Report Your Local Gas Prices Here

PF_Flyer

Out here at the Edmunds offices in Santa Monica for the week, and the gas station closest to the office is at $3.60 for RUG, $3.90 for premium

gagrice

ruking1 said:

After 40 to 60 some odd years, it’s coming back to light that the USA has been/remains & will continue to be one of THE biggest OIL producers & refiners in the world. Per gal fuel prices are merely of du jour factors, real, imagined & contrived.

Here is a Bloomberg du jour article. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-15/truckers-asleep-at-the-wheel-as-diesel-price-shock-creeps-closer

You and I have been screaming this for over a decade on Edmund's.

The IEA estimates 3 million barrels a day of high-sulfur bunker fuel is used by the global shipping industry, which handles about 90 percent of the world’s trade.

Won't change my thinking at all. Diesel was $4.05 a gallon the day I bought the Touareg. My average for 49k miles is $3.09 a gallon most bought in California. Worth it to drive a luxury SUV.

berri

The US produces and refines a lot of gasoline, but the new pipelines also allow it to export more than before. Mixed bag for US consumers I guess.

ruking1

berri said:

The US produces and refines a lot of gasoline, but the new pipelines also allow it to export more than before. Mixed bag for US consumers I guess.

I’m not sure what you really mean? USA is greatly strengthened by domestic oil production & greater capacity refining. Oil exportation also helps to balance payments. All it takes for gasoline prices to go down (& massively) are app 1 % to 1.5% OVER consumption (region, season, days, weeks,) . Naturally most want to sell @ higher prices: i.e., close to or UNDER consumption. Additionally, when the per oil barrel cost are both domestic & low, prices can be much lower.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/22/how-the-fracking-revolution-broke-opecs-hold-on-oil-prices/

berri

The Cushing, OK stockpiles will go down, which is what has often kept US oil cheaper than imported sources. On the positive side, the expanded US refinery operations may offset future oil shortages should they occur. One caution; fracking wells don't seem to last as long as conventionally drilled ones.

ruking1

So from the articles I have read, I am no way, shape or form, an oil field expert or industry insider, there is of course ebb & flow. Oil, of course is fungible. This of course makes the inventories less dependent upon one source of supply. All fracked wells have to do is meet reasonable B/E projections or make money, to continue. When one well becomes UNeconomical, it is capped. Indeed, due to a host of reasons, previously capped UNeconomical conventional wells are increasingly brought BACK online, given economies @ reopening.

It should be equally as obvious that increasing refining units/capacity will bring down gas/diesel jet fuel, etc., pricing.

berri

My point is that it is a double edge sword. When Cushing was overflowing with oil storage the US barrel price was noticeably lower than say Brent. With the pipelines encouraging increased refining, we now are a leading exporter of oil. That in effect brings Cushing oil more in line with Brent prices. On the flip side, if the Middle East cuts output, those increased US refineries can reduce the impact if the oil is directed then to the US markets. But if you look deeper into it, right now the US is exporting more than before. So Export v Domestic is also part of the supply and demand calculation impacting US prices, not just US well output.

ruking1

The point was taken from the start. However, during the period (you) mentioned, oil was ALSO being stored OFFSHORE & from other world wide areas, in oil tanker ships! Fungibilty greatly diminishes ones world wide as well as domestic area’s ability to spike prices. This & the fact that oil is traded in USD$$’s. Life is good.

So over a ten-year period, gasoline is relatively cheap. https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=gasoline&months=120

berri

I think where oil is stored probably reflects a combination of storage availability and costs more than anything. Oil is relatively cheap compared to many liquids and fungibility also reduces (but doesn't eliminate) the effectiveness of boycotts, etc. (but doesn't stop professional futures traders from jacking up trading prices in such situations). But the spread between Cushing and Brent prices was wider several years ago than today reflecting the increase in exports from the US. Cushing had problems with excess oil in storage in its facilities back then which held Cushing prices below most world market prices at the time. US consumers got a bargain back then compared to many consumers elsewhere. Today that problem for Cushing seems pretty much gone and personally I believe the increase in US pipelines leading to more US refining and exports is part of that equation. Yes, pricing in US Dollars can help us, but not always as the dollar can vary in market trading making it abnormally strong or weak in the international currency markets. So I guess on a longer term basis we don't really disagree all that much, but shorter term market aberrations can trump fungibility. At least that's how I see it and like you, I don't deal with it directly either. My comments about fracking output and lifespan really just reflect some thought out there that fracking is limited and may reflect peak oil right now. But fracking also has a positive because its effective B/E point price kind of puts a damper on conventional drillers pricing upside. It is no longer theoretically unlimited. I think oil will be in demand for many years, but strides in other energy including hybrid and electric cars may reduce its power in a decade or two. China is playing heavily in researching how to harness and improve those technologies to reduce oil dependence, so it isn't just the western world pushing it now.

