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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    On the other hand, as oil prices are being “manipulated” (aka. output curbs @ $52.87)...https://www.marketwatch.com/story/crude-prices-rally-4-as-russia-saudis-signal-output-curbs-2018-12-03
    Gasoline $1.40 heating oil $1.85
    http://www.oil-price.net/

    Socialist fuel taxes rising https://finance.yahoo.com/news/french-police-deployed-amid-round-090953539.html
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Well, it's not as bad as when my agent starts to speak in "insurance" :)
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Well a bit off topic, I have always considered one vehicle to be part of household (5,000 miles) /work (15,000 miles) expenses. One current CUV does commute for 500 gal ULSD, 18,000 miles.

    It was unheard of for much of the houses life, markets doing door delivery. So was working from home. Still, a car is needed. Mileage is generally @ need/want.

    Pre grade K, (63 years ago), I do remember the donut truck coming to the block. I used to run to the donut truck just for the smell. Milk delivery, etc. was also done.

    But, time for that new “car” https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/5-reasons-december-best-month-170300978.html
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 241,395
    ruking1 said:

    Well a bit off topic, I have always considered one vehicle to be part of household/work expenses. It was unheard of for much of the houses life, markets doing door delivery. So was working from home.

    Pre K, (63 years ago) I do remember the donut truck coming to the block. Milk delivery, etc. was also done.

    Potato chips and cookies, too!

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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Slip down to $2.69
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    RUG $3.55, PUG $ 3.87 ULSD $ 3.95
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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,766
    RUG $1.94, ULSD $2.79!!.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/exclusive-exxon-seeks-sell-stake-105529394.html

    Gettin out of : Exclusive: Exxon, Chevron seek to exit Azerbaijan's oil after 25 years

    Reuters

    Imagine that, the socialist French don’t want to pay socialist imposed fuel taxes? https://www.yahoo.com/news/
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    France has occasional riots and burning cars all the time, has for eons. This is just an excuse. Probably safer there than here in the land of bootstrappers, "capitalists", etc.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    I’m not sure what being safer/more dangerous has to do with not wanting to pay for higher fuel taxes?

    Wife just did a multiple day business trip to Chicago. (alleged murder capital) She had a great time! She especially enjoyed the nightlife !
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    It has nothing less to do with it than the (erroneous) "socialist" blather. Oh yeah, the link doesn't go there either.

    The French have loved to protest for decades, they don't have the temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome that people suffer from here, although their riots produce about as much change as local inaction. Fuel prices are just an excuse to stoke up a new round.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    On that point we differ.

    Sure, the French have loved to protest for decades, if not generations. Of course, they don’t have the (your words) “temporarily embarrassed millionaires syndrome”. They don’t have very many, let alone posers. But the people paying the taxes, think the politicians are padding their belts. I’m sure you are totally fine with them paying app $6.00 gal USD per gal.of fuel.

    I’m with you on stoking up another round. Burn baby burn! It’s fun to watch the fireworks? And it is?...?!https://www.yahoo.com/news/

    More oil discoveries! https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/04/exxonmobils-massive-oil-discovery-keeps-getting-bi.aspx
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    If it wasn't the fuel tax excuse, it would be something else. For a long time, 100+ cars a night would burn in France. It's almost a part of culture. And they still have many superior socio-economic/human development indices compared to the land of whiny luckiest generation members and crony capitalism.

    Local Chevron - RUG: 3.46, Mid 3.59, PUG 3.69, Diesel 3.37.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    RUG $3.35, PUG $3.65, ULSD $3.95 local

    It will be interesting to see if the “Paris Accord” (so-called climate change)will be scraped! None of those alleged “superior socio-economic human development indicies” are jumping out @ me to make me move to France.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I hope WA keeps up the weird delta between RUG and diesel. Gives me some solace against the poor mpg earned in gridlock.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    fintail said:

    I hope WA keeps up the weird delta between RUG and diesel. Gives me some solace against the poor mpg earned in gridlock.

    I scratch my head on the definitions of gridlock. This area has either the #1/#2 spots in the nation for the crappiest roads & GRIDLOCK. If it’s any solace to you, the difference between GLK 350/250 BT is 20/22 mpg PUG vs 36/38 mpg ULSD.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I don't know what we are, but it is probably in the top 10. You know it's bad when driving in Chicago doesn't seem any worse than most conditions at home (at least in terms of congestion, road conditions here are far better).

    In stop and go crawls, which defines my evening commute, I think I get in the mid 20s, where low-mid 40s are a piece of cake at 65-70 mph. I think a gasoline variant would easily be 25% thirstier, but taking PUG which costs about 10% more than diesel here.
    ruking1 said:



    I scratch my head on the definitions of gridlock. This area has either the #1/#2 spots in the nation for the crappiest roads & GRIDLOCK. If it’s any solace to you, the difference between GLK 350/250 BT is 20/22 mpg PUG vs 36/38 mpg ULSD.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    20/25 mpg are truly the #’s to beat, when it comes to RUG/PUG & hybrid.

