Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

nyccarguy

Have you ever driven a 2nd generation TSX?

billyperksii

All I am trying to say is enough with the Acura bashing, why not post about the car you own. If their balance sheets are struggling, sooner than later we will see dealerships starting to call it quits.
I have owned my TL 28 months to date and have never once gotten a negative re-mark. I have zero problems and it puts a smile and my face whenever I put in the twisties and punching it off a ramp.

shipo

"Currently BMW is not producing any Manuel [sic] 3 series cars (except M3.)"

Try as I might, I'm unable to get my brain around that claim.

Per the BMW USA web site, in addition to various "M" cars the following 18 models are available with a manual transmission:

- 128i
- 135i
- 328i (Sedan)
- 328xi (Sedan)
- 335i (Sedan)
- 335xi (Sedan)
- 328i (Coupe)
- 328xi (Coupe)
- 335i (Coupe)
- 335is (Coupe)
- 335xi (Coupe)
- 328i (Convertible)
- 335i (Convertible)
- 335is (Convertible)
- 328i (Sports Wagon)
- 328xi (Sports Wagon)
- 535i
- 550i

Do you know something BMW-USA doesn't know? :confuse:

sweendogy

I did not create the topic - it was started by another - "the great tsx debate" - now please rebut why the tsx should be here- also add what the brand has improved on- and where it's going -I have commented on both and it would be nice to get the other side that's unbiased.

Billy I have not stated anything that cant be backed up - reviews and sales numbers tell the story. I'm sorry you feel like the colts of the nfl. Manning is hurt maybe one day he will return to bring the team back to some relevant level.

markcincinnati

Who has the TSX? You (Sweendogy) or Billy? Who has what in other words.

So Sweendogy wants Billy to rebut (refute) why the TSX should be discussed in this forum, is that correct? Does this mean that Sweendogy wants the TSX to remain as one of the cars discussed here or not?

Isn't it true that the TSX is on this forum and no matter what we say it will stay?

I'm so confused. :confuse:

nyccarguy

Sween has an Infiniti G37X (?). He previously owned a 1st generation TSX that he thought was an exceptional car. He's part of the anti-TSX faction here on our lovely board.

I actually own a 2010 TSX w/ Technology Pkg (4 cyl)

sweendogy

actually i owned an 2000 integra Gs-r - close on the TSX but went 2003 jetta GLI instead then 08 infiniti G35x- and no i have never driven a newer TSX- first generation TSX was a great car, and i enjoyed the test drive- i was real close on it but went with the GLI because it was a (both were) 6 speed, was a tad quicker and won a head to head in some mag also had a VR6 eng and was 5k cheaper. Service between Acura and VW not close- and reliability of the GLI was no where near what I experianced with the GS-R.

billyperksii

Personally, I dont care if the TSX is here yes or no- I am not intrested in the car so I abstain myself from those post.
As to what you call advancement in terms of the G- I see it as just another model year change-
1). More horsepower (wow that's really advanced)
2). Added Coupe (Wow, technological breakthrough- I guess 1st in the industry)
3)Seven speed transmission that's giving a whole lot of trouble-see the Infiniti Boards- why not eight?-I thought they were advanced.
4). Sport Package- bigger wheels and front facia-(That's some sport)
Currently, Infiniti has nothing that would warrant a visit from me their showroom. Thats just my opinion.

nyccarguy

My bad. Almost everything will seem bloated compared to an Integra GSR. What'd that weigh 2600 lbs soaking wet with rocks in its pocket.

So your G is a G35X? Gotcha. You're happy with it I assume. Have you driven a G37X with the bigger 3.7 & 5 speed automatic? How do they cOmpare?

rayainsw

The G37x has 'Electronically controlled 7-speed automatic with Adaptive Shift Control (ASC) and Drive Sport (DS) mode'

nyccarguy

Whoops! I knew that. My bad. Thanks for the correction.

sweendogy

your opinion is fine and I guess you are not the target audience for the car-Reviewers and sales numbers support the public likes what they are doing.

1) yep HP is something that advances if MPG stay the same or get better - CHECK-
2) COUPE - yep thats something that others have - convertables as well- but some car companies do not play in these areas- they have a hard top convert as wel-
3)transmissions - car companies do have issues with them for sure- remember the 03 TL and others
4) more then you write is included including paddles - they also offered rear wheel steering on earlier models
5) you forgot to mention the sports line they released, sure its on a small number of cars but its something

currently, you are one of a few who dont see the hybrid technology, the performance and the value in the brand.

kdshapiro

Ya, know I feel the same about the TL, nothing to draw me into showroom. No disrepect for any TL owners.

The G does have sedan, coupe, convertible and IPL. Yes the seven speed is reported to give some trouble, I don't have trouble with mine. If I remember, Honda went through a set of issues of it's own related to the tranny.

