Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse

Car and Driver just tested a 2017 S3, I haven't had time to read the article but I thought I would post it, I'm going to look at 2017 Audi A4 tomorrow.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=060116

sda

Has anyone heard from markincincinati? I think his last post was in February.

cdnpinhead

Good question. He cut way back a few years ago, possibly due to having to spend much more time on his business, but I don't remember him being gone this long before.

graphicguy

flightnurse said:

Car and Driver just tested a 2017 S3, I haven't had time to read the article but I thought I would post it, I'm going to look at 2017 Audi A4 tomorrow.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=060116

FN...would be interested in your take on the new A4.

nyccarguy

flightnurse said:

Car and Driver just tested a 2017 S3, I haven't had time to read the article but I thought I would post it, I'm going to look at 2017 Audi A4 tomorrow. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=060116

Looks like Audi is on the right track.  Make a great car.  Slowly make improvements based on customer/media feedback as the model progresses.

I hate to be "that guy," but in a couple of years, a CPO S3 or S4 might make a good buy.  I keep seeing more and more Audis on the road.  They definitely "look the part" and distinguish themselves from the sea of 3 series and C-Class' out on the road.  

I saw a run of the mill A3 2.0T sedan in grey with what looked like some nice, thick, 5 Spoke silver & black wheels, a lip spoiler that I liked.  

There te seems to be a good amount of these current or 1 year old CPO A3 & A4 units for sale at a healthy discount off sticker.

flightnurse

So the test drive went well, just a little FYI, it was 110 today here in Sunny PHX...

So I test drove two A4's, but 2017, I drove a Premium Plus FWD with a CVT (only transmission that comes with FWD) and a Premium Plus Auto ( Quattro)

I have always liked the looks of the Audi's and their interiors have always been very clean (almost like someone from Denmark designed them) and minimalist at the same time. The size of the A4 is bigger then last Gen, so in comparison it's slight bigger then my 320, but the 3GT has more rear legroom.

I was surprised how well the CVT shifts, but there is still that rubber band feeling, the Auto in the Quattro was better, but not too sure if AWD is really needed here in the Desert. The 252 HP 2L has a lot of motivation, but our 3GT is quicker (it has the BMS stage 1) over all driving the car is drove well, both with CVT or Duel Clutch but I give the Dual Clutch the nod, pricing for the cars are very competitive, you can get a Premium Plus for about 46K fully loaded, very competitive with BMW and a 328i. Even in Quattro you can tell the car is based on FWD. Fit and Finish was first rate, and would give Audi a nod for the feel of the leather over both of our BWW's.

The size of the A4 felt just right not too bed or too small, I'm not too sure if an A6 is needed, plenty of rear leg room and head room, even behind the drivers seat once I adjusted the drivers seat to my liking. I sat in a 2017 S3 and found small and I can see the appeal to it.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

flightnurse said:

Car and Driver just tested a 2017 S3, I haven't had time to read the article but I thought I would post it, I'm going to look at 2017 Audi A4 tomorrow.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=060116

Looks like Audi is on the right track.  Make a great car.  Slowly make improvements based on customer/media feedback as the model progresses.

I hate to be "that guy," but in a couple of years, a CPO S3 or S4 might make a good buy.  I keep seeing more and more Audis on the road.  They definitely "look the part" and distinguish themselves from the sea of 3 series and C-Class' out on the road.  

I saw a run of the mill A3 2.0T sedan in grey with what looked like some nice, thick, 5 Spoke silver & black wheels, a lip spoiler that I liked.  

There te seems to be a good amount of these current or 1 year old CPO A3 & A4 units for sale at a healthy discount off sticker.

I agree, based on that review it looks like Audi TTS-ified the S3. No wonder I liked, but didn't love the '16 and older S3's. That being said the performance enthusiasts will be taking advantage of the new engine's stage 1 tunes coming in at about 350+ HP. No need for the 5-cylinder unless you just have to have the superior "sound" of it.

stickguy

I thought the A4 was using the normal AT, not the dual clutch box? Which is fine by me for one of these!

andres3

stickguy said:

I thought the A4 was using the normal AT, not the dual clutch box? Which is fine by me for one of these!

