Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

kyfdx

How can the E codes be good for BMW for 40 years, but it only took 10 years to blow through the F codes, and now it's G?

carnaught

While I'm sure the drive is much better, I hope the interior is more revolutionary than evolutionary in change than the exterior.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

How can the E codes be good for BMW for 40 years, but it only took 10 years to blow through the F codes, and now it's G?

Because now every permutation gets a new number. The E36 code covered every 3 Series body style as well as the M3 and Z3. Now, each body style and M car gets its own number. It's just silly.

roadburner

carnaught said:

While I'm sure the drive is much better, I hope the interior is more revolutionary than evolutionary in change than the exterior.

That's SOP for Munich, every extensive redesign is followed by a more conservative replacement. See: E12, E28, E34, E39, E60, F10. The G30 is the low key model transformation.

andres3

Audi Club guys like to refer to their A4's and S4's as B5 or B6, or B7, or B8, or now B9 A4's and S4's.

Personally, I think it's easier to remember date ranges for a model, like '10-'16 A4's and S4's are either B8 or get this; B8.5

dino001

Year ranges are fine, but can be tricky, when certain model variations carry longer than others. Example: 2012 328 sedan was F30, but all other bodies were still E9x, like my wagon. IIRC 3-series convertible carried all through 2013, before being replaced by 2014 F3x 4-series.

tlong

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

How can the E codes be good for BMW for 40 years, but it only took 10 years to blow through the F codes, and now it's G?

Because now every permutation gets a new number. The E36 code covered every 3 Series body style as well as the M3 and Z3. Now, each body style and M car gets its own number. It's just silly.

They should handle it like software versions. You could be driving an E36.2.2!

smallinjeck

I personally love Mercedes C-Class. Besides its prestigious status, this sedan is spacious and very easy to drive.

stickguy

We sat in one at the car show. It was a nice impressive package. My wife loved it a lot.

PF_Flyer

If you recently sold or traded in a BMW for a Mercedes, Jaguar, Volvo, Audi or Cadillac vehicle, a reporter would be interested in speaking with you about your experience. Please send a note to PR@Edmunds.com no later than 5 p.m. EST on Tuesday, Jan. 31, 2017. Thanks!

sweendogy

I'm back..... Noticed this forum still going which is nice to see.. Update 2013 B8.5 s4 now has 35k miles. No problems thus far with just routine maintenance to report along with one quarter panel needed to be replaced after the neighbor backed into it last feb. Just recently had the 35k service done which also included a transmission flush and filter replacement. Funny thing about Audi service they don't advertise Audi care - which you can bundle 2 10k services for 800 bux. Not cheap but considering the 35k service alone I was quoted 900 - and that's just for One service.
Car performs great in all weather - snow tires are a huge plus for this car up north and make it unstoppable while moving just don't try to get it thru a snow bank more the 8 inches

andres3

Dealership service rates have gone mad.

sweendogy

Wow haven't been here since February - and well nothing has changed - update 2013 s4 warrantee just expired - so 4 year old Audi 37k miles (remember I bot it 10 months old with 14k). Do I trade it for a CPO? Buy a new one? Or keep it (love it) knowing the service bell will be ringing at some point around 40k?

Help needed

cdnpinhead

Two people drive this board, and you're one of them. Welcome back.

stickguy

I assume it counts, but last week I test drove a V6 TLX advance. It was very nice.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I assume it counts, but last week I test drove a V6 TLX advance. It was very nice.

The deals on the TLX are supposed to be very nice right now. I've heard it's possible to get as much as $7k off of list on the V-6 model.

benjaminh

Entry-level luxury sales for April:

C-Class 7,821 +38.5%

TLX 5,258 +44.5%

3series 3,494 -25.4%

ES 3,400 -20.5%

A4 3,246 +8.8%

MKZ 2,658 +24.8%

Q50 2,559 -30.3%

IS 2,154 -15.7%

LaCrosse 1,983 +9.4%

ATS 1,405 -19.1%

Seems like Acura probably has major incentives on the previously slow-selling TLX. It sold more than the BMW 3-series!? A refreshed 2018 TLX is coming out in a few months iirc.

