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MSRP versus MSRP. Seems pretty cut and dry.
Steve, Host
Seems to me when you are looking at a vehicles in the aggregate, MSRP should be used.
There have been several magazine comparisons that found the CR-V is about as fast as a V6 Escape.
And please don't start about the Escape's off road ability. Most people don't do anything more than some light off roading with either of these. Anyone into serious off roading wouldn't even consider either one.
To me, there is no comparison. I believe true test results can be obtained by loading each vehicle up limits and putting them on the road so we can see whose keeping up with who.
If I am not mistaken CRV is lighter than Escape (at least that was what I felt), so this is a small advantage but not enough to recover the difference for CRV if both vehicles are operating with only a driver and no cargo. But this doesn't help CRV to blow V6 Escape away. Any Escape XLT owner will be glad to teach you this lesson...
Scape2, are you around? tell us your adventures, man...
I am just joking, no one of us should attempt to involve a drag racing with these vehicles in traffic. It is very dangerous to yourself and others...
The best way to feel the difference is having a test drive. But why bother, the truth is in magazines for some of us.
I am curious, does CRV has this? (steve the host, did you see my sarcasm on the lot? :-)))
Sorry, but I can't stand the control center, IMHO it's just a bunch of expensive bells & whistles to tell me how much gas I have left. The instant MPG is nice, but I don't check my MPG more than once a year now anyway. I know several people who have had VERY expensive repair bills for the control center.
FWIW, the Escape's new AWD is similar in concept to the VTM-4 system used in Honda's Pilot and the Acura MDX. Electronic sensors activate clutch packs linking the engine up front with the differential in the back. It's fast to react and retains the efficiency of a fully FWD mode.
The difference is that the VTM-4 design includes a locking feature when the transmission is in D1 or D2. It also has a second set of clutch packs that lock the half-shafts together on the rear axle. It acts kinda like the lockers used on real 4X4 rigs. The Escape has an open diff in the back.
"MT just did a comparo on some small SUVs. The Escape took take top honors in the off-roading portion of the test beating the Equinox, Santa Fe, and VUE Redline pretty handily according to them."
I'm not at all surprised. The Redline VUE is a street performance package. The Nox has a longer wheelbase than several mid-size SUVs without the ground clearance. The break-over angle must be pretty sad. I'd hate to cross a berm with that thing. And the Santa Fe is just plain overweight. The tires will sink into hard pavement never mind soft terrain. ;-)
That same article also had the Escape running 0-60 in 10 seconds or more, the slowest of the group. I don't recall the exact number, but a reader send in a letter to the editors asking about it in this month's mag.
also bought another vehicle requesting quotes over the internet. best quote, and where i bought from, knows me as a regular customer. this was not the same dealer we bought the escape from. it was a matter of the escape having the right equipment.
ODI ID Number : 100935092004 -- Honda CRV developed an oil leak after the 1st oil change. Dealer said it was probably related to the sticky gasket issue (NHTSA investigation). After 2nd oil change it is still leaking and took it to another Honda dealer today who said it was leaking from the vtec solenoid which was replaced. They also said they cleaned under the vehicle but it was still covered with the leak detection powder. Seems to be leaking still. There was an even larger puddle under the vehicle after I drove it home. It’s back at Kirkland Honda now.
Yep! Honda doesn't have a problem... right...
I think I mentioned before that the new Escape 4WD system is supposed to be the one that is used in Land Rovers only without the LSDs and low range. Do you know anything about that? I'm admittedly 4WD/AWD challenged.
FWIW I did use the "locking" feature of the older Escape quite often. However my wife, who is the primary driver of the Escape, very rarely engaged it because she either forgot to or was afraid she'd forget to switch it back to auto when she reached a clean road. She too is very pleased with the new system.
In regards to the MT comparo, the VUE Redline (I know someone very well who owns one) came in second on the off-road portion of the test much to everyone's surprise. IIRC the Nox came in last, and barely made it into the wilderness, due to some very low lying and frail underpinnings according to MT. I think they dented something underneath right off the bat and parked the stupid thing. The Santa Fe fared a little better and the VUE RL made it a even further due to what they considered to be much stouter underpinnings than what the Nox had. Quite surprising considering they are basically the same vehicle. Especially now since the recall on the VUE's rear suspension where they replaced it with one from the Nox.
In regard to the Escape's poor 0-60 time in that article, I totally disagree with that figure. I don't go around testing the times of my own vehicles so I don't know what ours can do. But I can tell you that our '05 feels every bit as quick as our former '02 and this seems to be the general consensus in other forums. I don't know what MT did to get such a time but I doubt they'll do much about it. Letters or no letters.
