Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

graphicguy

Wow.....this old thread is back. Got really contentious in here for a while so I ignored it. Good to see it in friendlier confines.

Just saw a review of both the new Camry and Accord. Camry has NEVER been my cup 'o tea. But, seeing it, what it offers, and comparing it to something like a Lexus ES300 or IS, and the lines begin to blur. Same or similar drivetrains, all loaded up, and more than just a nod to similar styling, ELLSS become harder to differentiate from their parent company.

While not Entry Level new....how about now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f83A2CW-Lt0&t=17s

Mr_Shiftright

A car with that MSRP came with a battery tender? LOL!

flightnurse

roadburner said:

john4545 said:

Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

Probably closer than you think if the 330i has the base suspension. If the 3er has the M Sport or the Adaptive M Suspension all bets are off. Neither car is a rocket sled, but the with a 0-60 in the mid-fives and a fourteen second quarter mile 330i is about 0.5 seconds quicker than the Mazda. The 330i will likely return better fuel economy, especially if equipped wit the superb ZF 8HP automatic.

I don't like FWD in anything larger than a Mini Cooper, so I'd go with the 330i- in RWD of course.

Interesting, now I came from a base suspension 320, to a base suspension 330i and the two are worlds difference. The 330 feels more planted, doesn't want to push as much in the corner and I know I can take my fave on and off ramps faster. I feel that the base suspension on the 2016 and newer 3 series is better than before. Now Rick's GT has the Adaptive suspension and I like it, I wish mine had it.. But overall I can't see how a Mazda 6 would come close to a base 3 series on a road course or figure 8

flightnurse

tlong said:

Also prices have continued to skyrocket in ELLPS. I know what I bought my Audi A4 for in 1998, and I'm not gonna spend my money on their current prices. So ELLPS is more or less out of what I want to pay.

However there are some decently compelling "mundane" cars that can be loaded up to levels that approach (and sometimes exceed) ELLPS. If you want the badge then you go ELLPS. If you want much of the actual benefit and to save some cash, then dropping down a market notch is not a bad idea.

LOL ah, the good old day when ELLPS were cheap... The price of your 1998 A4 is the same cost of a middle-level Nissan Altma.. Have fun with one of those.

tlong

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well that's the whole marketing scheme isn't it? To dangle a few extra baubles in front of the consumer so that he upgrades? I mean, isn't advertising about making you dissatisfied with what you already own? Certainly, that seems to drive the leasing of ELLPS, at any rate.

That's true in most markets, not just cars.
If you want the best you pay $$$$
If you are happy at 70-80% you can pay perhaps 50% of the high end.
Examples:

• Smart phones
  
• TVs
  
• Computers
  
• Watches (more than a 2:1 ratio here!)
  
• I'm sure many more
  

benjaminh

For reliability, according to Consumer Reports, Lexus is at the top and Cadillac is at the bottom....

"Toyota led the way with a predicted new-car reliability score of 80 on a 100-point scale, with Toyota's luxury brand Lexus right behind at 77. In last year's ranking, Lexus was No. 1 and Toyota was No. 2.

“All the way down at the bottom is Cadillac, which is just really very disappointing because these cars are great,” Fisher said at the luncheon. “Anyone who's driven a Cadillac lately realizes that this is a very competitive, luxury car [brand] but unfortunately, there’s a lot of reliability issues."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

dino001

benjaminh said:

For reliability, according to Consumer Reports, Lexus is at the top and Cadillac is at the bottom....

"Toyota led the way with a predicted new-car reliability score of 80 on a 100-point scale, with Toyota's luxury brand Lexus right behind at 77. In last year's ranking, Lexus was No. 1 and Toyota was No. 2.

“All the way down at the bottom is Cadillac, which is just really very disappointing because these cars are great,” Fisher said at the luncheon. “Anyone who's driven a Cadillac lately realizes that this is a very competitive, luxury car [brand] but unfortunately, there’s a lot of reliability issues."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

I find Audi, BMW and Kia at top almost shocking. Especially Audi. Interestingly enough, VW is way to the bottom, so it seems even though they share some parts, the overall QC must be much better there. Also, Porsche being closer to VW than to Audi is interesting.

