it is reassuring to know it comes under those conditions each and every time. :-)

I agree it probably has something to do with moisture getting up on the exhaust system/manifold/shield...

Lyn, which TSP exit?

postmodern

Southbound TSP at Rte 202 in Yorktown. It's nice to finally have a traffic light there ;-)

Lyn

fibber2

They installed a traffic light at my Beekman Rd. exit just yesterday. Is this Taconic Pkwy Safety Month???

I try to ignore the smell, but it greets me most nights when I get out of the car in the garage.

Steve

otis123

Sounds like we use the same exit, but different directions. I get on the southbound 202 exit to go to work and get off the northbound 202 exit coming home. Can't wait until they finish the mess they started!

Ralph

bat1161

I've noticed the smell occassionally. The time it was the strongest was during the 48HRs run.

Twice the dealer has found a plastic bag that was melted around the exhaust, which they had to grind off.

Hopefully it will be duplicated next Sat. when I take it in.

Mark

mtom99

I have a '99 Outback (73,000 km) that I drive on most days. On the rare occasion that I let my car sit for more than 24 hours, I experience extreme difficulty starting the car. The battery is fine, the engine just doesn't catch. It sounds a bit like a mad chihauhau - wahwahahahahah, wahwahahahah, nothing.
Eventually I get the car started (5 min. - 2+ hours). The car then runs rough sometimes for about 5 minutes, violent surging/stalling in 1st and 2nd gear. I have always experienced similar conditions in the summer when it's really hot and the car has sat for say 4-8 hours. Are the two conditions related? Leaking fuel pump maybe?
I'm tired of taking these problem to the dealers, they fix nothing and charge me diagnostic fees, despite having an extended powertrain warranty. They claim that as there is no visible problem with the car, they have to charge a fee - well excuse me, it won't start, what more do you want?

Has anyone experienced similar problems? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

mtom99

While I'm at it, what's up with the service manuals??? I try to be a good owner and do all of the service when required, but I find a huge discrepancy between what the manual says, what my dealer charges me for, and what they actually do (and I have used multiple facilities for this reason). If I question them about a specific item they tell me that the manual is out of date and that item doesn't need to be done - yeah right. Are they just crooked? What do the SOA people recommend?

cptplt

dealers need to eat too but they can get greedy!
if you stick with the manual you have the minimum work to keep your warranty valid, anything else is gravy which may or may not be necessary but usually just pays the dealers owners yacht payment.

grahampeters

G'day

What you describe sounds like some sort of fuel starvation at startup. The combination of slow starting and rough initial running suggest something wrong here. Maybe you have a leak or faulty valve somewhere in the fuel lines which is allowing bleedback of fuel

Try leaving the ignition key at the the "on" position for a few seconds before turning the starter over. This sometimes will pressurize a fuel system and get around leaking valves etc. definitely a problem for a good mechanic to trace through.

Cheers

Graham

fibber2

place I was while reading your post. I had almost identical problems with a Nissan motor many years ago. If the fuel rails do not get up to pressure (something around 30psi), the fuel spray pattern out of the injectors will be poor. This dumps raw liquid fuel (as opposed to a fine spray mist) into the intake manifold outside of the intake valve. It will quickly lead to deposit buildup, as well as a poor start and rough early idle.

In my case it was a check valve that would not seat properly when cold, but sealed well enough to sustain pressure for a while once the lines were at pressure. Your dealer must keep the car for a day or two (sitting cold) and use a mechanical pressure gauge on the fuel rails. One guy cranks, while the other watches how fast the pressure rises.

Steve

dauerbach

I have a 2000 Subaru Outback. I had to have the clutch replaced at about 40K miles, at which time they also fixed the transmission which had been slipping out of fifth gear. I have driven lots of manual transmission cars and this is the first that had a clutch ostensibly go before about 100K. Is this unusually premature wear? I insisted the clutch was warn because the transmission was broke, but SOA and the repair shop said no.

paisan

My guess is that it is in fact the battery or the alternator. When (if ever) was the battery replaced?

-mike

mtom99

Hey thanks for all of the info. I think Steve and Graham may be on the right track. I left the car over the weekend for at least a day and a half and started no problem after waiting in ignition for about 10 seconds - woo hoo! Maybe next time I'll go for 2 days, baby steps right? Seriously though, I will look into it further, but until I get something fixed, I'll probably just continue with your advice.

