Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

12021232526170

Comments

  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    My car is running smoother now than before the head gasket work. I did have all the fluids changed, plus new plugs and a K&N air filter. My guess it is the plugs. After I give the car a once over and am truly happy with the work done (last month) I will send a "thank you" note to the dealer and SOA.

    BTW - went to Costco yesterday to get a leak fixed along with rotation and balance. The tire were purchased at Tirerack.com and installed by Costco. No charge for yesterday's service.

    Greg
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Not sure about Subaru, but the shop manuals on the previous Toyota and Nissan cars I owned with nut type adjusters recommended doing lash adj with the engine hot. The reason behind this is that you must guarantee that the valve is completely closed (seated with just a little free play to spare), otherwise you loose compression, and will burn the valve. A normal operating temperature hot engine is more geometrically stable and repeatable (in theory - assuming a healthy cooling system) than a cold one. What temp is cold - how long would you have to wait? Remember that most of this stuff is done by garage mechanics who drive the car into a bay and cannot let it sit overnight to cool to a standard temp.

    Steve
  • 3subeowner3subeowner Member Posts: 9
    I'm reading with great interest the experiences of others with head gasket problems. I am now the unhappy owner with a '98 Outback Ltd 30th Anniv Edition(92M miles) AND a '01 Legacy GT (51M miles), both with leaky head gaskets. In the case of the GT, it is under warranty and goes to the dealer tomorrow for repair. The '01 is leaking coolant from the cylinder head near the exhaust port. I started smelling it ever so slightly last week, but saw definite smoke and an empty reserve coolant tank today, after filling it a couple of days ago. It still has coolant in the radiator, but it will be dropped off at the dealer's now for them to repair. For the '98 Outback, the problem started a month ago with the slight smell, then a severe overheating problem, but no detectable leak as there is with the GT. So I parked it until my auto mechanic husband could find time to diagnose it and start the repair. The '98 Outback has a definite compression leak from the head gaskets with possible damage to the cylinder heads. I am fortunate that the family mechanic will be able to do the repairs himself and am prepared to pay around $300-$500 in parts from Subaru, but will save with his labor. We have written to Subaru asking their opinion. I thought it unusual to have head gasket problems under normal driving conditions, especially with the newer model. Neither car is used for towing. Both cars are well-maintained.
  • rob309rob309 Member Posts: 3
    On Dec 29th i posted a message about an intermittent and irregular delay when moving from reverse to drive ... Well as an update: as luck would have it, when my wife was out shopping with our 1 year old in the OB, the delay between reverse and going into drive became PERMANENT. As I type, my OB is having its transmission replaced at my favourite subaru dealer.

    ________________________________________________
    Transmission problem 1999 ob by rob309 Dec 29, 2002 (5:47 am)
    What does this sound like ?
    i start my ob in the morning after being garaged overnight, shift from Park to Reverse, reverse out of the garage, shift from Reverse to Drive, and THEN there is a delay in DRIVE engaging, typically a couple of seconds, somethings between 10-30 seconds , then engages with a thud. BUT it doesnt happen all of the time.

    I mentioned the problem to my subaru dealer, and they supposedly couldnt reproduce the problem.

    If it was a manual gearbox, id say the clutch was slipping, but im ignorant of auto transmissions.

    any views would be appreciated.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Curious, do you have the 2.5L or 2.2L in your 98? There have been some head gasket failures on 00 and 01 2.5L engines as you described (mine included). To have it on your 98 at the same time is very unfortunate. Please keep us updated on what Subaru's response is.

    Greg
  • 3subeowner3subeowner Member Posts: 9
    The '98 Outback Ltd is the 2.5L Anniversary Edition. Great car in spite of this problem, still "pretty" after 5 years with the red & gold finish, loaded features. But I was always suspect about longevity on this model, after getting 260M miles on my first Sube, the '90 Legacy LS AWD wagon. This Outback is not getting the same hign mileage use, but it is well maintained. My plan in a year or two is to get another Outback, manual transmission, of course, unless something in this experience changes my mind. The worst part of the Outback being out of commission is not having the heated seats during this wonderful winter. Reading about all the other Sube owners with head gasket problems sure sounds like a recall is warranted. There must be plenty more out there who aren't writing about it on Edmunds. I'll keep this site posted on what else I hear.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do call 800-SUBARU3 and have them open up a case file. Let them know that this on-line group is following your case and very interested to know what SoA can do for you.