I will believe Chrysler's improvement (it jumped over other domestics) if it remains there for a few years. And where is Fiat? Off the scale?

andres3

dino001 said:

benjaminh said:

For reliability, according to Consumer Reports, Lexus is at the top and Cadillac is at the bottom....

"Toyota led the way with a predicted new-car reliability score of 80 on a 100-point scale, with Toyota's luxury brand Lexus right behind at 77. In last year's ranking, Lexus was No. 1 and Toyota was No. 2.

“All the way down at the bottom is Cadillac, which is just really very disappointing because these cars are great,” Fisher said at the luncheon. “Anyone who's driven a Cadillac lately realizes that this is a very competitive, luxury car [brand] but unfortunately, there’s a lot of reliability issues."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

I find Audi, BMW and Kia at top almost shocking. Especially Audi. Interestingly enough, VW is way to the bottom, so it seems even though they share some parts, the overall QC must be much better there. Also, Porsche being closer to VW than to Audi is interesting.

I will believe Chrysler's improvement (it jumped over other domestics) if it remains there for a few years. And where is Fiat? Off the scale?

Audi's been providing the icing with the cake since the mid 2000's. Where have you been?
Pretty darn consistent at the top right behind Lexus for luxury makes the last 5 years or so. Still, not at Lexus reliability levels yet (or ever).

I think we all saw Cadillac tumbling coming based on @graphicguy experiences. Unlike some that write-off personal experiences reported here as anecdotal, I take it to likely be "par" for the course as that is statistically most likely to happen. BMW's improvement is both significant and recent. They weren't that hot in prior years.

Kia has been inching toward the top for awhile now too. One of the reasons I got one, as they surpassed Honda and Acura for a few years now. Audi's QC is most definitely superior to VW's. Has been for a long time, and most Audi's are still made in Europe while VW's in Mexico.

As to Chrysler's improvement, they had no where to go but up.

tlong

Kind of amazing how Honda has slipped. And Acura much more so.

flightnurse

andres3 said:

Audi's been providing the icing with the cake since the mid 2000's. Where have you been?
Pretty darn consistent at the top right behind Lexus for luxury makes the last 5 years or so. Still, not at Lexus reliability levels yet (or ever).

I think we all saw Cadillac tumbling coming based on @graphicguy experiences. Unlike some that write-off personal experiences reported here as anecdotal, I take it to likely be "par" for the course as that is statistically most likely to happen. BMW's improvement is both significant and recent. They weren't that hot in prior years.

Kia has been inching toward the top for awhile now too. One of the reasons I got one, as they surpassed Honda and Acura for a few years now. Audi's QC is most definitely superior to VW's. Has been for a long time, and most Audi's are still made in Europe while VW's in Mexico.

As to Chrysler's improvement, they had no where to go but up.

So his experience with Audi didn't count?

qbrozen

dino001 said:

For reliability, according to Consumer Reports, Lexus is at the top and Cadillac is at the bottom.... "Toyota led the way with a predicted new-car reliability score of 80 on a 100-point scale, with Toyota's luxury brand Lexus right behind at 77. In last year's ranking, Lexus was No. 1 and Toyota was No. 2. “All the way down at the bottom is Cadillac, which is just really very disappointing because these cars are great,” Fisher said at the luncheon. “Anyone who's driven a Cadillac lately realizes that this is a very competitive, luxury car [brand] but unfortunately, there’s a lot of reliability issues." http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

I find Audi, BMW and Kia at top almost shocking. Especially Audi. Interestingly enough, VW is way to the bottom, so it seems even though they share some parts, the overall QC must be much better there. Also, Porsche being closer to VW than to Audi is interesting. I will believe Chrysler's improvement (it jumped over other domestics) if it remains there for a few years. And where is Fiat? Off the scale?