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

I assume it counts, but last week I test drove a V6 TLX advance. It was very nice.

The deals on the TLX are supposed to be very nice right now. I've heard it's possible to get as much as $7k off of list on the V-6 model.

Should be able to do better than that.. $6250 of incentives on the V-6 model.

ab348

Has Acura fixed the transmission issues on the TLX V-6 model?

benjaminh

kyfdx said:

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

I assume it counts, but last week I test drove a V6 TLX advance. It was very nice.

The deals on the TLX are supposed to be very nice right now. I've heard it's possible to get as much as $7k off of list on the V-6 model.

Should be able to do better than that.. $6250 of incentives on the V-6 model.

Wow. What are the incentives on the 4-cylinder TLX?

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

kyfdx said:

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

I assume it counts, but last week I test drove a V6 TLX advance. It was very nice.

The deals on the TLX are supposed to be very nice right now. I've heard it's possible to get as much as $7k off of list on the V-6 model.

Should be able to do better than that.. $6250 of incentives on the V-6 model.

Wow. What are the incentives on the 4-cylinder TLX?

$5500

graphicguy

stickguy said:

I assume it counts, but last week I test drove a V6 TLX advance. It was very nice.

Driven the TLX a couple of times (V6). If those incentives were going on when I was looking, my choice might have been different (ended up with a Q50 3.0T, which I like quite a bit).

While only test drives, I never experienced the untoward behavior of the 9-speed transmission in the V6 TLX that others reported. That said, the ones I drove were all in the last 18 mos, and perhaps Acura addressed those issues.

Be interested in the '18 TLX to see if they tweaked more than just the styling.

stickguy

I drove a 2015, with about 30k on it. Trans seemed fine. The 2018s hit in June I think per salesguy. If I was buying now, would jump on a 4 cyl tech with all the incentives. Maybe the 18s are worth waiting for, but who knows what the deals will be like at year end.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

I drove a 2015, with about 30k on it. Trans seemed fine. The 2018s hit in June I think per salesguy. If I was buying now, would jump on a 4 cyl tech with all the incentives. Maybe the 18s are worth waiting for, but who knows what the deals will be like at year end.

Agreed. That said, dealers are going to try to hold to MSRP on the '18s for as long as they can. I might look at them this time next year. But, for right now, a $45K '17 TLX SH-AWD ADVANCE would probably be in the realm of $35-$36K. The 4 cyl would probably be close, or maybe even below $30K. Both would be a screaming deal on a fun, reliable car.

flightnurse

graphicguy said:

Driven the TLX a couple of times (V6). If those incentives were going on when I was looking, my choice might have been different (ended up with a Q50 3.0T, which I like quite a bit).

Don't say it's so

andres3

sweendogy said:

Wow haven't been here since February - and well nothing has changed - update 2013 s4 warrantee just expired - so 4 year old Audi 37k miles (remember I bot it 10 months old with 14k). Do I trade it for a CPO? Buy a new one? Or keep it (love it) knowing the service bell will be ringing at some point around 40k?

Help needed

You'll be fine. The B8.5 S4 is one of the finest cars ever made. Find a good indy shop for the services. My TTS was quoted $450 (w/ DSG) for the 35K service. I imagine the S4 would be within 10% of that at most.

I can't imagine (if you've had no issues the first 37K miles) that you'll have any issues the next 37K miles.

sweendogy

Andres3 - yes no issues yet and I enjoy it a great deal. Was told I need new summer tires soon which will be expensive.