    Venting makes you feel better, but calling might yield results, so it's worth a shot.

    Keep in mind Subaru has about a million of the 2.5l engines on the road today, so a few gasket failures does not mean it's characteristic of that engine.

    Maybe you could share the build date, so we could see if there was a run of bad gaskets (i.e. built at about the same time)? Check the door jamb, if you could.

    -juice
  • 3subeowner3subeowner Member Posts: 9
    I spoke with Subaru today about the 2 Subes with head gasket problems. They are interested, but don't have anything pending as far as a recall or a voluntary campaign. The bitter cold is probably a factor (CT has been bone-chilling cold most of January), but these cars & head gaskets should survive much worse. I do have a case # for the '98 Outback (the engine was built 3/14/98) and will be getting information back to them on what we find, if the heads are warped and need machining, etc. They also took info on the '01 Legacy 2.5L GT Sedan but will see reports on that from the dealer with the repair. I recommend to everyone with coolant leaking and head gasket problems get in touch with Subaru on the web-site or the Customer/Dealer Services Department at 1-800-SUBARU-3 (1-800-782-2783). They could do a Voluntary Campaign bulletin if there is enough of an issue.
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    I will soon be taking my 96 Outback wagon in for 60,000 mile maintenance. I purchased it at 50,000 miles and am going a to differant Subie dealer closer to my home for the work. He mentioned that the timing belt should be changed(as per SOA) at this time for that years model, and mentioned a price of $1200-$1300.00 for the complete job.Is this a fair price? Also there is that ticking type engine sound that they said was the timing tensioner,but while looking at the previous owners records I noticed that they had work done on the tensioner and cam at 41500 miles along with a tuneup.The $1200.00 does not include work on the tensioner. Also is there any other work that should be done while doing the 60,000 mile maintenance; water pump etc? I have been reading these postings since I bought the car in May and am confused whether the ticking sound is normal or not;it is more pronouced when the car is first started. I bought the car from a friend when they got a new VDC and know they maintained it well at the Subie dealer where they purchased it.
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    I forgot to mention that I live in New York City. The vehicle was previosly serviced at Prestige Imports in Pleasantville, N.Y and I now take it to Town Motors in Englewood, New Jersey,also a Subaru dealer, which is very convenient, and from whom I got the $1200.00 figure.
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    is IdahoDoug? .. out rescuing people?
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    I have the 03 LL Bean Wagon with the H6. I have used the 93 octane since day 1. I know...people have advised me that I could use the lower octanes but I would sacrifice some hp. Premium gas is now $1.77 cents/gallon in St. Louis. With the S. American and Iraq situations....I expect to see $2.00/gallon prices soon.

    So I am considering the switch to the lower octane gas. How low can I go....89 octane....87 octane. I hate to do this to my peppy H6, but this is getting expensive. I don't want to listen to engine knock.

    I am sure glad I got rid of my 2002 Bravada that got 15 mpg in the city, although that I6 engine used 87 octane. My Subie has been getting 23-24 mpg city.

    I noticed Honda is advertising their H2 fuel cell car.

    I would drive a hybrid if everyone else did....but I don't want to get run over by a Lincoln Navigator.

    This current episode in our history may be the turning point for the big SUV...no one will be able to pay for gas.

    Thanks for listening to me. Your opinion?
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    I posted the same sentiments at the GM Triplet site...I am sure
    I will here about this.

    I really do think this is a turning point for the SUV market.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    $1200 sounds steep for this simple to work on engine. I casually asked my dealer one day how hard to change the timing belt was and he felt it was one of the easiest. With timing belt change prices in the 400-700 range, I'd say that's excessive. Extra things I recommend while you're in there - camshaft oil seals, and any oil seal they can get to with the timing cover off, possibly replace the tensioner if it does not look pristine. Try calling some on the phone and getting quotes. Wouldn't be afraid of going to an independant repair shop if you can get some references and they work on Subies.

    IdahoDoug (still here, just busy for a spell)
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    Thanks for your input. This is the first time I am using this forum-Now that you mention it the Service Adviser said that $600.00 was for changing the timing belt.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $1200 seems on the high side. I've seen timing belt jobs in the $400 range, and the 60k service should run $400-600. Maybe shop around.

    DC area dealers charge a lot, too, though. Fitzgerald charges a little over $600 for the 60k.

    The H6 can use 87 octane, but it'll retard spark timing and lose about 4 hp. If 208hp is still plenty, it shouldn't do any long term harm to the engine.