I think the '17 A4 has simply gone standard dual clutch auto, at least in Quattro form, but I haven't seen one in person very closely yet, nor driven one.

stickguy

looks like you are correct. Must be confusing it with the old style, but looks like the A4 is DSG, though the site just mentions base FWD, I'm sure it is the same with Quattro.

flightnurse

When it comes to transmissions the Premium A4 get's the CVT, if you move up to the Premium Plus and Prestige they get the DSG. I just wish Audi would move to a RWD platform.

stickguy

not according to their site. Looks like DSG on the premium too, FWD or AWD.

https://www.audiusa.com/models/audi-a4/configurator

nyccarguy

@flightnurse - great write up on the A4. I too was seriously impressed with the DSG transmission in PDK form while driving a 911GT3 around a track in NJ.

flightnurse

stickguy said:

not according to their site. Looks like DSG on the premium too, FWD or AWD.

https://www.audiusa.com/models/audi-a4/configurator

I'm going out on a limb and saw that that isn't correct, every 2017 A4 that North Scottsdale Audi has, has a CVT transmission, the salesmen said that the Premium gets the CVT and the DSG on the other models.

flightnurse

nyccarguy said:

@flightnurse - great write up on the A4. I too was seriously impressed with the DSG transmission in PDK form while driving a 911GT3 around a track in NJ.

A lot of people aren't happy that the MT is on it's way out, but the current crop of DSG and Auto transmissions really make it hard for people not to agree, I love the 8 spd in our BMW's

andres3

DSG might not have the smoothest of shifting characteristics, particularly at low or stopping speed, but when you can bang out consistent 4-1/2 second OR LESS 0-60 sprints in part due to the brilliant "launch control" features of the DSG, how can one honestly complain?

roadburner

I'm coming around to the opinion that a manual tends to be more entertaining when the car actually needs a manual gearbox. For example, my 318ti(with a Turner Motorsports Conforti chip) makes around 140 lb-ft of torque at 4500 rpm. You simply must keep the engine wound tight to make anything close to rapid progress- and it's a lot of fun to drive it in that fashion. In contrast, my M235i makes 330 lb-ft of twist from 1300 to 4500 rpm; with such a flat torque curve there is almost always a ton of thrust available regardless of rpm and/or the gear selected. It's also nice to have a car that can convert from cruise mode to track toy mode with the press of a button. If I was buying an M2 or M3 I would definitely go with a manual every time, but in the less intense models an automatic transmission does not detract from my enjoyment of the car- but then at 59 I'm fast approaching geezer status.

nyccarguy

Just poking around, I am noticing a few brand new 2015 leftover S4s still sitting on dealer lots.  What gives?  Is there no lease support, so the 2016s (which you can lease) are moving off the lots?  

flightnurse

RR even in the M3 and M4 the DSG are wonderful, just as you said you can go from Cruise mode to toy mode with a push of a button. It's like having two cars in one. Some years back Rick had a Mini convertible as a rental it was the non turbo model, and that car could not get out of it's own way, a MT was needed in that car.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

Just poking around, I am noticing a few brand new 2015 leftover S4s still sitting on dealer lots.  What gives?  Is there no lease support, so the 2016s (which you can lease) are moving off the lots?  

Audi has dropped lease support on all 2015's, making them more expensive to lease than the 2016's.

nyccarguy

I just spent a few minutes building my own Audis on the Audi Website. There hasn't been a vehicle out within reason in quite a few years that I actually cared enough to look, so hats off to Audi. They caught my discerning eye.

2016 A3 2.0T Quattro Premium Plus - Metallic Paint, Sport Package, Sport Suspension, B&O Stereo. MSRP of $40,275

2016 S3 Premium Plus - Metallic Paint 19" Performance Package, B&O Stereo. MSRP $45,525.

2016 S4 Premium Plus - DSG, Sport Differential, Adaptive Suspension. MSRP $54,125

These cars continue to get good press as well as real world reviews from actual customers. All 3 of these cars are way out of my budget, but they do depreciate and eventually there will be a sweet spot to buy a nicely used CPO model.

nyccarguy

I saw a gorgeous WHITE S3 tonight!

breld

There's a white S3 parked outside our office building these days - I agree it's very sharp with the contrasting black panoramic sunroof.

flightnurse

So Friday my local BMW dealer had a driving event, Drive for the Cause, it was held on friday and of course no one was there for it at 11am, so Rick and I had all the cars to ourselves. They had 650i GC, 550i sedan, 4289GC, X1,X3, X5 40e (plug in) they also has a 340i sedan that was a rolling catalog for the M Sport performance parts. I drove only 4 of them, the 650, 550, X5 and X1. First time driving the 650iGC and I loved it, It handled well, was roomy and it didn't look like a typical sedan, it was fully load, M Sport, Executive package, B&O radio and a couple of other options (don't remember what they were) but the TT V8 is a monster, and I would get tickets in it, the 550 was equipped pretty much the same way and I wasn't that happy with it felt bigger and disconnected but then again the TTV8! The X5 40e was a complete surprise it was comfortable to drive, you have a very commanding view of the road, the power train was great never did I feel being between pure elec and gas engine, the 2L gas engine was peppy enough to move the big X5 without much problem, very refined.. The X1 was a big disappointment but after thinking about it for a couple of day, there was no way the X1 was going to impress me or Rick after driving the other 3 cars, the X1 feels like a much lower price car, lots of road noise and tire noise, the ride was bouncey and never felt planted. plus it was much smaller then I thought it was going to be.