I am also wondering about Fiat. They were WAY down at the tail end before, so I'm pretty sure there is still one worse than Caddy.

pensfan83

I guess there isn't enough data for Alfa Romeo yet?

dino001

flightnurse said:

andres3 said:

Audi's been providing the icing with the cake since the mid 2000's. Where have you been?
Pretty darn consistent at the top right behind Lexus for luxury makes the last 5 years or so. Still, not at Lexus reliability levels yet (or ever).

I think we all saw Cadillac tumbling coming based on @graphicguy experiences. Unlike some that write-off personal experiences reported here as anecdotal, I take it to likely be "par" for the course as that is statistically most likely to happen. BMW's improvement is both significant and recent. They weren't that hot in prior years.

Kia has been inching toward the top for awhile now too. One of the reasons I got one, as they surpassed Honda and Acura for a few years now. Audi's QC is most definitely superior to VW's. Has been for a long time, and most Audi's are still made in Europe while VW's in Mexico.

As to Chrysler's improvement, they had no where to go but up.

So his experience with Audi didn't count?

Well, I didn't have much experience with Audi, except my late dad's 2004 A4 TDI (in Poland) that's still with the family, but enough people complained about it even on Edmund's forums, like GG's infamous S4 problems and inept response from the service departments (this was before his even more disastrous CTS when the service guy blamed "wrong gas" for for problems with the entertainment system). BTW, I have to say from years of posting, GG looks like a magnet for bad cars.

I'm sure Audi improved, I just found very surprising that they are now at top 3. BTW, I was happy to see BMW also climbing to near top. I wonder if Audi will offer similar warranty to VW (6/72 btb!), or perhaps they're doing well enough and VW is just putting a last ditch effort to salvage the market.

stickguy

Acura is probably entirely related to the 9 speed AT

ab348

flightnurse said:

So his experience with Audi didn't count?

Nor with BMW or Toyota. I guess my 2 flawless Cadillacs don't count either.

stickguy

Well, in a survey, any individual response really doesn't mean much.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

Acura is probably entirely related to the 9 speed AT

dino....seems that way, doesn't it.

Stick....I think that ZF transmission was an issue for Acura. While I never owned the '15 TLX, from what I understand the trans was tuned ALL WRONG in that drivetrain.

The one in my '19 behaves quite well and reminds me a whole lot of the ZF trans I had in my 335i several years ago.

So, perhaps Honda/Acura got all of that sorted out with ZF.

stickguy

quite likely. there is also some time lag to those surveys, so what you buy today may be different than what got dinged.

besides, at this point, with very few exceptions (ALfa?) the bar is set so high, that even the "worst" brand is pretty darned good. especially considered where most were not all that long ago.

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

dino001 said:

benjaminh said:

For reliability, according to Consumer Reports, Lexus is at the top and Cadillac is at the bottom....

"Toyota led the way with a predicted new-car reliability score of 80 on a 100-point scale, with Toyota's luxury brand Lexus right behind at 77. In last year's ranking, Lexus was No. 1 and Toyota was No. 2.

“All the way down at the bottom is Cadillac, which is just really very disappointing because these cars are great,” Fisher said at the luncheon. “Anyone who's driven a Cadillac lately realizes that this is a very competitive, luxury car [brand] but unfortunately, there’s a lot of reliability issues."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

I find Audi, BMW and Kia at top almost shocking. Especially Audi. Interestingly enough, VW is way to the bottom, so it seems even though they share some parts, the overall QC must be much better there. Also, Porsche being closer to VW than to Audi is interesting.

I will believe Chrysler's improvement (it jumped over other domestics) if it remains there for a few years. And where is Fiat? Off the scale?

Audi's been providing the icing with the cake since the mid 2000's. Where have you been?
Pretty darn consistent at the top right behind Lexus for luxury makes the last 5 years or so. Still, not at Lexus reliability levels yet (or ever).

