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Our H/L has been flawless, but there's a few over in the Highlander forum that have a hesitation problem that seems quite evident, a couple people are filing for arbitration. Pay close attention to that in a test drive. Good luck.
Mike raises a really good concern regarding hesitation issues. I was considering an HL until I read about it, then a co-worker's wife had a pretty bad accident with her HL when she was trying to cross a busy intersection. She had an infant in the car and mentioned that the car seemed to hesitate (they have a 6cyl AWD). That was it for me.. My parents have a FWD 4cyl HL and love it, no hesitation issues. I believe the hesitation issues seem to be only with the 6cyl AWD models. So, if you don't require those two options you are probably fine with a HL.
But I'm curious, what formed your opinion when you say "The public is slowly but surely learning they don't have to pay a premium Honda price to get a good quality reliable vehicle." These msg boards?
It looks like the last quarter was tough for both Honda and Ford in North American sales:
International Herald Tribune.
CNN Money has a different take.
Steve, Host
I'm not going to use the "U" word around here for fear of an uprising so let's just say that other issues exist which lead to lowered profits for Ford and the other large companies.
I said that one of the major newspapers in this country reports every recall. Am I lying? I bet many others do as well. And when I say "reports", I mean they list the vehicle and the recall. This is sufficient. Full blown articles about recalls do occur occasionally.
Either you need to get glasses or subscribe to a different newspaper.
Kerry: " I have a plan .. . how to stop fires in CR-V's !"
Bush: " I plan to use Ford Escapes to intimidate terrorists! "
:-) :-)!!!!!!!
Steve, Host
I don't blame you. Things could get ugly with that one.
So who'd you vote for? Escape or CR-V?
Steve, Host
By volume, Honda is something like the 7th largest car manufacturer in the world. Yet, they now have some of the most efficient factories in the industry. Honda is opening new factories in North America, while others are moving production to Mexico. Honda has the two most sophisticated safety facilities in the business. They are consistently ranked among the top 3 by parts suppliers. Their R&D departments churn out some of the most inventive technologies in the business.
How does a relatively small company compete on so many important fronts? They can afford it.
Honda is 7th in volume, but 2nd in profitability. Sure, Honda is still strapped when compared to the conglomerates, but they keep getting better while the competition is treading water. They're catching up.
Steve, Host
Big Yoda has the trifecta: huge cash reserves, a large, efficient infrastructure, and a profitable product line.
Honda has the profitable product line. They have an efficient infrastructure, but it isn't nearly as big. Honda does not have the same cash reserves because their money is always going into improving the product line and infrastructure. It's a slow growth model, but a very tenacious one.
Once Honda has the infrastructure completed, they'll become a major player. Just imagine what might happen when Honda can afford to build a V8-based line of trucks and big cars. They only have one (Honda designed) diesel engine in the UK and it's boosted sales 20-30%. Imagine what happens when they can afford to have two or three such engines.
I think they'll always play second fiddle to Big Yoda, but they'll probably surpass VW in a few years and leave Nissan behind. That's assuming that things continue the way they have for the past 30 years. I doubt Honda will surpass Ford and GM within 20 years, but those companies will be looking over their shoulders within a decade.
I didn't see this strategy on Honda, at least on my particular observation.
Steve, Host
China came a long way and became production center for big car companies and I believe they are well capable of manufacturing their own cars. However, personally, I always question the quaality of their goods...
What actually happened?
Honda thrived. The larger companies are now viewed as big, fat, and not able to change fast enough to meet new demands.
Of course, in this case, size refers to the management and number of goals for each division. The size of the industrial complex (production resources) is another matter.
Has Honda's run - run out?
tyrone ""American" cars-made in China ten years from now?" Oct 23, 2004 1:18pm
hpmctorque "Chevy's Ambitious New Global Positioning" Oct 12, 2004 4:47pm
Sylvia "The automotive puzzle - "who owns who" and brand impact" Sep 30, 2004 1:19pm
hpmctorque "When Will Toyota Become #1?" Sep 30, 2004 3:14pm
Steve, Host
Where does this info come from varmint? Do you have actual income statment,balance sheet, some other financial information, or is this just more of your personal speculation?
Usually big corporations don’t have this type of hike in their graphs. I am curious, do you have the source for this statement?
My remarks were based on reading about the company for the past five years, not one specific article. However, just about any history of the company will mention how Honda is constantly upgrading and retooling their factories.
As for the financials, they're available in most financial news groups. For as little as $5 you can download reports from such sites. Read those pages long enough and you'll see Honda adding new production on a regular basis. Quarterly reports will break down profits and revenues. A good resource for information on production resources is the Harbour Report.
That same 2.2L engine will be added to the CR-V (already the most popular petrol vehicle in its class) and also the new FR-V MPV. It has been projected that diesels will go from 30% of Honda's total production to 50% within the next two years.
YTD sales for the entire line of Hondas is up 13% in Britain, and 17% in Europe. Again, this is all available in any decent on-line news group.
If Toyota is just sitting on their behind, where do you think the money is coming from to expand their plants in IN, KY, AL, and new truck plant being built in south of San Antonio, Texas. Toyota recently made a major land aquistion to further enhance their R&D in Michigan. Toyota is also making major in roads in to China and southeast Asia. All these projects takes Billions and Billions.
