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Comments
Still, it was interesting that I knew more about their product then they did, or then they pretended to know. My real issue is that rather than handle it like a "human" error, the sales manager went out of his way to insult me and tell them that I was being inflexible and should accept something that was not %100 to my liking because they were being "nice guys."
I would respectfully disagree. This is a way for them to get you to help pay for their advertising! I certainly don't add a charge on top of my fees when I put together client proposals for my business -- my costs for marketing are already built into my pricing.
Consumer Reports suggests trying not to pay this fee -- if it's on the invoice, cross it out and explain politely but firmly you are not interested in paying for the advertising.
If they are still insistent, CR suggests at least negotiating how much of it you will pay.
My understanding is the marketing assessment is over and above the invoice sent to Infiniti dealers from the manufacturer. Therefore, it's negotiable.
Many vehicle invoices include a legitimate advertising fee levied by either the manufacturer or regional dealer groups. Ad fees can range from less than 1% of the vehicle's MSRP to more than 3%, depending on region. Metropolitan-area dealers are more likely to charge higher advertising fees than rural dealers. Whenever there is an advertising fee, we take it into account when calculating TMV.
Also, I believe Infiniti are going to do what Nissan Did i.e. do away with the MA and raise all the prices by 1.5%.
In any case, the dealer told me that he would pay to cost of the wood package. He thought it would make me happy. The problem was that I would have to pay to have the wood replaced, shift nob and the 4 side rails which came out to ~$260.
I did not want to pay this extra cost and they did not want to budge on the price. They tried to convince me that $260 was not so much when you are spending $34,000 for a car. That may be a good sales pitch, but it did not work on me.
To make a long story short, I ended up getting the same car (without the wood package) from another local dealer for the same price.
I did not include in the post the fact that this dealer attempted to deceive me with the price of the car as well. I am eligible for VPP pricing, which is why the price was pre-negotiated. However, when I came to make a deposit, they gave me a price $1,200 above the VPP price. I know this because I spoke to Infinit's VPP headquarters and they told me the true VPP cost. When I called the dealer back, they claimed that they were giving me the VPP price and to either take it or leave it. After an argument with the Sales Manager and the General Manager, all I wanted from them was an admission whether they were giving me the VPP or not, and they kept saying yes (I wish I could have taped the discussion as evidence). I filed a complaint with Infiniti regarding this deception. Infiniti consumer affairs called this dealer and the dealer said they did not want to give me the VPP price and were simply giving me a discount on the car. They said since the car was in such demand, they could not sell it at VPP. Basically, they lied to consumer affairs.
Another local dealer gave me the correct VPP price and I didn't need to worry about replacing the wood package since the specs were exactly as I wanted.
BTW, it is not easy to replace the center console with titanium due to the snow mode button near the shifter. I will need to have someplace carve out the whole for it when I buy the titanium parts.
The deceptive dealer was Quirk Infiniti in Massachussetts. They opened several weeks ago.
I did most of my communication via email with their Internet Sales Rep. It was very convenient and stress free. I also found Kelly to be the most flexible when it comes to price.
As far as the VPP for, the story gets interesting. When the Manager went to the computer to enter my VPP claim number, it took an unusually long amount of time for him to give me the price. When he gave me the price, I suspected it was too high but didn't say anything until I did my own research. After leaving, I called the VPP headquarters to confirm the price. When I gave the VPP rep the VIN#, she said it could not be found in the database, probably because it wasn't assigned to that dealer yet. So what does this mean? It means if the VPP headquarters was unable to calculate a price, how could the local dealer calculate the price using Infiniti's website VPP calculator? The answer is they couldn't unless they knew the VPP formula (which they don't because it's relatively complicated).
At one point, the the managers at Quirk started trying to convince me that the G35X was not eligible for the VPP. I told them about 10 times that it was and I had confirmed this with VPP Headquarters. In fact, I learned that the G35 Coupe is now eligible for VPP for the first time.
Sorry for the long reponse.
Norwood was the closest dealer for me as well. However, I did not get a good vibe from them. Their sales reps were not as knowledgeable and I didn't feel like they were as flexible in pricing. Also, I found Kelly to have the largest inventory. Kelly was the only dealer that didn't try to pressure me (especially when dealing via email).