I think we all saw Cadillac tumbling coming based on @graphicguy experiences. Unlike some that write-off personal experiences reported here as anecdotal, I take it to likely be "par" for the course as that is statistically most likely to happen. BMW's improvement is both significant and recent. They weren't that hot in prior years.

Kia has been inching toward the top for awhile now too. One of the reasons I got one, as they surpassed Honda and Acura for a few years now. Audi's QC is most definitely superior to VW's. Has been for a long time, and most Audi's are still made in Europe while VW's in Mexico.

As to Chrysler's improvement, they had no where to go but up.

I wouldn't give Audi that much slack, to say that they were reliable in the mid 2000s. I think it took a few years longer than that for them to get quality control UNDER control.

andres3

flightnurse said:

andres3 said:

Audi's been providing the icing with the cake since the mid 2000's. Where have you been?
Pretty darn consistent at the top right behind Lexus for luxury makes the last 5 years or so. Still, not at Lexus reliability levels yet (or ever).

I think we all saw Cadillac tumbling coming based on @graphicguy experiences. Unlike some that write-off personal experiences reported here as anecdotal, I take it to likely be "par" for the course as that is statistically most likely to happen. BMW's improvement is both significant and recent. They weren't that hot in prior years.

Kia has been inching toward the top for awhile now too. One of the reasons I got one, as they surpassed Honda and Acura for a few years now. Audi's QC is most definitely superior to VW's. Has been for a long time, and most Audi's are still made in Europe while VW's in Mexico.

As to Chrysler's improvement, they had no where to go but up.

So his experience with Audi didn't count?

Oh it counted, and is the reason Audi didn't ever surpass Lexus.

However, I will say the problems he experienced with one Audi pale in comparison to 3 Cadillac's in a row he had.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

andres3 said:

dino001 said:

benjaminh said:

For reliability, according to Consumer Reports, Lexus is at the top and Cadillac is at the bottom....

"Toyota led the way with a predicted new-car reliability score of 80 on a 100-point scale, with Toyota's luxury brand Lexus right behind at 77. In last year's ranking, Lexus was No. 1 and Toyota was No. 2.

“All the way down at the bottom is Cadillac, which is just really very disappointing because these cars are great,” Fisher said at the luncheon. “Anyone who's driven a Cadillac lately realizes that this is a very competitive, luxury car [brand] but unfortunately, there’s a lot of reliability issues."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

I find Audi, BMW and Kia at top almost shocking. Especially Audi. Interestingly enough, VW is way to the bottom, so it seems even though they share some parts, the overall QC must be much better there. Also, Porsche being closer to VW than to Audi is interesting.

I will believe Chrysler's improvement (it jumped over other domestics) if it remains there for a few years. And where is Fiat? Off the scale?

Audi's been providing the icing with the cake since the mid 2000's. Where have you been?
Pretty darn consistent at the top right behind Lexus for luxury makes the last 5 years or so. Still, not at Lexus reliability levels yet (or ever).

I think we all saw Cadillac tumbling coming based on @graphicguy experiences. Unlike some that write-off personal experiences reported here as anecdotal, I take it to likely be "par" for the course as that is statistically most likely to happen. BMW's improvement is both significant and recent. They weren't that hot in prior years.

Kia has been inching toward the top for awhile now too. One of the reasons I got one, as they surpassed Honda and Acura for a few years now. Audi's QC is most definitely superior to VW's. Has been for a long time, and most Audi's are still made in Europe while VW's in Mexico.

As to Chrysler's improvement, they had no where to go but up.

I wouldn't give Audi that much slack, to say that they were reliable in the mid 2000s. I think it took a few years longer than that for them to get quality control UNDER control.

Well, they did tend to have AC issues, intake module issues, fuel pump and cam follower issues, and maybe a couple other things (like open sky double moon-roof issues, window regulator issues, and center console latch issue). For a lot of those things they issued super long courtesy 7 year 120 K warranties though as goodwill, and the failure rate was far from 100%. I had a window regulator and AC go bad, and I needed the intake module replaced on my A3 by 106,000 miles (didn't opt for the Open sky so you can't break what you don't have).