Rick drove the 428GC that was loaded with M Sport and couple of other packages and really liked how it drove, but he did like the 650GC too.

Spoke to a CA and we took out a 640iGC and really liked how that one drove, yeah it's down on power, but the planted feel and comfortable but firm ride was still there. MSRP 83K was a little shocker, not too sure if I'm willing to spend that much on a car right now.. Only if BMW would build a M4GC!!

cdnpinhead

Couldn't imagine why the masses didn't show up to drive cars in 115 degree heat. Oh wait, maybe I can.

nyccarguy

@flightnurse - A few years ago, I drove a BMW 650i Sport Package Equipped Drop Top at a similar event. While the car was beautiful and quite powerful, I looked at the $90K+ Sticker price and said to myself; "no way." You are in 911 territory at this price point. Yes a 911 with not too many options, but a 911.

I do LOVE the way the 4 series and 6 series Grand Coupes look (even though I think their nomenclature are stupid). They make an ///M6 Grand Coupe, right?

flightnurse

cdnpinhead said:

Couldn't imagine why the masses didn't show up to drive cars in 115 degree heat. Oh wait, maybe I can.

I don't think it was the heat that caused more like it was on a Friday morning and some people might have to work..

flightnurse

nyccarguy said:

They make an ///M6 Grand Coupe, right?

Yes they do

stickguy

I walked a row at the BMW dealer today (some of their new cars). Had to read the backs to figure out what was what. So many looked not all that much different from each other. 2's at least were coupes. But the 3, 4 GT, GCs, all blurred together.

oh, they were expensive too!

nyccarguy

@flightnurse - I saw a B6 Alpina Grand Coupe on the way in this AM & an ///M6 Grand Coupe on the way home tonight.

flightnurse

stickguy said:

I walked a row at the BMW dealer today (some of their new cars). Had to read the backs to figure out what was what. So many looked not all that much different from each other. 2's at least were coupes. But the 3, 4 GT, GCs, all blurred together.

oh, they were expensive too!

Interesting wasn't aware there was a 4GT, that would have stood out, but then again, 3 series is a sedan and a 4 series is a coupe, they all look alike I guess

flightnurse

nyccarguy said:

@flightnurse - I saw a B6 Alpina Grand Coupe on the way in this AM & an ///M6 Grand Coupe on the way home tonight.

There you go, the stars are trying to tell you to get a 6 series...

stickguy

maybe I mixed that up in the alphabet soup. Might have been 4 GC and 3 GT. they don't make it easy to keep straight.

nyccarguy

flightnurse said:

@flightnurse - I saw a B6 Alpina Grand Coupe on the way in this AM & an ///M6 Grand Coupe on the way home tonight.

There you go, the stars are trying to tell you to get a 6 series...

Lol!  I'd have to wait for you & Rick to buy a moderately priced 640i GC X-Drive (my wife prefers blue), and then buy it from you second hand for somewhere less than 50% of the car's original MSRP when you are done with it!

I don't completely trust BMW's marvelous twin turbo V8.  I have a friend who had an X5 ///M & an ///M5 (modified with some Dinan goodies).  He had significant engine trouble with both vehicles that the dealer couldn't diagnose.  The cars would go into "limp mode" while he was in the middle of accelerating onto the highway.

nyccarguy

@flightnurse - how many miles are on your modified 320i?  Have you had any issues with it (regular or related to the chip)?  Are you still happy with it?

flightnurse

nyccarguy said:

Lol!  I'd have to wait for you & Rick to buy a moderately priced 640i GC X-Drive (my wife prefers blue), and then buy it from you second hand for somewhere less than 50% of the car's original MSRP when you are done with it!

I don't completely trust BMW's marvelous twin turbo V8.  I have a friend who had an X5 ///M & an ///M5 (modified with some Dinan goodies).  He had significant engine trouble with both vehicles that the dealer couldn't diagnose.  The cars would go into "limp mode" while he was in the middle of accelerating onto the highway.

Yes the N63 (engine code) has had problems and it appears BMW has a fix, the truly sad part really is, Audi and MB both have TT V8 and don't have problems with theirs. I had thought about a 550 in the past but after researching the N63 issues and the factory fix, I'm not totally convinced they have it fixed. Here are a could of threads on Bimmerfest regarding the N63 engine problems.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=828680

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817273

flightnurse

stickguy said:

maybe I mixed that up in the alphabet soup. Might have been 4 GC and 3 GT. they don't make it easy to keep straight.

