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I also dont buy that deals can't be had on LEs with SAB/SAC in So Cal. This is the Camry we're talking about here (400,000 units/year), and in a market full of dealers like that, I cant imagine one would have to pay much more than invoice for any Camry trim line. Now, if one is a poor negotiatior, that might be a different story.
As far as the Galant- Mitsubishi should be commended for its excellent structure. However, Id chose the Accord or Camry with SAB/SAC over the Galant, since that car leaves its rear passengers with nothing in terms of inflatable side protection.
Instead of the Galant, I'd also consider the Malibu, which has curtains as well as thoracic bags newly available this year.
~alpha
The Mazda 6s scored at the top of the midsize sedan class in safety scores in the Consumer Reports 2004 auto issue. The Mazda 6i 4-cylinder was third (behind the Passat GLX), ahead of the Accord EX-V6 and the Camry XLE V-6. The Altima SE scored eighth place.
To arrive at its ratings, CR weights accident avoidance ability (handling, braking) with crash test results (off-set, side impact). It also factors in the probabilty of how often certain seats will be occupied.
My point is that all of these cars offer passengers excellent protection. My assumption is that side curtains increase your chance of survivability in a side impact collision. There are so many variables during an accident that it is impossible to predict whether any particular car is better than another during a specific event.
All you can do is put as much safety equipment as you can on them and hope for the best. That's why I insisted on getting side curtains in my new car, and why I had to dismiss the Camry when the SE was unavailable.
Lest this stray too far off topic, I continue to wonder why Toyota produces so few 05 Camry SEs? I liked the 04s, and I wish they had been more available when the 05s debuted.
Toyota and Honda jumped at the opportunity to supply SAB/SCAB cars because they did the engineering and testing necessary to ace the test. Mazda and Nissan evidently didn't. Look at the most recent car (minivan) designs from Toyota and Honda: Camry, Accord, Corrola, Civic, Sienna, Odyssey---all performed very well in NHTSA/IIHS tests. This is because Honda and Toyota make it a priority to do well on these tests and they design cars from the ground up to do well in these tests. Are these tests fully indicative of how a car will perform in the real world? Of course not. Do you still need to try to avoid collisions? Sure. Are Mazda and Nissan getting better at building safe cars? Yes. Look, I really want to like the Mazda6, but unless Mazda comes around and gets the SAB/SCAB car tested, I have to go Accord/Camry with SAB/SCAB. Especially since you're not exactly settling for an inferior car if you buy the Accord/Camry.
Could you please give me the contacting information of the dealer you bought from. I want to buy my car badly.
Also, what does OTD mean in your article?
I look forward to your message and thanks.
It is interesting that it seems the salesman didn't want to spend much with me and very quickly came to a price that is quite reasonable. The total time we spent around the table is just 15 minutes or so. Is this supposed to be so simple and easy? It's the first time I deal with car dealers. How do you think of the price I got today? Should I take it? Thanks a lot.
Her head hit something in the car, producing a hematoma in her brain the size of a lemon. She was also injured with 3 broken ribs, collapsed left lung, larcerated kidney. She would have been dead without the seatbelt! If the car had side and curtain airbags, her head and her left side would not have been injured. The car was totaled.
The question is what is the best way to buy the next Camry / Avalon / Lexus with side and curtain airbags?
However, if side/curtain airbags are your #1 preference, you could try Honda ... or you could look thru these posts and specifically ask the folks who bought side/curtain airbags where they got them.
It may be a hassle, but you can buy a car from anywhere in the US, you'll just have to work out how to get it shipped... by remote dealer, by asking the local dealer to buy it, or by one-way air ticket (~$300 ?).
These are additional solutions, for what it is worth.
-hank2
Second,in addition,the NY DMV form MV50 -Certificate of Sale had the milage left off which I caught at the last minute and had them write it in on the original and my copy. It had 102 miles on it. Would this still be considered a new car in NY?
Third, rust on the exhaust manifold and header pipe flange seems hard to believe for a new 2005 car, but there is was. Has this car been used or parts replaced?