Getting a big check to reimburse me for the intake module after the fact went a long way towards making me forget some of those minor issues. Still, considering I drove it like I stole it, was a reliable 06 model.

It was no Lexus, but it wasn't a Neon either. For example, the A3 never needed to be towed.

andres3

ab348 said:

flightnurse said:

So his experience with Audi didn't count?

Nor with BMW or Toyota. I guess my 2 flawless Cadillacs don't count either.

They count, but you've only had the 2nd one for how long? @qbrozen had a good experience with one too, but he owned it for about as long as a Neon is reliable too.

Still, batting .666 or so with cars isn't good. Anyone else around here own a good Caddy recently?

andres3

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

Acura is probably entirely related to the 9 speed AT

dino....seems that way, doesn't it.

Stick....I think that ZF transmission was an issue for Acura. While I never owned the '15 TLX, from what I understand the trans was tuned ALL WRONG in that drivetrain.

The one in my '19 behaves quite well and reminds me a whole lot of the ZF trans I had in my 335i several years ago.

So, perhaps Honda/Acura got all of that sorted out with ZF.

You didn't own the Infiniti long enough, but it seems the Asian brands are your anti/counter-magnet to getting bad cars as @dino001 put it.

flightnurse

iluvmysephia1 said:

Why not wonder if a Kia Rio handles just as good as a 330i.

Check out this review - it might.

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2017/10/first-drive-2018-kia-rio/

Best of all, there’s a lot more driving fun than you’d expect in an entry-level scooter,

Does mean it drives better or sportier than a 330i, but to each their own

ab348

andres3 said:

They count, but you've only had the 2nd one for how long? @qbrozen had a good experience with one too, but he owned it for about as long as a Neon is reliable too.

"Show us where the bad Neon touched you, Andres. That's the only way we can help you get past this incident that still affects you so deeply even though it happened 20 years ago."

Still, batting .666 or so with cars isn't good. Anyone else around here own a good Caddy recently?

Hard to see the point given that you seem prone to simply dismiss any such reports that do not fit your narrative.

graphicguy

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

Acura is probably entirely related to the 9 speed AT

dino....seems that way, doesn't it.

Stick....I think that ZF transmission was an issue for Acura. While I never owned the '15 TLX, from what I understand the trans was tuned ALL WRONG in that drivetrain.

The one in my '19 behaves quite well and reminds me a whole lot of the ZF trans I had in my 335i several years ago.

So, perhaps Honda/Acura got all of that sorted out with ZF.

You didn't own the Infiniti long enough, but it seems the Asian brands are your anti/counter-magnet to getting bad cars as @dino001 put it.

Good point!

Nothing really wrong with the Infiniti. I think they softened it too much. The twin turbo 6 was good. Transmission was a bit lazy, but nothing really wrong with it.

I think I was hoping for more of what the previous generation offered with the 3.7, which was much sportier. Infiniti went in the opposite direction.

flightnurse

andres3 said:

So his experience with Audi didn't count?

Oh it counted, and is the reason Audi didn't ever surpass Lexus.

However, I will say the problems he experienced with one Audi pale in comparison to 3 Cadillac's in a row he had.


But you never mentioned him I'm sure it was an oversight. My issues with Audi is they are FWD cars. If they moved to an FWD platform an S5 Sportback would be in my driveway.

thebean

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

They count, but you've only had the 2nd one for how long? @qbrozen had a good experience with one too, but he owned it for about as long as a Neon is reliable too.

"Show us where the bad Neon touched you, Andres. That's the only way we can help you get past this incident that still affects you so deeply even though it happened 20 years ago."

Still, batting .666 or so with cars isn't good. Anyone else around here own a good Caddy recently?

Hard to see the point given that you seem prone to simply dismiss any such reports that do not fit your narrative.