Stick, the same can be said about Audi, MB, Infiniti, Lexus if one really isn't into a brand then yes all the cars even sedans and coupes look a like..

flightnurse

nyccarguy said:

@flightnurse - how many miles are on your modified 320i?  Have you had any issues with it (regular or related to the chip)?  Are you still happy with it?

Forgot to answer this, I have 47K miles on El Cheapo and never had a mechanical issue with it, of that 39K or so is with the Stage 1.

flightnurse

So here is a short write up on the new Volvo S90, very promising.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-volvo-s90-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=060816

Mr_Shiftright

Their Series 5 BMW competitor really needed an upgrade like that. The older S80 had a horrendous depreciation rate. Losing 58% of your car's value in 3 years isn't an encouragement to buy.

brian125

I like the lines on this S90 looks sharp. love the blue color. I'm not a fan of any 4cyl / turbo in a car this heavy. I'd like to put this S90 up against the 17 Hyundai Genesis. I'd think in the looks dept. Volvo has the Genesis beat.

Is there a Air suspension option on the S90 that would help ride quality. These are the things I would look at before buying the S90

Road noise, Interior size, Seat comfort , To firm ride, and depreciation value would be my main concern for this model if I was considering it.

The 2016 XC90 ride is way to firm for me and the control / screen system is terrible.

andys120

There's something familiar about that styling>
2017- Volvo S90

2016 BMW 650i GC


If you're going to steal, steal from the best.

flightnurse

So stopped by the MB dealer and looked at the GLC and the new C Class coupe, liked the GLC a big improvement over the GLK it replaced.. Now the car that really blew me away was the new C- coupe looks like a mini S coupe MB had a home run with this car, didn't drive it, just wanted to look at it.

stickguy

my son drove a C class coupe friday. I rode in the back (won't do that again). He was in lust with it. Impressive car if yuo want a 2 door.

andres3

Drove up Palomar mountain hauling donkey butt today. At the top met a nice young couple in a '03 Honda S2000 with 95,000 miles that he said he got a couple thousand miles ago for 10 grand. Last of the 9K redline units he said. Bumble bee yellow with black interior, top down. He said it was only 2,500 pounds and was riding on 255/??R17 Enkei lightweight wheels on extreme summer tires. Also saw a Ferrari club arrive just after I did going up the other direction that I chose. Included a McClaren and Maserati in the group.

TTS drove great, sort of kart like in the tight winding roads by this great Palomar Mountain. Oil temps never exceeded 232 degrees. What is a too high oil temp anyways? Everything is digital, but at least in the new Audi that has brought back gauges I didn't used to have.

Oh, the S2000 owner has an '13 S4 daily driver and his former fun car was a '13 Golf R. He said my TTS was the first "new" one he had seen with the redesign this year.

flightnurse

andres3 said:

Drove up Palomar mountain hauling donkey butt today. .

I miss Palomar, I always liked the east side best, always had breakfast at Mothers at the top.

andres3

sweendogy said:

@andres3 I really feel for the story- last month my neighbor backed into the front quarter of my car. Damage just to the one panel (I hope)- I have been waiting on getting the car fixed- may wait another 6 months or so as my hope is to have it fixed correctly and then quickly trade in for the next model s4 which I'm guessing will be available at that time. The tale of issues you have had with your car would have driven me to roll it off a cliff.

@sweendogy It looks like you might have to wait a bit longer for the '17 S4 to be available, maybe not until '18 models role out. Have you looked into it? If it drops about 250 lbs as advertised, should be a hoot to drive.

Sandman6472

Drove a previous generation MB GLK, 2015, today at work. Loved the way it drove though not a big fan of driving a box around. Great engine with shift points that were so unobtrusive, I had to look at the tach a few times to make sure the car was indeed changing gears...totally seemless and quiet, was a real pleasure to drive and would be very happy to have a CPO model as my daily driver. Sure the mpg's are in the toilet but one doesn't purchase any luxury vehicle like this to get econocar gas mileage. Just like the maintenance, one just knows going in that driving these type of vehicles will cost more but it definitely is worth it for anyone who loves the automobile!
Just sorry that I didn't get anymore seat time in this puppy as 35 minutes was just not enough time to really get to enjoy it. Should be fun looking for my next vehicle...new or a CPO luxury brand. Since the next will probably be the last, really want something so out of character for me!!

The Sandman

flightnurse

So Car and Driver have a couple of interesting short take test drive

2018 S4
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-audi-s4-first-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=061616

Forst Fesita ST200 Euro model could be a fun little car

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ford-fiesta-st200-first-drive-review?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=061616

flightnurse

So it appears BMW will be bring over a 4 door 2 series for MY2018 I guess they think that segment will grow

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/919577/want-a-four-door-2-series-check-out-the-next-gen-1-sedan/