Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

sweendogy

i find it funny when you make comments- "naive" and using the term stealers.. dude take a step back and post something of value-- sure acura has great resale value- (we've all seen the acura commercials) but post some ALG website facts instead of again making comments that you heard from a commercial.. why does bmw offer comp maitaince programs?? why can you lease a 45K dollar car for 400 bux a month? (groundhogs day, good movie)

I hate to break it to YOU but CPO does include a copy of past maintenance -- give me you fax number i will send you a copy of the 07 crv cpo sheet that i asked for before i signed..i'm sure you returned a bunch of cars, and they were prob in good shape but computers now track maintaince. If your buying a 2-3 year old car you should expect a couple of scratches and minor wear-- its a used car..hello.

I know they are in it to make money--But they come with a warranttee and the check list of things done with the car to make it a CPO-- including tires, breaks, whatever and if something is needed it should be fixed--and if the consumer is smart they can have the car checked out before its bought.

Your right i sometimes zoneout when reading your longposts i'm sorry could be my OCD..but you have to admit your statements about all the cars you have seen i mean its pretty funny how you always have a story to discount the previous poster... all those cars with bad leather.. oh man

smarty666

it doesn't include maintenance if you haven't had it done at the dealership and they DON'T TAKE THE FREAKING PAPERWORK that you have as proof when you return your vehicle back in! I have had it happen with Infiniti, MB, and Caddy. Acura was the only one who took my maintenance records when I returned the vehicle!

Here is your proof for ALG residual value since you have to be such a pestering noob about it! It will be interesting to see how you twist and turn this link and its information to suit your own purpose.

https://www.alg.com/ResidualValueAwards

Infiniti actually took the top spot from Acura who has had it for the last two years. Good for Infiniti.

Seriously, what is wrong with you that you don't get what I'm saying. I have leased many luxury vehicles and some of the makes don't even collect maintenance records. I didn't have the stuff done at the dealership. Even if a computer records it, there is no way for the computer to know what grade, type, content of fluids and/or gas someone is putting in.

I do have to say, that not all CPO's are equal. I know Acura and BMW have some stringent CPO standards compared to the rest. When I turned my Acura in, they wanted all my maintenance records which I happily gave them. Others, were much more lazy and didn't really care about the maintenance of the vehicle as long as it passed the return inspection and nothing was severely damaged (Infiniti, MB, and Caddy were the biggest culprits of this).

Talk about the kettle calling the pot black, you complain about the fact that I supposedly say ALL vehicles, when in actuality I say either MOST or SOME, which is not all and then you can't leave Acura owners alone b/c of your sour experience with them and that ALL their products aren't great and you can't figure out why people are choosing them over others. And again, I said MOST of the one's I SEE! Does that mean all vehicles, no, so stop putting words in my mouth and twisting around what I say!

I'm talking about the CPO vehicles I've seen on all the luxury manufacturers lot that have really worn, faded, sometimes severely wrinkled interiors. There are some that are not like that. I never implied that all CPO's are like that or said that. But there are some that dealers think are acceptable, when they really aren't and still put them out on the lot without doing a lot of cleaning and reconditioning to them.

I state facts man, unlike you, who sole goal on edmunds is to argue with people. :sick:

sweendogy

another long post.. .you have a FOURLOKO before you wrote it. Nice work with the link - nice work with your wording making sure it was correct on this post. kettle black, nice touch..

How do you know that some Cpos are more stringent then others? does that include MOST, SOME or ALL of the Lux manufactures?

My past comments on acura are my comments- but those comments were backed with comparision tests -and performance numbers-thus having proof-- but I still hate the current styling, no doubt and i think the car is far behind in performance but ahead on technology.

you must have a lot of time looking at all those CPO on the Lux lots-- you happen to see a 2008-2009 335xi 6 speed with sport, nav andd premium package? how did the seats look?

Kirstie_H

If ya'll want to continue the personal bickering, take it to email. I've had enough here, as I suspect other members who are - get this - interested in talking about CARS rather than each other.

Don't like someone else's posts? Skip 'em.

smarty666

Anyway, back on topic before we went off on the tangent there, as I was saying, CPO is especially good on the German makes and makes more financial sense due to their higher rate of depreciation.

nyccarguy

ELLPS choice. If I was in the market today for an ELLPS, I'd headstraight to Acura for a TL SH AWD w/ 6 speed manual transmission.

sweendogy

i think buying a CPO - either lux German, American or Japanese-- is a good idea if your looking to save on money and get a good car given the CPO programs.. not knowing any depreciation numbers and just knowing the MSRPs of the cars in this group I would also guess audi, bmw and MB resids are pretty close to acura, infiniti and lexus. (would love to know the actual 3 year val for each brand) With that being said for the pure dollar amt it would seem the cheaper choice would still be japanese and american, again just talking pure dollar amt.

https://www.alg.com/DepreciationRatings

tlong

ELLPS choice. If I was in the market today for an ELLPS, I'd headstraight to Acura for a TL SH AWD w/ 6 speed manual transmission.