Meee-ow!!

roadburner

I picked up the latest issue of EVO tonight; it contains a comparison test of the RS4, M4 Competition Package, and C63 S. The M4 won; it was they said, "Way out in front..."
It makes me wish even harder that my center would sell the M3 manual with the Comp Package; it's getting way too tempting having to walk past it every day...

qbrozen

I have seen that comparison a number of times now and the verdict is almost never the same. Although I do believe the RS5 always finishes last. 

stickguy

depends a lot on priorities, as with every comparison test.

flightnurse

roadburner said:

I picked up the latest issue of EVO tonight; it contains a comparison test of the RS4, M4 Competition Package, and C63 S. The M4 won; it was they said, "Way out in front..."
It makes me wish even harder that my center would sell the M3 manual with the Comp Package; it's getting way too tempting having to walk past it every day...

When was younger I would live, breath and sleep these comparison test, I could quote stats all day long. But as I got older and owned some of these cars I realized that numbers really don't mean much, since testing is never done at the same time of year, or track or weather condition. So for the average Joe any one of these cars would be OK with and no see any of the "issues" the writers saw. I wouldn't mind having any of those cars and I know I would happy owning it. Now, I wish BMW would build a M4 GC...

roadburner

flightnurse said:

roadburner said:

I picked up the latest issue of EVO tonight; it contains a comparison test of the RS4, M4 Competition Package, and C63 S. The M4 won; it was they said, "Way out in front..."
It makes me wish even harder that my center would sell the M3 manual with the Comp Package; it's getting way too tempting having to walk past it every day...

When was younger I would live, breath and sleep these comparison test, I could quote stats all day long. But as I got older and owned some of these cars I realized that numbers really don't mean much, since testing is never done at the same time of year, or track or weather condition. So for the average Joe any one of these cars would be OK with and no see any of the "issues" the writers saw. I wouldn't mind having any of those cars and I know I would happy owning it. Now, I wish BMW would build a M4 GC...

I've been reading comparison tests since 1967; I find the magazines that most closely mirror my preferences are Automobile, CAR, Car and Driver, EVO, and Top Gear. Road & Track has an extremely deserve staff , and I usually find myself agreeing with Peter Egan, Jack Baruth, and my friend Sam Smith.

flightnurse

roadburner said:

I've been reading comparison tests since 1967; I find the magazines that most closely mirror my preferences are Automobile, CAR, Car and Driver, EVO, and Top Gear. Road & Track has an extremely deserve staff , and I usually find myself agreeing with Peter Egan, Jack Baruth, and my friend Sam Smith.

I've been a fan of Peter Egan for years, because of writing also motor Motorcyclist. I was very lucky to spend 5 days with him back in the early 90's on a motorcycle "festival" called The Three Flags, very fascinating person. All of those cars you posted will exceed the posted speed limit many times over, handles MUCH better then most people will push and for those reasons doesn't matter what car people will buy, Most if not all will never push those cars to their respected limits. That is why I think those articles are boring, What I think would be interesting is these magazines would take a BMW 320 and put against say a Kia Optima and see if the added cost for the BMW is worth it. Or take a 330i v Altima, Accord, Camry, Sonata, Optima and see if the additional cost of the BMW is worth the price. Since it seems that many people troll this board for that topic.

andres3

I'd find badge engineering comparos interesting. Pit an X1 against the Mini equivalent, a GTI against the A3, the Smart Car against the...... well, never mind.

A V6 Accord vs. a TLX. Or soon to be 2.0T Accord vs. V6 TLX.

tlong

How is it that my 12 yo Acura TL looked good and was highly reliable. And yet the new TLX IMHO doesn't look as good and Acura's reliablity is in the dumper according to CR. Not a lot of progress in 12 years.