The sales numbers quoted above are they m/m or y/y for a said month? TLX awd at somewhere near 35k is a scream - styling aside as someone said rock solid cars. Have to feel bad for Acura- it seems Honda is leaving all the good stuff (save for nsx) under the Honda umbrella. Cr-v, New civic - civic si - and type r - never hear anything about Acura. do they ever advertise there sedans ?

stickguy

Acura got out of the sporty/hot car deal a while ago. And they do have a Civic and CRV (ILX and RDX). They are both just ready to be replaced. For the last models, they followed about 6-12 months after the Honda doner car was redesigned.

graphicguy

flightnurse said:

graphicguy said:

Driven the TLX a couple of times (V6). If those incentives were going on when I was looking, my choice might have been different (ended up with a Q50 3.0T, which I like quite a bit).

Don't say it's so

Already did......

stickguy

I had my eye on the TLX all along. Though I did kinda forget about it there for a while, but now back on the list. At least the wife likes it a lot too, which of course will make my life more pleasant!

sweendogy

Seems acura got out of the sedan/car biz for what seems 10 years ... Maybe more. They used to compete vs Lexus. Now it seems Buick.

sda

If I was in the market now the TLX with technology 4 or V6 would be high on my list. I have been very pleased with Honda products.

andres3

sda said:

If I was in the market now the TLX with technology 4 or V6 would be high on my list. I have been very pleased with Honda products.

I think even Honda fans will Admit that there's a reason Acura can't get much more than 90% of MSRP on their sedans the last decade or so though. Combination of overpriced and under-delivering in my opinion.

Acura needs it mojo back. I think Infinity is the new Honda/Acura, and Honda/Acura has become Buick.

Maybe the new Civic Si, Type R, and NSX will prove me wrong, but the NSX is a niche product.

sweendogy

While I agree Acura has become Buick - don't get me going on them- Infiniti has become even more irrelevant. While Acura has the MDX, Infiniti has zero products that are upper third (half) of any category in Luxury market. They used to have the g sedan and coupe (something Acura and Lexus forgot about) that actually sold and could compare to BMW 3.

qbrozen

Yeah, it doesn't compare. it has surpassed the 3.

sweendogy

If you are talking Mazda 3 I agree. Infiniti doesn't want it's used cars back. (I would guess BMW is similar) http://www.startribune.com/flood-of-off-lease-used-cars-push-prices-down-upend-market/424537303/

roadburner

At my dealer we take in a lot of the off-lease BMWs and sell them as CPO or CPO Elite cars.

tlong

When I bought my 2005 Acura TL in late 2004, Acura was on a roll with the best looking car (IMHO, still love that styling) and Infiniti had the G35 which was also a looker and doing well. Fast forward 12 years and Acura has lost it, and so seems has Infiniti, at least in the sporty sedan arena. Audi is resurgent and BMW is treading water/surviving on it's long standing reputation. And I think cars in general are less of an interest than then, with Tesla/electrics, hybrids, Uber, Lyft all competing for transportation, along with gadgets and the internet for people's cash.

flightnurse

sda said:

If I was in the market now the TLX with technology 4 or V6 would be high on my list. I have been very pleased with Honda products.

Local Acura dealers are discounting the TLX 4 cyl with tech 7K. Not too sure if a TLX is a good idea unless you are shopping strictly on price.

stickguy

I really like the TLX. Just fits me well.

sweendogy

TL TLX amazed how Acura got it wrong... Here is the new TLX http://blog.caranddriver.com/fresh-faced-value-2018-acura-tlx-pricing-announced/

flightnurse

Went and drove a 4 cyl with Tech and 6 cyl W/ tech and was disappointed. I think Acura is the new Infiniti in which they lost their Mojo. It's sad to see this, it's even sadder that Infiniti has to use German Engines and Transmissions to get the powertrain right... It's even sadder that they are discounting the TLX do much to move them off the lots.

stickguy

I have not driven a 4 cyl yet, but really liked the 6 cyl I tried. But that is why they make so many different cars. something for (almost) everyone!

the big discounts now are thanks to clearing out for the new model.