If you want more info, you can email me directly at frayberg@hotmail.com. I have been doing research on the G35 Sedan for 4 months and can help you save lots of time.
The only way that I found out that I was eligible was by calling Infiniti directly.
The dealership gave me "true" invoice pricing; i.e., they charged the invoice price for the options package I wanted (P01), not MSRP as another dealership wanted.
And, they threw in the trunk mat, which is a $60 (MSRP) item.
All in all, I paid $162 over my ideal price, so I am happy. Could not make the advertising fee ($395) go away, though.
So, I got the car for $500 over invoice, and $2338 under MSRP.
And, I didn't have to deal with the f&i folks at all! That meant no pressure for rustproofing, extended warranties, etc.! We were done with our dealing in an hour!
Hooray for the Internet!
I've been a pretty silent follower of
all the discussions here over the past 2 months.
it sure served me well during my purchase.
I bought the 2004 G35 Leather sedan with sun-roof and wheel locks (just these 2 options, nothing else) last saturday.
The price I paid for the car: $29211
and on the road: $31764
Invoice price (for my options) is $29111.
here's the break-up...
base price: $27663 (the $400 Marketing Assesment
fee is paid by the dealer and so it shows up
on the invoice - i've seen the invoice).
sunroof invoice price: $862
Destination fee: $545
wheel locks: $41
I was very specific abt the color and these options and i just had one dealer having the
car in stock. so i had to be a little conservative during negotiations and was personally not inclined to "get the hell outa
there" if i did'nt get the greatest price. Those
who buy with the premium package must definitely be able to buy it less than invoice as those kinda cars are all over the place.
My car had been delivered to the dealership just 2 days before i bought it. So i know that, since the car has'nt stayed in the dealer's lot for long, the dealer would've hardly paid any interest on it. which means the 2-3% holdback (that Infiniti reimburses to the dealership) is a big chuck of profit. 2-3% of the selling price is a whopping 500-900 bucks. I leveraged this knowledge and negotiated the price from $29639 to
my final price of $29211.
The people at the dealership are very nice. I got
it from Infiniti TUSTIN for those interested in southern california.
Other quotes I had for the car with my options from area dealerships were: $29970, $29768, $29588 and so on.
so thanks again folks for all the knowledge and happy driving.
Notice the recent Infiniti television advertisements...most of the vehicles are shown in silver for some reason.
The "darker silver" on the coupe is actually Diamond Graphite - not available on the sedan for 2003.
am considering purchasing g35 6 spd 4 door in the louisville area. would like opinions on what is a good price to shoot for? is this car in high demand? they have about 6 of them in stock at local dealer. was thinking of 500 to 1000 over invoice. the local dealer also installs a "protection" package for close to 1000, which i hope is negotiable.
Lojack
Simonize (paint protector)
AutoBond (clear bra)
Extended Service Contract (7yr)
I walked into the second dealer and said "I'm here to buy". I quoted them my price, and they worked on me for awhile, got me up to $34,500, and I got the car. I think it helped that it was the end of the month. This was late September.
I was happy with my interactions with JBA Infinity in Ellocott City.
If you can wait until Spring or so, you'll probably get a more reasonable discount along the lines of what other posters have recently reported for the G35 w/out AWD. Besides, I have a moral objection to paying at or near MSRP. Then again, do as you want, not as you read :-)
Good luck!
Here is the spec.
G35 Sedan Desert platinum/willow lether
Premium package w/o full size tire
Sports package
trunk mat
splash guard
The MSRP was 34300 and I got it $2500 under MSRP.
Here I have a question.
Are there default removable floor mats? I thick they are missing and I will demand those tomorrow. If you have those, please let me know. I am not talking about the optional rubber floor mats.
Thanks
My story begins about 9 months ago when my wife decided I needed to drive a safer car (something with air bags...). While my 93 Nissan Pathfinder is in excellent condition with just 68,000 original miles, it's a bit outdated with respect to safety features.
My search began.
I lusted after the newly released 350z - I have a 6 year old, need a back seat.
The G35 Coupe! That could be the ticket! - Not sure it would agree with NE U.S. winters.
The G35 sedan and the rumors last summer about AWD. That could work!
Rumors confirmed, I patiently wait until December.
Since I only drive about 15 miles each way for my work commute, any kind of new car was a bit hard to justify. I started thinking about cheaper alternatives that would satisfy my wife's safety requirement, such as the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, you know, the old standbys.