...as long as you value performance over ugly. And I'm a current TL owner (2005, though :P )

smarty666

+1 :P

sanjaysdca

+1
and the materials used in the vehicle are not that great. They do not wear gracefully.

I have a 2008 babied MDX with 20K miles (bought new in sept 08) but the condition of drivers side leather seats is not that great. Been in new TL (service loaner) and was not impressed

My 2000 Infiniti has aged more gracefully then 2008 Acura.

Having said that its best bang for buck...if thats what you are looking for.

I would look at Infiniti G or may be M.

nyccarguy

sanjaysdca - 20K on an '08 MDX? You gotta get out and drive more my man. We purchased my wife's 2010 TSX Tech at the end of August 2009 & she has over 24,000 miles on it already. The leather, specifically the left side bolster on the driver's seat definitely shows some signs of premature wear. Probably my one knock against the car (other than the fact that it isn't rear wheel drive & I'm not a fan of the electric power steering).

I just built a handful of these ELLPS during my lunch break. I configured each vehicle to the level of equipment on the TL SH AWD. Even at this price point, value has to come into play somehow. All cars have manual transmissions as I'd get.

Acura TL SH AWD - $43,445
Infiniti G37S - $40,325
Audi A4 2.0T Prestige (Metallic Paint, S Line Sport Package) $45,250
BMW 328i $45,150
(Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, iPod, Sirius, Xenon, HK, Nav, Met Paint)
BMW 335i $52,200
(Cold Weather, Premium, Sport, Nav, HK, iPod, Sirius, Met Paint)

The TL is deinitely the biggest car. So if you want performance, plus room for 4 full sized adults, and a generous sized trunk, the TL is your car. I actually dig the styling of the TL in it's SH AWD guise. It definitely has a presence about it on the road. I love the lip spoiler on the back & the faux quad exaust. The wheels look sharp. It gets fantastic reviews & write ups.

Your best bang for the buck in this segment is definitely the Infiniti. That's a whole lot of horsepower for your just over $40K sticker. They give BIG discounts on these too.

I think the A4 is a nice looking car, but am not sure if a 4 cyl cuts the mustard with it's $45K price tag. I know it is probably the best turbo 4 on the market, but it is still a 4. Good amount of passenger room, nice sized trunk.

Dynmanically, the BMWs are the best. Nothing comes close to the way a 3 series drives. $52K is a lot of money for a car the size of a Honda Civic. $45K is a lot to ask of a 230 hp car. I know it isn't about straightline acceleration & 0-60 mph times.

sanjaysdca

sanjaysdca - 20K on an '08 MDX?
I guess I have to agree with you here...but my office is 10 miles one way and my wife telecommutes...and everything we need/want is within 10 mile radius...so most of the miles are recreational.

Back to cars...I have driven loaners TSX and TL and I prefer TSX over TL.

Your price points are interesting. Didn't think TL is that expensive.

As far as BMW and Dynamics go, I think BMW were good dynamically but the new ones are more luxury-less performance. I testdrove brand new 2011 BMW 5 series and 2010 5 series and found older model to be more satisfying to drive.

sweendogy

for the price i would add the new volvo-- yes volvo s60 to the forum- it has 300hp sporty styling and is safe-its right in the pricing wheelhouse and has been given new blood- the boston globe said it was the best car they tested for 2010.

For around 40k
-1

I would go 2009 CPO BMW 335xi, 6 speed depending on how the leather looked.
G37
CPO new model S4, the one with the v6 not 8 (if you could get one for that price)
Lexus IS 350x,
TSX 6 speed,
328xi 6 speed, the little 6 is plenty quick

A4 agree to much $$ for what you get, current TL beergoogles needed, volvo S60??

nyccarguy

The Acura's huge discount factor isn't taken into account here. I didn't have a chance, but go on edmunds or truecar & see what these TLs are selling for. You get a hefty chunk taken off the MSRP.

Styling is a very subjective matter. I like the TL SH AWD's styling. I'm also a big fan of the former E60 BMW 5 series styling as compared to the current F10. I also prefer the E60 to the former E39 (ducking and running).

nyccarguy

Definitely deserves to be involved in this discussion.

plekto

Volvo's kind of the red-headed stepchild of the mix, currently, but they were right there fighting with BMW at the beginning, and IMO, make a very decent vehicle.

Just please get the manual. The automatic is a travesty and is something added for basically the U.S. market. It's unreliable and makes the car as sluggish as a toad.(this generally is true for most European vehicles, actually)

fedlawman

My uncle is an long-time Acura owner who buys a new car from the same dealer every 4 years or so. He's had a couple of older TL's, a Vigor, a TSX and more recently, a TL (end-of-run previous gen).

He recently went to his dealer to look at a 2011 TL and the sales manager told him to wait until the 2012 model. The 2011 will have a short MY and the resdesigned/restyled 2012 will be at dealers this coming spring.

I haven't seen any spy shots but it has to look better than the current TL...