I haven't started to read this month's issue yet. Did they respond to that person?
I should mention one curiosity about the '05's engine performance though. Before the first 1000 miles or so were tacked on it was a bit sluggish and the gas mileage was very poor. Our '02 was similar and I believe the manual states this phenomenon somewhere. This too can happen when the computer is reset or the battery is disconnected (basically one in the same) and the "learning" transmission needs to "learn" your driving habits all over again. Once it is done "learning" fuel mileage improves by a lot and performance picks up.
The '05 seems to suffer from this a bit more than the '02 but according to Ford it has a new version of the "learning" software too.
Maybe MT had a new one and didn't give it time to thoroughly break in. I know it sounds crazy but I don't have any other explanation and they didn't report how many miles were on it during the test.
Baggs - I'll check on the Rover comparison.
FWIW, CR also timed the new Escape V6. They got 9.6 for their 0-60 run. The MT Editor response to that letter was to report both the minor power loss with the new 05 engine and also a weight gain of 300 lbs (over the course of the vehicle's life).
I have no idea where that they got the weight figure from. That seems bogus to me. However I cannot find a site that gives a specific weight for V6 Escape full loaded. Everything lists the same base weight no matter what trim. They only list separate figures for 2.3 and 3.0 models.
No phone numbers in Town Hall, please.
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
You think I am lying? Check out the prices paid section.
Post your email and I'll be happy to give you the dealership (actually dealerships as many sell for that price) AGAIN.
What is it with you and pricing?
Are you really going to stick with your theory that noone can buy a Honda for invoice or less? YOU ARE WRONG. Hundreds of thousands of Hondas are sold in this country every year. Many of them for invoice or below. Including the CR-V.
"The Escape is agile but had less tire grip than the 2001 version we tested. Because of this, in this group it had the longest braking distance and the lowest maximum speed in the avoidance maneuver by a slight margin. It also had the slowest acceleration times of the group and so-so fuel economy. Reliability has been average. Because rear and all-wheel drive versions of the 2004 Escape TIPPED UP in the NHTSA's rollover test, we do not recommend the model.
Usually when an automaker introduces a new model or makes changes they are for the positive. Obviously not in this case.
People in glass houses.....
"Usually when an automaker introduces a new model or makes changes they are for the positive. Obviously not in this case."
NHTSA site is referring to 2004 Escape. Escape is changed in 2005 model year. And I don't see any test results for 2005.
Of course, Honda has ADDRESSED engine fire issue on 2005 CRV models since 2005 is updated model. So this must be why you criticize a car manufacturer.
Well I see the problem now. They must had some modifed version of the Escape because Ford doesn't build 'em with RWD.
As long as we're correcting errors, I made one above.
CR tested the 2005 V6 Escape XLT at 10.2 seconds from 0-60, not 9.6 as I wrote earlier. sorry about that.
The 1/4 mile passed in 17.6 seconds and the Escape braked from 60 mph in 144 ft. They list the curb weight at 3,575 lbs. The vehicle had no major options.
Yes, you called it, MT is wrong. The EPA estimates for 2005 CR-V:
MT: 21/26
EX FWD: 23/29
EX 4WD: 22/27
Better MPG this year due to a 5 speed automatic transmission.
For comparison, here are the 2005 Escape numbers:
I4 - EPA est. mpg: 22 city/25 hwy
V6 - EPA est. mpg: 20 city/25 hwy
Automatic is 4 speed. At these differences, I can't really see why anyone would buy the 4 cylinder Escape...
So do they send out a survey to measure the reliability of what's actually printed in consumer magazines too? Looks like they'd get a little black circle.
The braking is another thing that I don't get either. Our Escape has some form of EBD and I got to test it out last Sunday when a deer appeared on the highway while we were doing about 55 mph. I slammed on the brakes and after about a second of normal braking the EBD kicked in. It felt like an anchor dropped out of the rear end and latched onto the concrete. The old '02's brakes never felt that powerful to me before and it was known to haul down from 60 in less than 130 feet.
Could be the break in period again. The pads and rotors on the '05 are definitely not as soft as the older model's and might take more time to seat. I'd like to see someone test a broken in copy sometime just for poops and giggles.
Regarding the weight, is the new 4WD system heavier maybe? I think the spare is bigger as well. There's definitely more insulation and the like. All of the wheels have been restyled and might be a little heavier.