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    I paid 391 with tax and 20% off coupon here in Colorado for 60K service on my 1998 2.5GT. $1200 looks like a rip off to me.
  • shad12shad12 Member Posts: 14
    egony5: the 90,000 service including timing belt for my '98 outback was $1115.00 at my dealer in western wa. Then at 94,000 miles my head gasket(s) went out as I posted on another subaru chat here at town hall. The cost for the head gasket fix was $2500. they said the engine looked to be in great shape when they did the gaskets.
  • ajm831ajm831 Member Posts: 11
    Hello. I've just started reading all of these subaru sites and discovered that other folks have had the same problem that I had with a blown head gasket. Occured at 19,000 miles on a 2000 outback. car was purchased on July 31,1999 and the head gasket problem occurred in November 2002. Dealer refused to pay any cost of the $200 car loaner fee(a dealer car), which I had to pay. Since the problem occured in the 39th month of the car's warranty, dealer said that it wasn't covered. I just called the subaru customer service department to open a file. keep you all posted. jay
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let us know. Mileage is very low, seems like customer service could take that into account. Try a friendly approach and see what they can do for you.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    more and more that taking the extended warr may be worth the money. The papers from Premier Subaru in CT came yesterday, and I think I will sign tonight!

    Steve
  • mjansen1mjansen1 Member Posts: 46
    What's the warranty on Subs? The power-train goes up to 60K, correct? Is the 3 year for bumper to bumper and the power-train 5 or 6 years?
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    3 yr / 36k miles bumper to bumper, 5 yr / 60k miles powertrain.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Correct-a-mundo.

    I got the Subaru Gold for my wife's car, 7/100 bumper to bumper. We had a 626 that was reliable for 5 years and then cost us a small fortune ($2500) the last 2 years we had it. And that's a reliable car!

    We had AAA and it would have cost $497 for 7 years. Subaru Gold gives you roadside assistance, so we dropped AAA. That pays for about half right there.

    Then consider added resale if you sell with even a little bit left on the warranty (for a buyer, it's a safety net). Then add free towing, free loaner for service, red carpet treatment at the dealer, etc.

    On a modern car one major repair will more than pay for it. But even if I never use it, I can just about break even if it indeed helps resale. So I had nothing to lose.

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    I'm like 450 miles away from 60k on my 2000 Legacy! Decisions, decisions.

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prolly not worth it now - you're B2B warranty expired at 36k.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    about ready to cross the 36K barrier. Just crossed the 60K barrier on my Sienna yesterday. Entering no mans land.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Better to not think about it. You'll start hearing little noises that you didn't notice before. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! :-)

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    LOL. The Sienna made a funny gurgling noise in the tranny. It had 59800 miles on it at the time. Started having nightmares. All is well though.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When it's as cold as it's been here lately, you hear all kinds of strange sounds. My Miata's valves are tapping something fierce. My Forester has some belts squeeking, though I probably need to adjust the tension.

    Then again it goes away when it's above freezing.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    it was warm (45F). I was able to do a really effective undercarriage flush and wash both cars. The rear bumper cover on the OB really holds a lot of dirt (flushed it for 10 minutes). The cars seem much happier now.

    Greg
  • mjansen1mjansen1 Member Posts: 46
    I have to wonder. The main goal for any company is to make money. Are they selling the warranty to make us all happy and taking a loss on potential repairs-- or are they selling it because it makes them more money than they could make having to possibly repair a vehicle that is known to be reliable? Not to mention potential interest earned on close to $1000 wisely diversified over seven years. To each their own.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Warning! Long post with twisted logic to follow....... ;-)

    There are a number of ways to look at this one. I believe that when a manufacturer offers an extended warranty, they do it to make money, both for them and their dealership franchise partners. But the payback is not necessarily instantaneous to them - some of it is an investment paid over time. Here is the logic:

    The extended warranty price has two components - what the manufacturer charges, and the dealer profit. My cousin was the 'business mgr' of a Honda dealer, so I am going to use Honda for this analysis. He is the guy in the back room who twists your arm to buy extra stuff at the close of the deal. That is the real profit center at many dealerships. They can make more profit here than on the car sale itself. For instance, the 7yr / 100k miles / $0 deductible on a Honda Odyssey can be purchased on the internet for $850 - $875. I have heard Honda gets something around $750 of that. Asking price at the dealership? Depending on how gullible they think you are, they might start negotiations at $1500 !! So Honda and the dealer potentially make out well in the beginning, at a bloated price, cash up front on day one.