    Indeed the PUG versions (gasoline & gasoline versions) would probably be thirstier than the diesel.

    The Wall Street Journal did an article on the $B’s wasted idling in US traffic (by policies & designs) each year. (folks can google, my WSJ links prevent access)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Indeed, the amount of fuel wasted via poor traffic controls must be immense. Non-optimized lights really bug me, and my city tries harder than some around here, who appear to use a random sequence.

    I suppose the dream of a diesel hybrid MB in this market won't come true, but it's an easy option in high quality of life social democracies ;)
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    #2 para response. One look @ Toyota Highlander Hybrid “cost effectiveness” is one true indicator why (not), (aka, cost/BE) Edmunds.com has even weighed in on this issue. Both diesel, hybrid separately are boutique markets. Together that would make an even rarified pool ever smaller. The environics have declared the EV the savior of the environment. Documentation has indicated that environmental impacts are @ least equal to or even greater than diesel/gasoline precursors.

    But the true idiocy is the rabid belief there is ONE single solution, i.e., 100% EV. RUG/PUG NO ULSD, etc. Belief’s such as these are what got us into the pickle in the first place.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Yep, if MB brought over the Bluetec Hybrid, I'd be one of the 7 people who buy one.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    fintail said:

    Yep, if MB brought over the Bluetec Hybrid, I'd be one of the 7 people who buy one.

    In my estimation, hybrid configurations have proven themselves over at least a decade & ++. I don’t know this for sure, but I believe that the CUV diesel hybrid would be much better than a gasoline hybrid, which Toyota Highlander gasoline/Hybrid has proven works well.

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I think it is a good combination. Hybrid efficiency in town, diesel driveability on the highway. One side makes up for where the other falls short. The E Bluetec Hybrid is a thing in Europe, and I've read reports of it averaging 60 mpg.
    ruking1 said:


    In my estimation, hybrid configurations have proven themselves over at least a decade & ++. I don’t know this for sure, but I believe that the CUV diesel hybrid would be much better than a gasoline hybrid, which Toyota Highlander gasoline/Hybrid has proven works well.

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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    One place just dropped to $2.64 here. Can pay $2.48 cash in a couple of places, and I filled up at Sam's for $2.48 yesterday
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Would the gearing (ratios) for a diesel work well with a hybrid?
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Seems to work for the models MB sells in Europe.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    fintail said:

    I think it is a good combination. Hybrid efficiency in town, diesel driveability on the highway. One side makes up for where the other falls short. The E Bluetec Hybrid is a thing in Europe, and I've read reports of it averaging 60 mpg.


    ruking1 said:


    In my estimation, hybrid configurations have proven themselves over at least a decade & ++. I don’t know this for sure, but I believe that the CUV diesel hybrid would be much better than a gasoline hybrid, which Toyota Highlander gasoline/Hybrid has proven works well.

    The diesel/hybrid fuel savings & costs while ENORMOUSLY practica (for consumers) are not practical, seen as not sustainable in this country.(USA 11,000-14,000 miles per yr) With Europe’s average of 6,000 to 9,000 miles per driver/year, it’s even less so.

    Having said that, I’d love to get 60 mpg on the (any 2014-2015/2016- 2019) MB GLK 250 BT./GLC. I’m convinced after 60,000 + miles, it (it, any, mine) will easily hit 120,000 miles (first major tune up) +. on the way to 360,000 miles.(3rd major tune) 20 years of commuting)

    The % & #’s are not practical on many levels. So one example, 60 mpg would dropped my 500 gallons per year ULSD consumption (18,000 miles) to 300 gallons per year (minus- 40%). The systems wants me to use MORE not less & more frequently. (Recent CA fuel taxes raised) In fact, they are PO’d that I am using less, all the while costing less per mile driven. It would also put my range up to approximately 1,044 miles.

    It is absolutely disingenuous. Not only is this technology on the market today, it has been very available (off the shelf, etc.) for at least 2 decades.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I think the European driving environment is as much or more important than just mileage. Europeans drive more in crowded areas, which helps hybrids. At the same time, the US is becoming more urbanized, and traffic gets worse every year, so it could work here, too. Unfortunately, I think the stigma attached to diesel is just too much for a diesel hybrid to overcome - it would be niche to begin with, add in a heavy dose of negative PR, and only traditionalists and those into odd tech would buy one. For now and likely forever, it is something only for more interesting markets.

    With the huge and sometimes ridiculous and hard to defend tax incentives attached to EVs, I think there's some cognitive dissonance among the oh so accountable and responsible powers that be regarding how we should be using fuel. I think we'll eventually devolve to more tolls to make up for it.