The M model has hybrid solution, hope it trickles down to the G.

billyperksii

"currently, you are one of a few who dont see the hybrid technology, the performance and the value in the brand."
No I don't, sorry.
Please let us know the appreciating value in owning a G35 or any Infinit product or just plain simple any brand of car.

billyperksii

The M model has hybrid solution, hope it trickles down to the G."
So does this the Civic and the Accord.

markcincinnati

After 11 months with an Infiniti product, I have become a believer that they are producing cars that do warrant consideration especially if your other choice is a BMW. Of course, this Great Recession may be partially the cause of my "conversion." Despite the fact that I find the G too small (narrow), I believe it to be a bargain when compared to a 3 series. Max one of the G37X's out and it is, perhaps, $45K. Content the 3 as close as possible to the G and the price will be a lot higher.

BMW's are breathtakingly expensive to repair (and sometimes even maintain) after the 50,000 mile BMW bubble expires. The Infiniti we own -- FX35 -- seems to be pretty inexpensive to maintain, and the 7 speed transmission has been trouble free (and we are now at about 18K miles).

Everyone here is certainly entitled to not find anything attractive about a given brand or model within the brand -- and that is fine. However, if you have not recently taken an Infiniti (or any other car listed here on the masthead) out for a long test-drive, it seems unlikely that you can make a factual statement about the brand or specific model.

I know, for instance, that I have not driven a Lexus -- my opinion is that they are sofa's on wheels -- but that is only based on car magazine comments that I have read. I probably have my head up my nose in thinking that they are not "performance" cars. I plan to not opine any further on the brand since I know very little about them.

I really don't care if anyone test drives an Infiniti or an Acura -- I do care, somewhat, if a specific model is criticized but never driven. I participate in these boards to learn and to share experiences and opinions.

I do enjoy being regaled by owners' (or even car mavens who have tested so many cars it almost seems a career) stories about their experiences.

Keep 'em coming!

And. . .drive it like you live.

:shades:

sweendogy

Like the above statement - I still don't understand your argument but I respect your opinion. Net net agrument weak opinion strong.

kdshapiro

The Civic or Accord does not put out 350 horsepower nor are they luxury vehicles.

kdshapiro

There are some cases where serendipity happens and being an opinionated poseur is being 100% correct.

Lexus' , at least some models, are sofas on wheels. I took an ES350 on two extended test drives. There obviously is a market for them as there are quite a few on the road. They are nice cars, beautifully crafted, reliabile and a ton of tech.

I, however, wanted more toward sporty aspirations. TL was too big, turning radius too big, not convinced of the value of SHAWD. G37 has neck snapping acceleration and fit me like a glove. I didn't even want to look at the TL 2012.

As you aptly put it, outfit a 335 like a G37 and you are at $50 large.

To each their own, everybody has their own priorities of what they want and/or dislike in a vehicle.

nyccarguy

OK guys, we've been doing a lot of bickering disagreeing on the board lately. Let's try something different. If you've got any kind of driving experience (whether via test drive or ownership) with one of the ELLPS cars share with the group. I'll go first. Go to the bathroom & set your DVR, this is going to be a decent sized post.

Acura TSX: As you all know, I own a 2010 Acura TSX with Technology Package. It's the 2.4 L 4 cylinder mated to a 5 - Speed Automatic transmission. I originally bought the car for my wife when we had 2 kids and were 2 years into leasing a 2007 BMW X3. After 2 years we already had 38,000 miles on it (and were only alloted 45,000 for 3 years). On the last day of cash for clunkers I bought the TSX using a $3500 credit.

I think the TSX is handsome. Not head turning gorgeous like a 911 Turbo or 458 Italia. I definitely don't think it's ugly.

I like the engine/transmission combination. The engine winds all the way up to 7000 RPM very smoothly. Transmission shifts are crisp. The transmission will hold a gear and not upshift at the redline. I love the thickly bolstered seats & the well crafted interior. It rides fantastic. Comfortable, yet far from isolated. Handling for a FWD car is very good.

My main gripes with the car are it's lifeless electric power steering and it's crummy, straight from an Accord brakes.

Infiniti G37X: My Uncle had one and he let me drive it. I took it on a really nice, 45 minute drive. I came away extremely impressed with this car. kdshapiro hit the nail right on the head when he said: G37 has neck snapping acceleration and fit me like a glove. This car's 326 horsepower make it a bona fide road rocket. Handling is truly amazing. Excellent balance. I got in the car and found pefect seating right away. After 5 minutes, it felt like it was MINE. The car feels like it is turning on an axis. If it had gotten an EPA estimated 2 mpg more, I'd have one sitting in my drivewy right now. It didn't qualify for the $3500 C4C rebate though.

Lexus IS 350: I drove one at a Lexus event when this body style came out in 2006. I happen to like the car's styling. The interior was well crafted and well thought out. Acceleration was blazingly quick. I thought the suspension was too isolated, the brakes were instant on and had no pedal feel to them at all. The back seat was tiny too (this coming from a guy who drives a Prelude).

BMW E90 3 series: I have extensively driven an E90 328xiA & E90 335xiA. The 328xiA was my Mom's car that she leased for 3 years. Even the heaviest E90 sedan (AWD & Automatic) with the 240 hp NA I6 is a blast to drive. Handling was unbelieveable. The engine is so smooth. Brakes are fantastic. Very progressive and linear. I'm madly in love with this car. It is everything people rave about and more.