Just curious, but what was so disappointing?

flightnurse

stickguy said:

I have not driven a 4 cyl yet, but really liked the 6 cyl I tried. But that is why they make so many different cars. something for (almost) everyone!

the big discounts now are thanks to clearing out for the new model.

Just curious, but what was so disappointing?

The big discounts is really because every car magazine panned and they aren't selling. The V6 does not feel like it has 290hp, in Sport+ the transmission does not shift and crisp and sharp as the 4 cyl. Now I will give the seats major props here very comfortable. The car drove with typical Japanese blandness very isolated feeling. Now, there is nothing wrong with that if that is your thing. The dealer I went really wanted me to take a 6cyl w/Tech but didn't see the real value in it. The only difference between a 4 and 6cyl Tech package is the engine and transmission there is not additional equipment in the 6 cyl since more manufacturers add features Honda/Acura does not.

sweendogy

Infiniti and Acura are lost for sure... Lexus has at least made the effort with the (ugly?) IS.... They also have the volume es and rx to help the rest of the fleet. Infiniti has 2 highly discounted sedan and suv (pathfinder q) that I guess is the reason Nissan gives them a lifeline. Acura has one real product the MDX. Yes they have a super car which is cool but unfortunately in its current stable you can't look down the line and say it has a real bloodline. The old nsx had the integra r and gsr (had one) to point to.

andres3

I agree Acura seems to be lost; they gave up on their 3.7 engine, which is strange for Honda/Acura to give up on an engine so quickly.

Infinity, while the Q40/50/60S are all heavy cars, they do have a 400 HP Red-Line and 3.0 L turbocharged power-trains. They seem to be making an effort. I thought the 2.0T was an Infinity engine that Mercedes was using. If it is a Mercedes engine that Infinity is using, it does seem like a strange partnership.

Acura needs an ILX-S or ILX-R. TLX-S?

flightnurse

andres3 said:

I agree Acura seems to be lost; they gave up on their 3.7 engine, which is strange for Honda/Acura to give up on an engine so quickly.

Infinity, while the Q40/50/60S are all heavy cars, they do have a 400 HP Red-Line and 3.0 L turbocharged power-trains. They seem to be making an effort. I thought the 2.0T was an Infinity engine that Mercedes was using. If it is a Mercedes engine that Infinity is using, it does seem like a strange partnership.

Acura needs an ILX-S or ILX-R. TLX-S?

I'm thinking Acura will be dropping a turbo 4 into the TLX within the next 2 yrs. Honda will have a Turbo 4 in the Accord next year.

Infiniti had to dump the VQ V6 it was a thirsty engine but don't understand why they had to go to MB for their engine...

flightnurse

Out with the old and in with the new. It was time to get a new car, my first choice was the Alfa loved how it drove, and for the price hard to beat, but when it came to lease payments, yicks... Basically told the dealer when they were serious about selling the car to call me.
Volvo S60, nice car, but the MF and RV is horrible, so I moved on.
Acura the dealer wanted to move a car, but wasn't all that thrilled on how it drive, either the 4-6 cyl
Lexus IS, drove well, even though the dealer wanted to move a unit, the RV and MF were high as well as lease payments.
MB I don't like the C sedan, even the C43 again they wanted to move a unit but the payments were high.

I went with a 2017 330i that was a service loaner, 2500 miles, Drivers assistance package, Premium Package, Nav, heated seats, Apple Car Play, 18: rims. 41K out the door, 2100 out of pocket, for fees, first month, and a small Cap reduction.

Have to say BMW has firmed up the standard suspension, to almost perfect, I have the same rims and Rick's GT, however, I have 225-45-18's, Ricks are 225-50-18. This car is light on its feet, the new B48 engine is a Gem, much much quieter than my 320i at idle, it drives like how a BMW should. I'm getting the car coded for added features and installing a BMS JB4 for added power.

qbrozen

Warning: the BMS will void your warranty. Unless the dealers have started offering it, which would shock me.

stickguy

sounds like the car I would look at later in the year (the service loaner lease part). What did the before tax payment end up being on that?