ruking1

The answers are no to sentences 1 & 2. Sentence 3, Unless you have data & links to Cushing & Brent & effect on prices, it’s your opinion without documentation. I have not run across any charting doing that comparison. Skipping to the end, for sure oil will be in great demand. Hybrid/gasoline cars took a decade or more to prove reliability and durability. Prius Highlander hybrid being two examples. Diesel hybrids are way better, but almost totally lacking in the US PVF. Currently capital investment in hybrids and hybrid improvements are dangerous at best. Electric cars despite being over 100 years old will take at least two decades to improve reliability and durability. The problem with the China only scenario is that the rest of the world wants to live better than it’s used to living, so oil will for the foreseeable further be one step in the upward direction of improve living standards.

kyfdx

Back to reporting your local gas prices, please

ruking1

ULSD $3.19, PUG $3.69, RUG $3.14, Las Vegas, NV.

gagrice

Just picked up the Touareg at Findlay North VW Las Vegas. Shell RUG $3.17 ULSD $3.39 If you don't bring back the loaner with the same amount of gas they ding you 5 bucks a gallon. So I put in $10 at home in Pahrump. More than enough for that 2018 Passat. I averaged for the two days 37 MPG according to onboard computer. Far from the ride or handling of the Touareg.

Michaell

Just paid $3/gal for mid grade (87 in Colorado) for the Jetta.

kyfdx

$2.89 for RUG
$2.19 for E85

ruking1

Michaell said:

Just paid $3/gal for mid grade (87 in Colorado) for the Jetta.

What mpg do you get?

At some point, it might be instructive to post each state’s tax burden. Fed fuel tax burden’s seem to be standard across 50 states. Chart graphic https://www.taxadmin.org/assets/docs/Research/Rates/mf.pdf

TMI version https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Statistics/StateMotorFuel-OnePagers-July-18.pdf

So in (your) the example (given $2.06 whsle) $.94 are fed/state fuel taxes, state sales taxes, transportation & that dirty scum word... profit.

So one does NOT get caught UP in the $ crisis du jour, we use app 500 gal ULSD per yr commute @ 36 mpg. (like model uses PUG @ 22 mpg)

Michaell

ruking1 said:

Michaell said:

Just paid $3/gal for mid grade (87 in Colorado) for the Jetta.

What mpg do you get?

At some point, it might be instructive to post each state’s tax burden. Fed fuel tax burden’s seem to be standard across 50 states. Chart graphic https://www.taxadmin.org/assets/docs/Research/Rates/mf.pdf

TMI version https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Statistics/StateMotorFuel-OnePagers-July-18.pdf

So in (your) the example (given $2.06 whsle) $.94 are fed/state fuel taxes, state sales taxes, transportation & that dirty scum word... profit.

I'm averaging about 30MPG over two years and 12,000 miles. Mostly city miles.

ruking1

So I take it you do 6,000 miles per year ? 200 gal per yr? (Like model 2009 Jetta TDI 38-42 mpg)

Michaell

ruking1 said:

So I take it you do 6,000 miles per year ? 200 gal per yr? (Like model 2009 Jetta TDI 38-42 mpg)

Working from home has its advantages

ruking1

Indeed there are many ! But it does turn (me anyway) one car into one of convenience. But then, the only way to own one of those these days is to be able to write it off as a business expense.

For all the brouhaha about how “damaging” oil use is alleged to be, there’s very little headway in “making” people work from ‘home” etc.

kyfdx

It’s big in customer service. A big company my wife worked for closed 10 customer call centers and had over 1000 employees move home. And, that was in 2010-2011.

Michaell

kyfdx said:

It’s big in customer service. A big company my wife worked for closed 10 customer call centers and had over 1000 employees move home. And, that was in 2010-2011.

And, on the other side of the coin, IBM has been forcing employees to co-locate in larger offices or face termination. Just another way to get folks to voluntarily leave.

berri

Then there is merger and acquisition versus consolidation and spinoffs. Just like in the military, every leader has to change something to put their personal stamp on it. Been going on for decades...

ruking1

It’s almost irrefutable that corporations of any ilk face relentless competitive crushing $$’s pressures. Generating new revenues, economies of scale, saving monies are usually at the heart/core of these mergers, acquisitions, consolidations, spinoffs, closures, “voluntary leaving” etc. It’s not likely corporations can put a personal stamp on things like a Pelosi/Schumer $2 M memorial street side bidet/urinal.

It’s not all bad as “packages” are let to leave voluntarily & preclude lawsuits.

Closer to the topic, I see a % greater of gasoline station closures, in addition to decades long gasoline station closures. It would also be interesting to see figures on shopping miles affected by internet shopping, like Amazon. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-19/oil-prices-are-down-nobody-told-the-gas-pumps

Per 2016 NHTSA statistics. https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx, the per year mileage traveled continues to set year over year records. Math indicates average miles per year is between 12,000 and 15,000 miles: per driver/car. Consumption advances, increasing, albeit steady, minus all the usual modifying factors.

berri

I don't get how a Costco in one part of the country gives a big discount on gas compared to nearby local gas stations, while a Costco another part gives very little discount. I guess either way Costco is at least selling Top Tier gasoline.

ruking1

May I suggest some of those (Aug 18, 2018) links that I have posted. They can at least get you started or pointed in the right direction, in answer to your question/s.