    What happens next? At say an obtainable price of $850, do you win or does Honda? For a period of time their outlay is low - most of the expenses, including usually some level of roadside assistance, is covered by the std mfgr warranty anyhow. But holders of an extended warr are probably more likely to have their car serviced by the dealership long term, and do routine service more often, in order to comply with the terms, and in the hope of getting something for free out of it. So the sale of this plan generates more dealership service traffic. They are much more likely to get your business for a brake or clutch job if you are a regular. And in selling services, they include more genuine Honda parts than if you went to an independent service shop. Pre-emptive service at the dealership tends to lower the overall failure rate, so you win, and so do they. For example, replacing a damaged CV boot that they inspect every 3k miles saves an expensive CV joint from failure.

    The dealership doesn't get rich off of reimbursements from the mfgr., but they appreciate the increased volume of business. Honda controls expenses rather tightly. Dealerships make far more money when they charge the customer. Honda can refuse to pay if they don't think the repair was required or properly diagnosed, but in most cases, the private individual will pay the entire bill, including all of the 'extras'. So there again is another potential savings - you have a 'watchdog' on your side controlling costs. On visits to the service dept, you are likely to stroll thru the sales floor. And if they have made you happy during this long term relationship, you will more likely be a repeat customer.

    So in total, an extended warranty can be a good deal if you:
    1) Shop the internet and get it cheap. I think Honda's wholesale price is very favorable for the term of coverage, given the cost of a major (or even 2 or more minor failures) over 7 years.
    2) Don't buy the coverage on day 1. I waited for a year on the Honda, almost 1.5 years on the Subaru to be sure I wanted to have a long term commitment with these vehicles. You don't get much in the beginning, and the price may be no higher later. I think Subaru is flat, Honda does have some small adders ($40 ??) at each 12k mile increment.
    3) Be judicious in when you go to the dealership and when to your favorite shop for routine stuff. Don't get sucked into excessive dealership visits and end up overpaying. But do the maintainance & keep good records!
    4) Transferrable warranties pay back well if you sell the car privately while they are in force.
    5) Consider other cost savings (as Juice mentioned - maybe cancel AAA)
    6) Treat it like your health insurance policy. While you may not get your money's worth in total, you may make out big time!

    Steve
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    reasonable to me. I have never bought the extended warranty. Hope it doesn't bite me.

    Greg
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    ...Gee, you're pushing this extended warranty awfully hard, if this car's that bad, forget it I'm buying something else...

    Jim
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    is that it could pay for itself with one visit. No car is perfect. I believe most do not purchase it. My thinking is, buy a reliable car and skip the warranty. Anyway, if I have 60K miles on the Subaru warranty, what are the chances that something will happen between 60K and 100k? I don't believe you really need one with cars like Toyota, Honda, Subaru. But others think of it as insurance and piece of mind. Just different ways of looking at it.

    Greg
  • wired1wired1 Member Posts: 45
    Ihave gone to the SubaruWarranty.com website and asked for more information on several occasions. So far they have yet to get back to me. Are there problems there? Can extended warranties be purchased through the dealer? Presently with 12,000 miles on my '02 Outback.

    Thanks,

    Tom
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    any dealer will sell an extended warranty.

    subaru warranty have good prices though you may be able to match their prices by going to a local dealer and haggling.I got my latest one from them easy as pie, they send you the Subaru paperwork, you sign and send them the dough in their stamped return envelope and Subaru sends you your papers. One local dealer would match their price but insisted I drive 30 mile sto do the paperwork in their offices. The dealer I purchased my latest car from laughed at me when I asked them to match the price!

    I have gotten 3 ext warranties for my last 3 Subes, the 92 Legacy never got my money back as I didn't put much mileage on it though I kept it for 10 yrs and everything went wrong after the ext warranty was out!
    the 98 Legacy has broken even already after 75K. Stuff like AC, radio after the 36K bumper to bumper can be expensive.The oil leaks started after 60K and the dealer did the timing belt as part of the repair and SOA swallowed the costs. (Another reason to get ext warranty - good dealers do throw you an occ bone!)
    My 02 WRX is way too new to tell.

    My other ext warranty experience is with the wifes Chevy minivan. After 38K miles we broke even already!I expect to save tons of money on this Detroit piece of junk!

    After awful experiences with Audis and Acuras I will never get another car which I intend to keep beyond the factory warranty without an ext warranty!