Mike, to answer your question I'm pretty sure the battery and alternator are fine. I did already have 1 battery go completely/instantly dead about a year ago, but I am fairly sure that was a separate event (Subaru said it was defective). If anything I was actually really impressed with the current battery, as the last time I had trouble starting, I finally managed to get going after 2 hours trying! (read: my battery is a champ)

I'd still like to hear from the SOA in regards to how I can actually get this fixed, without having to continue paying diagnostic fees. Afterall it is under warranty still and I am getting a little frustrated with the dealers.

mt

mtom99

That sounds a little premature. I don't have a lot of prior experience with a 5sp but for reference I'm nearing 50,000 miles on my '99 and have had no transmission problems (I also have virtually no tire wear as I drive like a grandma).
I did however waste an entire day looking through this site and noticed that some of the earlier comments suggested contacting SOA and maybe working an extended warranty out.

mt

paisan

Hmm, they may be right about the fuel riser problem. Very common on FI vehicles. You are right about the battery being strong so I'd rule that out.

-mike

ateixeira

Another thing is there may be condensation in the gas tank. Try to keep it at least half full to avoid getting water in the fuel lines. DryGas helped Kate with a similar problem.

My OE battery has 260 CCAs, and I replaced it with a new one that offers 535 CCAs. It starts better now, FWIW.

I have almost 50k on the clutch on my '98 Forester. Complaints about smoothness are common, but durability is generally good.

-juice

ajm831

I had previously posted that I had a blown head gasket(on a 2000 outback) at 19,000 miles with a car that was 40 months old. The warranty covered the work on the head gasket, but not the rental fee of $200 for the use of a dealer "loaner car".(Had the gasket blown within the first 36 months, the rental car would have been covered). Subaru national customer service was terrific: courteous,prompt responding, and fair. They are spliting the cost of the rental with me, and are forwarding a check for $100. I'm delighted with the result of my call to them and will certainly consider another Subaru(would be my third), when I'm ready for a new wagon(Just sent for the Subaru credit card). Mean while it's off to the mini dealer this week end to order a Mini S for the toy car. jay

ateixeira

It's great to hear that.

Enjoy your new Mini, also. My toy is a Miata.

-juice

myuen

My wife was driving the car in bumper-to-bumper freeway traffic and she said the wagon stalled. My guess was that she had the AC on. Does that matter?

BTW, she rightly pointed out that her Honda didn't stall in stop and go traffic. We called the new car salesman who didn't have an answer.

Since then (last week), there haven't been any other stalling incidents. Any diagnostic suggestions? She's afraid it might stall in traffic, or worse, on the freeway. Thanks.

jfl

Get the dealer to check it. The salesman is there to sell - have the service dept look at it.

paisan

My guess is either a bad Throttle position sensor or bad gas.

-mike

ateixeira

Must've been a fluke. Maybe the alternator belt slipped (check the tension on it), or like paisan said you had some condensation in the fuel line.

I seriosly doubt it would stall on the highway, since the revs are up there and the alternator can easily provide enough juice for the A/C and all the other power accessories.

-juice

gxb159

The lack of padding in the driver's door arm rest causes great pain in my elbow after driving for over an hour. Does anyone else have this problem? Any solutions? Thanks.

ateixeira

The 1998-2002 Foresters were that way, is that what you own? The 2003s got some padding there, though still not a lot.

You could buy a black mouse pad and then cut out and glue that as padding to the arm rest. That would be easier than buying a yard of vinyl and stuffing foam underneath it.

-juice

hypov

Nope, never had that problem.
Mainly, I never rest my elbow there.

You could stitched up a tiny cushion and velcro it to the door arm rest.

-Dave

mjansen1

I need to check this site less frequently. When people start talking about tiny cushions and mouse pads for arm relief, I need to move on.

nygreg

Hey, better than having to discuss failing tranmissions or engines.

ladywclass

WalMart sells a "travel pillow" for about $2.00. We have several of those and they are great for sticking under an elbow, behind a shoulder, etc when on a long trip ....

ateixeira

Yeah, be glad that our Problems are so minor. :-)

For far more entertainment value, read about all the Escapes that are stalling in the middle of the road.

-juice

firstov

Sorry for cross posting.
My new LL Bean has stalled today at the red light.
Gas tank was almost full (good gasoline), no traffic, ...etc.
When restarted it runs smoothly as usual.
Please help !!

jay_24

perhaps it was parked next to a Escape/Tribute recently? just an observation on Juice's last message and your profile....

ateixeira

It's contagious? Kidding.

I think I offered some tips in the other topic, so check that out if you'd like.

-juice

firstov

yes, it's parked next to Tribute. We actually purchased LL Bean for my wife (she had so many problems with her RAV4...)
I'm very upset by this stalling issue. Car seems to work just fine for first 300 miles...except this stalling. I tried to rev it when it's parked: RPM does not go bellow 600-700, so I guess it could be water in the tank...

jfl

Have you taken it back to the dealer? I'd complain (politely) but let them know you are very dissatisified! If that doesn't get action, call Subaru.

All we can provide are wild [non-permissible content removed] guesses as to what's wrong!