    I think your GLK will hit 300K easy, with how you drive and maintain it. Any of the 4cyl Bluetec cars should be easy 250K cars with little to no drama getting there - they are all proven platforms with few known issues. I've been told the V6 diesels have a few issues, but the 4 cyl models are real gems, and my E250 experience follows that.
    ruking1 said:


    The diesel/hybrid fuel savings & costs while ENORMOUSLY practica (for consumers) are not practical, seen as not sustainable in this country.(USA 11,000-14,000 miles per yr) With Europe’s average of 6,000 to 9,000 miles per driver/year, it’s even less so.

    Having said that, I’d love to get 60 mpg on the (any 2014-2015/2016- 2019) MB GLK 250 BT./GLC. I’m convinced after 60,000 + miles, it (it, any, mine) will easily hit 120,000 miles (first major tune up) +. on the way to 360,000 miles.(3rd major tune) 20 years of commuting)

    The % & #’s are not practical on many levels. So one example, 60 mpg would dropped my 500 gallons per year ULSD consumption (18,000 miles) to 300 gallons per year (minus- 40%). The systems wants me to use MORE not less & more frequently. (Recent CA fuel taxes raised) In fact, they are PO’d that I am using less, all the while costing less per mile driven. It would also put my range up to approximately 1,044 miles.

    It is absolutely disingenuous. Not only is this technology on the market today, it has been very available (off the shelf, etc.) for at least 2 decades.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Yes, for a whole bunch of reasons, MB really got the GLK 250 BT right (2014-2015) . Indeed if another one comes along, I will most likely buy another, even if it’s a compact.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I think the 4 cyl Bluetec cars will have some kind of special interest/curiosity recognition among MB people in the future. Likely the end of the MB diesel era in the US, and really an optimal powertrain for their applications.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,497
    Paid $2.599 fro RUG today, cheapest since March of this year.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Now’s the time to buy lower priced gasoline and take those seasonal trips! https://www.yahoo.com/news/gas-plummets-2018-low-oil-203627912.html
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Might be a good time to lock in spring and summer airfares as well before our "allies" the Saudi's spearhead a big oil price hike.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Even if/when one knows the fuel cost/hedging/pricing formulas for that (jet fuel 10.3 gal per bbl) math, PRICING can be difficult to impossible to discern. One basic factor of the formula is how many butts/how many chairs, etc. So for example, one can pay $39 to get to a destination or $999., to the same.

    So for our EV brethren, they should try running the math on electrical! Costs kWh are approximately $.025 cents to .$035 cents kWh. In CA , pricing is currently @$.29 peak (aka, penalty) kWh, or app 11.6 (X) times. If one is not shocked by the % differences, I really don’t know what to say. So IF it is really all the same to most folks, keep those dividends/cap gains coming !

    Recent CA FIRE disasters in Ca have have demonstrated time & time & time again (the REAL proverbial smoking guns ) that electrical has far, far, far greater consequences than the envirocons will ever admit to.

    If oil barrel fuels were priced at the same multiples, fuels would be approximately $19-$20 a gallon.
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Still $2.69, but Sam's has dropped a dime to $2.38

    Hopefully a leading indicator!
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Too funny & true! When the price goes up for a barrel, the price @ the pumps per gal goes up almost instantaneously. When the price goes minutely to catastrophically down, they mumble in inexplicable concepts in anything but English. (smoke screens) It also takes several weeks for cheaper $$’s per gal pricing to “reflect”.

    In CA, almost not at all. ($51.64 WTI) So locally:

    RUG $ 3.35, PUG $ 3.65 , ULSD $3.93.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    $3.79 ULSD, PUG. $3.57, RUG $3.27. 37 mpg (530 miles/14.266 gal ULSD, @ app 75,000 miles, 14 MB GLK 250 BT)
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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,766
    $1.90 RUG at QT
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    sdasda Member Posts: 7,032
    1.88 about 10 miles south

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Oil @ $46.27 WTI. !

    Yippee yahoo!
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    MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 244,145
    Was in Houston last couple of days - routinely saw gas under $2/gal.

    Returned to Denver tonight, at RUG was $2.42/gal at the station on the airport grounds.

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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    2 cents down to $2.67. Paid $2.35 at Sam's. Diesel at $3.29
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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,766
    RUG $1.90
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    A great use of $1.90 per gallon PUG? https://youtu.be/FpC02rkSW6M
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    edited December 2018
    Multiplied by 3, but there you get a lot more for your fuel taxes.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2018
    Let’s see, among higher other car costs app 43% to 200% more in fuel costs? Other than enjoying some sections of the autobahn; where one presumably can go “whatever” speeds, not much beckons me to live in, nor second residence beckons me to live in Germany. Seeing friends &/or client meetings? Oh yes!

    I’ve not seen DATA FOR this for a little while, but the average European driver puts 9,000 miles per year versus the 11,000 to 14,000 miles per year for US drivers.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Better quality roads of virtually every type, some of the best transit in the world (subsidized by those taxes), those alone explain the costs. We pay little, and get little.
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