Toyota has much larger cash reserve than Honda, because Toyota is much bigger company than honda and not because honda spends more of their cash on infrastructures.
I never said that they ignored developing their resources, either.
What I said is that Honda spends the bulk of their revenue on improving their infrastructure. Hence they do not have the same reserves as some of the others. Instead, they are building assets.
Toyota no longer needs to spend everything they earn because they are already well established. They are the biggest, baddest player in the game.
I have not provided a specific link comparing Honda and Toyota because it's common knowledge. If you are familiar with financial news, you should know this. It was all over the place back in January. At the time there were many articles stating that Toyota has more in reserve than another other auto manufacturer. That would include Honda, now wouldn't it...
Forbes
"Toyota could buy this country's two biggest automakers — two of its biggest companies overall — without going to the bank."
MSNBC
Honda's market cap is around 45 billion.
Steve, Host
The others come out to the following:
Toyota - 129.9
Nissan - 44.8
DCX - 43.2
Ford - 26.6
GM - 24.4
BMW - 26.2
My question is, what is the basis for statment you made:
"What I said is that Honda spends the bulk of their revenue on improving their infrastructure. Hence they do not have the same reserves as some of the others. Instead, they are building assets."
Well I see you still have not answered my question or provided any data to support your theory.
I looked at the annual reports of both Honda and Toyota, fiscal year ended march 31, 2004. By the way they are readily available on line at the company website.
Looking at their consolidated financial statement, Honda and Toyota each spends 4 to 6% for R&D and capital expenditures as a percentage of net sales. Comparing percentage is more accurate since toyota earns more and naturally will spend more. The numbers were from year 2000 thru 2004.
Definition of Capital Expenditures as printed in the Honda's annual report:
"Manufacturing-related expenditures
applied to the expansion of manufacturing facilities, streamlining
efforts, and the replacement of older equipment.
Other expenditures included funds used to augment sales and R&D facilities."
Once again, the cash reserves of Toyota is much higher than Honda because they are selling more cars and not because Honda spends bulk of their revenue on R&D and capital expenditures.
Spending 4 to 6% of net sales is far from bulk of their revenue isn't it.
2. I have answered your question.
"My remarks were based on reading about the company for the past five years, not one specific article. However, just about any history of the company will mention how Honda is constantly upgrading and retooling their factories."
I have read many times that Honda makes for a less than ideal investment as they are often seen as trying to please their engineers, rather than their stock holders.
That's not "just my theory", it's the perception of the market professionals. Boiling down the reasons for that perception are not the kind of thing that can be done in a post-for-post environment like this forum. Especially when I have to correct you regarding claims I never made.
In short, the simple answer you are looking for is, "history shows it". The long answer is about 30 years long. How much time do you have?
3. Toyota is not the norm for the industry. I'm not clear why you keep focusing on them. Exact parsing of the language aside, my claim is that Honda has a history of focusing on developing their assets rather than putting money in the bank or raising their stock price. This compared with the behavior of other manufacturers (read: not just Toyota).
4. I agree with the methodology you are using for comparison, but I have two questions. Why only 200-2004? And, again, why only Toyota?
Okay I will go back as far as 94 since latest annual report only goes back to 1994. From 1994 to 1999, this is what honda spent for R&D and Capital expenditures as a percentage of net sales.
1994----8%
1995----8%
1996----9%
1997----9%
1998----10%
1999----9%
It appears honda is spending less from 2000 thru 2004 while their revenue is rising and not more.
Fine forget toyota. I brought up toyota because you are the one who made a reference to toyota.
As you posted in msg #5625:
"What I said is that Honda spends the bulk of their revenue on improving their infrastructure. Hence they do not have the same reserves as some of the others. Instead, they are building assets."
Why are you bringing up 30 years? Didn't you say you have been following honda for the past 5 years? You think honda is the only car company that's been buildin up their infrastructure for the past 30 years.
Show me the supporting data where Honda spends in your own word, BULK of their revenue for R&D and capital expenditures.
As usual varmint you can't provide any relevant data to support your statement other than your own vague assumption.
Ford did make some nice changes on the Escape and I think while its better than before, I'm sorry but the CR-V still gets the nod in my books as far as interior quality goes. By the way I want to make it clear that I don't own a CR-V at this time but am still just shopping around and test driving at this time. So please don't accuse me of being biased.
One change on the 05 Escape's I don't like was them dropping the ability to lock the 4wd .It was a feature that was often brought up by Escape owners as a advantage over the setup on the CR-V. Now the two systems sound very similar.
I don't think that's what Suvtime was saying.
All CR-V models were upgraded with stability control, traction control, ABS, three sets of airbags, larger brakes, and an upgraded version of RT4WD. (Those are just the "safety" upgrades. There are others, like the 5 speed automatic transmission and drive-by-wire throttle.) All Suvtime meant was that these features would not be obvious looking through the window.
While many of these are features above and beyond what is either standard or available on the Escape, his comparison was done with respect to the 2002-2004 CR-V.
Scape, you like to fish. Do you troll? Are you trolling today?
The tires are the same size. While the rims got bigger, the rubber is only 0.3" larger in diameter. Fuel economy went up another mpg with the addition of drive-by-wire.
Not to mention the 5 speed transmission, still not available on the Escape (in any year).