Jim

firstov

will go to the dealer tomorrow.

ateixeira

Idle should be at least 750 rpm, maybe higher. They should check the ECU.

-juice

rob999

Is there a higher incidence of the Check Engine Light going on in the winter due to winter formula gas? I am certain that my gas cap has been ratcheted down tightly, but my CEL has been on several times lately.

It was on for the last week - I was going to take it in to the dealer today but it shut off again.

bat1161

Hey Juice- you called the burning smell problem! I brought the OB into the Dealer on Sat. for the LOF and to check on the burning smell I had mentioned. They came back and told me that it was the head gaskets, and that he would recommend NOT driving the car considering the distance I would have to go to bring it back (55 miles each way). So, I left it there, took a rental (Pontiac Grand Am-so so ride) and am waiting to hear when it is ready.

I mentioned how I had heard about this problem from other owners here on Edmunds. He confirmed that they have seen a few cars coming in with the same problem as well. The good thing is it is covered under the powertrain warranty.

Thanks again for the info, and the correct call!

Mark

fibber2

Knock on wood, I have had no problem with winter reformulated fuel. But one mechanic I talked to last year at my dealer said that newer Subaru's seemed to be particularly prone to rough idle, stalling and CEL's on the stuff. He said that late winter was when their tow-in rate for stalls and non-starters is the highest.

I am just guessing here - but it could be that the additives absorb and hold more water due to condensation this time of the year. We are coming into the period with a combination of greater temp extremes with a generally elevated humidity level. Maybe an argument for gas dryers (isoproply alcohol).

Steve

ateixeira

Well, I'm glad and sorry at the same time!

Cold weather is when any "borderline" problem will tend to show its ugly head.

-juice

ajm831

MarK: I was one of those who posted a blown head gasket also. The 2000 OB had 19,000 miles on it and was 40 months old. The fix took 8 days. The 36 month/36000 mile warranty had expired. The power train warranty covered the head gasket work but not the rental fee of $200(for a dealer Legacy). Subaru national customer service (800subaru 3) agreed to split the cost with me. I'm waiting for my check. very nice, BUT there seems to be a large number of posts about blown head gaskets. Makes one wonder??? Jay

bat1161

Jay-

Now you have me wondering. I better call the dealer. My OB has almost 41000 miles on it, so the powertrain will cover it. As for the rental, depending on when the car is ready, I can always have it go under the extended warranty- that covers the rental after my deductible.

This sounds like something Subaru should definitely be checking on.
Mark

gxb159

I am aspiring do-it-yourselfer, who has a 1997 Outback with the original fuel filter. The manual ststes that it should be replaced at 30K and 60K. Mine has 72K on the clock and would like to replace it. Has anyone performed this replacement? How difficult is it, I am mechanically inclined but have limited resources. Thanks for any advice!

jfl

1=easy, 10=hard; then complexity=2, but effort=6

I did it this past weekend on a 2000 Legacy. I'm not sure if it's positioned the same on a 97. Let the car sit. When you begin, loosen the gas cap. These two steps are important to minimize the pressure in the fuel line.

Loosen the hose clamps on the fuel lines. Then comes the hard part of removing the fuel lines from the old filter. (Have some rags handy.) Pull, twist, wiggle, perhaps a few choice words.

After removing the old filter, slide the clamps loosely on the hoses, connect the hoses to the new filter, position the clamps and tighten. (Trust me, you don't want put the hose onto the new filter and find out you didn't put the clamp on first!)

Work in a well ventilated place and don't forget that the old filter is full of GAS.

Check if www.scoobymods.com has instructions. They are quite informative.

Disclaimer: I am not liable for injuries or accidents. If you follow these instructions, you do so at your own risk.

Jim (not a lawyer, just being careful)

bluesubie

I was in Flemington a few months ago when they gave a lady the bad news about a blown head gasket. I didn't even know what car it was and asked the tech, "Phase I Legacy engine". He said yes.

Jay - is yours a manual? I know Mark's is.

There was a thread on nasioc a while back and one of the speculations was that it seemed to happen more frequently on manual cars since they see higher revs.

Had the cam/crank reseal on my wife's auto 99 OB before 60k. Fingers crossed on the head gasket issue.

-Dennis

ateixeira

You're in luck, I have some pix here:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291908425

It's photo #3 in that album (note: you might have to register but it's worth it). That's on a Forester but I believe most Subies are similar or even the same. Follow the advice above, and I'd add one tip: use clamps on the fuel lines to avoid too much spilling.

-juice

ajm831

My 2000 OB with the blown head gasket is an automatic. jay

idahodoug

Dennis,

Did you mean "Phase II" engine? I was not aware the Phase I 2.2 had any problems, and it seems that people's experience here on the list indicates it is the Phase II 2.5 with seal/gasket issues.

IdahoDoug