    For those who say invest it, if anyone knows where I can put my money these days and get more than a few % per annum on it with no loss in principal, let me (and the rest of the world) know!
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Sorry if it seems like I am pushing something. Don't mean to offend anybody - just offering up an opinion and what I think is a reasonable economic argument. Just call it a fun exercise in logic and motivation.

    You have to know your own propensity for luck. If you are someone who "rolls sevens", keep your money. I don't seem to be that lucky, so extra insurance and extended warranties seem to pay off. I used to buy them on my new cars, then stopped for a few years. If I had taken them on my last two Toyota's, I would have made out great - probably 2x return. I liked both my Camry and Corolla, but even little thinks were extremely expensive to deal with (like a $350 neutral safety switch - cost of the part alone).

    Do what you feel is best. I was just trying to answer someones question.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just as the return on an extended warranty is unknown, the penatly for *not* getting one is unknown. The real question is what level of risk are you comfy with? The answer varies by owner.

    We're funny in that one of our Subies has one (wife's) and the other doesn't (my Forester). But we have 3 cars and I'm pretty handy, so I might do certain repairs myself on the Forester, while never being in a hurry because of my spare car.

    For her situation, it made sense. She can't lift a wrench and hates surprise repair bills. I don't have time to fix 3 cars. Plus, as I mentioned above, $497 off AAA fees and better resale sweeten the deal.

    Final thought - Subaru reimburses dealers for warranty work, but they pay less than a retail customer that just walks in and desperately needs their primary vehicle fixed. So basically Subaru shops for a good price, tacks on a small margin, and sells you the warranty, which could potentially cost about the same as the average for repairs. Their margin makes up for the discounted rates they pay dealers.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Juice, you are calculating, what, 7 years of paying for AAA. AAA is less if you cover all your vehicles. How about this - get a Subaru Credit Card. You can build up to $500/year provided you use the card. At 3% redemption, that can add up. After 2-3 years (B-B warranty), you potentially have $1000-$1500 Subaru bucks. If you do most work yourself, that $$ can be insurance. If the car doesn't have any major hic-cups that $$$ can be placed towards a new Subie (preferably with a turbo). I think I just convinced myself of getting the Subaru card. Have 35700 miles on the car now.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, I look at it this way - we had AAA for my wife. Now that she's covered for 7 years, we dropped it, because I didn't really ever need it. The other benefits we rarely used.

    I gotta get one of those Subaru cards, but that's a whole different thing. I agree it's a good deal. Right now we get just 1% back from a Toys R Us card, but it buys the diapers. 3% would add up to a lot for us.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    The best card I had was the Citibank Ford card with the 5% rebate / $700 per year. We accumulated over $3k which we put down on the Windstar lease. That, plus a mfgrs rebate, a good negotiated price, and good leasing terms, put us into a 2 year lease with a very small monthly, and we walked away from the table with a check!

    Now it is an American Airlines card to help get us to China later this year. 65k miles in the bank and counting....

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, I guess we're not too far off topic - the Subaru rebate checks might be a solution to a lot of problems.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    to bring us back in the right direction, my LL Bean card used to give me 1% on outside purchases. It was changed to 0.5% at some point. Next time I call to order stuff I am going to complain.

    Topic, uhmm, I have the LL Bean "hog mats" in my OB for winter.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My LL Bean vest is blue and matches the ecsaine fabric on the STi perfectly! I got to sit in one at the Baltimore show. :-)

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I'm curious if anyone else is noticing a burning smell in their cars? I have noticed recently that after driving for a while, either with the defroster going or just on "fresh" air coming in, there is a burning smell coming through the vents. I can't exactly desribe the smell, other than I do not believe it to be oil. I have an appt w/ the dealer on the 22nd to check it out, but I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem.

    BTW, I'm driving a 00 OBW 5spd w/4000 mile "new" clutch.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, ask them to check the gaskets and front seals. I bet it's coolant burning you're smelling.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Lyn (Postmodern) and I were chatting about the strong burning smell we both are experiencing lately over on the 'best service facilities' thread.

    On Monday, for the very first time, I smelt it inside the car. I usually don't notice it until I get out of the car in my garage at night. ('02 OB H4 w/auto).

    Steve
  • mjansen1mjansen1 Member Posts: 46
    Our 2000 Outback has smelled "hot" from day one and never really stopped. There have been many posts over the years about smells. I've just accepted it as part of the car and gotten over it.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.