Kirstie_H

Please do feel free to discuss the S60 and any other vehicle that could be categorized as an ELLPS in here - unfortunately, there's only room for 8 vehicles in the categorization/description field here, so we just included some that are representative of the discussion title and leave it to members' best judgment as to which other vehicles are up for conversation.

igozoomzoom

"He recently went to his dealer to look at a 2011 TL and the sales manager told him to wait until the 2012 model. The 2011 will have a short MY and the resdesigned/restyled 2012 will be at dealers this coming spring.

I haven't seen any spy shots but it has to look better than the current TL..."

Here are some spy shots, not that you can tell that much from them...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/spy-photos/spied!-2012-acura-tl/gallery

I agree that they really couldn't do much to make it any uglier! I can't believe that the TL is selling at a rate of 2500-3000 in current form??? I'd take the TSX V6 any day...or a CPO TL or TSX would be even better! I wonder if sales of Acura CPO models, the pre-'09 TL especially, have been stronger since the current car showed up?

nyccarguy

Sticking with what I have. I like only having 1 car payment. Hopefully we'll pay my wife's 2010 TSX Tech off in the next 2 years & I'll take it. I'll drive that most days and my Prelude maybe twice a week. At the rate I'm going, in 2 years my Prelude will have 170,000 miles on the clock.

We'll probably get some kind of SUV. Right now I really dig the MDX.

That Volvo S60 looks nice on paper, but I think in one review I read that it is more of an A4/Lexus Competitor than G37/3 Series.

ivan_99

there's only room for 8 vehicles in the categorization/description field here

Do you mean the "What is this discussion about?" at the top of the section?

I count 11 items.

Maybe you could choose Lexus IS as opposed to the IS250 and IS350 separately.

.

Kirstie_H

My bad - it's 9. The other two aren't vehicles, but other categories. I can only have 9 vehicles, and I can't just choose "IS" under Lexus - I can only be specific.

I did update Infiniti to be G37 rather than G35.

nyccarguy

2008 Infiniti G35S 6MT

Here is an '08 G35S with 6 speed stick, RWD, Nav, Heated Seats. Less than 28,000 miles and they are asking $26K. I'll bet they gave the person a fantastic deal on their new Acura and gave $18K on the trade stating "well, a RWD car with a stick is a hard sell around here in central Jersey." Then they turned around and wrote "Hard to find" in the ad. Probably could walk out of that dealership paying maybe $20,500 - $21,000 + TTL.

qbrozen

With Nav, too. Nice find.

Trade-in is right near $21k, however, so you'd be looking at more like $23k-$24k to buy it.

qbrozen

Also... click on the link for their inventory and come across
this little gem for stickguy

Although difference betwee price and fair deal is about $3k right now.

nyccarguy

That's a really nice car for $23K though. That 6speed 3er wagon is nice too.

kyfdx

Yeah.. the wagon is a little pricy.... It's a true stripper model, too... manual seats...

About the only thing it has going for it is the stick... stickguy likes those light interiors, though....

qbrozen

and it has a moonroof, which is on his "must have" list.

kyfdx

I think we do a better job picking out a car for him, than for ourselves..

nyccarguy

Much as it did that winter night/morning in Buffalo during the late fall of 1996. I was at a cliub with some friends in Buffalo (I went to college about 2 1/2 hours away in Ithaca). My friend who I was visiting (and at the club with) was in a shall we say intoxicated state and getting very friendly with a 6' tall blonde. At about 3:30 AM I decided I had had enough and wanted to go back to his place to crash.

"Chris, give me your keys. I'll meet you back at your place later. Call me if you need a lift."

With the flick of his wrist, he tossed me the keys to his 1995 E36 BMW 325is. Red/Black leather. 5 speed manual transmission. HK, Sunroof, & most importantly Sport Package + additional factory lowering.

Now up until this point, I was a novice at driving stick and had never had any real seat time in a BMW. I thought they were for "show offs." My entire point of view changed by the time I took off from the 1st traffic light. I had never driven a car that I just felt so perfect in. I drove the car around the streets of Buffalo for the next 2 1/2 hours. By the end of the night, I was steering around right turns with the throttle & rotating around corners perfectly. I've wanted a BMW ever since.

Fast forward to December 2, 2010. The numbers don't mean a whole helluva lot. BMW gets good money for their cars and they are worth every penny.

I've got my Mom's '08 E90 BMW 328xiA (almost 61,000 miles) until Saturday. Even saddled with all wheel drive & automatic transmission, it is still a true driver's car. You all know how much I love my '01 Prelude Type SH (almost 132,000 miles). My Mom's BMW is one of the few cars I've driven that almost make my Prelude feel "loose."

The drive from my parents house in Rockland County, NY to my house in Stamford, CT changed my mind and reinvigorated my passion for BMWs. I'd take a 328i with its 230 horsepower, no NAV, leatherette, sports package, & 6 speed stick. It is just an amazing car to drive. I would even consider a CPO or private party used (as long as the person has service records & the car passes a PPI) and I've only owned new cars my entire driving life since I got my license.