Non COSTCO.

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/crude-oil-price-forecast-another-step-lower/

ruking1

I STILL have a set of walnut handled steak knives in a walnut holder.

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/07/25/what-a-gallon-of-gas-cost-the-year-you-were-born/

ruking1

This is a TMI version of why ethanol, & what Gagrice has been saying all along.

...’Ironically, this meant that the ethanol that was meant to be a cleaner gasoline alternative would actually lead to higher emissions from evaporation, and hence to greater smog formation. “...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/08/21/understanding-the-debate-over-ethanol-and-smog/

Needless to say if the E15 becomes the law of the land, emissions counting the emmisions EPA waives will be higher.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

This is a TMI version of why ethanol, & what Gagrice has been saying all along.

...’Ironically, this meant that the ethanol that was meant to be a cleaner gasoline alternative would actually lead to higher emissions from evaporation, and hence to greater smog formation. “...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/08/21/understanding-the-debate-over-ethanol-and-smog/

Needless to say if the E15 becomes the law of the land, emissions counting the emmisions EPA waives will be higher.

The unknown with ethanol laced RUG/PUG played a big role in my swearing off gasoline and only owning diesel vehicles. With the subsidies on ethanol, there is no way to know just how much ethanol is in the gas you buy. Unless you have expensive test equipment. My experience was whatever percentage ethanol content, was the percentage lost in mileage.

ruking1

For folks that disagree, If ethanol is so clean, why is there little to NO support for E100? (100% ethanol) . There is barely any regulatory, market support for the E85. E85 SUV’s are known to get 25% LESS mpg than ethanol/gasoline E10%/RUG-PUG 90%. If I had to guess as soon as E15 is implemented, the price of gasoline will rise.

ruking1

Yet on the other hand, pipes baby pipes! https://finance.yahoo.com/news/west-texas-oil-gushing-pipelines-cant-handle-124216651.html

ruking1

If not, how about Wyoming? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/forget-permian-basin-oil-basin-153400092.html

Michaell

Let's stick to reporting gas prices, shall we?

ruking1

Yes, often times folks are surprised @ what really drive prices. Lack of oil has NEVER been one of them.

fintail

My local Chevron (prices before 15 cent weekend cash discount): RUG 3.56, Mid 3.69, PUG 3.79, Diesel 3.41.

kyfdx

In San Francisco

Shell
3.89 RUG
4.09 PUG
4.09 ULSD

I don’t understand why the RUG/PUG spread is $0.20 here, and $0.60-$0.80 at home

ruking1

$3.49 ULSD after .50 per gal grocery store discount, not including 3 to 5% credit card discount.

Not sure how we manage to post 38 mpg on 2014 MB GLK 250 BT (diesel, 576 miles, 15.1 gal) commute & holiday traffic.

ruking1

Las Vegas, NV

$3.14 ULSD
$3.35 PUG
$2.95 RUG

The 2003 VW Jetta TDI STILL posts 48-52 mpg. I’m glad it’s not on CA spec diesel.

ruking1

Ethanol E10/E15?

https://youtu.be/OFTcmORherM

I’ll keep mine ULSD.

E 85 vehicles (full size SUV’S) are documented to yield way less mpg than RUG/PUG E 10 vehicles.

PF_Flyer

We were stuck at $3.13 forever... finally got a drop to $3.05

PF_Flyer

$2.99

kyfdx

PF_Flyer said:

$2.99

On Saturday at Shell in Cincinnati.

$2.75 for RUG
$3.55 for PUG (!!!)

Mr_Shiftright

Count your blessings. We're paying $4.15.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Count your blessings. We're paying $4.15.

I saw that when I was out there in September ($3.85 RUG), but I can't wrap my head around why the RUG/PUG spread is 20-30 cents there, and 60-80 cents here.

fintail

Yesterday at my local Chevron:

RUG 3.65
Mid 3.78
PUG 3.88
Diesel 3.56

Cash on weekends gives a 15 cents/gallon discount (station doesn't charge extra for plastic).

berri

I read somewhere recently that PA has some of the highest gasoline taxes, so everyone on the west coast may be getting robbed!

ruking1

MILES (aka, gas consumption, per driver& vehicle) have grown rather slowly, yr over yr. (app 11,000 14,000) miles per yr. down from previous acknowledge miles of 12,000 to 15,000 per yr.) https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

berri

Wonder how Iran will impact prices down the road? I'm not sure the Saudi's really have the capacity to offset potential Iranian oil disruptions.

texases

The markets have been dropping in the last week, up to the start of the sanctions, so seems like they think there's enough oil available.

fintail

Been paying ~$2.60 for RUG in Iowa.