I had a 335xiA as a loaner a few times. It's torque is seductive. Pulls like a small V8 rather than a turbo 6. Amazing car.

My biggest gripes with the 3 series is its cramped back seat, small trunk, and hefty price. I know it is a BMW and you get what you pay for. flightnurse, you happened to find a "perfect" driver's car sitting on a lot and got a helluva deal on it. My Mom's was an '08 328xiA with premium, cold weather, automatic, metallic paint, parking sensors, & manual sunshades (no sport, nav, or comfort access). It stickered for over $46,000. It is very easy for a 335 to get in the $50K range.

Questions? Comments?

billyperksii

Mark, I dont just blabber about a car and read some article in a magazine. I actually test drove the G35X for an extensive time. The salesperson actually gave me the keys and said have fun but be careful.
I wanted to try another brand because my previous car was the 2003 TL Type S, the G just did not do it for me, I tried to force myself to like it but I just knew it would have been buyers remorse.
Here are the deal breakers and I have said this many a times-
1).Too cramp (mazda millennia interior size)
2). Intrusive growl (could get annoying a long road trips)
3). I just felt beat up after the test drive

I have nothing against the brand, maybe the next generation G will sway me but from what I seen with the new styling cues on the M, G coupe and FX-I think I will step on my accelerator when I go by an Infiniti dealership.

sweendogy

Finally some substance. I agree the G could be a little cramped when compared to a TL or Buick- infact there have been complaints from bigger drivers that the cars seats are a problem. The growl is something that older folks have also complained about- the coupe does have a very intense growl when pushed in the city. The 07 and 08s sedans for sure also make sounds - this is something that can be heard when screeching from red light to red light bit not at 70mph on the highway- the newer g37 sedan has toned down the rear sound to make it more of a cruiser and to accommodate the older folks who complained. As I type Im getting ready for an 800 mile was coast tour which I'm dreading because we are not taking my g- we have to take my wifes cr-v because its roomier- the g is not a problem at all on long trips, I mean it's not a 89 covrvette - its a great highway cruiser when asked.

Styling is subjective so can't argue.

nyccarguy

The original IS300 was a great 1st entry into this segment. Razor sharp handling & excellent brakes. It's 215 horsepower I6 was outgunned by the BMW E46 328i (and then by the 330i) and it got not so great fuel economy (and this is when gas was cheap). Lexus owners complained about the "rough ride.". Lexus brought the car in to compete with BMW's E36, but the E46 was already on its way by the time the IS300 hit our shores. They brought brass knuckles to a gun fight.

They brought the 300 hp IS 350 (automatic only). Toyota Corporate V6. 0-60 in the mid 5s instead of the low 7s. Brakes that provided excellent stopping distance, but with not much pedal feel. Lexus was very high on their 300 hp number vs. 255 in BMW's recently released E90 330i.

I drove the Lexus IS350 back to back with a 330i at their event. The Lexus out accelerated the BMW, but just felt very artificial compared to the very athletic BMW.

The IS250 had no power.

The problem with the IS350 was that only a year after its release was sent packing by BMW's N54 twin turbo 300 hp I6.

I think Lexus is waiting to see the next 3 series to finalize the next IS. They might just hit one out this time.

billyperksii

Sween-Good luck on your road trip and dont forget the Roadside Assistance number.

kdshapiro

Nah, might only need it if one drives and Acura.

sweendogy

It's a Honda no roadside needed.

tlong

I wanted to try another brand because my previous car was the 2003 TL Type S, the G just did not do it for me, I tried to force myself to like it but I just knew it would have been buyers remorse.

When I was looking for a new 2005 ELLPS, I looked at the G35 along with the TL. The G35 was noticeably a bit narrow, but not a show stopper for me. I actually like a bit smaller cars. I thought the TL's interior was nicer. I drove the G35 and noticed the major power, along with a major growl. I didn't like the lack of refinement. The TL was smooth and quiet.

I then drove the G35 on a transition ramp between two freeways that you can take at about 55mph. There is a perpendicular concrete seam with a bit of elevation difference on this ramp, so going over it, the car jolts a bit and it is on a fast curve. On the TL, the car was steady over the bump. On the G35, the steering wheel jerked pretty hard and I really had to be holding it tight or it would have jerked out of my hand. Not so on the TL. Based upon that experience, the TL won. I just turned 115K on my TL today, and I've only had to replace a window actuator along with normal maintenance and an outside air temp gauge recall. No other mechanical issues.

kdshapiro

Unless the tranny goes.

sweendogy

It's a 2011. We should be fine- but I do have roadside help if needed.

dino001

Hahahahahahahaha

I just got 328i wagon with manual. Picked it up two month ago in Munich and again yesterday in Spartanburg, SC Performance Center. So, unless I'm in the Matrix-like dream world, I can vouch personally that they make a non-M manual transmission car, even in least "cool" body type. :P

All it takes is go to a dealer and order it (yeah, the may not have one on their lot, but it does exist).