sweendogy

"Guess who's back, back again, shadys back, tell a friend"
2013 s4 now has 40k miles - which I bot used in February 14 with 14k miles so for 26k miles thru New England weather and potholes I have yet to have any issues. Tire swaps for the seasons and regular recommended service. My guess at 45k would prob need to do brakes- which will be expensive. Of current Ellps I don't really see any thing that screams by me for the cash - Audi s5 fastback very cool looking BUT 60k is tough. Kia stinger another that's very interesting - BMW for anything with a 6 is way to expensive for that interior.
Many have commented about getting more in average brand cars and I totally agree- badge envy for me is gone- look at the technology and standard safety features you get with a 18 accord. Speaking of accord - sharp looking in sport form and you can still get a Manual (talking to you Audi)

flightnurse

roadburner said:

I've been reading comparison tests since 1967; I find the magazines that most closely mirror my preferences are Automobile, CAR, Car and Driver, EVO, and Top Gear. Road & Track has an extremely deserve staff , and I usually find myself agreeing with Peter Egan, Jack Baruth, and my friend Sam Smith.

I've been a fan of Peter Egan for years, because of writing also motor Motorcyclist. I was very lucky to spend 5 days with him back in the early 90's on a motorcycle "festival" called The Three Flags, very fascinating person. All of those cars you posted will exceed the posted speed limit many times over, handles MUCH better then most people will push and for those reasons doesn't matter what car people will buy, Most if not all will never push those cars to their respected limits. That is why I think those articles are boring, What I think would be interesting is these magazines would take a BMW 320 and put against say a Kia Optima and see if the added cost for the BMW is worth it. Or take a 330i v Altima, Accord, Camry, Sonata, Optima and see if the additional cost of the BMW is worth the price. Since it seems that many people troll this board for that topic.

sweendogy

The the comment above - I hope the BMW wins. BMW has been leasing "el cheapo" cars for years and calling them the ultimate driving machines. (Talking 320 for those new here) Would be great to see if they can beat a Ultima (Nissan). For 299 a month I think the BMW should win - at msrp I would think it could be tougher-

circlew

Anyone get the recall regarding parts implicated in BMW fires?

flightnurse

circlew said:

Anyone get the recall regarding parts implicated in BMW fires?

What fires?

roadburner

My son received his for his E90 328i.

circlew

BMW is recalling 1.4 million cars and SUVs in North America due to the risk they could catch fire.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/03/news/companies/bmw-recall/index.html

flightnurse

circlew said:

BMW is recalling 1.4 million cars and SUVs in North America due to the risk they could catch fire.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/03/news/companies/bmw-recall/index.html

Interesting the article doesn't say much about what years are affected.

Mr_Shiftright

"The first recall covers more than 672,000 cars. It includes several BMW 3 Series models from 2006-11 with wiring and electrical conductors in the climate control system that are vulnerable to overheating, BMW told the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration on Thursday.

The second, larger recall involves the 2008-11 128i and various other 2007-11 models with six-cylinder engines, such as the 328i and the 525i."

source: NY Times

roadburner

The second recall involves the heated PCV valve. I talked with several techs at work and a couple of them said that they had seen blower motors with connectors that had gotten hot, but none of them looked like they were anywhere close to catching fire. No one had seen the PCV issue.

Mr_Shiftright

If you are the one affected, then the casualty rate is 100%

sweendogy

I've looked at a few different chats(blogs) here at edmunds and have been very impressed by the responses (certainly in the lease/deal sections) from the moderators. Nice work.

Michaell

sweendogy said:

I've looked at a few different chats(blogs) here at edmunds and have been very impressed by the responses (certainly in the lease/deal sections) from the moderators. Nice work.

Thanks! Appreciate the shout out.

flightnurse

Boy, this forum has died.

So I've had my 330i now for 8 months, and I like it. Just had the car coded and applied the Dinan Sport tune. It gives a modest HP gain (25hp) but a healthy torque (50lbs) increase. It took 2 complete sleep cycles to feel the additional 50 lbs of torque. Not bad for $200 tune. This car just amazes on how the milesage I am getting with it, combined I'm getting a very solid 28.5, took a trip to Santa Fe, averages 34 on that trip, Ricks GT averaged 34 a few weeks later.

Hope all is doing well.