I figured out how you did the math. From edumund.com one can get the invoice price of
05 Camry STD w/o any option is $17,268. So,
invoice: $17,268
destination: $ 540
+ --------------------
$17,808
toyota cash $ 1,000
- --------------------
dealer cost $16,808
The $500 rebate is not included since I cann't find it on any web site. I guess this is just the dealer's trick to make the deal look better. Like he mentioned other camry models having a $3500 rebate I buy it immediately. Of course, the price is about $22,000 for LE model w/ leather seats.
I feel almost every sentence from the salesman is doubtful no matter how honest and frank I am. He said for all the southeast dealers Toyota charges about $500 more than the Edmund invoice price, which I have no way to confirm.
bd21, thanks a lot. Let's see if I can get a better deal from dealers.
Her main requirements were heated seats, Navigation System, and side airbags. She had done all her research online and had priced out all the options she wanted. No dealers here had what she wanted, so she went through Auto Finders. They told here about the car over the phone and then told her the list price with all the options which was only about $200 off what she had computed. Of course, they offered her a much lower price than that (no sure on exact numbers). We picked up the car Friday afternoon and the salesman showed us through the car, but never showed us the actual sticker. The NAV was fine. He told us that the side airbags came down from the top and bottom. The switch to heat the seats was down by the door and my mom asked because the one she had test-driven had it on the dash. He said that is just where they put them now.
Later that night, she is looking through the manuals and sees that the heated seat switch is supposed to be on the dash. Then she finds the sticker folded up in the folder for the book and the sticker is $800 less than what she was told.
No heated seats are listed and the airbags are only the curtains. SO, we figure that the dealership added the heated seats (which she had already been told would only heat the back of the seat, not the bottom, and not work very well,
so she had refused that option) instead of them being factory installed. On top top of that, they don't appear to work at all. That may have something to do with why the side air bags are not there either.
Question: Is there anything she can do at this point? She is 65 and my father just passed away a few months ago so this is her first experience buying a car alone. She would not even look at a car without heated seats because it was so important to her (even in NC). Any suggestions would be appreciated.
You were with her, so if there was a concern about these items, why didn't you pass on the car then? You can complain to the dealership, but you really don't have a leg to stand on. The manual may or not be correct about the position of the switch. Things do change sometimes. Hopefully some who has this option can chime in. Before you get even more spun up, verify the exact options with codes from the sticker and repost. Although, you can count on keeping the car, so you may as well just enjoy it. You really don't have any recourse unless the dealer wants to just give you another car and frankly that just rarely ever happens.
~alpha
ps- matrixva- what trim line? model year? state/city? negotiated vehicle price? all options? these are all things that help other posters/readers.
2005 Camry XLE V6, with VCS/Side Airbags and Heat Seats options, Ourisman Fairfax Toyota in Fairfax, VA. Negotiated price out-the-door which included taxes, tags and title = $24,640.
And second, for the price
Base Invoice: 17,876
Side/Curtain Airbags: 559
Rebate: -1000
Destinition charge: 540
_____________________________
Total: 17,975
Tax & Tags in VA: 586
_____________________________
Total: 18,561
And I am a graduate student, so I need a better price, say around 18,400?
Thanks again.
Thanks
Sanjay
Her head hit something in the car causing multiple larcerations on her face and a hematoma the size of an egg inside her brain. She also suffered 3 broken ribs, a collapsed left lung and larcerated kidney. Her condition is stable after 4 days but she will be in intensive care for at least 2 weeks.
A year ago I came to the conclusion that I would not buy any future car without side and curtain airbags for both front and rear seats! These safety features are worth your lives, your limbs or hundreds of thousands of dollars in pain, suffering and lost wages!
When I was looking at the Camry 3 months ago, it was impossible to find any 04 Camry with side and curtain airbags at any trim level in Southern California! Honda made a great move making side and curtain airbags standard on the 05 Accord. I am very disappointed in Toyota for not making them standard on the 05 Camry.
I also wanted a SE but there were very few in California and the dealers wanted premium prices.