My wife and I then start talking about that she drives more miles just doing the kid-to-school thing, after school activities, church stuff, etc., etc., etc. The car she's driving now (a GMC Yukon XL) isn't the most fuel thrifty so we decide I should drive the Yukon and she should get the smaller, more fuel efficient car.
Last weekend the test drives happen.
1st - the new Acura TL - very nice.
2nd - the Infiniti G35x - very nice, very fun to drive.
3rd - Honda Accord - nice - we both decide the Acura might not be worth the additional $7k.
4th - Toyota Camry - actually liked this better than the Acord.
I try to be the prudent one and argue that the Accord or Camry would be fine for her needs and both offer a good, solid bang-for-the-buck car. Who could argue with that???
She says - "I want the G35x"
I say - "The Accord and Camry were really nice!"
She says - "I WANT THE G35x. You'll get to drive it on the weekends."
How did this happen? For 9 months, my research lead me to the G35x. Then in some sort of shell game like fasion, it was dangled and yanked from my grip!!
Anyway, I spent last week getting quotes from several dealers, visted another dealer today and got about $2000 off MSRP and 3.95% financing. The deal is done.
My wife's Twilight Blue on Willow leather should be here in a week or so.
I'll get to drive it on weekends... Is there a support group for this type of thing?
This was the best car buying experience of my life because I pretty much reduced the number of moving parts to one - PRICE. The recipe proved to be pretty simple.
1. Get pre-approved financing. Through Costco (and then Captial One) I secured 60 month financing at 4.23%.
2. Don't trade-in the old car. I do have a car I now have to sell but I don't *need* to get rid of it and I don't *need* to sell it.
3. Walk in with competitive bids from other dealers.
Last Saturday (12/27/03) my wife and I went out test driving a number of cars. We drove the Acura TL, G35x, Accord, and Camry. We didn't talk money at all. She went back to the Infiniti dealer on Monday and re-drove the G35x and talked to the dealer a little about price. Due to the "relationship" we had established, he'd knock a couple hundred off MSRP but because the car was in such high demand he couldn't do any better than that.
We decide Monday night that the G35x is the car we want so I follow the cookbook over at "The Motley Fool" (http://www.fool.com/car/car.htm) and draft a FAX that I'll send to every dealer within a 100 mile radius. This FAX includes the specific configuration I'm looking for and gives the dealers a week to respond if they're interested in bidding on my business.
MSRP on the configuration I'm looking for is $35,825 broken out as follows:
Base price: $31,900
Premium package: $3,200
Trunk mat: $60
Splash guards: $120
Destination: $545
I sent out 11 FAXes the morning of 12/30 and recieved 3 responses within a couple of hours. Turns out those were the only responses I'd get. One said "No Thanks", one quoted me about $1000 off MSRP ($34,840), and the third said "Call me, we'll be very aggressive on price."
I wait until this morning (1/3/04) to call the aggressive guy.
He says: "What kind of price are you looking for?"
I say: "I'd prefer if you could just quote me your best price"
He says: "MSRP is $35,825, invoice is $33,255. Tell me what you think a fair profit is for me to make."
I say: "I'd prefer if you could just quote me your best price"
He says: "OK, $34,000"
I say: "This is a very good offer, I'll have to talk it over with my wife, I may call you later"
We then travel about 25 miles to the second closest dealer to our home. This is one of the dealers that didn't respond to my FAX. As we walk in the sale guy looks at my folder...
He says: "Whatcha got there, your research? We love people who've done their research."
I say: "Yeah, I pretty much know what I want and we've already test driven at another dealership"
He says: "Well that will make my job easy then..."
After another long test drive, we sit down to talk numbers. I make it very clear I already have financing and I don't have a trade in. The only thing negotiable is price.
He says: "This is a hot car in short supply and we're pretty much selling them at MSRP"
I say: "I've got two quotes in hand that are significantly less than MSRP"
He says: "So you're looking for something less than MSRP?"
I say: "Yes"
He says: "Let me go talk to my manager"
He comes back.