I guess 300 lbs plus a slight drop in power could shave about a second from the 0-60 time, but it still doesn't feel any different after the break-in if you ask me.
Books don't buy cars - you do.!
Terry
Snowman, how did Honda address the CR-V fires with the '05 model? That's news to me from reading the Honda CR-V engine fires discussion. I understand Honda and the NHTSA are still investigating causes and fixes.
Steve, Host
For Severe water Driving you need this;
http://www.khristopher.com/Canadian-International-Autoshow-2004/F- ord_Escape_with_Snorkel
I think this would be an interesting add on for my Escape...lol
Odie
He is expecting/assuming that a car manufacturer should address all possible issues with new model and based on this he is criticizing Ford for 2004 year model Escape test results.
Well, first of all, 2004 is not any different than early editions. 2005 is the new model and greatly improved compared to 2004 and earlier.
If he is in such expectations, then he should expect the same thing from Honda. New model came and no solution to engine fire thing.
Now you can tell me that Honda is still investigating the issue. What are they doing? Honda is looking forensic evidence to blame poor technicians instead of selecting different oil filter design, gasket material and moving oil filter location to somewhere else in the engine compartment.
But, CRV owners are scared to face reality and despite my previous recommendations, they denied to have test drive (post number 5468) by saying "waste of time, not in the market for new purchase". However, they don't hasitate to criticize Escape.
This forum is same small group of people arguing about same ole thing day in and day out.
Terry.
Show me ONE post I made where I criticized the Escape. Come on Snowman do a search, show me ONE!!! I triple dog dare you!!! In fact, in the post you mentioned (5468) I stated I preferred the styling of the Escape over the CRV. Is that criticism? Also, look at my post #4309 where I actually praised the Escapse's styling and rugged looks. Is that criticizsm? M a y b e I s h o u l d t y p e s l o w e r f o r y o u.
The discussion going on when I posted 5468 was in regards to preferences of Honda vs. Ford, not the CRV vs. Escape.
Snowman, you really need to get your facts straight before showing the people here what you don't know. You owe me an apology.
Sorry folks, I'm in central Florida and we're getting edgey wondering where the next hurricane is.
Don't consider the RAV4 as test results are good with side airbags, but Toyota makes them optional and good luck trying to find one.
I have been visiting this forum for couple of weeks now (started prior to my purchase). It is like a pis#$% contest. One group is constantly trying to establish CRV's superiority over Escape. And naturally, the other group responds and there you go never ending discussions...I couldn't stop myself not to respond some posts that I believe they were not related to reality and science and found myself in heated discussion...
My existance will be very limited in this forum since I did my purchase. :-)
I just have to comment here - this is the problem with Consumer Reports I have. They put themselves up as the holy grail of experts on all things. The ultimate judge and jury. Now, I know this is a misprint - and their fans would say, everybody makes mistakes, which is true. But when you are the standard that judges everybody else, you can't make mistakes and be taken seriously. If I make a mistake on my evaluation of the Escape, then I'm judged a moron, appropriately so. If C/R makes this mistake judging the car, I tend not to believe their other statements as well. Sorry, that's just how I feel, and it's why I don't subscribe to C/R. I find they make these mistakes all the time, which moves them to the opinion column, from the expert column in my book.
Most recently, they review small SUV and their top pick was the Toyota RAV4 and one of their "pros" was the great crash tests. The Toyota RAV4 without side air bags scored poor in recent crash test. Consumer Reports some how found one equipped I guess with side air bags which seems to be nearly non-existent at all Toyota dealerships. So if you go by Consumer Reports recommendation, they think the consumer should buy a vehicles that is less safe than others in it's class including the Escape and CRV.
Consumer Reports claims to be unbiased, but it is obvious where the majority of funding comes from in their automotive reviews...just read their articles.
A magazine article references the NHTSA's findings that the '04 Escape is prone to tipping and what do the Ford fanatics do? They focus on a typo in the article. Can you say denial???
As long as you feel secure driving your family around in a vehicle that is prone to tipping (people do own '04 Escapes right?) or an earlier year that has the A-pillar buckling in a frontal offset crash, more power to you.
Someone is assuming the '05 changes (not a complete redesign as I understand it) have addressed the former issue. I haven't seen the data.
Since points need to be spelled out here. Mine was that no vehicle is perfect. When you buy that perfect, zero defect vehicle feel free to criticize others. I don't think the Escape qualifies.
How about the CR-V engine fire? CR-V is more dangerous than any other makers in terms of safety.