Toyotas produced a lot of 04 Camrys and Corollas with standard transmissions which the dealers could not sell and had to discount heavily!
By the way, the Accord has double wishbone suspensions, front and rear, which are only available in the upscale GS and LS Lexus, MSRP from $42K to $65K. In emergency maneuvers, the Accord's tighter suspension would probably beat the Camry by a wide margin with clear implications of better accident avoidance before one has to rely on airbags as the last defense.
I am not even talking about possible quicker throttle response, faster acceleration, better tires in an Accord if I have to dodge a big truck gunning for me!
Toyota seems to misread its customers' preferences or has little regards for their needs. Toyota also seems to try to sell cheap cars for higher prices with expensive options than competitors.
I am now convinced that Toyota is always behind Honda at least 2 years in all major and critical features, for example, ABS, 5-speed auto transmission, side airbags etc...
Why am I sounding like I am trying to talk myself into a Honda over a Toyota??? It's probably a good time to switch to Honda to teach Toyota lessons it won't soon forget!
The Accord still does not offer stability control, which the Camry does, on both 4 and V6, though its probably a very tough option to find on the 4. If you want to talk about accident avoidance, stability control is the way to go. Reference the recent study:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?ye- - ar=2004&filename=pr42-04.html
And yet, no stability control is available on any Accord, at any price.
Yes, the Accord does have a tighter suspension and its double wish-bone. But guess what? In terms of evasive manuevers, event the non-VSC equipped Camry XLE will outperform the Accord. This is info from Mitsu's website, in which the Galant GTS V6, Camry XLE V6, and Accord EX V6 were compared (really it should have been the Camry SE V6, but obviously Mitsu didnt want to get in over its head). The Accord may feel sportier, but the numbers indicate that the dyanmic capability goes to the Camry:
http://www.mitsucars.com/galant/accident_results.html
And again, for braking, the Accord bringing up the rear:
http://www.mitsucars.com/galant/braking_results.html
Quicker engine response? That is one are that Accord does better the Camry...
http://www.mitsucars.com/galant/acceleration_results.html
But even so, with 30 extra horses, the Accord managed just 4 tenths quicker to sixty. What about the Camry's 3.3L? Im thinking it would be at least neck and neck, if the Camry didnt actually have the advantage.
And since when does the Accord have better tires?
Want the "safest" of the Accord Camry duo, IMO? Get the SE V6 Camry with VSC/Side Curtains and 17-inch all season tires.
~alpha
Good point with the Civic- I was on a dealer lot the other day having my Nissan service (adjoining to a Toyota lot), and I'd say more than half the Corolla LEs on the lot were equipped with Side Airbags and ABS. Pricing ranged from high 16s to high 18s MSRP. The Civic EX with no side curtains stickers mid-18s, and as you said, forget extra safety items if you can only afford the $16,700 LX.
And again, no Accords or Civics offer VSC, and both the Camry and Corolla do.
~alpha
Second, we spent 2 hours going over the car and asking questions. The problem was...when we asked about the heated seats, we were told incorrectly that "This is just where they put them now." It was never at any time disclosed to us the heated seats were NOT factory installed. In fact, the saleman at the car buying service we used says he didn't realize they were not factory installed. Not sure if I believe that one, but...
The sticker does list:
XLE Navigation Package $1450
Curtain and Side Airbags $650
It does NOT list the heated seats at all.
The car obviously has after-factory heated seats - this has now been verified. What makes us suspicious about the side (bottom) airbag is the fact that my '03 XLE says "SRS Side Airbag" on the side of the seat and there is nothing there to indicate that it is in this one. Also, this is where the switch is for the added heated seats.
Since it was not disclosed to us that the seats were not factory installed and since the sticker does not match what is in the car, don't we have a case for "deceptive selling practices"? If so, who do we contact for more information - the Attorney General? the DMV Commisioner? Toyota?
Thanks for any help.
$17,000 With mats + tax, tags etc.
SC dealer
We looked at a Galant, Century,and an Impala.
Current Taurus owner.
I hope this helps