He says: "$35,325 - that's $500 off MSRP, that's better than any deal we've ever done on this car"
I say: "That's not even close to the other two offers I have, you're going to have to do much better than that"
He says: "Let me go talk to my manager"
He comes back and lays down a piece of paper. On it is written "$34,325 and 3.95% financing"
He says: "You're killing me - here's another offer - $1000 off of MSRP"
He looks again at the paper (and this part I REALLY LOVED!!!)
He says: "Oh wait, that's not $1000, that's $1500 - just a second"
He calls his manager on the phone in front of us.
He says to his manager: "This number is $1500, not $1000 - what do you want me to do?"
After a few "uh huh's and OK's" he hangs up the phone. This was so far away from Oscar performance material it was ridiculous. They knew it was $1500 off MSRP and wanted to make it seem like I was benefiting from a $500 mistake they made!
He says: "Guess we'll have to give you the $1500 off MSRP"
Wife says: "Our other offer is $34,000"
I say: "Well the 3.95% is better than my 4.23% and will probably make up the $325 difference, I may have to go home and run the numbers"
He says: "Sure it will, we'll run the numbers for you here. I don't want you leaving so you can call another dealership"
I say: "Match my other offer of $34,000 and throw in the 3.95% and I'll write you a deposit check today"
He goes away and comes back with the manager
Manager says: "If we go to $34,000 and 3.95% you'll buy today?"
I say: "Yes"
Manager says: "We can do that"
I say: "Sold. Very nice"
I put my deposit down on a Twilight Blue on Willow Leather G35x due to arrive in a week or so. I had fully planned on going back to the first dealer to give him a first shot at my business but these new guys were definitely hungrier and the first dealer really had an attitude about having a high demand car.
I'm in the NE U.S. and it's in the middle of winter and this is a new model for them. I was actually surprised how much they came down given some of the stories I've read.
The Motley Fool car buying advice worked for me. I'm a software guy, not a professional negotiator and it was far easier than I imagined.
Give it a try.
--
Tom L.
I just finished buying one (I'm in the Houston area) and I checked out all the dealerships in the area (including S.A. and Dallas). If you don't mind, give me your email address and I'll tell you all about it (I don't think we're supposed to discuss all of that on teh board). I doubt you'll be able to get $500 over invoice in Texas but I think you can probably get $1500 over invoice.
By far the best offer was made by Pleasanton Infiniti via email. They sent me an email flyer advertising an special price of $3,200 off MSRP for "internet" sales by December 31st only. I called the people in internet sales and test drove the only car they had with my options--but it was white. I didn't happen to care too much for the car in white, so I didn't buy it. So, I set about trying to get other dealerships to match the offer. Most didn't get back to me. One even told me that the offer made by Pleasanton Infiniti was "just noise", i.e. not real, and that they'd be losing money on any sale more than $2,400 off MSRP. However, Redwood City Infiniti agreed to match the price provided I show them a copy of the email ad (although they never quoted me anything near so low when I had inquired about a price before). A day later I bought my 2004 G35 in brilliant silver from them. I should also like to say that they were very easy to deal with and met the price with no hassle whatsoever.
Here are the important details:
MSRP with leather and sunroof only (including destination): $31,645
Invoice with leather and sunroof only (including destination): $28,670
Approximate Holdback: $900
My final sale price after $3,200 off: $28,445
My final "out the door" cost including tax, title, and license: $31,115
So, my final price was under invoice but well within the holdback. From what I've seen in this forum, that's the best price off MSRP around. I must concede that it was hard to find this offer and that it may be due in part to buying at the end of the month and the end of the year. However, I assume that it is profitable for the dealer because of the holdback (and other unknown incentives). Also, Redwood City Infiniti's readiness to match that offer makes me think it worked out well for them in one way or another.
I hope this helps potential buyers out there.
P.S. The MSRP of the 2004 Acura TL (including destination) is $33,195; and the absolute best deal I could get (using the same method as I did on the G35) was $1,500 off MSRP. So, the TL would have cost $31,695--that's $3,250 more than my G35.
your deal is very impressive
makes me want to go out and get one at the end of this month.
thanks for the details
I have a dealer 5 minutes from my house that would be convenient. What if the quote comes back from that dealer? Can I go and talk to a salesman there and say beat your own price? Am I better off dealing with the internet department of that dealer directly? Thanks
BTW, I'm in the San Fernando Valley area, has anyone had a particularly good experience with a dealer in the area? Also, are any of the online dealers better than the other?